#even her fake dad eventually gets some version of this where he's like. i'm gonna stop interfering because you know what you're about

[coquelicoq]

i love how everyone close to "jiang li" at some point or another has their moment of "girl i KNOW you're cooking up some shit and you are not going to tell me anything about what it is but that's okay. do what you gotta do, i gotchu." like everyone goes dang this girl is up to something...no idea what it is but it doesn't matter. this 18yo who spent the last 10 years in a convent knows what she's doing and i am just gonna follow her lead on this. i am yours to command, recently former teen nun. no questions asked. you got this.

[spiderpussinc]

I don’t think it’s very fair for you to try and knock others from reading Miguel’s OG run because truthfully that’s the only place you’re going to get his full character since every run after that is just “Let’s place him in different time scenarios to fix other people’s problems”. I’ve read ur reasonings and some of the issues I just don’t see and that’s coming from someone who’s ALSO half Hispanic and had similar family experiences. Idk I guess comic Miguel is rlly important and relatable to me and you shouldn’t turn others away from having that potential connection too. :/

NAH LOL it is *not* the only place to get his character truthfully -- his character is not consistent between runs, or between comic and movie! Not even Pdavid's runs have an unified version of Miguel since he just becomes an author self-insert after one point. The way Pdavid writes '92 Miguel - Gabriel is also shamelessly almost the same as he wrote Bruce Banner - Rick Jones. (another series where he ended up being pushed off the book after he started making really weird decisions; and notice these last two are white guys, which is how pdavid depicts Miguel all the time.)

I haven't even told people to not read them. In multiple posts i say 'read the first ones to see how it is, stop when you get annoyed, look up summaries, don't feel obligated to treat it as canon because it isn't.' If anyone feels threatened by this they should examine where that defensiveness is coming from.

I'm gonna be real with you that's like saying "the only way to REALLY understand Miles Morales is to read his ultimates run." You know, the one where his mother gets eaten alive by Venom, his dad thinks he's at fault for killing her and nearly beats him with a cane, where the closest thing he has to peter is a clone named jessica drew, and that eventually gets completely retconned in a universe explosion so main universe Miles can be rewritten. Do you remember seeing any of the things above in ITSV? Would you call them *the only real way to fundamentally understand Miles as a character?*

I keep seeing the rhetoric that 'real fans' have to subscribe to the very first script of these characters and that somehow enjoying their ATSV versions is fake-stanning and that is just... not true. That's not how comics work. Our most iconic, definitive, memorable traits for MANY of these superheroes have come from subsequent comic runs, rewrites, feats of adaptation and the interaction between fanwork-becoming-canon. Even uncle Ben's 'power and responsibility' schtick is NOT an original part of Peter's first draft. That came from re-imaginings and rewrites.

I'm really, truly not a fan of the argument that 'relating to parts of a character' completely absolves the text from criticism. It's not a good comic. It barely tries to be latino rep and frankly, I'm not going to praise it for just placing a label on him and doing nothing with it. I don't care for this white man's truth. It's racist and creepy and I should be paid reparations for having to read a storyline where the same girl gets paired up with two different brothers and then their father just to end up getting killed for a sexier token love interest. I am constantly frustrated by the argument that new fans should be forced to read it and potentially get turned away from comics forever; it's one of the worst offerings you could give them. 90's Marvel and DC are a public fandom joke and nearly led the market into bankruptcy!!!!! (Marvel filled for loss in 1996. IT WAS BAD. That's part of why the whole 2099 line went up in flames! The money was going down the drain.)

I've been a comic reader for a long time and I just can't give them blissful innocence passes like that. The current editor-in-chief at Marvel did yellowface and pretended to be a japanese man for years to write some shitty superhero weeb comics with no accountability whatsoever. He still has a job. RUNNING the company!

And here's the thing: I like Miguel too. I have a shitty family and I empathize with that but I KNOW he deserves much better than to be confined by white people's scripts and fetishes. I *want* him to have a chance, multiple chances even, to be completely rewritten and remolded by latine voices without the need for them to constantly refer or tie back into that white man's work; It is our right just as any other.

ATSV throws away most of Miguel's baggage, and straight up refuses to refer to the weird indepth sludge pdavid had going on; the artbook doesn't mention these first comics or most of his runs, they actually talk about other groundbreaking sci-fi concept work and the idea of basically rebuilding the landscape from scratch, and I am deeply thankful they do that. One of the biggest themes of the movie *is* that the idea of comic canon is fraught and full of holes, and that we should subvert it into joyful and honest expressions of these characters' cultures. These are movies that begin with the Comics Code Authority stamp, a censorship marker that among other things explicitly prohibited the positive depiction of pro-civil rights narratives and homosexual relationships, and actively turned their nose at protagonist black characters — & proceed to rip it to shreds. That's what we should be doing!