#especially because she apparently didnt tell charlie or lucifer where she was going
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jinxed-sinner · 3 months ago
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Do. Do people realize relationship dynamics can change??
Usually I stay out of shipping discourse but people need to realize that relationship dynamics can change. I personally don't think Lucilith, as of now, is canonically toxic, but i DO think there are toxic patterns in how Lilith treats Lucifer and his relationship with Charlie. I have every right to think it's fucked up that Lilith made a deal with her ex to stay in the realm that traumatized her husband though! This isn't me saying "Lucilith is bad and shouldn't be shipped" because I like pre-series Lucilith. More accurately, I like pre-Charlie Lucilith. It's implied in More Than Anything that Lilith didn't like the things Lucifer was showing Charlie so she just forced them apart, potentially making Lucifer’s mental health issues worse.
I'm not saying people can't like Lucilith, but if you think it's NOT weird for Lilith to be in Heaven on a deal with her ex, you're sanitizing the situation because by doing that Lilith left her mentally ill and traumatized husband and her daughter to rule Hell on their own. She hasn't talked to Charlie or Lucifer in 7 years.
(Also, they might not be divorced but they are separated, as mentioned by Charlie; she specifically refers to "after Mom and Dad split". I can't say I'd blame Lucifer if he did decide to divorce her though.)
I'm not trying to indicate that Lucilith is objectively bad or anything but I AM saying Lucilith shippers need to stop using the family portraits to deflect "Lucilith looks like it MIGHT be toxic in the current day" commentary because like it or not, Lilith leaving her kingdom that Charlie claims she absolutely adored for her daughter and mentally ill husband to rule and leaving to the realm that traumatized her husband so bad he doesn’t seem to care if they decide to try to kill him is fucked up.
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tinkdw · 7 years ago
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Cas and Dean could have been totally platonic.
But they decided to make it romantic.
During seasons 4-5 we could have had all the Cas / Dean scenes minus the UST. We could have had heated arguments that turned into a mutual understanding and Cas learning that he had always been different, always loved Humanity and through both Sam and Dean fallen and decided to rebel to help them.
They could have kept it as this:
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But they didn't. They made it all about Dean and added scenes like this:
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Side note: they could also have TOTALLY portrayed Dean as a dude-bro straight as a rod hetero guy.
But they didn't
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In fact there’s so much talk about Dean being bisexual it’s just... everywhere, not just on tumblr but in so many reviews and articles about the show e.g. just the latest one I’m aware of:
http://uncannymagazine.com/article/dean-winchester-commander-shepard-walk-bar-fanon-matters/
Then throughout the later seasons, they could have backtracked. They could have said hey, that was all fun, but nah, let’s keep Cas and Dean as a more brotherly familial love, to tie in with the “family don't end in blood” theme.
I would have TOTALLY gone with that, happy Dean and Cas and Sam, all together as brothers, could have been AWESOME.
But they didn't.
They consistently wrote them through ROMANTIC storytelling.
I’m just going from the season 7 resurrection because prior to this it was most likely not ever going to be endgame if it’s true they were going to kill Cas off.
Season 7:
- They could have not cast someone who looks like Dean’s female twin as Cas’ wife when he is amnesiac.
- They could have not had Meg call Dean his boyfriend first and make Meg/Cas romantic while Dean looks on with both Daphne and Meg with hurt in his eyes.
- They could have not introduced a queer character and make her immediately bond with Dean right at this point and then continue this theme over the years.
Season 8: 
- Purgatory could have been a bro-ment, except they gave that role to Benny and placed Cas firmly in the romantic role, especially post purgatory with Dean’s visions being paralleled to Sam’s of Jess and his boner moment in 8x07, literally, wtf, that is not brotherly affection. 
- They could have not had multiple episodes after Cas’ putting himself in harms way to save Dean in purgatory that revolved around a Supernatural being doing this for the human they loved.
- Then a whole story around brainwashing which one gets the other out of through telling them I love you I need you, followed by a whole storyline of Dean behaving like a JILTED LOVER and Cas trying to fix it, meanwhile Sam looks like the awkward person caught in the middle between a couple fighting, NOT his own two brothers!
Season 9: 
- They could have had a story where Dean chose Sam over his best friend and newly found blood-brother, who he did a blood pact with and loved dearly in Bad Boys, but no, it was a ROMANTIC parallel. 
- They could have had Cas not have sex with April or it be Sam who killed her and clutched his face in agony, so Gadreel felt it and healed him while Dean was knocked out. They could have then had Dean NOT sensually wrapping his mouth around ANYTHING OTHER THAN A PENIS SHAPED BURRITO whilst making sexual innuendos to Cas. But they did.
- They could have had the bar scene in 9x09 be all about the 3 brothers having a great time together, playing darts, having fun and chilling, rather than having a flirting winking thing going on between Dean and Cas and Sam just looking on open mouthed like WHAT IS HAPPENING WHY AM I HERE. 
- They could have had a story that wasn't focused all around sex in Rock and a Hard place, but they chose it to be sexual (when that ep was supposed to come right after 9x06).
- They could have had Ephraim going after people who were in pain and suffering due to familial loss when he went after Cas, but they didn't, they made it a ROMANTIC parallel again.
- They could have NOT had a renowned romantic song about loneliness, a deep shade of blue, the sun not shining anymore (when there had been so much Cas = sun visuals this season prior to this) and being “without love” with an “I NEED YOU” playing over softly interspersed images of Cas and Dean’s sad faces, when they had to separate due to duty (seriously, the one shot of Sam is just of him looking at Dean and worrying about how he is feeling during the intro before the lyrics play. Pfft).
- They could have had Dean help Cas get ready for his date by doing a Charlie-esque totally platonic scene where he took him shopping for a sweater and jeans, rather than making it look like he was undressing him with his eyes, forgetting to leave cos he’s just staring at him and looking longingly at him while calling him Tony Manero, a heavily subtextually bisexual character.
- They could have NOT paralleled Dean and Cas’ huge emotional traumatic break up in 6x20 with canon star-crossed lovers in 9x20. But they did.
- They could have had Metatron talk about how much Cas cared about puny humans and how he’s a sap for the mud monkeys, rather than making it ALL ABOUT SAVING DEAN WINCHESTER and using words like HE’S IN LOVE (giant ass pause).... with Humanity.
- They could have then not had Amara telling Dean that he literally represents humanity and Chuck backing this up. Pff.
Season 10:
- They could have used Hannah as an actual romantic love interest for Cas rather than paralleling her unrequited love with Cas’ perceived unrequited love of Dean and using her to EXPOSE this. Or they could have just not made Cas’ story sexual/about romance AT ALL.
-They could have had SAM be the person Dean gets soft around instead of Cas or if they wanted to make Cas the brotherly figure, they could have done so in a way that didn't scream ROMANCE like putting them in a date-like set up, making Crowley call Cas Dean’s BOYFRIEND, exposing how he’s doing it all for Dean and dying for him whilst paralleling this to Hannah’s romantic/sexual interest in Cas. 
- They could have NOT repeatedly paralleled Cas with Cains’ WIFE in the Dean/Cain parallel, the love of his life, who softened him and made him want to be a better man.
-They could have had Dean get just as squicked about Destiel as W*ncest in the 10x05 fan fiction episode but they DIDNT. They made Dean squicky about W*ncest and testing the water with Sam by mentioning Destiel, then getting embarrassed by it instead of grossed out.
Season 11:
- They could at any time have made Cas/Sam stronger by the way by this point. But they didn't. They purposefully made Sam/Cas less strong than Dean/Cas for *reasons* and those aren't because Cas and Sam don't care about each other and love each other as brothers/best friends because they repeatedly state that they DO. So go figure.
- They could have had the Angels torturing Cas as not making it sexual whilst talking about his loyalty and love for the Winchesters. But they did.
- They could have had Dean worry for and fight for Cas while he is possessed by Lucifer in a totally brotherly fashion as he would with Sam, but they made it ROMANTIC.
- They could have had the banshee in 11x11 go after people (again in parallel to 9x06) who were in pain due to familial loss rather than ROMANTIC loss when it went after Dean. They could have had the heartbroken manager look and say things that DIDN’T remind us of Cas before this happened, BUT THEY DID. They could have left it there but instead they gave us Mildred telling Dean that he’s PINING for someone. Just before he tells us in 11x13 that he is NOT pining for AMARA. So WHO is he PINING for?! Who has gone missing AGAIN? Who is he repeatedly over this and the next season worrying about?
-The monster in 11x13 didn't have to be a DARKEST DESIRES monster (and not a love monster) and the story focus on unrequited love and therefore expose that although Dean’s feelings are of dark desire here, he states they are NOT love and that he ISNT pining for Amara.... SEE ABOVE.
-Amara could have gotten to Dean through a MULTITUDE of different options, through their own apparently strong bond. But they DIDNT. They did it through CAS and specifically THROUGH HIS HEART. I MEAN JEEZ.
- They could have NOT introduced at this point two characters who are gruff awesome hunter men who TOTALLY personality wise, story-wise and visually through their shoulder patting interactions are GIANT METAPHORS for Dean and Cas, while referring to the earlier ‘settling down with a hunter’ discussion in 11x04 through DEAN curiously wondering “what’s it like, settling down with a hunter?” after having mixed up brother / romantic vibes off them.
-They could have had the 'you’re our brother’ moment in the car in 11x23 feel wonderful and fulfilling but instead (because of all this previously and the way it was framed) it felt OFF and WRONG. Because this isn't the full truth is it Dean.
- They could have not had the whole season be a giant metaphor for this through Amara mixing up a brotherly and romantic “bond” (their words not mine) through Chuck and Dean.
THIS WHOLE SEASON COULD HAVE NOT BEEN A GIANT EXPOSITION FOR DEAN’S ROMANTIC FEELINGS FOR CAS AND HIS OWN INNER MONOLOGUE OF SELF WORTH AND ACCEPTANCE, LEADING TO HIS ARC AND CLIMAX OF THIS IN SEASON 12 AND SPECIFICALLY 12x22.
Season 12
- They could have introduced Cas to Mary as their brother from the OFF but at no point did either of the boys tell her that Cas is like a brother to them. She just... assumed he fit in as “one of her boys” and in the family by proxy and is the one who consoles CAS while he is not able to function while Dean is missing (but was able to function totally perfectly to find Sam with Dean) and she always looks to DEAN when talking about Cas. I WONDER WHY.
- They could have NOT had Crowley call Cas a “love slave” or had Dean glance over at Cas when he picked up the satiny pink panties. But they did.
- They could have NOT had an ambiguous double-over voice of Sam telling Mary "I love you” and Dean talking to Cas on the phone. That was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and just made everyone pause and rewind to figure out what was said.
- They could have had a backstory filling in the blanks around nephilim that didn’t also have a story about an Angel falling in love with a Human and him projecting this onto Cas and Dean as his human weakness whilst also explaining that Angels are not supposed to have romantic or sexual feelings for humans at all and that it means they are bad, wrong and should be killed, that it is a sacred oath not to do so, meanwhile showing Cas as extremely duty bound and still loyal even though he has fallen.
- They could have had Cas CLEARLY tell the boys he loves them as family and they are dear dear brothers to him. Instead we got a season of double clarifications leading up to this where it was CONSISTENT that the first was to one person and the second was to everyone, on top of every other time Cas has done this the first is ALWAYS to Dean, so the ambiguously seeming “I love you, I love all of you” was blatantly a romantic / familial divide between Dean and Sam. Before you even look at the fact that he can't hold eye contact for the first but looks at Sam for the second and the reactions of Dean and Sam show that they know exactly what this means. 
- They could have had Dean give Cas ANYTHING OTHER THAN A ROMANTIC TROPE 101 lesson 1 first 5 minutes into the class MIXTAPE as a gift of ‘familial bonding’. But no, they used a romantic one.
- They could have not used the band chosen on the tape a band that is consistently made romantic through the Mary/John link and even before this a way for guys to get into Jo’s pants and a way for the siren to first try to seduce Dean.
- Throughout the whole show they could have given Dean any romantic love interest where it wasn't directly linked since season 7 with him losing Cas, feeling like he just wants comfort and SETTLING for someone else. Then in 12x18 they could have NOT made this totally clear by at this point showing it to us through him firstly worrying about Cas AGAIN, in a 2 season long repeated hammering home of Dean worrying about Cas more and more and Sam trying to console him, then settling for the omelette right afterwards and being UNSATISFIED by it.
- They could have NOT paralleled Sam pulling Dean away to the rift with Dean pulling Sam back from Jess.
- They could have NOT paralleled Dean falling to his knees as a standard romantic trope to Cain doing it for Colette.
- They could have set the whole thing up for YEARS so that Sam and Dean have a much more similar bond with Cas, a three-way brotherly bond that could totally fit with the “family don't end in blood” theme, just as Bobby was their surrogate father and Jody their surrogate mother, Cas could have been both their additional, chosen brother, given that Dean and Sam were so forced into their codependency, their choosing to be together and add another brother could so nicely cement their own bond too by adding Cas in his way.
But instead they chose to make their relationships palpably and obviously different, even though Sam loves Cas as a brother, for *reasons*.
In Conclusion:
EVERY TIME Dean/Cas has been narratively paralleled with 2 people on the show it’s been a ROMANTIC couple (eg. Violet/David, Maggie/Donald, Jesse/Cesar, Bobby/Karen, Mary/John, Betsy/Cacao, Chronos/Lydia, Cain/Colette...) not BROTHERS (as Dean/Sam have e.g. Lucifer/Michael, the kids from 1x18).
When Cas and Dean have been targeted by monsters it’s often because of a ROMANTIC reason - one which on the surface might look like it’s for example Nora or Amara but is textually shown NOT to be, meanwhile setting their own interactions in the same episode between each other as heavily subtextually romantic.
They could have made Dean/Cas a brotherly relationship and that could have been AWESOME and totally relevant to the themes of the show. But they CHOSE to make it romantic.
I SHIP DEAN/CAS AS A ROMANTIC PAIRING BECAUSE THE SHOW MADE ME DO IT.
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