#even though it's aziraphale who doesn't understand what the offer means

[wonderingwhyiam]

[GOS2 SPOILERS] About that Kiss...

I was looking at Mr. Gaiman's reply to that one ask about kisses and how he said "if you haven't got it by then you'll never get it". And I was thinking about all the gifsets and imagesets and meta posts unanimously calling the kiss Crowley's confession. But it's not a confession, at least not the confession of love that it's being taken as. (For that, we need a lot of context, but beware because it's a while before I get to the actual kiss.)

First: Aziraphale and Crowley have been in love, if that's what we can call the transcendental connection between two supernatural entities, since basically the start of the show. It's always been canon, they've both known about each other's feelings (think Aziraphale saying that Crowley gets so happy when he can rescue him, think Crowley accompanying his angel through the whole magic show song-and-dance because he knows Aziraphale is doing it for him). They're certainly not under the impression that their affections are unrequited.

Second: Crowley may know that Aziraphale loves him, but he also knows that Aziraphale's understanding of him and of love in general is different from his own. Crowley has understood that neither heaven nor hell are entirely black or white, and that's one of the reasons he wants to stay on Earth (along with many others). But Aziraphale hasn't, and a central theme of many S2 scenes is Crowley trying to show Aziraphale that the 'heavenly' way isn't always right. This leads to an ongoing conflict between them, one which neither of them acknowledge and Aziraphale doesn't even seem to be aware of.

To put this into perspective: think of that one friend, relative, partner, whatever of yours who is in a toxic/abusive situation. Think of your frustration that they just don't understand how bad it is, because they've never known any other way of living. And if you've ever been in the same situation and gotten out, then you know that it takes a lot of mental effort and willpower to realise that you need to get out instead of trying to improve it from within.

Now let's go back to Crowley. He, like the audience, finds it obvious that Metatron is only manipulating Aziraphale back into their control. Aziraphale just seems so naïve for thinking that it'll be better from the inside. Doesn't he see that Crowley and his bookshop and the Earth are where he'll be happy?

But from Aziraphale's point of view, a figure in extreme power who he trusts to be correct has just told him that he can have all three of these and more. Aziraphale has come to see that his coworkers and/or superiors aren't really good (remember the end of S1), but still believes that the side of Heaven is good overall (an example is the grave-digging bit). Textbook forgiveness of your abuser, but let's not get into that. A 'perfect' solution (bringing his partner into Heaven aka the abusive situation with him so that they can 'redeem' it and as an added bonus pull his partner out of a situation which Aziraphale thinks is bad) has just appeared. Why isn't Crowley seeing it?

So finally, third: what is Crowley going to do? he's been trying to get his angel out of this mindset for literal millennia, but Aziraphale still thinks that Heaven is unilaterally good. Aziraphale still tries to deny his love for Earth, despite his every action pointing to the opposite (such as the fact that he literally preserves books for as long as possible, but says 'nothing lasts forever' as if he's okay abandoning it all) and still thinks that Crowley would come to heaven if he could. At this point, Crowley knows that his millennia of love and effort aren't enough. He is starting to feel like they'll never be enough. And we get him putting on his glasses, shutting himself off, making some last-ditch attempts to remind Aziraphale that he's losing all of Crowley's faith and vulnerability towards him by repeatedly choosing Heaven. Not just that, he's losing the magic of humanity as well (no nightingales). Aziraphale says he needs Crowley, so why does he never try to understand him? Why does he always call it "tempting" and never accept that maybe there isn't a single definition of Good?

That kiss isn't a confession; there's nothing to confess. They've both thrown all their cards on the table and none of them match. It is not an "I love you." It is an "I love you, but." I love you, but I can't keep trying and waiting and trying and waiting only for you to choose your abusers every time. I love you, but your constant denial of my good intentions has worn me down. I love you, but I'm tired.

And so Crowley leaves. He'll wait, of course, with his Bentley, but he can't keep taking the first step and then being told he's going "too fast for" Aziraphale. And when Aziraphale once again chooses his own familiar hell in heaven over everything else, what else can Crowley do but accept it?

[queerfables]

Alright GO fans, let's talk Sodom and Gomorrah. This biblical story comes up a few times in Good Omens canon, a kind of offhand mention each time, and the most interesting part to me is the implication that Aziraphale was there.

If you only know the cliff-notes version, you've probably heard it as the story of God condemning homosexuality to the point of wiping out several cities over it. Maybe you've heard this too, but - that's not exactly what happened. Look, I'm an atheist, I have no dog in this race. If I thought it was about smiting people for homosexuality, I'd be happy to call God a wanker and move on. But I've read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (You can too! It's very short!) and I've read other parts of the Bible that reference it, and I think a much more straightforward interpretation is that it's about offering hospitality and protection to strangers. It's also about the consequences of wanton cruelty, and God laying waste to those deemed beyond salvation.

In Good Omens, the book, Aziraphale and Crowley discuss Sodom and Gomorrah this way:

"Come off it. Your lot get ineffable mercy," said Crowley sourly.

"Yes? Did you ever visit Gomorrah?"

"Sure," said the demon. "There was this great little tavern where you could get these terrific fermented date-palm cocktails with nutmeg and crushed lemongrass-"

"I meant afterwards."

"Oh."

According to the book, then, Aziraphale at least saw the city after it was destroyed. Maybe Crowley saw the aftermath too or maybe he just heard about it. They both understand it as horrific.

The show is more direct, and suggests that Aziraphale was there during the actual destruction. Gabriel asks if Aziraphale remembers Sandalphon. Aziraphale does.

"Sodom and Gomorrah. You were doing a lot of smiting and turning people into salt. Hard to forget."

Aziraphale regards Sandalphon warily during the conversation. I believe we're supposed to interpret this scene based on the popular understanding of Sodom and Gomorrah as cities that God wiped out because of the inhabitants' sins. The obvious implication, then, is that Sandalphon is the heavy, the one called in to deal with disobedience. He's trigger-happy, relishes violence, and Aziraphale has seen what he's capable of. From the careful way Aziraphale discusses their prior acquaintance, I think he feels the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a tragedy and believes Heaven's actions were disproportionate and unjust.

I'm confident this is how we're supposed to read the scene. In the context of the story, we're supposed to understand that Aziraphale doesn't approve of the smiting, and that he feels threatened by Gabriel and Sandalphon coming into his bookshop and pressing him about Armageddon. But I'm fascinated by what it would mean if Aziraphale and Sandalphon's history really tracks onto the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Because if Good Omens' version of Sodom and Gomorrah is at all biblically accurate, and if Aziraphale was there... it's kind of mind-blowing, actually, that he still feels so much compassion for the people who died and still thinks Sandalphon was wrong.

I'm going to explain why, but fair warning, it gets ugly. I promise nobody is actually raped, and I think that promise in itself says plenty.

According to the Bible, Sodom and its surrounding cities are accused of being overrun with sin. God sends two angels to Sodom to verify this, intending to destroy everything if they find it to be true. In the world of Good Omens, I think one of these angels must be Aziraphale. The other one is likely Sandalphon, but in the Bible it's God rather than either of the angels who rains down burning sulfur on the cities so it's possible it's someone else, and Sandalphon is only on smiting duty. Without anything else to go on, though, let's assume it's Sandalphon.

So our two angels arrive at Sodom in the evening, and at the gate to the city, they meet Lot. Lot is an immigrant who has made his home in Sodom, and I think the implication is that this is why he's not completely steeped in sin like everyone else. In any case, he immediately offers to put the angels up for the night, and although they'd planned to stay in the square, Lot is really insistent. He is a good host! Also, he knows the city is dangerous. So the angels go to his house and he makes dinner for them, and then before they can go to bed, a mob shows up at the door.

See, the men of Sodom have heard about the strangers staying with Lot. They surround his house and demand he hand them over. The New King James Version puts it this way: And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally." Several other translations say that the men wanted to "have sex with them". But I mean. It's a fucking mob. They've surrounded the house. We all get what this is, right?

So Lot goes out to meet the men, and he says "Don't do this terrible thing." Off to a good start! Then he says, "Tell you what, I have two virgin daughters. Do what you like to them and we'll say no more about it." Oh boy. Dad of the year award, right there. But still, he insists, "The angels are under my roof and my protection."

The men outside Lot's house are pissed. They say, "You're an outsider, who are you to judge us?" They threaten to do worse to him than to the angels. They swarm him and almost break the door down, but the angels pull him back inside.

The angels then strike the mob with blindness to stop them getting into the house. They say to Lot, "Look, you gotta take your family and get out of here. God sent us to see how bad things were and, uh, long story short, we're burning it all to the ground. You get it, right?"

Maybe you know the rest. Lot's son-in-laws don't believe him and won't leave the city. Lot's wife looks back and turns into a pillar of salt. Lot and his daughters take shelter in a small town called Zoar, and from there flee to the mountains. Everything else is destroyed.

It is a tragedy. The plains are leveled down to ash, until there's nothing left that can even grow. Was there really no one innocent in those cities? No children or animals? (You can't kill kids). Still, I think about that awful night under Lot's roof and I don't think I could blame anyone for giving up on all of it.

So what if that's the story? There were two angels in Sodom before it fell. What if it really was Aziraphale and Sandalphon, trapped through the night in a stranger's house, surrounded by men who want to rape them. Whatever their power as angels, that has to be terrifying.

If it was Sandalphon there with Aziraphale that night in Sodom, I have to wonder what he was like. There isn't any kinship or understanding from Aziraphale. Despite knowing the circumstances better than anyone, he still sees Sandalphon as a threat. Given that, I think Sandalphon must have taken a truly disturbing kind of joy in raining down vengeful fire and brimstone, beyond what you might expect from someone who was afraid or angry. Maybe he was never afraid; maybe instead he revelled in the violence building through the night as the reason he needed to tear everything down. Maybe he was afraid in the terrible way that exposes the depths someone will sink to to protect themselves (maybe offering his daughters was never Lot's idea). Or maybe Aziraphale just tried to reach out to him afterwards, to offer understanding and ask for some in return, and Sandalphon shot him down so coldly and viciously that Aziraphale knew immediately this wasn't something he was allowed to have feelings about. Whatever happened that night, it left Aziraphale feeling more of an outsider from Heaven than ever.

But if it happened that way, it happened this way too: Aziraphale survives a night like that, and when he looks out into the breaking dawn, he thinks, these cities don't deserve to burn. He sees the good in a place that's just shown him its absolute worst. I think that says everything about him as a character, actually. Of course he won't give up on Heaven. Of course he'll fight tooth and nail for his home on Earth. Whatever the worst is, there are still things worth saving. There are still, always, people worth protecting.

On that note, before I wrap this up, I want to go back to Lot's words to the men of Sodom, and draw a parallel that makes me feel some kind of way. Because when Lot declares the angels under his protection, what he says is essentially, "Do not do anything to these men, for they have come under the shadow of my roof for protection." And all I can think about, reading these lines, is Aziraphale standing in his bookshop as it's surrounded by hostile demons, and telling the angel under the shadow of his roof, "You came to me. I said I would protect you. And I will."

[unseeliefaerie]

Good omens season 2 spoilers!

I don't usually get meta out of my brain semi-coherently but I'm seeing a lot of people misunderstanding Aziraphale's intentions in those final 15 minutes and I'm here to swing for my boy

I think one thing people might be missing the undercurrent of is the offer to make Crowley an angel again

It's not just an ooh we'd be on the same side, the good guys, and we'd be allowed to be together, though of course that is some of it

Aziraphale thinks he's being offered the chance to grant Crowley, who he knows has been tortured and almost killed by Hell, who risks punishment to disobey Hell's orders when they ask him to be cruel, divine forgiveness

That's kind of a big deal when Falling is the worst thing that can happen to an angel, besides being erased from existence

It's a way to get Crowley out of a job he hates and the persistent threat of torture, give him the freedom to be kind, as Aziraphale really believes he is deep down, underneath the obligations of being a Demon, without worrying about being punished for it

Of course he would want that for Crowley, that's not out of character at all

Aziraphale doesn't even want to go back to Heaven until it's stated that he can take Crowley with him, that Crowley can be an angel again

Crowley can be safe, and free from the trauma/repercussions of Falling, and they can be together forever in a real partnership

Why wouldn't he see it as a perfect solution?

He genuinely doesn't understand why Crowley doesn't want that

He's been given a chance to give Crowley salvation and protection from harm, and it's so shocking and confusing and upsetting that Crowley doesn't want to be saved, such a sting of rejection that he'd choose remaining Fallen on Earth over being an angel again with Aziraphale in Heaven, that in his heartbreak he ends up agreeing to go without Crowley despite Crowley being the only reason he considered it in the first place

Here's where I want to point out that I don't think Aziraphale understands how the Fall actually did change Crowley quite a bit. From Aziraphale's point of view, Crowley as an Angel and Crowley as a Demon are the same person just with different jobs. He's not entirely wrong about that, and given how often he's seen Crowley do the 'right' thing he's got evidence to back it up

But I'm not sure he knows what Crowley was telling Gabriel, that his own memories from before the Fall are hard to access and he did in essence have to start from scratch and build up a whole new sense of self

And besides that, being cast out of Heaven is a horrific abandonment. You don't just get over something like that when they invite you back - and you don't just get over seeing firsthand that they almost destroyed the love of your life without remorse only to turn around and ask him to run the place now (or all the other cruelty you've seen committed on their orders.)

Crowley has learned that kindness is not inherent in Heaven and having once been an angel has nothing to do with what he believes is right, while Aziraphale is still idealistic about good and evil (tbh Aziraphale admitting that Heaven needs to change is already a huge step in the right direction, it just wasn't enough)

From Crowley's pov Aziraphale is choosing an unjust and abusive workplace over the life they already have together, and asking him to change because he's not good enough as he is, even though that's not how Aziraphale means it at all.

I'm sure the Metatron knew that Crowley wouldn't go for it for precisely those reasons, but I don't think he needed to do anything more than make the offer to cause a rift

Tl;dr I vehemently believe Aziraphale wasn't poisoned he's just a well-meaning moron and the true villain here is miscommunication

[edgar-fujioka]

okay so of course i could just write an angry rant at Aziraphale, blame him and say it's all his fault. And of course i'm mad at him like "i forgive you" THE FUCK YOU MEAN I FORGIVE YOU WELL I DON'T FORGIVE *YOU*-

but my point is, it's nobody's fault. As much as i hate it, as easy it would be to blame him, it's not Aziraphale's nor Crowley's fault. The problem is the conflicting priorities, values and motives and well, of course, their communication.

Crowley just wants to be with Aziraphale, he loves him obviously, he even offered him to run away together to Alfa Centauri and when he saw Beelezbub and Gabriel do what he always wanted - he thought that maybe, just maybe, it's now possible for him and Aziraphale as well. He doesn't care about heaven nor hell, he just cares about "their" side - them and only them. He doesn't want to go back to being an angel - he no longer is one for a reason. He doesn't want to go back to hell either. He just wants to be with Aziraphale and that's it. Maybe also keep his Bentley.

While Aziraphale is an idealist. He wants to make a change. He genuinely believes in people being good and archangels being good even though they treat him like trash. He firmly believes he can make heaven a better place, which means he can see it's flaws but he still thinks he can single-handedly fix it. Well, who am I to judge, as an archangel actually maybe he can. We don't know that. But Crowley seems skeptical. And if they kicked out Gabriel just for saying no to a plan... I don't think he has huge chances. But I digress. The point is, he believes it. And it's important to him. He views it as his duty. Sure, there is a place for Crowley in his idealistic version of reality - in heaven, with him, like the old times, everything perfect. But this vision doesn't include how Crowley himself feels about it. And as we established, Crowley doesn't want to go back to heaven.

Actually he kind of does the same thing. He offers Aziraphale running away together, not thinking whether he could do what he wants (making heaven better and performing his duties in general).

So again, they love each other and want each other to be in their lives but also don't really see or understand each other's needs and goals. And there is way too much tension and unsaid emotions between them to sit down and try to talk about it, instead they have to shout at each other and be lost and not understand why the other one doesn't see it the same way. If they had more time, if their feelings for each other weren't being repressed for so long, they could talk it through, take it slower, establish that they love each other and that they're each other's top priority and start building from there. It would at least prevent some miscommunication about each other's priorities, because for us it's painfully obvious but for them, it isn't.

But well, it wasn't the case. So Crowley gives up. He realizes that he proposed Aziraphale a future together, he opened up and was honest about his feelings and he turned him down both of the times. He thinks it's a lost cause, it'll never work out, there is nothing more he can do and he'll be heartbroken and alone forever. So if he never sees Aziraphale again, then he can at least do what he had wanted for millennia. Because sure, it's gonna hurt, but he won't feel the consequences if he'll never see him again. So he kisses Aziraphale. Just to know how it feels, just to remember this moment for eternity, even if every time he remembers it it's gonna hurt like hell itself. Or heaven, for that matter. And the kiss is awful. It's forced, Aziraphale is shocked, hurt, he doesn't know what to do but he doesn't kiss Crowley back. And Crowley kisses him still, to remember what it feels like forever, because it's never gonna happen again. At last he retreats, knowing that whatever reaction he might get, it probably can't be worse already.

And then Aziraphale says "I forgive you". He looks almost betrayed, scared, aching. We don't know if he wanted it. He probably did. But surely not under such circumstances. And the mix of guilt, righteousness, fear, regret and somewhere there the desire to kiss him back and never let go make him so confused and lost that he doesn't know how to react. But in the end the betrayal of trust that a forced kiss is, probably also a destroyed another one of his perfect visions of their first kiss but also the good in his heart that doesn't allow him to be properly mad at Crowley make him say only the simple "I forgive you".

Which for him is probably a positive message. But for Crowley it's acknowledging that he did something wrong. That he had hurt his Angel. And he can't bear the thought. For him it's a point of no return. So he leaves.

Aziraphale stands there, still in shock but he doesn't have the time to process, because Mettatron comes back with his offer. He agrees because really, what else is there to do? At least it will keep his mind busy. That's how he copes. After their little argument back in the 19th century I believe, he was learning how to dance with a bunch of kind gentlemen that made him forget. At least for a moment. How did Crowley deal with it? We don't know. Probably not the best. We've seen how he reacted when he thought Aziraphale was dead, in the burning bookshop. It didn't go well. And I doubt it will this time. To sum it up, it's terrible. It's awful. I hate it. So Neil... We better have a season three full of fluff. But honestly, I don't know how they could possibly fix this. If you're reading this far, congratulations and thank you, I'll go back to crying now.

[bowlingforgerbils]

Good Omens Season 2 Thoughts (spoilers!)

I just need to blab about it for a hot minute and then I can go on with my life.

Things I loved about Season 2:

Investigative Journalist Aziraphale is the most adorable detective boy who ever existed. Here he comes with his little hat, ready to crack the case!

2. Magician Aziraphale!!! The whole trusting Crowley to shoot at him without a miracle! Crowley's suit!!!

3. Nina, the owner of the braincell this season.

4. Muriel, the sweetest cinnamon roll angel, I will protect her at all costs.

5. Gabriel's redemption arc. I was not an ineffable bureaucracy shipper before, but this sold me on it. I hope he and Beezlebub come back in Season 3. They really owe Aziraphale one.

6. The fact that it was made explicitly clear that (a) Nazis go to Hell and (b) they get tormented for eternity.

7. The set design, the different shop owners, just the general vibe of the street was very visually appealing.

8. Honestly, as emotionally devastating as the ending was, it made perfect sense to me for Aziraphale to take Metatron's offer. Metatron is saying all the things that Aziraphale wants to hear and making promises that everything will be better this time around. Aziraphale wants to badly to do good, plus he remembers that Crowley was happy as an angel, so it's a win-win! He doesn't understand why it hurts so much for Crowley to not be accepted for who he is. And the worst part is, I don't think Aziraphale looks down on him as a demon, necessarily, he just sees it as a way they can be together and happy. It's unintentionally very dismissive of everything Crowley has gone through to be the person he is now.

9. Metatron is SUCH a good villain, omg. He knew just what to say to split up Aziraphale and Crowley, damn. His kind but firm old boss man persona isn't fooling me, though. I'm onto you, dude.

Things I was not so keen on:

The Nazi zombies, but that's because I really really really don't like zombies, even if they are used for comedic effect. Why did Aziraphale just let them wander off like that, wtf?

2. Maggie. She didn't feel as fleshed out a character as Nina. It was like she was just there as a plot device.

3. I liked Shax's vibe at first, but she kinda fell flat for me by the end. She didn't quite hit that perfect balance of mean and stupid that Hastur did. It made me miss Hastur. :(

4. Aziraphale's weird smile at the end there. Maybe he thinks it's the face that he needs to present to Heaven? I dunno, it was weird and unsettling. (There were some other acting choices that I was not super excited about, but that's more to do with my own headcanons so I won't bother with them here.)

5. The fact that it ended on a CLIFFHANGER. Very rude!

I will feel better when I know for sure that we are getting a Season 3.

[lin11a]

Aziraphale can feel the love someone has toward other ones (Gabriel/Bee) and places (Paintball field). As you said, he never talked about any love he feels from Crowley before. Maybe he's just used to it ? Maybe there is really nothing to feel because he can't ?

But I don't think Aziraphale didn't have any clue or thought about Crowley's love for him, for some reasons that we can see. I just think this is all about "to get the best scenario as possible", but the best scenario for Aziraphale is different from the best one for Crowley.

...

Crowley can't feel love from others, but he is able to love things (Queen's music, last centuries, Bentley, plants without flaws, driving through a wall of fire, driving too fast, imagination & creativity) and living beings (AZIRAPHALE IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED and some humans at lower intensity). I think Aziraphale knows he's able to love, even if Crowley is bad at talking and saying what/who he likes/loves, and the angel knows it either. This is why asking him directly is the best thing to do when Aziraphale doesn't understand.

Did he felt Crowley likes the bookshop ? Or did he draw the conclusion he likes the shop by the time he spends inside and the way he takes off his glasses there ? Both lead to the idea that Crowley can love places and things and Aziraphale knows it, so no problem for that.

What about loving human people ?

We can say that Crowley (at least) appreciates people or has empathy. He has no problem to use behaviour and words for some humans to show it :

Under this joke, Crowley thinks that Jesus was pretty great for a being of his age and his kind, so he offered him to travel and discover new territories. He was sent by Hell to tempt him, but instead, he did him a favor, not seeing anything wrong about showing him parts of the world.

Jesus isn't the only human Crowley feels this way about : he helps Job and his wife to keep their children (and actually seems to like Jemimah who's cute, clever and creative), he helps Elspeth by giving her Aziraphale's money, asks in vain God why is the point in testing human to destruction with a sad face in Season 1, saves humans at the reunion in the bookshop in season 2, etc.

He shouldn't get too attached to humans, he says... Well : it seems that he's doing the opposite.

What about loving Aziraphale romantically ?

Well...the Agreement.

The Agreement started some time before the Shakespear flashback. But when exactly ? We know that in the flashback of The Knights of the Round Table that Aziraphale didn't agree with the idea, so we know before the Knights, the Agreement didn't exist.

Though, Crowley knew Aziraphale LOOOOOOOONG before this moment, and went by himself to see Aziraphale several times without any reason to do so, even if demons and angels are supposed to hate each other.

At The Beggining, after Adam and Eve left the Garden, Crawley chats with Aziraphale. He was the reason why Eve ate the fruit, but just as he didn't see any problem about his task with Jesus, here Crawley doesn't understand why telling her to take a bite was a Bad thing to do, and even suppose that might have been the Right thing to do, according to the Ineffable Plan.

We know big yellow eyes mean stress for Crowley : after humans left, he understands that maybe his action was a Good think to do, so it can bring suffering from Hell for him. And what does he do when he is worried about that ? Going to Aziraphale and talk.

So without any Agreement, he went to see an angel, an ennemy he's supposed to hate, so he might have an explanation about God's Plan, according to feel less stressed. Why seeking relief from someone on the opposite side ?

There's also another thing we can notice here :

Crowley remember that Aziraphale had a flaming sword. A lot of people would say "nothing weird : a flamming sword is unforgettable", but a War between angels and demons should have a lot of weird weapons and special effects. Moreover, we're talking about Crowley here : how could Crawley remember that during the battle ? He can barely remember people names/face/existence, even if they were side by side at important moments !

He says he meets a lot of people, who are offended to be forgotten by him, while all those people remember small little details about their work together.

Aziraphale seems to be the only one to have a big place in Crowley's memory since The Beggining, with small little details this snake didn't forget. Several other moments happen like this one :

During Noah's arc, he rushes towards Aziraphale, naming him correctly without hesitation, and openly ask how's he going since the flaming sword giving problem. Too much details from him, after a little talk that happened in the Garden, on my opinion.

On Aziraphale's side, the angel might have notice at least that Crowley do not hesitate to check on him (while something bigger is happening next to them), talking about life and God's Plan, and most of all, Crowley REMEMBERS the little details about the angel in their dialogues, even if it's not really important.

We know that Hell is violent when it goes to punish demons, and also that Heaven is always cold and monitoring every moves, putting a lot of pression on angels, or just treating the others as frostily as possible. Aziraphale has the chance to get someone to talk to, and he loves that. Does Crowley love that as much ? Of course ! Why would he talk to Aziraphale for this long if it was not the case ? The angel should be aware of that, but they barely use the word "friend" to talk about each other...

Then, the Agreement !

It was this Agreement that allowed them to increase the number of their meetings and to bond for life. It is not a simple bond : there is nothing temporary about it, it is constantly present, and it allows each one to help the other in the event that something goes wrong, forever, as long as everything is okay. Wait-

HOW CAN'T AZIRAPHALE SEE THE PARALLEL WITH A WEDDING HERE ? ISN'T HE A BIG FAN OF PLAYS AND NOVELS WITH ROMANCE IN THE PLOT ? ROMEO AND JULIET BY WILLIAM SHAKES-FREAKIN-PEAR, AZIRAPHALE !

Well, let's say that he's just blind, or maybe their meetings was not so often to help him to connect the points.

Let's also admit that he doesn't notice how much informations Crowley remembers about Aziraphale's tastes in everything. Why would he gather so much informations about him ?

Even without that, they have a lot of moments like those :

Suggesting leaving then going both on a star Crowley made...several times...and giving away this opportunity to Gab and Bee who just went there, instead of Azi and Crowley. Sadness is here.

You had your chance, Azira-fail...now it's too late.

The Final 15 - Aziraphale’s Perspective

I see a lot of empathy for Crowley’s experience during the final 15 minutes of season 2 and it makes sense that we feel deeply for him. What he is experiencing is very human - acknowledging the depth of his own feelings, plucking up the courage to say something, having it come out all wrong, feeling utterly rejected, and then walking away in a mix of pain and anger. Who among us hasn’t been there?

But Aziraphale is experiencing something more complicated, something fewer of us have analogs for. Aziraphale has internally acknowledged his feelings for Crowley for some period of time, probably at least since 1941. Michael Sheen confirms this mental state in a NYCC 2018 interview:

“I decided early on that Aziraphale just loves Crowley. And that’s difficult for him because they are on opposite sides and he doesn’t agree with him on stuff. But it does really help as an actor to go, ‘My objective in this scene is to not show you how much I love you and just gaze longingly at you.’”

Unlike Crowley, Aziraphale’s struggle isn’t acknowledging his feelings. His struggle appears to be two-fold: 1) believing that Crowley could ever love him back and 2) even if Crowley did love him, believing a future for the two of them together could exist within the restrictions of his larger world view.

Can Crowley love?

Angels are, traditionally, beings of love. We see Aziraphale embody this time and again, showing kindness and support to almost everyone he meets, including the amnesiac Gabriel who has treated him abominably in the past. He is attuned to love, remarking on how the area around Tadfield “feels loved” twice in Season 1. As for how Aziraphale personally understands and expresses love, he shows his love to others through verbal affirmation and, to a lesser extent, physical touch. There are many examples of Aziraphale expressing his love for Crowley through positive verbal affirmation, typically by praising him for instances where he has been kind, nice, or good. And on the rare occasions when Aziraphale receives verbal praise, he absolutely interprets it as an expression of love, blossoming with happiness.

But from Aziraphale’s perspective, it may be unclear if Crowley can feel love in the same way. Can demons love? Did he lose that capability when he fell? Crowley can’t feel the aura of love in Tadfield that Aziraphale remarks on, and his reactions to Aziraphale’s praise are always to shrug it off, tell Aziraphale to “shut up,” or in the most extreme case to physically slam him against a wall and get in his face about it. In this last instance he tells Aziraphale, “I’m a demon, I’m not nice. I'm never nice. Nice is a four-letter word.” A four-letter word, like love, that is not in Crowley’s self-defined vocabulary.

If Crowley can feel love, does he love Aziraphale?

Even if Aziraphale believes Crowley is capable of feeling love, he does not always recognize how Crowley expresses it in the moment. Crowley shows his love for Aziraphale through actions, but Aziraphale often misconstrues Crowley’s motivations. In 1793 when Crowley rescues him from the Bastille, Aziraphale initially assumes Crowley is only there because he is responsible for the Reign of Terror. Similarly, in 1941, Aziraphale’s reaction to Crowley’s appearance is to assume he’s just part of the Nazi gang, saying,“I should have known. Of course. These people are working for you!”

Crowley doesn’t help matters in this regard because he is constantly muting and undercutting his signals to Aziraphale. Every time Crowley expresses his love for Aziraphale through actions - rescuing him, saving his books, even taking him to lunch - he does so in a nonchalant, dismissive manner, indicating he ascribes little value or importance to the actions he has performed. “I just didn’t want to see you embarrassed,” he says when he appears in 1941. And when Aziraphale positively glows with happiness about his books being saved, Crowley tells him to “shut up."On top of these confusing signals, Crowley is almost pathologically incapable of expressing his feelings in the verbal love language that Aziraphale can understand. This is heartbreakingly demonstrated in this scene after the bookshop fire:

Crowley can’t even say “I lost you.” Instead he speaks of Aziraphale in the third person while sitting in front of him, saying, “I lost my best friend.” The little hitch on Aziraphale’s face when he hears this is just devastating. Who is Crowley talking about? The last conversation they had before this scene was when Aziraphale called while Hastur was in Crowley’s apartment and Crowley said, “Not a good time - got an old friend here.” Aziraphale is left to wonder - is that who Crowley means when he says "best friend?" Crowley is everything to Aziraphale, but what is he to Crowley?

How Would It Even Work?

Even when Aziraphale does get flashes of the possibility that Crowley may care for him he immediately runs up against his second mental block - there is no world he can imagine where they could be together. When Crowley first suggests running off together in the bandstand scene in S1E3, Aziraphale collapses under the thought: “Friends? We aren’t friends. We are an angel and a demon. We have nothing whatsoever in common. I don’t even like you.”

While he is obviously in denial, Aziraphale is also under tremendous stress in this moment and is desperately trying to hold onto some stability by falling back onto his world view and ideology. In this state he backpedals all the way to “I don’t even like you.” In his understanding of the way the universe is supposed to work, he and Crowley are hereditary enemies and should not even be friends, much less in love. Aziraphale expresses this core belief throughout the series. What kind of existence could they ever have together in reality?

The Final 15

With this as a background, we can better understand what Aziraphale experiences in the final 15 minutes. Even before the Metatron enters the scene, Aziraphale begins to have his fundamental beliefs challenged which puts him off his footing. The revelation that Gabriel and Beelzebub are in love is deeply impactful. When Beelzebub says “I just found something that mattered more to me than choosing sides” and takes Gabriel’s hand, Aziraphale immediately reaches out to make contact with Crowley, a look of incredulity on his face. Here is proof that demons can feel love and that an angel and a demon can carve out a space together. The road may be difficult, but it is not impossible.

Before Aziraphale can digest this revelation the stakes are ratcheted up: Michael threatens to erase Aziraphale from the Book of Life due to his part in hiding Gabriel. The future that Aziraphale has just barely glimpsed is already under siege. It is at this point that The Metatron enters, offering Aziraphale not just survival and protection, but a version of everything he has ever wanted.

If Crowley is reinstated as an angel, Aziraphale will no longer have to wonder whether Crowley is capable of feeling love. And if they are both angels, there will be no conflict inherent in having a life together. In one fell swoop, the Metatron entices Aziraphale with a future where there are no remaining blockers to an eternal, loving existence with Crowley. It will be “like the old times, only even nicer” because they now have millennia of their shared history to build on together. Of course this logic is horribly flawed and does not take into account at all what Crowley wants, but in the moment it must feel like an enormous gift to Aziraphale.

Unfortunately, not only is Crowley’s reaction to this “incredibly good news” not what Aziraphale expects, the conversation quickly takes a baffling turn for him. Crowley shuts down the talk about returning to heaven and attempts to say what he wants to say. Sadly he once again utterly fails to speak in a way that Aziraphale can understand.

The audience knows what Crowley is trying to say because we have the context of his earlier conversation with Maggie and Nina. But Aziraphale lacks that and thus can’t understand where this is coming from or what it means. Rather than expressing his feelings as Beelzebub and Gabriel did, Crowley recites facts: we’ve known each other a long time, we’ve been on this planet a long time, I could always rely on you, you could always rely on me. He can’t even say the word “couple” when he describes them, referring to them more as colleagues with words like “team” and “group.” And the one time he does try to express his feelings and desires he is physically unable to get out the words: “And I would like to spend—.” He then retreats into his old plea to turn away from heaven and hell and run off together. Nowhere in Crowley’s confession does Aziraphale hear “I love you” or even “I want to be with you.” What he hears instead is what he’s heard multiple times before - Crowley wants to abandon both heaven and hell and default to just the two of them. From Aziraphale’s perspective this will not solve anything for them. They will still be an angel and a demon, at some level fundamentally separated by their very natures.

Having failed in his speech, Crowley then does two things in rapid succession that must be excruciatingly painful for Aziraphale. First, he does the opposite of verbal affirmation by calling Aziraphale an idiot. We have seen Aziraphale become physically radiant in the rare instances where Crowley has praised him, so a direct insult like this must feel poisonous. Then Crowley makes a last desperate attempt to communicate through Aziraphale’s other love language - physical touch - by initiating the kiss. But without context or understanding of what is behind it, Aziraphale can initially only experience it as forceful, angry, and shocking. With more time to parse it I think Aziraphale will come to understand Crowley’s meaning, but in the moment it must feel manipulative and borderline cruel.

The Results

In a very compressed time frame, Aziraphale has to move quickly and radically through multiple mental and emotional states. For 6000 years he has believed he and Crowley cannot be together. Suddenly, with the revelation of Gabriel and Beezlebub, that foundational belief is challenged. Before he can work through what that could mean for him and Crowley, the Metatron offers an even cleaner solution - they can be protected from retribution and be on the same side again. When Crowley rejects reinstatement wholesale, it makes Aziraphale feel that he and his loving offer of a life together have been personally rejected. Then that rejection is further confused through the shocking experience of the kiss which Aziraphale does not have adequate context for or time to understand and integrate. In his emotional turmoil, Aziraphale falls back on his default crutch for dealing with sadness and anger - forgiveness - which further cuts him off from Crowley. Taken all together, this is a tumultuous rollercoaster of whiplash emotions that pull at every part of Aziraphale's self- and world-views.

Compared to what Crowley is going through, I think Aziraphale is going to have the tougher road in Season 3. Crowley may still need to better reconcile and integrate his feelings for Aziraphale, but Aziraphale has 6000 years of foundational ideology to challenge and evolve to reach a place where he and Crowley can be together as their authentic selves.

[air--so--sweet]

Keep thinking about this and I won't be surprised if next season Crowley won't go anywhere near the bookshop but I would love if he keeps coming round because he can't stop himself checking on the shop because he knows how much Aziraphale loved it and ends up having a reluctant friendship with Muriel and helps them learn about the world and humans. They brought up Aziraphale a few times but Crowley either got really loud or really quiet when they mentioned him and they don't understand why, but they can tell it was bad, so they stopped.

They have a customer who comes in almost every day and has a smile that makes them want to smile too and eventually Nina tells them that no one reads fast enough to buy a new book every day, he's coming in to see them, he likes them. Nina then has to explain to them what she means because apparently it's not the same as how they like Nina or how they like books but once they understand it they think they might like him too. Romance is one of the things Crowley has never taught them about and they're too afraid to ask him. He's not blind though and neither they nor the customer are particularly subtle. He finds them one evening, after closing, sitting on the floor, surrounded by books and crying because they don't understand.

Some stuff says to play hard to get and other stuff says it shows confidence to make the first move but they don't know what type of move they're meant to make (a hop, a jump, spinning?). They thought reading the classic romance books Maggie always reads might help but now Muriel is even more confused (and slightly worried he has a secret wife in his attic).

'And neither of us is even from Venus or Mars, he's from earth and I'm from heaven!' they bursts out before burying their face in their hands. Crowley sighs, making a mental note to try to explain metaphors to them again, and lowers himself down onto the carpet, next to them. A cover of one one of the books catches his eye and he picks it up. He doesn't say anything for a while just looking down at the book in his hand. They wonder if he's forgotten that you have to open a book to read it and they open their mouth to tell him but then he speaks.

'There's no set of rules to follow. Books and Richard Curtis will try tell you otherwise, but people are too unpredictable for that,' he says, not looking up, still staring at the book. 'The only thing you should do is tell them how you feel. After that do what you like.'

'But you told Aziraphale and he left.' Crowley freezes and there's something happening on his face but it's not something they understand yet (there are so many emotions and some people's faces do different things to other people's and then some people make their face do the opposite to what they're feeling intentionally which they find very confusing) but then his face goes back to how it was before.

'He did, but I also probably should have told him a lot sooner.'

'Then why didn't you?'' He laughs but it sounds strange, like he doesn't actually think what they said is funny but why else would he be laughing? He sets down the book he was holding and stands up. 'Enough about me,' he says, offering her a hand to get up. 'Tell me about this human you're so enamoured with. Dan is it?'

'Yes!' They don't know how Crowley knows who it is but he seems to know everything about humans so they're not surprised. 'He likes books and plants and tea and every Sunday he goes to the theatre. He is something called an accountant.'

'You should go with him,' Crowley says, beginning to pick up the scattered books. Muriel's brow furrows.

'You told me I wasn't allowed to go to other people's work. That humans don't let you just try a job because it sounds fun. And being an accountant doesn't sound very fun anyway.' Crowley laughs again and this time it sounds like when he thinks something is funny. They don't know what the funny thing was though.

'Not to his job, the theatre, go see a play.' Muriel's face lights up.

'Oh I would love to see a play.'

'Well when he comes in tomorrow tell him you'd like to go with him,' he says handing them a neat stack of books to reshelve.

'I will, thank you Crowley!' they say before turning to walk back to the romance section. Crowley bends down to gather the last few books and his eyes fall on the book that caught his eye at the start of their conversation. Pride and Prejudice.

We don't dance.' All he can think to say, surprised by the suggestion. A warm hand in his, tugging him to the dance floor. They don't have time for this but he can't help but notice how happy Angel looks. Does Angel actually like dancing? He makes a mental note to ask him at a time they're not about to be attacked by Hell.

He never did get the chance to ask him. But also in the thousands of years they knew each other, why did he never tell him? Why did he never ask him before? He would have danced if he had known that what he wanted to. But then he also never knew that Angel still had enough faith in heaven to go back there, and yet that was what had happened. He sighs picking up the book and adding it to the pile. He pauses, considering it for a second and then picks the novel up again, sliding it onto his jacket pocket.

(oh my god meant to write a short what if about Crowley spending time with Muriel and it somehow became an entire fan fiction.

Also just in case it's unclear, I thought Muriel might struggle reading emotions because even though the angels have faces, based on the Arch Angels, they seem to show emotion on their faces a lot less than humans do, but also they say to Crowley someone only comes and asks them for something every few hundred years so they haven't spent that much time around other angels either.)

Edit: Somehow missed Muriel is a fellow they/them! Edited to fix the pronouns.

Hey guys I was rewatching the ending of episode six because I’m a masochist and I noticed something I’m surprised no one else has pointed out yet

Right after Crowley leaves and the Metatron comes back the camera cuts to the window and we see Muriel

That window has a perfect view to the center of the bookshop

Look at their expression and the way they’re clutching the book to their chest

Guys

Muriel saw the whole thing

[tonydaddingham]

really, really good points!!! i will however let my absolute bias where aziraphale is concerned rear its ugly head though, in that whilst im 100% in agreement with you about how crowley perceived what aziraphale offered and said, my view is that aziraphale's motivation is a little more deep-seated that in being aligned with heaven/wanting to be part of the hive again.

(shoving under a cut because woo it's about to get lengthy)

i completely agree that aziraphale should be a little more intuitive than he currently displays re: crowley's trauma from the fall. whilst crowley has never told him, and puts on a 6000-year old swagger to paper over the gaping cracks that formed in him because of it, aziraphale is not stupid, and should be able to make an inference. he should know crowley better than that, be able to see beyond the walls crowley put up.

but at the same time, i know i have certainly known people that had certain triggers from deep trauma, even known people for a long time who have had History, and i've inadvertently glossed over what might trigger them or hurt them, because i just didn't know the full facts. these people didn't owe me their history, not at all, but even when ive previously gotten the impression there is a Thing going on, without knowing the full truth i couldnt entirely avoid hurting them by mistake.

and crowley doesn't necessarily owe aziraphale anything, but after all this time? i would have thought he could trust aziraphale with it. maybe thats just speaks to how immeasurably painful and vulnerable it was for crowley - in fact, definitely does! but in the context of the Domestic, aziraphale knows that crowley is a Good Person. he knows crowley was wronged (as far as the narrative has told us and him about why he fell) in the fall, for a minor infraction (if it's even justifiably an infraction in the first place!... and also if it's even true but that's a different story).

so, to my interpretation, the offer of restoration in aziraphale's mind is that it is an abstract (or from god?) apology to crowley, the gesture of righting that wrong and owning the fault, and giving crowley the position to do Good so noone has to ever suffer as he, they together, and others have. crowley is a good person, already halfway there, so why not just take the title and status that would allow him to practice it in absolute? they could do so much Good together.

and besides - wouldn't this mean they could exercise that good in a way that meant they never have to run? never have to escape anywhere in shame, never have to fear anything or anyone, never have to bury themselves and what they feel, because not only is aziraphale planning to return to heaven, but return as Supreme Archangel; noone would ever dare to question him and crowley! i think that's, in aziraphale's mind, ultimate safety and freedom, however naive in the long term.

i don't think, at this point, aziraphale feels guilty or ashamed of being in love with a demon - we'd probably see a lot more of the hesitancy of s1 in his behaviour, i think, if he was; instead, the man is obsessed with him in s2. like, besotted with crowley exactly as he is before the offer of restoration was ever on the table. i think he's fully embraced loving crowley as crowley - neither an angel or a demon - and ill discuss this here*. but this where i consider "nothing lasts forever" to come in - aziraphale saying that he doesn't care if the world disintegrates, as long as he and crowley remain that's all that matters (and again - crowley understandably does hear that at all).

in terms of vulnerability: im going to be a little ignorant and ask where you see crowley be vulnerable in the series other than in ep6? (genuine q, because im happy to be proven wrong!) because to me all i see is crowley hovering in the metaphorical doorway; aziraphale has been very forward (for him) this season in how he declares their togetherness at the very least, exception being his denial to gabriel in ep1 (but im mindful to chalk that up to it being before all the events of s1 where aziraphale let's himself fully fall). this is probably because crowley's not taking up aziraphale's more subtle cues, doesn't notice the glances and particular 'us' phraseology that aziraphale adopts, and thinks aziraphale is still himself a few steps behind, rather than ahead.

but all the conversations re: "you two a couple? you should talk more, are you treating him right?" has all been involving crowley... for once, it's aziraphale that's maybe gone a bit too fast and crowley is scrambling to catch up, and he does in true whiplash-inducing crowley fashion in ep6, but then of course aziraphale had to mete out the death blow of the restoration offer etc etc. crowley does lead that scene in terms of vulnerability, but was it all too late? possibly.

aziraphale learns a lot from the minisode experiences, but i similarly think they regress him/hold him back massively. he learns that things are not always black and white, that who and what he thinks should be good is sometimes bad, and who and what he sees as bad is sometimes good. that's indisputable, it's a massive shift in his mentality and perception of morality. however (and i discussed this at length here - gets a bit philosophical so fair warning for pretentious crap) i think aziraphale still struggles with his fear and love for god, her ineffability, and the exactness of her power. that's the lesson, as concerns angels-heaven-god, that he still has yet to learn and challenge.

ultimately by this point i don't think aziraphale has any issue with differentiating with Good as an institution, and Good as a core, innate trait and belief. aziraphale still believes in good as a concept, and wants to embody it and bring it back fully to heaven as it was originally intended, but i think he's fully cognizant by s2 that angels and heaven are not wholly good in and of themselves.

rot has set in, and it has led to a heaven and angelic host that doesn't align with his beliefs about what Good should be. this to me is what he's saying to crowley; that heaven as a concept was always intended to be good and is good by her design (again, i don't think he's gotten to the final boss battle of fully, wholeheartedly questioning god yet) but the institution itself has become the problem, and that's what you and i could fix together. when aziraphale says "youre (hell, crowley) are the bad guys", i don't think that he means it in a discriminatory manner, marking crowley as lesser than; but that crowley is a demon - a fact - but also a Good Person, so why would he ever want to take their offer? and why therefore would he not take this offer of rejoining heaven?

im not however (despite having spent all this post defending aziraphale) dismissing at all how crowley interprets what aziraphale is saying. it is completely understandable how crowley reads this all, but i think that its easy to accept crowley's interpretation as fact because he is the party probably in the most pain. i totally get that, and his reaction is so valid because of it.

but my last point joins on from this exact thing; i don't think crowley knows aziraphale as well as he likes to think... or rather, he thinks he knows aziraphale but out of excitement for aziraphale being an imperfect angel, someone like him, he somewhat dismisses some of the key principles of aziraphale's character. the whole Good thing ive already waxed lyrical about - but i think he doesn't quite see aziraphale's own trauma for what it truly is.

arguably (and this will sound fairly reductive of him), crowley had mercy in the fall. he was cast out, and whilst that caused unimaginable agony and disconnect, he knew where he stood. aziraphale spent thousands of years being an outsider, looked down on and brushed off as inconsequential as a result of having the same trait as crowley - occupying the in-between. i could imagine that aziraphale therefore has consistently felt that whatever he does, he is not wholly Enough to be loved by heaven, by other angels, or even by god. so he turns to crowley who, regardless of it being borne out of love or friendship, has always seemed to accept him, taught him more on how to live in, and see, the grey, and never made him feel lesser than for being in the in-between; crowley lives there too.

(further read if interested: first section)

so when aziraphale shows to crowley why he wants to rebuild heaven, "I can make a difference", and crowley rejects that, from aziraphale's perspective thats a massive betrayal. he thought that if anyone would get this, if anyone knew him completely, it was crowley.

that aziraphale - standing in front of him and offering all of him - would be enough for crowley to set aside his pain, hatred, and resentment (that aziraphale still doesn't know or understand the full scope of, admittedly, and therefore why he's asking something practically impossible for crowley to do) and put aziraphale first... to want to be with him in whatever form that takes. this, rebuilding heaven, is another chapter in aziraphale's forever, and crowley stopped at the end of the last one and closed the book.

this to me is summed up (and sums up the whole misunderstanding that was the Domestic) in "i don't think you understand what im offering you". aziraphale is of course potentially talking about being restored and rebuilding heaven, and crowley is definitely on that wavelength in his response, but i think aziraphale is also (if not more) literally saying, "this is me, this is who I am, and i would give it all to you, you can have me but you have to accept all of me and why i need to do this".

crowley doesn't hear that (fair - god i wish these boys would just speak in plain words for once), and from aziraphale's perspective, crowley essentially says 'yeah i love you, but not that much. i love the you that would fit in with what i want, i don't love the things about you that doesnt'. which to me, explains this reaction below - aziraphale accepting that crowley maybe doesn't want him as much as he thought he did, or loved a version of him that doesn't exist:

then follows the temptation etc ive already mentioned ✨

thesherrinfordfacility​:

vaguelyxdownwards​:

thesherrinfordfacility​:

regardless of where one falls on the argument of whether aziraphale was or wasnt in the right in this scene, he has just in his own way been rejected; he wants to go to heaven to fulfil a higher, altruistic purpose, but was only ever intending to with crowley by his side. crowley in his own way has just rejected that, for understandable reasons, and could be interpreted as having told aziraphale that he wants him but only if aziraphale denies the part of him that doesn’t fit what crowley wants. (it’s all more nuanced than that, but as a summary).

that’s by the by, but we do know the crowley is able to tempt aziraphale - s2 with food, and s1 with adam/warlock - and aziraphale is at least on some level aware of it. so after they argue, and aziraphale looks away (bearing mind the “no nightingales” line which i take to mean as crowley saying “the damage is done, we’re over”, and last parting shot of “idiot”), crowley then strides over and kisses him.

it might not be right way to see it, but i did see it as its own brand of manipulation, temptation. crowley is evidently so overcome with his own emotion and desperation, and this is his last ditch attempt to get aziraphale to stay. and i think aziraphale realises it; he immediately reacts with ‘what are you doing’ frozen response.

then he succumbs to it, for a split second, because it is ultimately what he wants. succumbs to the temptation in a very unangelic way - awful when you consider what they’ve just argued about. but then aziraphale shakes himself out of it, and pushes crowley away, which says to me that he’s aware that crowley has just used his ultimate weapon; (inadvertently?) manipulated aziraphale’s own feelings for him and used them against him to try and get aziraphale to stay, in so doing he tried to tempt aziraphale into denying that part of who he is. even possibly intimating that crowley doesn’t want aziraphale unless he lets go of this part of who he is.

which is then where the I Forgive You comes in; personally, i read this as aziraphale benevolently forgiving crowley for what he just did, trying to manipulate him the same way everyone else does (ironic given metatron role in this), and also telling crowley in a language that only they understand that he knows what crowley just did, and that it hurt.

NEVER feel encumbered from sharing and interacting with me as long as it’s respectful (which it was)! 

Okay this nterpretation makes the most sense of all that I’ve received, to me at least. I have little to add because I appreciate the nuance and the recognition of both characters’ process of core belief, thought, and action. 

well you might soon regret that when i point out the following that ive noticed and will proceed to inflict maximum level damage; we know that michael sheen is the undisputed god of micro-expressions, right? well let’s cycle through the immediate aftermath of the Domestic once crowley has left:

that last one? thats just abject rage to me. imo he cycled through “oh my god he’s left, he’s actually left, we are never going to come back from this”, to “well that hurts like hell, he just tried to tempt me, he’s in the wrong, and he gets to storm out?”, to “he actually kissed me?”, to “and i liked it?”, to “i nearly succumbed to it, his temptation, he’s a bastard for trying it”, to lastly “im not good enough for him to stay, but i know i have more value than that.”

okay so yeah the above is very subjective but regardless those faces were a Choice. and whilst we know in the next bit of the scene that aziraphale wavers dramatically, he does, like, regain composure and almost again goes through the same inner monologue before he ultimately plasters on the smile again and follows the metatron out… and does it again just before he gets in the lift… and again in the lift. my silly angel is swinging on a pendulum between grovelling at crowley’s feet, and dedicating himself to proving crowley wrong. and given all of the above, i think it’s fair that he chose what he did!✨

I think this is a really solid observation, although I’d like to add a slight counter-consideration that centers on how SHAME motivates both of these characters.  

I give Aziraphale a BIT less of a pass for his choice, given the context of the Job and starving young bodysnatchers memories, and even more for the general fact that Crowley has been so vulnerable (for Crowley) lately with Aziraphale, and given him ample opportunity to know the deeper pain that comes from being cast out of the company of people you care about….for doing little more than asking God (or, more likely, God’s so-called representatives, the Metatron and Archangels) important questions.  Has he told him about this experience outright? No, but I just can’t believe someone as smart and emotionally intuitive as Aziraphale really doesn’t recognize that red button in Crowley at all. 

Aziraphale has to engage in cognitive dissonance to believe that keeping in line with the Heavenly Host is the moral high ground; we see Crowley repeatedly, patiently (if a little smugly), trying to get him to realize that this view is reductive and dangerous, but he can’t and won’t listen, to the extent that he has to minimize the importance of their relationship as it currently stands (“nothing lasts forever”).  And his point of view is understandable and what he wants to do is not that bad, until one acknowledges (as he cannot, in order to be “right”) that Crowley’s whole being pivots around eons of sorrow and rage at being rejected for existing: genuinely as himself. Crowley embraces being a demon in part to defy that shame. But the important point is that, to ask Crowley to become an angel again is tantamount to saying, “My love for you is henceforth conditional. You have to become like me for me to feel morally clean being publicly attached to you.”   To Crowley, then, the person Crowley loves most has effectively re-enacted the trauma of getting cast out of Heaven. 

��Did Aziraphale mean for Crowley to read it this way? No, not consciously at least, but it really, REALLY sucks. And Crowley knows how much Aziraphale wants to fit in with the “good guys,” so he reads more hurt into the whole idea or being reinstated as an angel than is intended. Ironically, it’s how well Crowley knows Aziraphale that escalates their fight.  Meanwhile, Aziraphale puts on blinders and doubles down because if Crowley would just give in and be an angel again, Aziraphale could bury his guilt over falling in love with the “enemy.” He could be both of the selves he wants to be: an exemplary angel, AND Crowley’s lover. 

This may be my OWN personal bias showing, as a university educator who has been dealing with a largely white and underprivileged social demographic, whom I must constantly try to usher in the direction of feeling compassion for queer and BIPOC people and the issues they face (I teach a course on how American media shapes our understanding of American identity, so we deal with a lot of sticky issues in the classroom).  Basically, we do a LOT of work on preconceptions and on assuming your version of events is the universally correct one. 

 I know Aziraphale isn’t a willfully ignorant person in the sense that a human bigot is (he’s far too caring and has too often proven himself willing to admit wrongdoing), but he’s headed that direction, as you say, in part to prove Crowley wrong, because if he can prove Crowley (who knows him best) wrong, that must mean he can assuage his own misplaced shame and guilt about being “tempted” in the past.  

I do, though, think that not only this scene, but their entire arc to date, boils down to the fact that they both love living in limbo between extremes, on earth, but what separates them isn’t really “angel” versus “demon,” it’s “seeks the approval of community” versus “would rather be authentic even if that means solitude.” It’s two very different ways of coping with shame at unbelonging.  And neither is actually superior; both are (irony!) very human impulses. 

And yes, yes, it hurts :’’’’) 

[thedeepmiracleperfection]

i think Aziraphale always did want to go back, but only if he knew he could make changes.

like how when i went no contact with abusive family members, it's not that I wanted to stop talking to them, I had to stop talking to them. for my health and safety. what I wanted was for them to change and for us to have a healthy relationship. but eventually i realized that that just wasn't possible, and until they make those changes, if ever, I have to operate based on the way things are, not how I hope them to be.

I think Aziraphale is going through something similar. Armageddon was the catalyst that finally convinced him that heaven wasn't going to change its ways. he's always wanted the best for heaven, just as he's always wanted the best for earth, but he finally realized after s1 that the way he wanted heaven to be just wasn't going to happen. that doesn't mean his yearning for a healthier relationship with heaven ever went away, he just got more realistic about what kind of relationship he could feasibly have given how things actually are.

when he says he doesn't want to go back to heaven, he's saying he doesn't want to go back to the heaven he knew. when the metatron offers crowley his angel status again, Aziraphale becomes convinced that this means heaven has changed for the better, and that they're actually interested in turning a new leaf. he's too naive and has too much unresolved pain and trauma to see through the lies. the metatron's offer was like an abuser saying "no really! I really have changed this time! I'll never hurt you again, I promise! please come back!" and Aziraphale, being Aziraphale, took the bait.

that's why he still takes the offer even though Crowley doesn't. because in his mind the offer wasn't just "you and Crowley can be together" it was "you and Crowley can be together and heaven can be good." If he walks away from Crowley, he can still make changes that benefit the both of them, and maybe Crowley will come back. If he walks away from heaven now, he'll never get the same opportunity again. He chooses heaven because, despite his naive belief otherwise, on a deeper more subconscious level, Aziraphale understands that heaven is not forgiving. He only gets one chance to make things better (which, if he knew what constituted a healthy relationship, he would recognize as a red flag. healthy relationships involve boundaries, not ultimatums)

Crowley rightfully underatands that the metatron has no real intention of changing. heaven is an abuser, and Crowley has gone no contact for a reason, but Aziraphale will have to learn the hard way that there's a reason we don't let abusers back into our lives no matter how much they claim to have changed.

it also explains why he's so angry at Crowley's refusal. in his mind, they can have everything they've ever wanted and Crowley is just being difficult. why wouldn't they take the offer? heaven is good now! why can't Crowley see that? but it's Aziraphale who doesn't see things for what they really are, and that's difficult.

“I don’t want to go back to Heaven”: Plot hole or not?

Guys. I’m aware that people have likely discussed this already, but I was talking to my sister about the final fifteen and she brought up a very interesting argument.

Aziraphale explicitly states to the Metatron that he doesn’t want to go back to Heaven, right? Right.

But what makes him change his mind is that the Metatron says he can bring Crowley along and make him an angel again. Right? Right.

Ok. Then, Aziraphale goes on to give Crowley the news. Crowley says he’s not going back, they have the whole “we don’t need Hell, we don’t need Heaven” argument and it’s decided: Crowley isn’t coming.

My question is: if Aziraphale didn’t want to go back until the Metatron said Crowley could come too, WHY did he still go? I mean, he didn’t want to go without Crowley, so why did he decide to go after all, knowing his only condition for coming back was discarded? It doesn’t make sense to me.

[usslakevee]

Counterpoint: Good Omens 2 sucked and it is because of the ending, but not the cliffhanger, drama ending. Just the entire finale episode was bad. Like it was just a bad, uninteresting episode. The whole episode felt like nothing other than those last fifteen minutes which felt like fanfiction style romance drama.

None of the characters actions in the finale make sense. The demons and angels finally get what they want with Aziraphale essentially declaring war, only to immediately stand down because Crowley said so. Then they start passionately arguing over punishing the traitors, only to immediately stand down because Aziraphale said so.

The payoff to the Gabriel mystery was absurd. There was no way I was going to guess that was what was happening and it means all three main plots this season were romance based. Like wow thanks so much for the Clue, really helped me solve the mystery.

Okay now we're going to have Nina and Maggie scold Crowley, who has interacted with Nina what 4 times all season (Ordering his 6 shots of espresso, freeing her through the window, the scene where she asks if him and Aziraphale are together, and being around while Aziraphale is doing the Jane Austen bit) And he's interacted with Maggie (Once through a window?). Then based on the very few interactions they have had with him, they are going to tell him facts about his relationship that he doesn't understand, because that's a completely normal priority for the two of them to have at this moment. (Also didn't Nina just panic about opening her shop, why are they back having this conversation, she just sold Metatro-whatever)

And now after a whole season that centered around Aziraphale and Crowley, but also had them barely interact in the modern time (Seriously their interactions take place almost entirely in the past I think there's maybe 30 minutes of modern day interaction in the whole season) they're going to have a big love confession, even though they've been in love for centuries.

And then Metatron offers Aziraphale the job of Supreme Archangel. Why would he even do that? Why would he want Aziraphale in that position? He knows Aziraphale is opposed to the Divine plan.

And Aziraphale just accepts it. Supposedly for Crowley, except Crowley tells him exactly where he can stick it, so it isn't for Crowley.

fine. ok. i'll say it. good omens season 2 sucked and it's not because of the ending. ofmd ended with a cliffhanger too and it fucked severely. good omens season 2 was just plain not fun to watch from start to finish. it was a poorly paced badly written slog. in my opinion

and it HURTS bc i WANTED to be feral about good omens again, I WANTED to have super rabies over this show again and foam at the mouth but instead i just feel empty and disappointed