#even if i died at 60 id take that fucking risk I CANNOT STAND BEING SMALL. I CANT FUCKING STAND IT.

[ynwa4eva]

Spent the entire evening googling what sports short people can play btw

[akiratachimori]

FF8 - A weird romance story, poor character development and hero is dead/dream theories

I am officially done with FF8...after 93 hours of gameplay.  Seriously. This game is not long by any means but getting everything done in the game is so goddamn tedious. And I won’t even mention the 10k enemies killed achievement. Considering you don’t meet big groups of enemies and the fact you usually meet 3 enemies and let’s say one battle takes 30 seconds:

10k / 3 * 30 / 60 / 60 = 27 HOURS

Achievements shouldn’t be about super tedious actions like that. I can get collecting all the cards, especially since as long you get rid of the random rule in all regions, winning the matches is quite easy. And I got my 100 win about the time I was doing the Queen of Card side quests so clearly you don’t need to spend so much time doing it and the matches are vastly more entertaining since you have to think at least a little bit. I have all stats junctions, auto-haste, and Mad Rush so that I don’t have to mash the V button. It was still a very boring process. The only challenge was Omega Weapon given the damage amount and frequency but after spending 3 fucking hours in the final dungeon I was so done I just used Hero (which makes characters invincible) and laughed my ass off maniacally seeing 0 damage popping above my squadmates’ heads. I kinda wish I cast Aura on Selphie and used The End just to troll it even more, lololol. The same problem goes with 100 lvl Chocobo achievement. Walking Boko not that bad since you can automatize it a bit and Chocobo World’s window is tiny so you can easily make some other stuff in the background. ...That being said, considering that if you are really unlucky (like me) and you get the worst possible Chocobo ID, you CANNOT beat the Evil King. Like wtf. I tried it 20 times until I read that there is no way in hell I can win. Still, going all the way to level 100 is really tedious even once you encounter Moogle.

Okay, now that I vented my frustration out, let’s discuss the bits I have mentioned in the title.

The romance

It’s impossible not to speak about the romance in FF8, given how it’s given the spotlight in the last disc and a half. It would be all good and dandy if the romance was well executed.

But it isn’t the case.

Don’t get me wrong, I can enjoy me some romance. Even if I some pairs are NOPT for me, I can still acknowledge that the progression of the mutual attraction made sense. For example, Aerith was clearly made the main romance partner for Cloud in FF7 (although there is a lot of complication with how he processes the world, the fact her bf Zacks died and she can tell it right away thanks to her abilities, or that Cloud adopting Zack’s personality traits and achievements because he is too ashamed of his own, he got serious case of Mako poisoning and so on, and so on), or Locke’s affection towards Celeste was made very clear in FF6.

The main problem with FF8 romance is just the sudden shift in Squall’s attitude towards Rinoa. I wasn’t much of a fan of her or her pushy behaviorism so I picked pretty much all cold options towards her I could. But then she falls into coma and Squall pretty much loses his shit and obsesses over her. It would be fine in case of a normal romance escalation but it looked ridiculous since merely two scenes before Rinoa was literally hanging on the edge on a cliff and Squall just tells Zell to take care of it and had to be told by Qustis to go save her to actually do something.

During the battle of the Gardens Squall had so much responsibility pushed on him by Cid (yeah, let’s make him the head of the whole organization. Oh? He qualified into being a SeeD member only two weeks ago? Even better! Because fuck being a responsible adult and taking care of your students) that he was more worried about the well-being of other students (who had no battle experience of any sorts) and possible destruction of a place he considered home than saving his “beloved” from falling down an being violently blended into tiny pieces.

I am surprised that Rinoa was able to hold up for so long tbh.

At any rate, this “go and help her, I have to take care of all other responsibilities” and “I want to hear her voice again. I want her to call my name again.” is pretty much a 180-degree turn and since the game does not present you with any choices in this situation, those two attitudes towards Rinoa are canon.

But I said that it was two scenes before, so what happened to Rinoa and Squall between those events?

Well, not much. But it’s important to note how out of place the scene I will describe now was.

Imagine you have saved the girl from your squad but you are not done yet. There are still screams and explosions happening in your close proximity and you know that you have to defeat the opposing army to save people who are part of your “home”. You run through the battlefield with your squadmate at your side as you see your other members of your “home” fight off the soldiers to the best of their abilities.

And then you move to another screen where your squadmate stops you to talk about your ring. Your favorite ring you gave to another of your squadmate (Zell), since he asked you and you agreed under the condition that he will fucking return it later. And then Rinoa is all bubbly, merely seconds after she was hanging from a fucking cliff, people are getting injured and are risking death just one screen away, and says that she wanted to ring since she would like to have the same one. And then says “but then people would get a wrong idea.” while she is clearly saying it flirtatiously.

Of course, by this point Squall even muses that his whole squad is obviously trying to get them together. He doesn’t say how he exactly feels about it but it comes across with his usual annoyance when someone is bothering him.

He is still lukewarm towards her at best and after some battles, she falls into a coma for plot reason and Squall goes bonkers. He goes even more insane later considering that allowing Rinoa to be sealed until they deal with Ultimecia would be a safer (and more comfortable for him) choice which is why he initially agrees to it until Quisits scolds him and tells him to help her.

Given Squall’s dismissal of Rinoa’s affection, it seems more that he gave into peer pressure more than anything and partially into his fear of being left alone. The reason why Squall joined SeeD was in order to find his missing sis and this desire was strong enough to remember it, even with the excessive usage of GFs; he had forgotten that he was in the orphanage with his other companions (all, except for Rinoa), that Edea was their matron and his sis’s name but this desire to find the one person he loved the most in the world has stayed with him. It also caused him to have some serious issues with keeping people close in fear of losing them and desire to stand on his own since he was terrified that he will be abandoned and left to his own devices.

Squall does go through some interesting character development, don’t get me wrong. I did enjoy seeing him come to care for his companions and his awkward attempt to be verbally supporting which is clearly not his forte. This awkwardness was actually quite fitting since you cannot change overnight and it felt that it was happening naturally, meaning that the desire to open up and care for other people came straight for Squall rather than from the outside. I enjoyed the worry and care Squall shows towards his squad throughout disc 2 and during the visit to the Trabia’s Garden thoroughly and this could have easily been the complete focus on Squall’s character development since none of it seemed out of character at all.

Of course, things aren’t “bad” just on Squall’s end. Squall’s live long rival called Seifer was Rinoa’s romantic interest. Or at least he seemed to be, it wasn’t explicitly stated, but since they didn’t spend much time together, her way of speaking indicates that he was her crush. So she had to deal with fighting against her possible crush while she was looking for certain character trait in Squall to fit how she viewed Seifer; similarly how Aerith wanted to see Zacks in Cloud (unaware that her secret desire is actually what is going on in the story, lol).

Seifer did have some similarities with Squall but the game made the point of making them clear opposites. Both use the same weapon but have different fighting styles, both have scars on their faces (they gave the scars to each other at the beginning of the story) but their angle is flipped, both become the sorceress’ knights at some point in the story, both have charisma and leadership capabilities (although Squall feels uncomfortable being a leader with his limited experience). At the same time: a. Seifer wears all white while Squall wears all black, b. Seifer has blonde hair and Squall has brown hair, c. Seifer defies authority, Squall follows it, d. Seifer is open with his emotions and has no problem expressing it, Squall keeps to himself and has a hard time showing care or affection, e. their character card values are flipped, f. Seifer is aggressive, Squall is passive unless provoked.

The specific trait that I saw Rinoa trying to influence throughout the game is Squall’s problem with expressing emotions and keeping to himself. The thing is that, in the story, it didn’t seem like her pushiness was really doing anything else that makes Squall close even more while his companions like Zell or Selphie gave him space which made him feel comfortable and slowly change without realizing it. This is why the dynamics between Squall and his squadmates from Edea’s orphanage was really interesting, even if they weren’t interesting characters themselves except for Selphie. Speaking of which...

Character Development

Many characters came across as either very hollow or unpolished for some reason.

I still don’t get why exactly did Seifer help Ultimecia. At first, it seemed to be some kind of mind control but by the time disc 3 rolls in, it’s clear that he is serving her out of his own volition. Why did he side with her? Why was he willing to hurt Rinoa in order to do so? Why was he okay with butchering the Garden he grown up in? Was he aware that if Ultimecia’s plan succeeds, only she would be able to live in the time compressed world? Did he want to break the world?

Ultimecia isn’t a very complicated villain either even with the limited information the game provides. The most we can get about her motives are from the speech she gives in Deling City. She mentions that she is now hailed by the lowlifes that condemned her for generations. It would be interesting to see just what she went through and what made her hate other people so much (like of Sephiroth looking down on people and burning Kalm without more information would make him feel very shallow, but because you learn that he despised Hojo and he pretty much went insane after he realized that he was a product of an experiment, he went through losing two of his close friends, etc.).

Zell is Zell, lol. Hot-dogs, fighting and (a mutual!) crush on the girl from the library. It was cool that he offers to protect Edea while Squall is away so there was that. It’s disappointing that he didn’t talk to his parent about being adopted which I think would be an interesting addition to his character since he joined SeeD because of his grandfather. His accessory making came out of nowhere just to serve as part of the whole “Rinoa: I want to have a ring just like Squall, *heart*.” so let’s not talk about that. It would also be interesting to see him confront Seifer on equal terms given how it turned out he was his lifelong bully.

Irvine is a bit forgettable but he played a vital role in revealing that everyone in their groups is connected (except for Rinoa) and this actually explained well why he wasn’t able to assassinate the sorceress. He was probably made a bit vague on purpose too since when Squall is thinking about his companions when they were younger he muses: “Sorry Irvine, you are just too forgettable.” lol

Quistis is defined the most by being a serious character but it was disappointing that she step aside as soon as Rinoa get into the picture. She was also the one who pushed Squall to be closer with Rinoa the most from the bunch. Not that I ship Quisits x Squall, but she says that her affection was most likely an unaware attempt to fill in a role of Squall's sister but given how obviously she wanted his D and was open about it, I think that it was just a statement to distance herself. She also is good at card. Not better than me tho.

I actually liked Selphie’s character, even though she was a bit too hyper for my taste in many moments but seeing her reaction when the Gardens were threatened by Galbadia’s missiles and interactions with the members of her Garden really added up to her character. She might be an idiot. But she is mine idiot. Lol. Same goes for Laguna. It’s sinful to be so lucky and so stupid and the same time. She also comments close to the end of the game that she is surprised that Squall and Rinoa got together since they are complete opposites and she didn’t believe that her pushy approach would work on Squall but ultimately she is happy for him. I wonder what her personal info says, the computer never got fixed. And I wish I knew what GF she has junctioned when she was younger.

Squall was clearly the most covered character and so long I ignore that horrible romance, I have no complaints. I didn’t expect to like another moody and broody Square Enix protagonist but he touched upon many interesting things in his inner dialogue and I can’t help but sympathize. I also had a wild guess that Squall is Laguna’s son (I had others like when I found Timber Maniacs issue about Laguna’s visit to Esthar, I joked to myself he probably became their king. How right I was. Lol. Also, Esthar was hands down the most interesting city.) so it would be funny to see some interactions between them and Ellone but because the game focused on the romance it was mostly swept under the rug. It’s disappointing that despite Krios’ saying that they should sit down and talk about it once Ultimecia is defeated, the game does not give you an option to do that. T~T

Rinoa. Ughhhh. Her character had potential but because SE decided to focus on romance, so her character was just not well rounded. The most interesting thing about her is that her mother was Squall’s father crush for a long time and since I am a fan of two people not ending up together but their children do, it was a cool concept but it’s left as a very obscure thing since only one NPC’s dialogue mentions her. Thinks that could have been talked about instead of focusing on romance: What exactly caused a rupture between her and her Father? Can their relationship be mended? How does she actually feels about being a revolutionist? How much it’s about genuinely wanting Timber’s independence and not acting to oppose her father? Another thing about her character is that she has a dog named Angelo but they have little to no interaction. Angelo seemed more like a GF than a part of the squad, especially since you have little control over summoning so I saw him fewer times than I have seen Odin. Which is sad. And there is Watts and Zone who are helping her but after they end up on the White Seed Ship you don’t really hear about interactions between the three of them so it makes all of them even less dimensional than they already are.

Squall is Dead theory

My first attempt that finishing the FF8 ended with disc 1 since I couldn’t find the rest in my brother’s big CD collection so when I stumbled on the theory recently, I thought: “well, it was shocking to see him die for me back then. I expected he died to be honest which is why I wanted to play the next disc as soon as possible, lol. I would be interesting to see if it’s true.”

But the theory does not appear plausible to me. The cool thing about the hero is dead theories is that they are some elements introduced that you are familiar with or they make enough sense for you to go with what is happening but at the same time there is this sense that something is wrong. Those might be just short hunches. I didn’t find THAT much weird as long as I ignore Squall’s failed attempt to get back to Edea’s Orphanage during the time compression.

But let’s examine some clues people put together to support this theory.

1. Why Ultimecia wouldn’t kill Squall? And why would she have a newbie interrogated instead of Quistis?

I think that it might be just pure luck + possible Seifer’s intervention. The icicle pierced Squall’s left side of rib cage so he avoided pretty much instant death via heart piercing and given the rivalry with Seifer, he could have asked Ultimecia to keep him since he can torture him later (which he does with obvious eagerness and pleasure). It’s also possible that Ultimecia didn’t find him to be a huge treat and even didn’t know or care how long Squall was a SeeD/didn’t bother with that. It was only important that he was one and that she needed to know what SeeD is in order to protect herself. Killing him would be risking losing additional information, besides even if he had no information, he could always be tortured to make others wag their tongues. We do not know how resourceful Ultimecia is but she took Seifer as her knight soon she laid her eyes on him so it doesn’t seem to be too farfetched. Still, Seifer was running the show in the prison so he picked to torture Squall first to stroke his ego and fulfill his sadistic desires.

2. Why there is no wound after Squall wakes up, why would Ultimecia heal Squall to full health just to interrogate him?

It’s difficult to interrogate someone if they are bleeding to death. She also didn’t have to heal him to full health, just enough to make sure he doesn’t die while he is knocked out for however long he was.

3. Why are Moombas talking? It’s a really strange element to be added, especially how lions are important symbolically to Squall.

It’s probably to give a clue that Squall is Laguna’s son early on in the game. We learn later that Moombas can recognize people by the taste or smell of the blood so since Squall is Laguna’s son, it’s probable that he smells at least a bit like Laguna. As far as symbolism goes, I think that the point is symbolism but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a projection of Squall’s admiration of Griever. It seems to be, again, a clue that Laguna’s little boy is like a lion ;)

4. NORG the master of the Garden. Why he is never talked about again after he is defeated? Also how weird is having a yellow, slimy thing fund SeeD? Edea and Cid’s marriage comes out of nowhere.

I do not understand why this question was brought up. Cid does comment that he approached/was approached by NORG to gather funding to fund SEED and sometime after the battle you met some other Shumi tribe member and tells briefly that NORG was consumed with greed which made him the black sheep of their tribe. It’s pretty much the same thing that Cid says.

As far as the second question goes, not that weird. It’s a FF game after all. It has fat chocobos, tiny minotaur throwing a bigger one, synchronized chocobo dancing, dodgy sex hotels and so on.

5. Too much, “perhaps it’s fate”.

I don’t think it’s too much. After we learn that everyone (except for Rinoa) was in the orphanage their fate as SeeD is to kill sorceress is clear (which has been founded by Edea, another sorceress), Seifer and Squall are fated to fight (they were rivals since childhood with Seifer taunting Squall and him falling for it because he wanted to stand up on his own) and Squall leading the Garden doesn’t make much sense to me since even when Squall meets Edea in the past he doesn’t introduce himself as the head of the Seed but just as a member. And I still think that Cid shouldn’t have thrown everything in his lap just because, but I think that he is just irresponsible which is why he sent out Squall and his squad to deal with Edea.

6. “Just stay close to me.”

“Speaking of a perfect fantasy, the romantic storyline of Final Fantasy VIII is just that. The romantic plotline, which many fans consider to be the most successful element of the game, is completely fabricated for Squall’s personal satisfaction.“

Stop, the romantic plot is a horrendous atrocity and I question the sanity of anyone who says that it was a successful element of the game, let alone a most successful XD It’s as much of a crutch as it was for SAO. Well, maybe a bit less. Hard to tell, I have been avoiding SAO on purpose and I don’t want to hear about it again just to compare the two.

I don’t think that Rinoa’s affection is weird in the dream-like-way. She is overzealous in my opinion but Squall has some similarities to Seifer that could have drawn her to him (I only question why he responds to it the way he does after coma happens). Rinoa does dislike Squall’s cold and introverted personality initially and later on you can see that she is trying to mold him to suit her liking. If it has been all a dream, Squall’s dream no less, why not make her like him the way he is? Why have the dream version of Rinoa try to change him?

“The relationship Rinoa and Seifer had is never again mentioned, except by Seifer in the form of taunts during battle.”

Actually, it is mentioned even if dismissively when Rinoa and Squall are returning to Earth. I DO think that jumping from Seifer to Squall is a stupid, immature decision but I don’t think it’s that far-fetched. As far as Seifer being an alright guy to complete villain post Squall’s possible death, I think that it’s just really bad writing. You can see it with the majority of the characters in this game.

7. The end.

I do admit that the final cinematic was some weird shit. I mean...

Sweet dreams everyone.

Okay, but as far as why only specific scenes are replayed over and over again, I think that those the scenes of most significance to Squall. He fought with Rinoa and there was this weird flirting on her part throughout the game but definitely the very first time he met her, he was thrown out of his element which is why the ballroom was of such significance. Squall doesn’t feel comfortable with dancing so being pushed into it out of nowhere definitely caused him a lot of personal distress, something that it’s easy to recall. Same goes for Rinoa in space, by this point he developed an obsession with her and was terrified she was going to die, had there been a cutscene with here laying in the hospital bed, we would most likely get it as well.

“If this was really how the game was meant to be interpreted, why did they make the “dream” so subtle?“

I think people are just giving to much credit to this game ^^; Some things are way too elaborate for it to be a dream and others can be explained logically even if you play by the “dream’s” rules. The weirdest thing that did happen in the game was Laguna “dreams” but those were happening before Squall “died” and Ellone is the very first person you meet in the game. I also find it funny that Squall would dream about having Laguna as his father, he just didn’t seem like a good material for one until you get the “dream” from his stay in Winhill and Squall didn’t like him at all and think she is a moron. And by FF standard, the rest doesn’t seem that crazy tbh.

“The ending is like recapping the game on acid.“

Oh, that’s for sure. (*look at the picture above* *shudder*)

I guess I will type what I liked/didn’t liked.

+ Laguna, Selphie, Squall

- Romance

+ GFs

+ draw system (tedious but it was cool to have no mana to worry about)

+/- GF system (there should be more slots for abilities)

-/+ Music (not memorable but okay, one song during the final battle was cool)

+ Triple Triad

+ PuPu Quest

- the lake quest (way too vague)

- confusing graphic (no option to mark passages or ladders like in FF7 led me to a lot of confusion since I either didn’t realize that you can go to x room or that there is a lever/rope I can pull. It is caused by rending interactive elements with the background which makes them difficult to distinguish. Chrono Cross handled it well since the interactive objects were rendered similarly to the character models).

- fuck 10k kills achievement

-/+ if you miss Occult Fan III you cannot ever get it (luckily you don’t need it for achievement or to summon Doomtrain)

+ Selphie’s limit break, lol

+ Gilgamesh getting payback for Odin, lol

- too easy (fight against the final boss was laughable and I was only using attack command).