#especially in the context with stolas it makes him more complex (and he's -already- a complex character) and it's so cool <3< /div> Explore tagged Tumblr posts

[angeldust-69]

Thank you sm for analyzing this i rebloged it so i could keep coming back to see it

Queer secondary adolescence and Stolas

(I keep forgetting to put this up here)

Ok, so Stolas being teen dad is one of the reasons I get annoyed when people say he's too horny with Blitz. Or that his relationship is too dramatic and teenager-y.

He's a queer guy who never got to be a teenager, didn't get to have a first boyfriend, or explore who he was. Or do any of the normal stuff most straight teenagers get to do.

His family stuffed him in the closet, forced him to have child, and gave him an abusive wife as jailer.

(He around 36, with a 17 year old daughter. 36−17=19 when Octavia was born. Likely married at 18).

He's got some chatting up to do.

Up till now his whole life's been about Via, and mitigating Stella's abuse to hid it from Via.

That's left him barely hanging on, taking an increasing amount of antidepressants; and singing lullabies about not being sure he'll make it till Via's grown up.... 🙁

There's this thing called second adolescence that alot of queer people experience, when they come out later in life.

It happens when they're weren't allowed to do normal teenage things at the right age. So things like having crushes, go on first dates, have extremely anxious dramatic relationships. As well just be a normal horny teenager.

Stolas got to do none of that. So he's doing it now.

He's also pretty obviously an autistic guy (separate post ), who didn't get well socialized as a child.

Blitz appears to have been his first and only really friend.

Stolas is not great at social cues. (He's so happy to be able to help with his special interest, but does realise his tone is upsetting Ozzie).

Even with Via he struggles to understand her. She needs to tell her dad flat out what she needs.

When she tries to be subtle, and snark he assumes it's just her being a moody teen. And that she'll enjoy loo loo land when she loosen up a bit.

Because of this lack Stolas mostly fills in gaps in his social experience with masking.

Such copying Gabriel hairstyle from helluva novella to get ready for his first ever date.

Following Blitz's lead of what to do in an uncomfortable situation.

And trying to match the energy of how Blitz first came on to him.

(He's definitely getting better at it from Blitz reaction).

There's also an idea in CBT called reparenting your inner child. Which about giving yourself some the support, and experiences you missed out on because of abuse.

Stolas needs to go through his secondary adolescence as part of his recovery from his abuse.

So let Stolas be a little horny weirdo. 😛

PS this one will brake you heart. Stolas is standing fully in both these pictures.

You can see how much he's grown by her light switch.

Kid hasn't even reached his full adult height yet when he had to have a kid.

[sirdust]

so I Am Thinking about that thing octavia said in ep2, about stolas running off with blitz, and i have an idea eating away at me regarding it, so i’m gonna dump that theory here. it’s highly speculative and probably will end up inaccurate, but i also think it’s a plausible route for things to go, and also it is killing me, so i’m gonna share it anyways. here we go:

“Are you gonna run off with him? And leave me behind? Go away where... I can’t find you?”

SO. i’ve brought up the idea of this happening before here on this blog actually (though i also stated that i didn’t think stolas would ever abandon octavia). as a result, hearing it brought up in-show was a bit of a shock.

we can tie this back to the flashback at the beginning of the episode, where octavia has a nightmare as a baby that stolas is going to disappear and leave her behind. her father seems to be the one friend she has in the world, so this part definitely is meant to address that fear of hers. in a broader context though, it’s an interesting point to bring up, because it’s a bit of a jump. we know stolas is unhappy in his marriage, but there’s not been any evidence so far to suggest he would go so far as to abandon his current life. octavia is picking up on something here that we as the audience haven’t really had the perspective to deduce.

of course, while stolas craves room to make his own happiness outside of his role and responsibilities as a political figure and husband/father, i think he was sincere when he promised octavia that he would never abandon her. she’s the most important person in his life and i don’t think he would ever do anything that he knew would sever his connection with her entirely. he’s not the best father, but he loves her and is trying his hardest to be what she needs, even if he so often falls short.

HOWEVER. that doesn’t mean that this isn’t ever going to come up again.

“I hate that fucking clown.”

this episode establishes for us twice that blitz and octavia think similarly to one another. which is cute, and a funny gag, but i also have to wonder if it’s meant to be character-informing, or at least have a bigger idea behind it. if it does, then that definitely makes octavia’s specific fear a little more interesting as it pertains to the greater narrative and blitz’s potential character development, due in no small part to what blitz himself may fear regarding his relationship with stolas.

i think most of us who watch the show have gotten the impression by now that at least part of the reason blitz pushes stolas away is because he’s afraid of being hurt, specifically that he’s afraid stolas doesn’t genuinely care about him and sees him as a toy to be used as he likes. this is backed up by the fact that blitz is convinced nobody loves him and probably doesn’t believe he’s capable of being loved (likely due to his inferiority complex, definitely fueled by his place in the lowest ranks of hellborn society).

stolas is a figure of at least moderate importance within this society while blitz, in contrast, has been fed the idea that he’s disposable for his entire life. when the upper crust exploits the position of imps in hell to begin with, why wouldn’t he feel like stolas sees him as an object or plaything, especially since stolas is also misreading the situation and doesn’t realize how his actions affect the people he cares most about (octavia and blitz)?

but blitz isn’t going to be able to deny reality forever, especially as his own emotions towards stolas become more intense and complicated as the series goes on. and now i get to the main idea behind this post-turned-full-on-essay:

at some point down the line--maybe sooner, maybe later--it’s entirely possible that blitz is going to try and convince stolas to abandon his position and his wife so that they can actually enjoy their relationship to the fullest, and because stolas’ life now is so clearly making him miserable, and blitz has no choice but to admit he doesn’t want that for him. he also may bottle up his feelings until this point, so that he finally is honest with stolas and with himself, at the riskiest moment possible.

stolas is going to say no.

and this is going to be a CRUSHING blow for blitz, who is already so dominated by his inferiority complex and his insecurities regarding how stolas views him. if stolas is willing to stay in a broken marriage and lead a stuffy aristocratic life over leaving with blitz, then just how little must he really think of him? blitz would, incorrect as he may be, take this as confirmation that stolas doesn’t care about him, and that he’s an idiot for ever getting attached. because blitz is impulsive, he doesn’t think things through, and he has a hard time understanding his own emotions, let alone those of others.

this obviously wouldn’t be the end of things--we all know they’re endgame--but it would function as a darkest hour in their relationship, one that challenges them both and puts them in an extremely difficult and interesting position.

boom. there ya go. if it doesn’t happen, free fanfic idea.

[weaselbeaselpants]

The virgin Hazbin vs. The Chad Helluva

((hey is the “virgin vs. CHAD” meme associated with alt right or anything iffy guys I’m kinda worried it is. PM me please))

This is long. Also read my earlier post for context.

Earlier this month I was chatting it up with a friend about how Viv gets heat for her material stuff while other purposefully “edgy” or “problematic” writers get a pass. The convo made me realize another important note about why I prefer Helluva to Hazbin and that’s it’s approach to it’s own themes and humor:

There’s a spectrum of pure shock/schlock humor to biting, meaningful satire. South Park, Drawn Together, Panty and Stocking and anything by Brandon Rogers is on the schlock end. Bojack Horseman, King of the Hill and Aggretsuko are on the black-comedy-satire end. In the middle are Rick and Morty, Kill la Kill and Venture Bros, where the humor can be either basic and cruel or strive for something more.

The schlockiest of schlock still have their followings who are in on humor that’s, first and foremost, out to get under your skin and even makes fun of them. When these works are “progressive” it’s usually just through sheer representation of a minority, and if they DO strive for a message, it’s little more than a much needed hot-take pointing out how stupid something is. South Park in it’s prime was ESPECIALLY good at the former.

Another interesting about these properties? The characters aren’t really that complex. They ARE strawmen! They are stereotypes! They ARE awful people. But either through the sheer audacity of the situation or how much the plot involves them, you somehow end up caring for these miserable, one-note people.

Viv’s humor fares more on this basic “schlockynottooseriousparody/comedy”-side of things, but Helluva Boss does this better than Hazbin.

Helluva Boss -both the actual pilot and it’s promotional material- doesn’t make any promises for any “deeper” character development. None of these demons at I.M.P are good people. None of them are SUPPOSED to be good people - they are literally demons who were never human and know nothing but absolute sin. 

((yes, I know this sounds similar to the “they’re in hell” non-argument. My point is not that this defense is foolproof, but that it works better in the context of Helluva vs. Hazbin. It’s a world building quirk, even though I’m not 100% sure Viv and her audience are in on the joke))

It makes their weird bits of NOTawfulness more funny because what business do they have being polite about their work or having any emotional connection to each other(Moxxie and Millie)? But they do! Blitzo is weird, even for a demon, but again he IS ONE, so his breaking into his coworkers house is just “annoying” to Moxxie and Millie rather than, you know, stalking which is absolutely what that is <--- it’s a bit of comedy that, to me, tells you what you need to know about these demons and what somehow is and isn’t good to them, which is to say: it varies!

((The one MASSIVE exception to this is Stolas who is 100% predatory and it’s played for laughs. Beejesus no. Get  owl boy out here. ))

Different series use their mythical creatures to different affect. In Satina the joke is that this demon-antichrist really is more of a little girl with a looser dad w. the version of hell being a send up to classic, even basic depictions of demons in media. Helluva’s different, with the Hell in that world being more of a ritzy, scummy city where everyone’s a dick to everyone else, and that’s fine. Even the joke in the beginning where the imps interview one of their clients tells you all you need to know about why this guy is in Hell, how he doesn’t get the point, and what the humor and tone of the short is striving for. I guess that’s why I’m just not offended by them using the R word, Blitzo laughing at the homeless (which is more of a joke on Blitzo, I thought), or the child murder. It felt oddly in character for these awful little creatures.

Helluva knows what it is and what it wants to be. While it’s fans and creators still take it too seriously, it really doesn’t set out to do much.

Hazbin has 99 problems and good world-building aint one. What IS one of those 99 problems - just as if not more than the lackluster storytelling or world building - is it’s attitude towards the subject matter.

Hazbin wants to have it’s cake and eat it too, but it isn’t properly established and the creators/fanbase already overemphasis how our cast ‘isn’t ALL bad; deep down’ and how they’re ‘complicated’. It gets me mad when people claim Angel IS GOOD representation because I just ‘don’t know the whole story yet’.

-You’re right! I don’t. Stop building it up because as I’ve said before what we have at the moment is what we 100% get. I can’t criticize what I don’t know but I can criticize what I do know.

And what I know about it is Viv tends to promote her brand as being representive of LGBT+ people. Her fans and her act as though her works are actually a total net-positive ‘guyz we’re just being edgythey’reinhellandit’sapilotsoit’sfreefromcriticismanywayletswritefanfictionforaserieswedon’tactuallyknowyet.’

If Viv and her brand didn’t promo Hazbin as being deeper than it actually is/NEEDS TO BE at the time of this production in the storytelling - well THAT would axe a lot of the bad criticism right there. For all the discourse in the She-Ra and SU fandoms about what is and isn’t good representation, the showrunners of those cartoons don’t aim to stereotype + hit for the lowest common denominator while also insisting that their show is actually woke and ya’ll “just don’t get it.”

((As an aside, if you are any of the following: gay, crossdresser, sex worker, undead spider demon-whatever, and you DO find Angel Dust empowering. GREAT! AWESOME. MORE POWER TO YOU.

But just because you aren’t offended by it and it was made with good intentions does NOT give it a pass < that’s the point I’m trying to make. ftm even with the explaination of the infamous ‘Charcoal’ design in SU, black people still have the right to be offended))

Remember the episode of Family Guy where Quagmire’s dad transitioned? It was Family Guy so no matter what it was gonna fumble the message, BUT what made things 100000x worse was Seth McFarlane promoting the episode as something the Trans community would really like.

It’s one thing to be ignorant or trying -and failing- to make a difference. It’s another to be arrogant about it. 

If you are gonna go all schlock-humor I think it’s best to take the lead of Bltzo’s voice actor, Brandon Rogers. He makes A LOT of sacrifices for the most insanely-purposefully-offensive jokes that straddle between making fun of everyone or just rustlin some jimmies. Dude’s the modern John Waters.

He also doesn’t promote himself as a gay icon. He just is gay and what helps a lot of his characters is that he’s often making fun of gay stereotypes by giving them character or making homophobes the butt of the joke. Brandon doesn’t act like a net-positive. It’s when you hear him in interviews that you know he’s genuine and know he’s not a threat.

And it’s why I don’t have the same expectations I have for his work that I do for Vivs; Vivs works are often telling me how I should feel. ((ftm it’s also why Brandon’s approach to writing, comedy and potentially deeper elements are better than Doug Walker’s or Sam Fennah’s attempts to make awful people “moving”))

.....hey is there anyway we could give Viv’s shows to Brandon cause I would love a Brandon-Rogers-flavored Hazbin/permanent Helluva!

---

TL:DR: If Hazbin had established itself like Helluva with it’s cast just being unlikable, nothing else you needed to know about them, it could have then PROBABLY have worked it’s way up to being like Venture Bros or Rick and Morty in it’s activism. As is, it’ still only “progressive” in a hypothetical sense, and I’m sorry but that hurts it’s credibility as a joke and a thought piece, which or whatever it wants to be...