#endogamy

[finelythreadedsky]

i've been reading a lot about fundamental differences between homer and tragedy and one interesting thing is the preoccupation of tragedy with the conflicts of women's loyalties to their natal and marital families, which manifests in so many tragedies putting women in situations where they are forced to choose sides in conflicts between their husbands/fathers/brothers/sons (eg medea chooses her husband over her father and brother, antigone chooses her brother over her future husband and potential children, procne chooses her sister and father over her husband and son, creusa remains dedicated to her father and his lineage instead of her husband and his). women are supposed to forge chains between men by their marriages and tragedies are so often interested in what happens to those connecting links when things go sour.

and that's just totally absent in homer, there's never any tension between icarius and odysseus or between eetion and the house of priam or between autolycus and laertes or between tyndareus and either paris or menelaus and agamemnon. most of the time either father-in-law or son-in-law is totally absent from the narrative. there's nothing that would put a woman in the position of mediating between the family she was born into and the family she married into.

but you know who in homer does experience this tension between loyalty to natal and marital families? hector. in iliad 6 andromache begs him to adopt a more defensive strategy because she and their son will be totally lost if he dies, and hector speaks of having to fight for his father's glory and his own. andromache and astyanax will suffer if hector dies well and bravely fighting for a lost cause, but priam will benefit. hector even acknowledges that after troy's fall it will be andromache who suffers most, not priam or hecuba-- for them the memory of hector's glory will be a consolation, while for her it will only be more pain. hector is torn between his father and his wife, the family he was born into and the family he has created through marriage.

[collegeboysam]

i think they watered down the levels of insanity and carnage that makes blood and cheese such an important part of the dance by completely deleting maegor out of the story and not making helaena choose to then kill the one she supposedly "loved more", don't get why they did that at all but hey i try my best to watch hotd like it's a fic with a budget so i clap and nod when i like something or sigh, shake my head and move on when it doesn't make any sense

[burlveneer-music]

Bound By Endogamy - s/t LP - synth-punk from Switzerland

Geneva-based duo Bound By Endogamy delivers a heavy blend of rave, synth-punk, and industrial music. Shlomo Balexert and Kleio Thomaïdes are both prominent figures in the local squat and punk scene, having been involved in numerous projects over the past decade. Following several cassette releases and a remarkable debut 7'' on Lux Records, the band presents a self-titled album that combines raw, growling basslines, crisp analog rhythms, and passionate vocals ranging from breathy to fiercely cutting. On stage, the project consists of drums, a sampler, and vocals. Shlomo handles the drums alongside sharp synthesizers, while Kleio delivers powerful vocals reminiscent of a professional boxer. Expect a fusion of DAF and Kleenex with a hardcore edge. Junktion Rivers was previously released on LUX REC :)

[aifol]

Bound by endogamy

[smartfox]

BOUND BY ENDOGAMY - Nothing

[nctrnm]

#NowPlaying: "PREMIERE | Bound By Endogamy - Stuck In A Loop [Bongo Joe Records] 2023" by 432Hz Social Club

[whtaever]

[qyburn-in-the-black-cells]

it’s so interesting how Cersei and Rhaenyra having illegitimate kids is both a form of reproductive and sexual agency - and cultural norm breaking. Rhaenyra has children with a non-Valyrian knight - an exogamous affair when Targaryens practice extreme endogamy. Cersei does the inverse and has children with her twin brother. even though Criston’s the main Jamie foil, you can find parallels between Harwin and Jamie - martially talented; known for physical attributes; nonexistent or minimal relationship with their kids; disabled younger brothers who have greater significance in the story; dysfunctional families - there’s no way Harrenhal, a dead mom and two dead stepmoms produces normal childhoods. That’s to say I would eat dirt for a Harwin Strong POV short story - or flashback episodes ffs.

[harshr]

All of the Acid Avengers EPs range from good to great, but there's a few that hit 'em out of the park; this is one of those. I really need to dig deeper on Bound By Endogamy.

[cacaitos]

dont have anything interesting or smart to say abt kisshou tennyo aside from sometimes you come in thinking its yuri and come out reminded that the family is a hellish structure and so on.

[niobefurens]

Wēn Family Tree 👀

Diagram below the cut.

“Wēn Qíng was renowned both within and without the Wēn Clan of Qíshān. She wasn’t a daughter of the head of the Wēn family, Wēn Ruòhán, but rather the descendant of one of his elder cousins on the maternal side (表兄 = BiǎoXiōng). Although they were distant relatives, Wēn Ruòhán had had a good relationship with his cousin since they were children.” MDZS/GMDC 7Seas ; Vol. 3; p. 148.

表兄 Biǎoxiōng = cousin, usually means: mother's sibling's son, or father's sister's son, older than oneself. In MDZS it appears to be used for a greater degree of separation (as it is specified they are distant relatives  – third cousins, for example).

Me: If I assume the normal rules regulating marriage in ancient China to apply in MDZS, as they seem to (if we look at the other shì), I must take into account the following:

“Confucius described marriage as "the union of two surnames, in friendship and in love";

[in China] “traditionally incest has been defined as marriage between people with the same surname." One of the earliest marriage prohibitions, and one surviving to this day, was that forbidding persons of the same surname to marry. An imperial decree of 484 A.D. states that this rule was promulgated far back in the Zhou dynasty; 1122 to 255 B.C."

From the Confucian perspective, marriage brings together families of different surnames and continues the family line of the paternal clan.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_marriage

According to R. H. Van Gulik, as early as the feudal period (1500-222 BCE), “marriages among the members of the ruling class were strictly exogamic. The marrying with a woman of the same surname, be it principal wife, secondary wife, or concubine, was completely taboo.” Sexual Life in Ancient China: a Preliminary Survey of Chinese Sex and Society from ca. 1500 B.C. till 1644 A.D.; Leiden, Brill, (1974); p. 19.

Thus, Wēn Ruòhán’s cousin cannot be the son of a brother of Wēn Ruòhán’s mother (or, his surname; and his children’s surname could not have been Wēn). For the same reason, he cannot be the son of Wen Ruòhán’s father’s sister, as she would marry out of the Wēn-shì.

Wēn Qíng’s father must be the son of one of Wēn Ruòhán’s mother’s older relations (or even ancestors: aunt, great-aunt, etc.); who, obviously, also married a Wēn (or again, the surname would not be Wēn).

ME: Huh what?

🙄

More reaserch unearths:

“In ancient China, some evidence indicates cases where two clans had a longstanding arrangement wherein they would only marry members of the other clan. Some men also practiced sororate marriage, that is, a marriage to a former wife's sister, or a polygynous marriage to both sisters. This would have the effect of eliminating parallel-cousin marriage as an option because they would have the same surname, but would leave cross-cousin marriage acceptable.

In the ancient system of the Erya dating from around the third century BC, the words for the two types of cross cousins (甥 shēng), were identical with father's brother's children (甥 shēng); with mother's sister's children both being distinct (從母晜弟 cóngmǔ kūndì for boys and 從母姊妹 cóngmǔ zǐmèi for girls).

However, whereas it may not have been permissible at that time, marriage with the mother's sister's children also became possible by the third century AD. Eventually, the mother's sister's children and cross cousins shared one set of terms, with only the father's brother's children retaining a separate set. This usage remains today, with biǎo (表) cousins considered "outside" and paternal táng (堂) cousins being of the same house.”

See China, in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

Anthropologist Francis Hsu described a mother's brother's daughter (MBD) as being “the most preferred type of Chinese cousin marriage.” Hsu, Francis L. K. (January–March 1945). "Observations on Cross-Cousin Marriage in China"; American Anthropologist 47 (1): pp. 83–103.

Me: Fine, let’s draw this up…

🥱 and, I did … 🥱 but ...

Look what happens when I get to Wēn Yuàn … 🥱

😳

I give MXTX enough credit that, if this is so, she put it there for a reason. In canon, incest is a very real social problem (JGY/QS).

Friend (who reads Chinese, and  who has kindly supplied the original terms): The Wen-shì do not adhere to the the exogamic rule. They are so big they can intermarry among Wēn without consanguinity issues.

Me: So the whole thing could ... just be RED ... !!!

Friend: Yes...

Huh? What?

So: not technically incest; but certainly galling to everyone else who adheres to the rules (think of the Làn...)

Is this one of the reasons everyone hates the Wēn??!!

Do they think they are so cool, and so hot, everyone else is beneath them?

In ancient republican Rome interrmarriage of this type would be considered a "regal insurgence" (attempt to make oneself king - illegal known as crimen regni).

Which is what Wēn Ruòhán seems to want do?

Make himself king? And the Wēn-shì the ruling family = dynasty ?

🙃

Suppposing someone got this far, any insights, comments, and takes are very welcome. ❤️

[onlinenotebank]

Endogamy Marriage and It's advantages and disadvantages

A. Concepts of Endogamy : Endogamy is the form of marriage in which one must marry within one’s own caste or other group. This rule does not permit marriage of close kin. Endogamous marriage is that which is confined within the group. As a matter of fact, endogamy and exogamy are relative words. That which is endogamous from one viewpoint is exogamous from another viewpoint. In the sub-caste…

[mesetacadre]

One under-discussed conclusion that must be drawn from the period of student encampments last spring is the absolute necessity of linking the student movement(s) with the worker's movement. They were always limited in the realistic achievements they could reach -getting universities to divest from Israeli institutions and companies- and very often also limited in the stated scope of each encampment. This is the manifestation of two problems; the excessive fragmentation and localism which plagues student movements in the imperial core, and the comparmentalization away from the broader worker's movement.

Focusing on the second aspect, students are not a separate class of people with separate interests. They are the children of the working class, many of them forced to work while studying, and all of them conditioned by the functions of higher education within capitalism; to create the hyperspecialiced educated workers demanded by capital, and to ensure the reproduction of the dominant ideology. The only substantial differenciation of students from the rest of their class is the distinct forms of socialization, receptiveness, and in general, the organization of their day-to-day lives. From this reality it would then follow the understanding that specific student organizations are useful and often necessary, but only if it is also understood that it's just a secondary (but also important) action inside the broader stage of worker's organization

If there had been a unified student movement capable of striking with a single fist that also understood its connection with their own class, the encampments could have been framed within a bigger and much more effective course of action. The negotiations and pressure for specific divestments would not have been the end-all-be-all of political achievement, but another facet in the internationalist struggle against genocidal settler-colonialism. Instead of drowning in the shallow pool of its own endogamy and being severely subjected to the comings and goings of student mobilization cycles, it could have supported itself on the more stable (although not free from cycles) workers' movement as well as being an occasional crutch for it.

[timetravellingkitty]

Eh I am not so familiar with Indian astrology but why is it a bad thing?

okay so I don't like any kind of astrology in the first place but wrt india astrology is given a LOT of power, a lot of legitimacy here. it's an excellent tool for oppression in hindu society. star charts are interpreted by priests (who are brahmin) and are used to justify caste endogamy. two people's kundilis HAVE to be compatible for them to get married, you can't go for the career you want if the star charts say so. really it's a way to exert control over young people it's very ugly

[acertifiedmoron]

a lot of targaryen takes sound like people making up some guys to get mad at. it gets a little tiring, the way they're imagined as uniquely awful within the text. i'm not certain we were meant to interpret them as the worst of westerosi nobility, simply that, being westeros' reigning house means they are afforded special narrative spotlight and scrutiny. if we had as much specific information on the history of the kings of winter or lords of winterfell, it would look much the same in terms of frequency of despotic rulers and dynastic conflicts. in the present timeline almost every noble house is in the process of unraveling, that's a theme with the lannisters, the tullys, the greyjoys, the baratheons, and the rest. the decline of house tully can be traced directly back to hoster forcing his teenage daughter through a dangerous abortion and then trading her as a political bargaining chip. it all goes back and back, tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. <- dynastic decline and intergenerational violence is an overarching series theme. like. "targaryens were always destined to die" is not really saying anything other than you think they're all ontologically evil i guess. and yeah about the dragons and the incest. well. i think the endogamy has more to do with concentrating dragon power within the family and less with the notion of 'valyrian supremacy'? i may regret saying this since i haven't read fire & blood cover to cover, but how is the sentiment behind “the blood of the dragon” materially different than “there must always be a stark in winterfell”? i don't know! they ALL believe in the inherent superiority of their bloodlines that's just how it works under feudalism where inheritance is secured through primogeniture.