#fire hazard silbings

[phoukanamedpookie]

[ID: #atla #fire nation siblings #fire nation royally screwed up family #the parentification is coming from inside #there's also some metatextual support for this in a way #if you consider that azula's 'sin' is not taking care of zuko like katara does sokka #which seems to be a very popular if unstated take]

See, I wasn't trying to put that out in Tumblr, but if the shoe fits...

Galaxy Brain take: Zuko projects his anger at Ursa onto Azula.

When I think about his resentment of her compared to the actual things she did to him that fall within the normal range of bratty little sister behavior, an Ursa-shaped hole popped up.

Then it suddenly made sense. If Zuko relates to Azula more as his surrogate mother than as his sister, his resentment toward her makes more sense.

Look at what Azula does. She comforts him when he doubts himself in "The Crossroads of Destiny." She freely offers him advice when he needs or demands it in "The Headband," "The Avatar and the Fire Lord," and "Nightmares and Daydreams." She seeks him out to take him away from the "depressing" house in "The Beach" and helped him work through his anger at himself too.

From the moment Zuko returned to the Fire Nation, Azula has, in her own words, been looking out for him. Zuko seems to lean on her a lot too, relying on her in ways he doesn't acknowledge and probably doesn't know.

Let me lay out a scenario.

After Ursa left, Zuko still needed a primary caregiver. Even then, Zuko was aware that seeking that from Ozai was a no-go. But who else does he have? It's just him and Azula. Azula, who's so smart and strong and capable and also invested in his well-being.

Yet there's still anger and sadness too big for him to understand and process at the time. He "can't" be mad at Mom for "abandoning" him. His loving mother is "good," and leaving him would be "bad." Azula is "supposed" to take care of him, but Azula fails at being Ursa. So for that, she's "bad," and everything that happens to him is all her fault.

Zuko doesn't relate to Azula the way a big brother does his little sister (see Sokka and Katara for a more typical example). He relates to Azula the way a disappointed child relates to the mother who failed him.

Before anyone gets it twisted, I'm not saying that Zuko deliberately put that expectation on Azula. When Ursa left, he was a child dealing with a situation and feelings too big and complex for him to understand. Putting everything he wanted from Ursa onto Azula is just how he, as a child, would have coped. It's not his fault that he needed his mom. He was a child. It's not Azula's fault that she couldn't be his mom. She was a child herself, and younger one at that.

If there is fault to lay at Zuko's feet, it's continuing to do this after he's old enough to realize that putting that expectation onto his younger sibling is inappropriate, especially when he has a more fitting adult in his life who is willing and able to provide the guidance, nurturing, and affection he needs. But old habits die hard.

It's just tragic all the way around.

[phoenix-king-ozai]

I always imagined Ozai and Iroh had a big age gap and even ignoring Azulon's favoritism it was just difficult for a relationship to be had. Like I imagine Iroh was in his late teens when Ozai showed up so it's really hard to find something in common with someone so far apart from you.

I always hated this recton of the age gap between Ozai and Iroh. Obviously, Iroh is much older than Ozai is in the show. There is roughly a fifteen year age difference between Iroh and Ozai given that Ozai is forty-five years old in the ending of ATLA and then Iroh is sixty years old during the ending of ATLA. The age gap between the two Fire Nation Royal Brothers could play an extremely important role in the relationship between them as well narratively!

Ozai could have been a planned pregnancy. Azulon knows that Sozin’s comet is returning in a couple of decades. He probably wanted a spare heir in case of an accident on the bat regarding Iroh or perhaps his infertility (Iroh had Lu Ten extremely late in life). Fire Lady Ilah probably refused to knowing the high risk involving mid-age pregnancies. Azulon ignore her refusal and forced himself on his wife through marital rape. Ilah despises Azulon after this and dies in childbirth never forgiving him. Azulon in turn despises Ozai being the cause of her death as a scapegoat because deep down he knows his wife died and blood is on his hands alone. Even Crown Prince-General Iroh resented and neglect his infant brother Ozai for their late mother death. Iroh would, later on, see the error of his and their father’s neglect and abuse on Ozai and their cyclical effects on Zuko and Azula but it’s far too late to make an effective change because of Ozai hate and resentment for Iroh for his past actions and him being their father’s favorite child.

[glaucuspacificus]

Zuko: Azula taught Izumi to say “behold” instead of “look”. We’d be in town or something and she’d point to whatever damn thing she saw and go “Dada, behold!” It’s a little embarrassing.

Azula: *laughs in the background*

[ultranos]

Wait I'm assuming that Zuko saw some of Azula's designs at some point, like schematics or even half built toys. Did he never adsume anything? Or did he think his little sister was making weapons in her spare time?

Assuming he remembered it. Or paid enough attention to remember it.

But he assumed Azula was breaking her toys. Maybe that she was trying to put one or two back together (so she wouldn't get in trouble like that would happen). And yeah, if he saw schematics, he'd think Lu Ten had just left them in her room for whatever reason or that she was "designing weapons". (But like how Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes would design weapons. Little kid space gun levels, here.)

Zuko didn't care about what his little sister did in her spare time unless it directly related to him. Meaning, unless she was training firebending right in front of him and thus making him look behind in the material. (He's 11- to 13-years-old at this point. Of course he thinks the world revolves around him at that age. This is less a condemnation of Zuko and more a commentary on teenagers being teenagers.)

[akiizayoi4869]

ooh okay here's something that may or may not be unpopular: in some ways (in SOME ways. not all ways) the reason I want the fire siblings to reconcile is just as much for zuko's character arc as it is for azula's. I think originally before I got really into azula's character & I had just watched the show that's all it was about for me. I think it should be obvious I've changed my tune lol now azula is my fave character, but I still find it unsatisfying that zuko never learned to see himself outside of what he represented compared to his sister. he deserved an arc where he realized that he's his own person & also where he learned to view his sister as human & reconnect with the only family he has left who isn't uh. ozai. obviously in our little corner we all agree azula deserved better but it's been on my mind lately that zuko did too tbh. idk if that's unpopular (well, loving zuko isn't at all unpopular ofc, but maybe the specifics of what I'm saying are. I really don't know lol)

I completely agree with this. That was one of my biggest issues with his redemption arc, aside from him not learning to actually think for himself instead of just hanging onto Iroh's every word. Zuko not coming out of the abusive mindset that Ozai implanted in him, and what Iroh encouraged, was a huge letdown. If we're supposed to see that he's realized that his father was an abusive asshole and he didn't deserve that kind of treatment, then why not have him come to the realization that he doesn't have to measure his self worth based on what his sister can do? Zuko eventually coming to the realization that he is his own person, that Azula is her own person and not just the perfect princess that he's been raised to see her as, would have been a satisfying end to his arc. THAT would have really driven the point home that he did indeed change: he learned to let go of his toxic masculinity issues that he had in regards to Azula, realized that Ozai was wrong with the whole born lucky bullshit, realized that not everything that Iroh says is necessarily true or right, and he shows that he actually cares about his little sister. Of course we couldn't get this because the jolly old war santa/ Jesus Iroh had other ideas and decided to instigate an already toxic sibling rivalry, all because he saw his 14 year old niece as nothing more than an obstacle, a stepping stone that needed to be crushed so that Zuko could realize his true destiny. Instead of, you know, actually seeing her as her own fucking person and not just Ozai 2.0. And this is definitely an unpopular opinion with the vast majority of this fandom since they all seem to think that Zuko's redemption arc was the best one ever.

[glaucuspacificus]

Woobification of Azula

So everyone knows about Zuko’s woobification in the fandom but we don’t really talk about the certain types of Azula redemption fanfics that do the same thing. Sort of.

There’s a certain genre of post-canon Azula-centric fics that make Azula appear weak, helpless and fragile, just like they do to Zuko.

However, instead of also portraying her as a kind and gentle person with lots of support, like with Zuko, they just focus on how broken she is.

I’m sure you know the type. She’s constantly apologising. Zuko is portrayed as the most divine being on the planet and Azula’s new-found purpose is to serve him. She has no ambition or agency in her life. And this is presented as good.

This Azula is also dependent on the woobification of Zuko and how he’s depicted as this divine saviour.

I think that this characterisation is rooted in misogyny, even if it is a subconscious choice. It’s probably a bit of a reach but I think it has some truth: this portrayal of Azula gets rid of her ambition and her agency while having her whole character and arc dependent on a male character which is pretty fishy to me.

I know people have probably already posted these ideas but I’ve been seeing a lot of these particular fics recently and while they’re not the worst depiction of Azula I’ve come across, it has been annoying me lately.

[ultranos]

people always say that azula is a terrible sibling but zuko was just as shitty if not shitter sibling to her

To be fair to both children, it's not like either of them had shining paragons of siblinghood as role models to emulate, considering their only template was Iroh and Ozai.

[ultranos]

Imagine Zuko finding out that Azula kissed Chan. (And Chan is definitely the frat boy type who'd lie and claim he slept with her.) Imagine him simultaneously experiencing all 5 stages of grief.

I have a better idea: post-reconciliation Azula and Zuko going to see the new Ember Island play about the Fire Nation royal family. There's a romantic subplot with Azula and Chan. During one romantic scene, Azula rolls her eyes and mutters, "Please. He wasn't that good a kisser." The light bulb turns on in Zuko's head. "You kissed that guy?" Azula tries to melt into the floor. You know how stubborn and determined Zuko is. Now he has leverage against Azula for the very first time. He will never, ever let it go, much to Azula's eternal mortal embarrassment.

He will not, in fact, let it go. Ever. This is one shining moment where he actually holds the upper hand on his sister.

The romantic subplot in the play was trite and overwrought, and Zuko had thought he'd have to sit through days of Azula grumbling about how of course the playwrights would pair her up with most stereotypical jock guy. The kind of guys who were, in fact, usually terrified of Azula because she could outwit them while half-asleep and drunk. And she'd complain about how unrealistic and inaccurate it was and how dare they even insinuate she'd lower herself to that.

(Zuko could have sworn he heard her in his head.)

And that just because she has standards doesn't mean that they can just...attach her to some guy.

(Key word there being guy. Watching that horrible scene reminded him that he had that particular law on his desk he needed to finish and shove down his council's throats.)

But this? Oh, this is like a gift from the heavens.

"You kissed that guy?" he asks again, utterly failing to keep the delight out of his voice.

"Shut. Up."

He does. Azula eventually relaxes a little from her defensive position. So Zuko leans over the arm of the seat and whispers in her ear. "You do realize I'm telling her."

Azula makes a sound like a dying komodo-rhino.

Sure, he might be dead once they're not in public, but yep, totally worth it.

[ultranos]

Don't tempt me with a good time, now.

Since so much of the fandom is convinced that Azula is Zuko’s older sister, I need an AU where this is true and Zuko is just as throne-obsessed as canon and spends all his time trying to usurp his older sister.

[ultranos]

How has Azula's airbending been going? Like, I bet she'd still be a prodigy, but with no one to teach her, and Lu Ten probably discouraging openly bending (so they don't draw too much attention), does this mean that we'd see sifu!aang and pupil!azula?

Azula’s airbending is a funny thing. Bending for both her and Zuko is dangerous to do in the open, because what little sympathy they can get despite looking obviously Fire Nation can be put at risk when people see firebenders. But Lu Ten knows that to forbid them from bending at all is a fool’s gambit, so he explains the stakes and only teaches at night when they can be far away from anyone else.

Lu Ten can teach Zuko what he knows, but Azula’s airbending becomes much like a reflection of themselves: a patchwork of influences stitched together in a kaliadascope. She adapts the firebending katas she helps her brother with when he needs a partner. An earthbender’s parry. A sandbender’s step. And whatever she can make up herself. And Zuko? Zuko doesn’t want to be left behind, always eager to prove himself (to himself this time, not to a father he barely even remembers), so Zuko adapts and learns and his firebending looks nothing like the angry and powerful moves of his countrymen.

(Zuko figured out that his flames looked better when he laughed, when he made his sister laugh and his cousin smile. He liked that warm feeling and he knows fire is dangerous, but so is a knife. And a knife can be used to cook and to defend, so why can’t fire?) (Little children know things adults sometimes forget.)

When Aang tentatively offers to teach her, Azula would say yes because they’ve never refused lessons from someone willingly offering, but also asks that Aang teach Zuko. Aang doesn’t understand, because he doesn’t know firebending yet, until he sees them practicing. (Fire burns brighter with enough air.)

[ultranos]

I have an idea where in the scenario that was being tossed around earlier of "Zuko exiles Azula", Ursa is there for that. And after failing to get him to not do that, obviously goes with her daughter.

Because that's her child. And she's not about to abandon her when she actually has a choice.

Much to both Zuko and Azula's shock.

Things go very interestingly from there.

Unpopular opinion: Fandom sells Ursa short when talking about potential reconciliation.

I've said before that Ursa's two biggest mistakes with Azula were: 1) not consistently making it abundantly clear that she loves Azula unconditionally, and 2) failing to realize that Azula needed to be protected from Ozai's influence. While she unquestionably dropped the ball there, I don't believe it's impossible or far-fetched for them to reconcile and build a rock-solid mother-daughter bond, and I don't mean in a, "We get along because we rarely interact with each other" kind of way.

We already know how desperate Azula is to be loved and how much she needs someone to guide, nurture, and protect her the way she should've been. Y'know, because she's a child.

Contrary to what I've seen from most of ATLA fandom, I think Ursa is the best person for the job. She's imperfect, but so is Iroh.

Unlike Gene Yang, we don't have to characterize Ursa as a static character who only has Zuko on the brain. Ignoring the amnesia plot of the comics, it's easy to imagine her laying low for a long time and spending the intervening years between her departure from the palace and her return to her children's lives thinking and worrying about her kids and realizing that she should've done more for Azula. I can easily imagine her wanting to do everything in her power to repair her relationship with Azula, not only because Azula needs someone in her life who can be the adult while she gets to be a kid, but because she can see the role she played in Azula having a full blown nervous breakdown at fourteen.

And I can easily imagine that she'd be grateful that Iroh was there for Zuko and pissed that he wrote Azula off as a lost cause.

Of course, because Azula has deep self-loathing and a supermassive black hole of trust issues, she's got her work cut out for her, but I think it would be entertaining and rewarding for the two of them to get to know the real Ursa and the real Azula and discovering how similar the two of them are.

Seriously, when Ursa was six, she kicked Ikem in the stomach and shoved him in the dirt. As a young woman, Ursa had a huge flair for the dramatic and got a kick out of fucking with people. Judging by how she eliminates Azulon to protect Zuko, she goes to great lengths to keep those close to her safe, regardless of the morality of her actions. The fact that she never gets caught says a lot about how cleverly she covered her tracks. Who does that sound like?

TL;DR Ursa and Azula reconciliation rocks.

[glaucuspacificus]

I think that he needs to understand that he’s had an impact on Azula just as she’s had an impact on him. Recognising things like the fact that he told Ozai of all people that Azula lied about him killing the Avatar would have had a negative impact on her might help and maybe apologising for that to get the ball rolling might help.

In that same vein, he needs to recognise that Ozai was abusive to Azula as well (and maybe that Ursa wasn’t perfect) so that she can get the help she needs and it would also bring them closer together in a way as common experiences (no matter how bad) could help them bond.

She was all alone in the palace for 3 years with Ozai which, if Zuko realised in a ‘holy shit imagine having that amount of pressure on you’ way, that could allow him to empathise with her more easily. If he saw that as one of the roots of her behaviour, then there could be more understanding between them since Zuko was shaped by his years at sea which is a contrasting but just as tough environment.

Zuko might also have to be the one to hold out the olive branch first since Azula’s pride really is quite something. Of course he’s under no obligation to repair his relationship with Azula, but if he wanted to, it’s likely that he’d have to be the one to do something first.

What does Zuko have to do to repair his relationship with Azula?

I know I'm opening up a huge can of fandom worms by insinuating that the dysfunction in the sibling bond is not mostly or entirely Azula's fault.

But since these are two imperfect people with a deeply damaged relationship, and people have been very clear about all the things Azula did to Zuko, what do you think needs to happen on Zuko's end?

[akiizayoi4869]

Damn Nos, you really went there.

Galaxy Brain take: Zuko projects his anger at Ursa onto Azula.

When I think about his resentment of her compared to the actual things she did to him that fall within the normal range of bratty little sister behavior, an Ursa-shaped hole popped up.

Then it suddenly made sense. If Zuko relates to Azula more as his surrogate mother than as his sister, his resentment toward her makes more sense.

Look at what Azula does. She comforts him when he doubts himself in "The Crossroads of Destiny." She freely offers him advice when he needs or demands it in "The Headband," "The Avatar and the Fire Lord," and "Nightmares and Daydreams." She seeks him out to take him away from the "depressing" house in "The Beach" and helped him work through his anger at himself too.

From the moment Zuko returned to the Fire Nation, Azula has, in her own words, been looking out for him. Zuko seems to lean on her a lot too, relying on her in ways he doesn't acknowledge and probably doesn't know.

Let me lay out a scenario.

After Ursa left, Zuko still needed a primary caregiver. Even then, Zuko was aware that seeking that from Ozai was a no-go. But who else does he have? It's just him and Azula. Azula, who's so smart and strong and capable and also invested in his well-being.

Yet there's still anger and sadness too big for him to understand and process at the time. He "can't" be mad at Mom for "abandoning" him. His loving mother is "good," and leaving him would be "bad." Azula is "supposed" to take care of him, but Azula fails at being Ursa. So for that, she's "bad," and everything that happens to him is all her fault.

Zuko doesn't relate to Azula the way a big brother does his little sister (see Sokka and Katara for a more typical example). He relates to Azula the way a disappointed child relates to the mother who failed him.

Before anyone gets it twisted, I'm not saying that Zuko deliberately put that expectation on Azula. When Ursa left, he was a child dealing with a situation and feelings too big and complex for him to understand. Putting everything he wanted from Ursa onto Azula is just how he, as a child, would have coped. It's not his fault that he needed his mom. He was a child. It's not Azula's fault that she couldn't be his mom. She was a child herself, and younger one at that.

If there is fault to lay at Zuko's feet, it's continuing to do this after he's old enough to realize that putting that expectation onto his younger sibling is inappropriate, especially when he has a more fitting adult in his life who is willing and able to provide the guidance, nurturing, and affection he needs. But old habits die hard.

It's just tragic all the way around.

[lbibliophile-atla]

#nos answers things#atla#fire hazard silbings#flash fanfiction#smol!zuko: oh hey this is easier when i'm happy than sad#smol!zuko: [casually rediscovers an entirely suppressed theory of firebending]#[casually destroys his family's careful propaganda campaign without noticing]#smol!azula: [casually reinvents an entire field]#lu ten: [drinks so much tea] - ultranos

How has Azula's airbending been going? Like, I bet she'd still be a prodigy, but with no one to teach her, and Lu Ten probably discouraging openly bending (so they don't draw too much attention), does this mean that we'd see sifu!aang and pupil!azula?

Azula’s airbending is a funny thing. Bending for both her and Zuko is dangerous to do in the open, because what little sympathy they can get despite looking obviously Fire Nation can be put at risk when people see firebenders. But Lu Ten knows that to forbid them from bending at all is a fool’s gambit, so he explains the stakes and only teaches at night when they can be far away from anyone else.

Lu Ten can teach Zuko what he knows, but Azula’s airbending becomes much like a reflection of themselves: a patchwork of influences stitched together in a kaliadascope. She adapts the firebending katas she helps her brother with when he needs a partner. An earthbender’s parry. A sandbender’s step. And whatever she can make up herself. And Zuko? Zuko doesn’t want to be left behind, always eager to prove himself (to himself this time, not to a father he barely even remembers), so Zuko adapts and learns and his firebending looks nothing like the angry and powerful moves of his countrymen.

(Zuko figured out that his flames looked better when he laughed, when he made his sister laugh and his cousin smile. He liked that warm feeling and he knows fire is dangerous, but so is a knife. And a knife can be used to cook and to defend, so why can’t fire?) (Little children know things adults sometimes forget.)

When Aang tentatively offers to teach her, Azula would say yes because they’ve never refused lessons from someone willingly offering, but also asks that Aang teach Zuko. Aang doesn’t understand, because he doesn’t know firebending yet, until he sees them practicing. (Fire burns brighter with enough air.)