#euphoria discourse

[everythingstillromantic]

Ok, so, I watched the pilot for The Idol against my better judgment after reading the Rolling Stone article about it and reading the poor critic reviews.

It's just as gross and exploitative as people say. I felt physically grossed out by the leering, objectifying gaze of the camera. The Weeknd's alleged behind-the-scenes contributions to the "male perspective" of the show make the scenes between him and Lily Rose-Depp that much more nauseating.

The dialogue between Jocelyn's team the whole first thirty minutes felt like the thinly veiled airing out of Sam Levinson's grievances we got in Malcolm and Marie but put through a "cancel culture/anti-woke" meat grinder. "Mental illness is sexy" and locking an intimacy coordinator in a bathroom came off like Euphoria meta-commentary from Levinson.

I don’t care about nudity in movies/TV if it's done in a way that feels respectful of the actors. But the descriptions of the nudity in this show as "fetishistic" are spot-on. The sex scene at the end of the episode where Jocelyn is being suffocated and he sticks a knife through the silk made me feel weird and uncomfortable. The constant shots up Lily's skirt and in increasingly skimpy outfits for no reason in random scenes felt so on-the-nose for the reaction they're trying to get.

It's not revelatory or exciting. It's just repulsive and relying on shock and outrage for clicks.

Don't waste your time. Don't hate watch. I'm not interested in encouraging a deluded edgelord on a power trip with HBO dollars behind him.

[sajirah]

Antis talking about how problematic it is for adult fans to write fanfic about teen characters is wild to me because they turn around and praise properties about teenagers...written by adults. The only difference is one is paid and the other is not.

[bredforloyalty]

#obviously Dean but the person in the tags who said Nate Jacobs is seeing in shrimp colors. so wise

@pregnancykink STOLEN VALOR wee wooo🚨stolen valor HXSFVY

[nonbinary-sticks-the-badger]

haaate how my two favourite ships (surgamy + espilver) typically involve the less popular character losing their edge and acting really out of character (but in an in character way?) because when i go through periods of not drawing/writing/whatever much when it comes to surge or espio as standalone characters (or at least outside the context of shipping) i get scared im gonna forget who they are and that theyre actually so cool

[edwardsissyhandsthtdanceslikeabb]

♡

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‧₊˚✩彡.

me: >_-

im darker than a paper bag, i am an appreciater of tws - even 4 flashing lights, and a bit of a hater. im a queer elder (teenager), wannabe reformed army (bts), i probably have unmedicated adhd & its 420 and im zazaless - life was not supposed to be like this >:D !

full scope of interests:

✩°̥࿐୨୧

★ i like ships — specifically of the dysfunctional or otherwise unconventional variety (they really make u think, maybe not in a good way) ★ i like fringe troll music no one has ever heard of (msi? queef jerky anyone?) ★ watching youtube/youtubers like graysons world, ajanugu and CJ the X - all of whom i like a VERY normal amount. ★ i like pretentious television ★ anime ★ gay fanfic ★ and reminding ppl that while specialz is the greatest intro/outro of all time - what suguru wanted to do is STILL considered gnocɪdɜ. ★ i like hating lana del rey even tho i listen to her music ★ i like fandom discourse (bc ppl's principles are often inconsistent & thusly fascinating, truly) ★ media below my target demographic bc my frontal lobe is cooked ★ theminem adjacent femboy neo-psychedelic rappers ★ twinkcore hyperpop ★ and also kpop. ★ i like being a raging authoritarian tankie (woke)™ ★ pretty pictures ★ pretty shows with glittery aesthetics and strobe lights that make me go: hey, sam levinson would definitely steal this! ★ also like analyzing media ★ and being a bit unpopularly opinionated (bc THINK MARK! THINK) ★ i like compensating for my irl vacancies thru chatting with the little pixels in my phone (so interact!!) ★ mature cartoons ★ old ppl music - e.g the neverland ranch man ★ gingers that look like shiv and young rupert grint ★ and kawaiihorrorcore.

★ if any of this interests you (which it should), follow/comment 2 become moots! reblogs appreciated ofc. // basic dni!!

expanded intro post:

[early-twentysomething]

At this point, Sam Levinson is a trigger word

[hyggehooligan]

Random gender memory

When I was little my older brother and I would play pirates and I always wanted to be a princess, but my brother made me be a prisoner, because he said if there were a princess on a pirate ship she would be a prisoner. He was older and wiser than me so I had no choice to go along with it. I'm trans now.

[thedepressexpress]

something I (you can disagree ofc) don't like about the sudden free access we have to authors and writers now is that it has taken a little bit of the magic out of interpreting art

I'm not saying there isn't value in trying to view something from the artist's point of view. the specific case I'm talking about is something I saw on this website where there was like a four or five word dialogue in one scene of one episode of a multi season show that someone asked the writer about. their question was about the placement of a comma in the script and the writer responded with where the comma was and that just???? pulled me out of it??????

one of my favorite things about media is that when it's out there, it's out there, whether you intended it to be received a certain way or not. once it's out there, people can perceive it however. the placement of that comma changed the meaning of the sentence and if your writing and directing meant it wasn't obvious where it went, that should be a fun point! it should be fun to consider how the delivery of the line itself doesn't clarify which version it is!! how fun it could be if we could look at both cases and just speculate!!! maybe there's a third secret way it could be interpreted that we haven't figured out yet!!!!

idk having definitely yes and no feels limiting in how much you can interpret of the art in front of you if the creator is there telling you what to take away from the dialogue despite their vision not translating on screen. I get that as people who enjoy art, knowing what the writer meant to say is important. the person who asked definitely wasn't seeking to take away from people enjoying speculating and the person answering definitely didn't take away any interpreting liberties that the public has. but it did remind me of why I dont watch celebrity interviews, because as a casual enjoyer, it's fun not to worry about the "correct" interpretation and see art as something you emotionally respond to rather than something meant to be understood in a specific way

maybe that's a naive way at looking at though :/

thoughts?

[variousbones]

I’m no longer in the extremely weird fetishizing Gerard way as a supposed trans woman club (led by tumblr user girlgerard), that was 2 years ago and I’ve grown as a person. However comma I will continue to allow myself to still get excited about the interviews where Gerard talks about feeling more connected to women than men. While the trans-truther fan stuff is deeply invasive and inappropriate, I cannot deny that interacting with that content also revolutionized how I view and interact with my gender and allowed myself to explore gender presentation in completely new ways. Like leaning into the inherently monstrous aspects of being trans that are so so so beautiful and sometimes repulsive and also strange and uncomfortable and REAL. I am both Frankenstein AND his monster. Gender is a construct and I am building it with my bare hands using dirty scavenged parts. I was also so positively influenced by the unabashed thirsting over traditionally unattractive features and gender non conformity. Stomach pouch, strong legs and stubble on a fem presenting person, straight silhouette, signs of aging like gray hair, etc etc etc. It gave me the confidence and permission to love the parts I recognized on my own body. Attractiveness is not the be-all end-all of worth, nor should it be. But goddamn it is so refreshing to see a middle aged person with an average body be framed as the pinnacle of sex appeal. And especially because of his gender non-conforming presentation. It’s a kind of representation I needed to unlock new parts of myself. It was so extraordinarily liberating and I’m so grateful for the other healthier sources of those feelings that I’ve found since then. Yes I have a parasocial relationship with Gerard way. Whatever. Yes I still follow an account on here called milfygerard that posts vaguely trans truther stuff sometimes. Sue me, they post really good fandom updates and otherwise I generally agree with their views and approach to things. Whatever. Nuance exists. Two things can be true at the same time. Etc etc. I know how to distinguish online brain rot from real life.

[the-ugly-ly]

you ever have the opposite where your parents don’t try and make you cis but they try and make you trans. yeah that’s what my mom did.

i wasn’t allowed to be a girl. or like girly things. or wear girly clothes or colors. talking about boys or wanting to get my nails done? lmao foreign concepts.

“you don’t like that kind of stuff” she would tell me any time i asked to play with barbies. so she’d get me fire trucks and electric guitars which are cool asf but maybe as a little girl all i wanted was to be a princess or a play with baby dolls and be a mommy.

tbf my mom never made me “a boy”, but i was never allowed to be “a girl” at least not in the ways i wanted to. i went through a period of my life from childhood well into college feeling sooo dysphoric. i used to lay in bed as young as kindergarten thinking i was supposed to be a boy all along. i used to tell myself that when i’m older i’ll just cut off all my hair and no one would know the difference. i didn’t even fucking know what genitals were.

in high school my sister relentlessly called me a “dyke” and a “butch”. i came out to my mom as bisexual and she quickly dismissed it and told me to keep it quiet. i started going by “jack” to all my friends and wearing axe and button down shirts with my long hair pulled back. by college i finally cut off all my hair. i felt so fucking free to be… i didn’t go by “he/him”, i landed somewhere on the non-binary/androgynous centre of the spectrum. i was comfortable there for a while. but during this freedom i could still feel the fucking dysphoria creeping and it came crashing when a guy looked into my face and told me i looked “like a boy in a dress”.

that comment alone catapulted me onto the other far extreme of the gender spectrum. i started growing my hair out, obsessing over my weight and my make up. i started buying pink. pink Pink PINK. everything pink. i fancied a new name for myself too… the one i’m still going by six years later.

because wouldn’t you fucking know the dysphoria WENT AWAY. not because of all the pink or because i was dressing differently. i realize that doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme… i slowly found my way back slightly towards the centre of the spectrum, not as far as non-binary/androgynous but slightly from femme. and all that time i thought the stress was coming from wanting to feel “more like a boy” like i was always told i was supposed to be. i thought i felt so wrong all the time because i was constantly trying to be a girl… but it felt so wrong because i was actually trying and failing to be a boy.

it never felt right, it was people pleasing. it was projection from my mom. it was an extension of her own childhood trauma and my grandma dressing her like a boy and her brothers like girls growing up. she fucked me up. i’m in my late twenties and i am just now connecting the dots. everytime someone calls me “she/her” and i get a wave of euphoria, the dots are connected. as a cis woman, that shouldn’t be so fucking profound to me but it is. being called pretty or when a boy holds the door open for me is so fucking profound.

i still have never gotten my nails done, and i have very few girl friends… but i make a point to gush over my silly crushes, and i spoil the little girl inside of me any chance i get. every day the dots keep connecting and i’m unlearning everything from my mother and childhood and past. idk if i’ll ever feel like “a real girl” though. which is the most bizarre realization. but i’ll never stop being true to what feels right in my body ever again. for anyone.

[zaddyazula]

the original euphoria was 19 minutes long crazy 😭😭😭

[teatitty]

Me, foolish: Hmm I wonder what's going on with x-men twitt today we've been very chill and nice all week

X-Men twitt: mad as fuck that Logan and Akihiro are being allowed to bond and get along again and have a nicer father-son dynamic because they want Akihiro to stay homicidal

Me: Ah (￣_￣|||)

[the-punforgiven]

I see Bridget trending on twitter so frequently and every time I do I go "Oh shit Bridget is trending! :D" and go into the tag to see cool fanart only to be reminded for the 96th time that Twitter is a festering cesspit full of cunts

[edwardsissyhandsthtdanceslikeabb]

i love rue x jules — but they have a double standard

It's hard for Jules to have ever really loved Rue like Rue loved her when sm of their relationship is filled with anxiety and claustrophobia from Jules feeling responsible for Rue's sobriety and like she can't ever get too invested/treat their relationship with too much normalcy bc the parts of herself she does share and the access she does provide will always be twofold in furthering Rue's dependency, yet making the fall out when Jules is no longer enough or romanticized by Rue worse (and being made the responsible party for not meeting those expectations ─ which is what I think the audience also did and why they have sm vitriol for Jules), and yet at the same time feeling like she can't not be there for Rue bc she will relapse (which she was proven right on lol). Basically a whole bunch of inherent inadequacy issues — damned if you do, if you don’t.

In many ways people expect Jules to be Rue's caretaker, whether it's bc she's hyperfeminine, whether it stems from unassessed transmisogny (or both compounded — with ppl bolstering conventionality onto her).

But people fault Jules for not staying with Rue and always point to Rue going through the worst period of her life (which rue VERY readily, and selfishly weaponizes against jules, but as a rue stan & kinnie, when ISN’T rue going thru the worst time of her life? she was 2 weeks away from unaliving in her s2 opioid spiral, but in the later half of s1 she was relatively ok and seemingly only dismayed by jules pulling away, so what was so different then that its supposed to trump jules being blackmailed, having her underage sex tape AND nudes in the possession of the blackmailer, the man she slept with being the blackmailer’s son, threatened with incarceration, her mom relapsing, being harassed, romanticized/stifled by her addict friend etc ETC that has ppl rallying behind rue’s entitled tirade as if she’s spitting facts and jules is getting her comeuppance as if rue didn’t lie to the daughter of an addict abt being sober after being told she didn’t want to be close to someone who was on drugs and endangering their mortality.

and why is there no space for both of their struggles, why is it competition??

as if JULES herself hadn't been mentally and emotionally exhausted and going through the worst period of her life too, and that her putting her needs first and not staying to be someone else's emotional pacifier was a morally reprehensible thing to do. Like she has to apologize for putting herself first and being unabashed about that? Yes, Jules should've explained herself, but Rue also should've asked instead of assuming it was as shallow as her moving onto the next girl (which is Rue projecting bc she's always putting herself in competition with someone else and ascribes her own fleeting tendencies and dependencies onto Jules — which isn’t to say it was ALL projection, rue feels rightfully slighted by jules’ wavering affection, but her hyperfocusing on that is reductive).

In actuality, the pure vitriol ppl meet jules with despite her having [in the words of a reddit user] profound childhood scars that led her to that boundary, Rue lying about it when they got back together, as well as gaslighting her about it, is a substantially more unethical, dangerous and scarring thing to subject someone to, esp when you realize rue’s dishonesty [specifically wrt elliot] is a big reason jules cheated in the first place. Furthermore, ppl have this massive [and inconsistent, the smoke ppl give Jules is SEVERLY overblown, esp when contrasted with similar figures like cassie e.g s1, and even maddie] vitriol towards Jules when her peers and even girlfriend have done much worse. A teenage girl being messy and shattering idealized expectations somehow eclipses rue’s aforementioned transgressions and later verbal/emotional abuse (interesting to note how rue weaponizes “whore” against jules bc she noticed how it hurt her in their first joint discussion with elliot) and Rue is NEVER held accountable regardless, which i understand but ppl are VERY selective with their grace. At the end of it all, jules is STILL the one that apologizes to rue and ppl still malign and undermine her traumas and depth…  [sigh]

People never put the onus on Rue it's always on Jules, and in that, they end up reinforcing the exact reason Jules ran away: bc Rules was never really ever allowed to be about Jules. ─ It's why she cheated, bc in s2 Rue always seemed to be keeping things from her (Elliot. Her being high during their head scene. Her being high, period), undermining her feelings (Elliot and newyears) and not paying attention to HER needs (Elliot swooping in and affirming her in ways she clearly wishes Rue would), which Jules is sort of equally as guilty of, but when she DID try to be there, Rue would get snippy with her (in the car with the ddrink, when she told Leslie about the pills and the head scene), there was always distance and pretense between them in S2.

S2 was the season of relapse, the season of false perfection, and that's equally as true for Jules, she tries to rectify her mistakes by striving for Rue's validation and reclamation (aka trying desperately to fix her perceived faults through external means), but when Rue is seemingly uninterested she falls back into her usual, safe vices of male attention.

As a youtuber – Shanspeare notes, in s2 most of the characters get what they thought they wanted but are consequently faced with its dark side, as well as the dark side of themselves. Because the story is told from Rue's perspective and s2 is her finally getting what she's always desired, she's confronted with Jules' flaws and insecurities which is building off of s1's finale and how Jules, ultimately, chose herself over being Rue's crutch (bear in mind Jules never asked for Rue's romanticization, she never asked for those unattainable standards, she never obfuscated her truth, faults and all — Anna was not a mistake and that's undeniably and equally as problematic as its repeat in s2, but she encapsulated a freedom and empowerment counter to Rue. At the season's end, Rue chose to leave her and Jules chose the same, and given that their budding relationship was predicated on emotional vulnerability, it tracks that smth as dubious/shaky as Rules would be trumped by smth grounding and solid).

And thusly, her idealization was shattered, which allows Jules to exist as she truly is, no longer a manic pixie dream girl or a symbol, but now a fully-fledged person. Jules is in the low point of her arc as opposed to regressed, as many characterize her — her trajectory makes sense in light of s1. She's still herself, just dealing with challenges. It's not easy to free yourself from your vices, especially when it's stuff like comphet, insecurity and toxic relationships.

However, seemingly, now that her angst and struggles aren’t deemed permissible by the audience, nor are the circumstances in which they are manifesting [and she isn’t palliating it through maternal-adjacent placations/is of diminished use to our main], the empathy and humanity granted to her are all readily revoked, her very teenage tumultuousness deemed unacceptable [even by comparison], a transgression against idealization and expectations — PLUS she’s no longer hyperfeminine and preoccupied with gender conformism, making ppl doubly susceptible to maligning her – her ethereal, soft, palatable veneer removed, subconsciously or not — but you can't have believable character development if a character's vices don't actually challenge them and have extended baring over them. And you can neglect a person’s struggles and flaws, but that doesn't make them any less HUMAN. Like is jules not allowed to be a bit messy and confused and fucked, both mentally and in her coping mechanisms, considering ALL that she went through, and wouldn’t a degree of empathy towards that be expected? (apparently not lol – that’s the answer).

*Which, is why, upon writing it out, Elliot doesn't seem as inconsequential as many people make him out to be. He represents Jules' need for external/normative [male] validation, and the barriers between Rules in their relationship. Her cheating with HIM was not random or contrived at all, it's her seemingly taking back agency within the relationship and getting to keep smth from Rue too/have access to smth Rue wanted to keep from her. It's her putting up barriers too (but also knocking them down bc now Elliot is theirs ─ if that makes any sense).

While someone like Tyler felt safe to her, he also felt like an anomaly, a cishet [white] man who amidst all the transphobia and sexism and toxic masculinity that normally cloaks the most conventional and powerful members of society, Tyler was different. He could provide her with the stability and love she'd been craving *(from white cishet society ─ which makes her relationship to Rue doubly interesting bc Rue is a black, lesbian, gnc, lowkey asexual girl, the opposite of everything Jules wants, but in many ways smth she NEEDED to experience). I also to some extent agree that she didn't love Tyler for him, moreso the life she thought she could access through him (eg. when she forgets that Tyler's dad is no longer in his life, the things she likes abt him being super generic, their life together being super idealized), Tyler is more of an ideal to her than a person, but that doesn't mean her feelings weren't real.

All that to say that I love Rules, and I LOVE Rue, she’s my favorite character, which is why I acknowledge all these realities while still loving and accepting her. Rules are one of my otps, but the onus placed onto Jules is unhealthy and unfair, and is revelatory of a lot of inherent bias and ingrained expectations ppl have of girls like Jules, as well as the double standards these expectations expose. You can’t truly be for Rue and Jules while prioritizing one over the other. People’s fervent need to both adultify and reduce Jules to an emotional pacifier deprives her of humanity and grace and goes to show how placing ppl on a pedestal is not inherently favorable — only allotting empathy on the basis of conformity and acceptability as opposed to ppl inherently deserving it unconditionally. Jules is a human being and she deserves to be acknowledged as such. Circumstance was the unfortunate downfall of not only Rules, but the clouding of her love for Tyler [and dare I say her unwitting attraction towards Nate, which is for another post lol].

[souvlakicocaine]

no offense but rue calling jules “a little slutty” and saying she’s a whore TWICE and elliot doubling down on this sentiment was fucking disgusting. like we get it

[etoile-gracieuse]

“gen zers are sexless straight edge prudes, euphoria is unrealistic” this and “gen zers are not sexless and pure, heartstopper is unrealistic” that

my god. i knew people who did coke in high school (albeit mostly rich kids and the people around them). i got drunk for the first time in middle school (i am aware that that is not healthy). i also didn't have sex until i was 19. my ex was having sex at 15; he's never touched a drop of alcohol. i know people who don't have sex and don't drink or take other mind-altering substances. i also know people who hook up w strangers weekly and make the most potent edibles i have ever tried (and they somehow were more wild back in high school, if you can believe it). like. i was 16 figuring out where friends could get abortions in my conservative ass home state, offering up places to stay to people kicked out by their parents, and trip sitting for people on acid. i was also going on ice skating double dates, sending cringey good morning texts w heart emojis, and wasn't allowed in my ex's room w her door closed.

no single portrayal is going to perfectly distill the diverse experiences of a group of people that stretches from 12 year olds up to 26 year olds in a way that makes everyone happy. no portrayal should be expected to?? that would be terribly dull??? it would defeat the purpose????