#every paragraph is like a new piece of lore that makes me collapse and go into a coma
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every time I turn a page in tsc nora kicks me in the stomach and shoots me in the face. when will enough be enough
#every paragraph is like a new piece of lore that makes me collapse and go into a coma#how does nora come up with this crap#matter of fact WHY does nora come up with this#justice for my boys#they can never catch a break#aftg#tsc#all for the game#the sunshine court#jean moreau#nora sakavic#im always gagged by something and then I turn the page and immediately it gets worse like damn#thought we were at rock bottom#but actually that was the tutorial#like have fun in hell I guess
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RE: Feedback for the Redux.
(I wanted to give you really in-depth feedback. Unfortunately, it ended up being way longer than I anticipated. I figured it would be easier to send this as a submission rather than breaking it up into a million smaller asks. I hope that’s all right!)
Note: I put this under a readmore to save space, but I have read it all and thoroughly agree with it. Thank you so much for the feedback, man!
Before I get into the nitty-gritty, I want to briefly talk about my personal relationship with Warriors - not because I want to talk about myself necessarily, but because I want to provide some relevant context. You see, I was first introduced to these books in 2004, about when I was nine years old. You could argue, in some ways, that these books defined a large part of my childhood, and were extremely influential into my teenage years and early adulthood. When I wasn’t fantasizing about colonies of talking feral cats, I was gleefully writing fanfics and roleplaying online. Those were my first tentative forays into writing, and would ultimately set me on the path to refine and hone those skills in the years to come. I was obsessed with the mythology and lore of this world, with the sprawling cast of characters, with the steady publication of new entries into the series.
Now, kids tend to not have the best critical thinking skills. Which is why it took until my late teenage years to realize that my cherished books were really, really not that great. The mythology and lore that I’d praised were starved of any creativity, steeped in the cliches of the fantasy genre, and prone to collapsing under their own weight when subjected to even the smallest amount of scrutiny. The characters that I adored? They were blighted with similar cliches, lacking in any sort of growth or development or depth; sustained only by archetypes and whatever retcons the authors thought would sell the most books, either through hype, drama, or fanservice. Exacerbating all of this was the publisher’s insistence on milking the franchise for whatever profit nostalgia could still yield. They weren’t writing more books because they had new, interesting ideas they wanted to explore - they did it because this series was (and still is) fucking lucrative. As I thought about these things more critically, and became more informed on social issues, it became impossible to unsee the uglier aspects of the franchise - the ableism, the queerbaiting and lack of representation, the depiction of minors and adults (Dustpelt and Ferncloud, Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf) having romantic or sexual relationships, the blind nationalism and eugenics/persecution of minorities (non-Clanborn cats) and characters of mixed descent (half-Clan cats). People far more informed and far more eloquent than myself have discussed those issues in-depth elsewhere, but suffice to say, I was understandably upset by these things. No amount of nostalgia could blind me to those flaws.
And yet, for some reason, I never really stopped loving Warriors. Or put more accurately - I never stopped loving the potential of Warriors. That was the thing that I kept coming back to. The wasted potential of a series depicting the lives of feral cats, and their brutal struggle to survive in the wilderness, all the while deeply immersed in their own complex societies and cultures. It became painfully clear to me that the thing I loved about Warriors was the sandbox nature of the franchise, and all the ways fans were able to explore that untapped potential. With that realization now achieved, Warriors slipped into the back of my mind, accruing cobwebs as the years passed. Occasionally those dormant thoughts stirred whenever I saw a piece of fanart on my dashboard, or I passed a new release while browsing the local Barnes & Noble. Sometimes I even entertained the fleeting thought of writing AU fics again. But by and large, Warriors had been retired from my thoughts.
And then, in 2017, I found the Redux.
While writing this segment I had several false starts, in no small part because I didn’t know what to talk about first. It was like someone had gone through my thoughts with a steel-toothed comb, and took every disappointment, every what if, and turned it into a reality. Holy shit, look at this blog! Look at the meta commentary! Look at all of the worldbuilding! I could clearly see just how much passion and attention to detail was put into developing the plot and the characters. How many hundreds of hours went into correcting the broken genetics of the canon characters. Suddenly, the Clans had culture - real, living, breathing culture! There was a pantheon of deities and demigods. A deliberate intention behind the naming tradition beyond slapping two words together because they sounded pretty or made for a trite pun. This. This was the story Warriors should have been. This lone blog managed to conceive an original lore for the Clans, while further developing the canon plots beyond their base elements. What three authors failed to do, one person achieved on their own.
You made forgettable characters interesting. And you made interesting characters unforgettable.
I lived for every scrap of content you created - the asks, the deconstructions, the amendment posts, the art, even the fucking shitposts (because they were just genuinely wholesome and funny). The Redux wasn’t just a source of entertainment, either - it introduced me to the idea of writing an AU that was sustained by meta-analysis, and grounded in critical reception of the series’ flaws (both technical and social). Your work eventually inspired me to create my own Redux-style worldbuilding/AU blog for a series that has similar issues to canon Warriors.
The Redux deserves all the praise it gets, and you should be extremely proud of what you’ve accomplished. Even if the Third Arc wasn’t finished or the Fourth started, it was still a helluva ride, one that I’m so glad I got to participate in.
But, of course, you asked for feedback, so I can’t spend the entirety of this post throwing roses at your feet. So, onto the constructive feedback.
I think a lot of my thoughts are going to echo what other people have previously said, but for me, the biggest setbacks in the Redux were the following:
[1] Pacing. This is going to sound weird, but this isn’t a criticism of the Redux’s length. Rather, it’s more about how that time was spent. While I really like how you adjusted aspects of the Redux’s plot in order to still tangentially align with the books’, it sometimes felt like the chapters were there just to connect points A and B. I knew this was a retelling of the original series, so I already had a vague idea of what the general storybeats would be. What appealed to me was how the story would get to those points. Let me give you an example: in Arc 1, we’re told in chapter 10 that Murkpelt is roaming the territories, and poses a threat to the Clans. Immediately in chapter 11 we’re taken to the scene where Firepaw finds her while escorting Spottedleaf. We’re told about ThunderClan’s efforts to track her prior, and about the looming tension in the wake of this invisible threat. But that’s the thing - we’re told that by the narration in just a paragraph or two. We’re not shown what that looks like. The setup is supposed to be everyone being on edge, but Bluestar’s lounging by the stump when the scene begins. It’s a little dissonant, and it has the unfortunate problem of contradicting the narration. It would’ve been so cool to see a chapter or two where Firepaw’s still trying to immerse himself into Clan life, and his questions are met with terse answers or impatience. Undercut his (and the reader’s) learning with other characters being brusque with him, or short-tempered, or something. And then that could lead into Greypaw or Ravenpaw consoling him and explaining why the situation is so serious. Then Firepaw could ask something like, “Have there ever been instances like this before with rogues?” Which could organically lead to a conversation where Greypaw or Ravenpaw bring up relevant lore/worldbuilding. It’s little stuff like that which would’ve helped with immersion and pacing. I think it would have balanced the two out, by providing pseudo-downtime where the audience experiences the world as the characters do. (If that makes sense.) Or, to provide another example: we never get to see Tres Idiots mentoring Snowpaw. In chapters 5 and 6 of Arc 3, we see Raventhroat struggling to develop a signing system he can use with his apprentice; and then, after a few chapters he’s perfectly narrating the Bright-Eyed Crow to Snowpaw. I think that showing us scenes where the two were actually working out the kinks would have done more to develop Raventhroat’s character arc. He went from being a meek, timid apprentice to an eloquent warrior, and him becoming a mentor is supposed to be a definite part of that journey. It would’ve have been so cool to have plot-relevant scenes broken up by smaller ones where we watch Raventhroat gain confidence through each small success he makes with his apprentice. I’m not sure if I’m conveying exactly what I want to say, but I guess the TL;DR would be something like - I would’ve gladly welcomed either more chapters, or longer ones, if it meant we got more scenes like this.
[2] Utilization of the worldbuilding. You mentioned this already in response to another ask, but if you could go back and change anything, it would be incorporating more lore/adhering the Redux to its lore more strongly. Your worldbuilding is perhaps the strongest part of the Redux by far. You gave us a conlang, traditions, folk stories, Clan stereotypes - so much fascinating material - but it feels like its integration was based solely on whether or not it was relevant to the plot at hand. Unless there was a reason why it was brought up, then we’d never get to see a ThunderClan cat freaking out near a ShadowClan seer and refusing to approach them at a Gathering. Or listen to Mistfoot share a poem with Greystripe and Fireheart (after being goaded into it by Silverstream). Or watch as Redtail politely interrupts the elders and asks for their opinion on an important matter. Or listen to the Clan getting together after a loved one dies and share stories about their life. Or watch as Sandpaw/Dustpaw use their age and seniority over Firepaw to terrorize him with stories of Yrrun and Terror. On one hand, I absolutely understand why a lot of lore was relegated exclusively to the Amendment section - it’s important to strike a balance between what’s interesting versus what’s relevant. You don’t wanna just throw worldbuilding trivia at the audience apropos of nothing. On the other hand, I really wish I’d seen a much larger integration of your worldbuilding into the story, because it’s so fascinating and so god damn good.
[3] Utilization of the characters. One of the things you tweaked, that I absolutely loved, was choosing to introduce Silverpaw in Arc 1 at a Gathering. Not only does it create a realistic basis for her friendship with Tres Idiots, but it fixes the canon’s issue of her saving Greystripe out of nowhere and then developing a relationship on that alone. That was fucking great! Same thing with Rainpath - it was so awesome for Fireheart to get a friend in another Clan (ShadowClan, of all Clans). It broke the mold, and their interactions were just delightful. But outside of those examples, sometimes it kinda felt like the side characters didn’t really exist? I remember an old piece of writing advice, but I can’t recall who it’s attributed to: “Treat your side characters like they think they’re the main characters.” Because they absolutely are. I might be some passing stranger in another person’s life, barely a blip on their radar, but I have my own vibrant story. Everyone does. In the Redux, it sometimes felt like minor or side characters weren’t living their own lives outside of their interactions with Fireheart and his friends. Mousefur’s the most fluent speaker of Fang in ThunderClan? Cool. How did she learn that skill? Who taught her? Does she have a friend in WindClan who’s been teaching her new words at Gatherings, or whenever they happen to cross paths while on border patrols near Four Trees? Not only is that character trivia interesting, but it could provide foreshadowing/become relevant later on. When the Clans meet to discuss how to deal with the dogs in Arc 3, perhaps someone suggests having their most fluent Fang speakers act as interpreters/diplomats, and try to broker some sort of peace/understanding with the dogs. Things like that. Basically, it would’ve been nice if Fireheart’s life intersected more with the goings-on of his Clanmates, or if his own goals/agenda were sometimes inconvenienced by the goals/agenda of others.
I think those are my major criticisms. More integration of lore, a slower/steadier pace that accommodates showing over telling, and finding ways to have the personal lives of minor characters interact with the story. Maybe adding in some additional subplots that are congruent with the main plots, and occur simultaneously, in order to keep chapters busy. That sort of thing. I hope what I provided wasn’t overwhelming in any way, and ends up being useful for either the Redux or any of your other writing projects.
As an aside, thank you. For creating this humble niche community within an even larger fandom. For asking for feedback from your readers. For being someone who makes mistakes, but eventually endeavors to learn from them, and ultimately, become a better person. I know this sounds kinda sappy, but I really do mean it. <3
(For the record I wrote this at like five in the morning, so if there are any grammatical errors I’ll be kicking myself in the ass for those.)
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My favorite small Overwatch theory is the Jesse is Joel Morricone theory. In brief: it is speculated that Jesse and Joel, a minor character who works as a writer, are the same person.
This theory stems from the positive view Morricone takes of vigilantism, his defense of Jesse’s vigilantism, and his self-description as a “white hat wearer” and “pundit for hire” and from quotes about Jesse’s name on Hollywood and his identity in spawn interaction with Sombra.
Meet the Press
Morricone is a very minor character in the lore, a journalist who wrote an opinion column about rising vigilantism: “The New Peacekeepers: Vigilante Justice — Vital in a Post-Overwatch World?” The first paragraph, except for the last phrase, of the column was tweeted by @PlayOverwatch in March 2015, prior to the closed beta period, as part of introducing the world, the lore, and the characters. This column helped introduce Jesse, and it’s the only piece of lore that mentions Morricone. The image in the tweet also appears in the Overwatch Visual Source Book in Jesse’s section, with the first paragraph complete. It’s the version shown below for that reason, despite being of lower quality:
The New Peacekeepers Vigilante Justice — Vital in a Post-Overwatch World?
By Joel Morricone // Guest Blogger, Coffee Drinker, White Hat Wearer, Pundit For Hire
[Photo of a flaming Rikimaru Ramen Shop van in a cordoned off street in Hanamura] Street still in shambles following noodle joint shootout—who’s keeping us safe?
COLUMN—The scent of gunsmoke mingled with the aroma of gyōza following yesterday’s thwarted ramen shop robbery attempt. And while the mainstream media focused on the anachronistic fashion sense of the stranger who saved the day, I want to know whether he’s the self-appointed sheriff of the corner store, too. We’re told we live in an era of peace, but crime is running rampant, and the authorities don’t seem to care. If folks like him want to protect us, maybe we should just let ‘em round up a posse and ride.
Tangent, I want to point out the joke in the headline: Peacekeeper is the name of Jesse’s revolver. If Jesse is Joel, that’s very cheeky of him to do.
Joel is thought to be Jesse for several reasons, one of which is the opinion taken in this column: a support of vigilantism to make up for slack law enforcement in recent years and maintain order, peace, and justice. The article is also written in a diction very similar to McCree’s.
(As a sidebar, although it’s often joked that, if this theory holds true, Jesse writes so positively about himself, really, the structure suggests that it isn’t an article about himself, it’s just he’s using a recent incident involving himself as a way into the topic, a common rhetorical device—and he actually isn’t that glowing about himself, and he even makes a small dig at how he dresses in line with the popular comment.)
It’s worth mentioning that Jesse seems to keep tabs on how the media portrays him and how the public sees him, or at least keeps tabs on why he’s wanted, based on his comments in the “Train Hopper” comic.
Top panel. “This ain’t got nothing to do with me. If I show my face, guess who gets the blame? Again.”
Bottom panel. Jesse is watching news coverage of the attempted robbery. “[Train staff:] We arrive at Houston in three minutes. What do you want us to say to the police? I think they’re blaming you for this. They mean to arrest you.” “[Television:] The fugitive is wanted for murder, theft...” “[Jesse:] Yeah, I figured.”
Joel’s self description also tends to evoke Jesse, especially in “white hat wearer” and “pundit for hire”. A white hat is an old filmmaking convention as a symbol to separate the good guys (the white hats) from the bad guys (the black hats), especially seen in Westerns beginning with The Great Train Robbery; Jesse himself has a White Hat skin referencing this convention. “Pundit for hire” echoes Jesse’s description as a “gunslinger for hire” in his official bio.
The Man With No Name
To get two minor tidbits out of the way: Joel Morricone’s name references Westerns. He shares a name with Ennio Morricone, a film composer who notably scored every Sergio Leone film since A Fistful of Dollars, which includes The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, which Jesse makes liberal reference to both in design and in quotes. In addition to sharing references to Westerns, Joel and Jesse also share the same initials.
On more weighty points, Jesse was infamously difficult to name during development. Developers created two lists of names—first and last—and nothing really stuck until the name of one of the designers was floated (Wired: Every Overwatch Hero Explained By Blizzard’s Michael Chu). Before they finally settled on that name, he was known as “Joel” in development (Reddit: Gunslinger Joel, lampshaded by Kaplan at PAX East 2015). Within this theory, it is believed that this development history led to the names having been reshuffled to become one of Jesse’s aliases.
Two quotes in-game reference Jesse’s name. On Hollywood, Hal-Fred Glitchbot, the passenger in the payload, comments, “What, Jesse McCree? That is a terrible name for a cowboy.” It’s felt to be a reference to the real-world difficulty of naming Jesse and the struggle of going through lists of terrible names in the search for a perfect name for a cowboy. Within the theory, it’s felt to be an indication that something is off about who Jesse says he is.
Similarly, Sombra and Jesse have a spawn interaction surrounding Jesse’s name:
Sombra: Pleasure working with you McCree... if that is your real name. McCree: Don't know what you heard, but my name's not Joel. Best remember that.
Just like the first, it’s also felt to reference to the real-world struggle of finding a name for him. Lore-wise, it’s part of a series of elements in which Sombra is investigating Jesse. He appears in images alongside Ana and Jack in her room on the Castillo map:
Computer screen showing Jesse and Ana, connected through an Overwatch symbol. The screen also shows the eye symbol Sombra uses to represent the large global conspiracy and “ESCANEAR...”, indicating in Spanish that she is scanning for something.
Documents lying on the floor, including a photo of Jesse, a circled photo of young Jack, and papers about Lumerico.
This exchange is also similar to one she has with Genji, her statement even employs the same structure:
Sombra: You wouldn't believe what I learned about you... Sparrow. Genji: I'm at peace with who I was. Your threat does not concern me.
Sombra is investigating Jesse, in the way that she’s investigating other key characters, and given her skill, she is in great position to find out all sorts of things about him. His defensiveness and hasty denial of an identity that was not mentioned is possibly an indication that there is merit to her suggestion that his real name isn’t what he says it is.
Why do it?
To get speculative about it, why? There isn’t much in the way to explain why Jesse would have two identities or why he’d stop laying low as Joel Morricone.
We don’t know, well, anything about what Jesse is doing in the present, besides hunting bounties, hopping on trains to Houston, drinking in Mexican bars on Christmas, letting Echo out of her box. It isn’t known what he did in the years after he left Blackwatch and went off the grid, no information on how he supported himself or kept busy in those years. After Overwatch’s Golden Age, after Rialto, after the Swiss HQ explosion, it’s possible that McCree is too publicized to drop off the map. (Maybe even too much a target for Talon?) In contrast, who cares about a particularly opinionated local journalist? Who would expect Jesse McCree, gunslinger and black ops agent, to turn to a career as a pundit and start writing a law and crime opinion column?
Why resurface then when he has things well set up as Joel, if he’s trying to keep a low profile? Joel’s article gives one reason: "We’re told we live in an era of peace, but crime is running rampant, and the authorities don’t seem to care." It’s clearly outlined throughout the lore that when Overwatch collapsed, the world seemed to be at its height in peace; however, that peace quickly collapsed, and it was felt that Overwatch ought to return. As an individual, Jesse is defined by a relentless pursuit of justice, and for decades he’s contextualized his own ongoing journey of redemption as something that is achieved by “righting the injustices of the world” to use a phrase from his bio. If writing did little to stem the rising tides of crime and injustice, he isn’t one to sit by and watch it get worse.
#ETA: This post is updated as I rethink things and as new information comes out.#Jesse McCree#Overwatch#Joel Morricone#Gena plays Overwatch#Is this still a theory people talk about? Is it actually necessary to recap it?#Well. I felt the need to so I have something to link to.#Also bc I really love this theory a lot.
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