#ely talks abt tgc!! | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

rajghafa · 8 months ago

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I am so sorry for how much I have talked... anyways... here it is.

thanks for answering and for showing me, I had forgotten about that part and good god it was worse then I remembered lmao. I agree with everything you said and I feel like most of the books are like this to be honest, colleen writes something that it could be just imaturity or maybe irrational ramblings, but then finish at it. as if that is just it. as if she thinks of it this way, that's the only explanation I can think of. Kelsey could have a ableist thinking/perspective and that not be what the authot thinks/agrees with and colleen was just portraying someone who thinks like that? yes absolutely, but that is no coherent at all with what CH presented to us in the prior books so I do not think it is a case where the character says something shitty to reflect people irl, is just shitty writing and thinking.

and as for my opinions, I have many, A LOT. I first read the 2 first books when I was 11, then reread when I was 12 to continue reading and finishing the series. but I don't remember much of all of them except for tiger's dream and I never read tiger's promise because for me it always felt as CH writing something just for the sake of it and not because it was necessary? anyways. I will say what I think based on what I remember, so I might get some things wrong.

first of all, I never reread the series after finishing reading it. I read the book 1, 2 and 3 when I was 11-12 then read the 4 and 5 (tiger's dream) when I was 15. pretty young and I had not yet all the opinions I have now. not that I am 30 something now and have read thousands of books, I just wanna say I was a child when I read it and tho I knew and thought the books were bad I just wanted to have fun and read something that didn't make me think much of it sometimes. so yeah, why I liked it and went as far as reading the 5 books? because I was a child I guess, if it was bad then whatever at least there's some characters I like in here, like a guilty pleasure I think. it's one of those medias that you consume that you KNOW are bad

now, moving on to talk abt the books itselves.

- bad writing: I read the books in my native language (portuguese) and I feel like this might have made the book a little bit better, from what I could see of the englishs quotes you and others posted here on tumblr they managed to make colleen writing look better then it is. it wasn't so simple in portuguese, I mean, I look at this quotes and it feels plain, not compelling, not interesting, just words in a page. but that's not what I remember from when I first read it. I mean, it was not the best thing either, but they at least felt like a story?

anyways, I always thought CH had this horrible habit of making everything too obvious in some chapters and then too complicated on next. and I am not exactly talking about the events happening, but the way she delivered informations too us. she wanted to create a suspense sometimes and I was like girl what are you doing like what is this. it was just NOT it. she wasn't good a creating these vibes she wanted most of the time, because the rest of the book was just us receiving information too easily and obviously for her to make it coherent.

the dialogues were also something I sometimes found bad, too unrealistic, I had to repeat to myself "maybe they're just talking like that because they are ancient or whatever" but then kishan sometimes sounded waaay more normal than his brother and kelsey also said some weird shit sometimes.

like her saying she was a radish. like please. who is the seventeen (I think she was 17 on the first book?) years old who would compare herself with a veggetable to say she found herself ugly and unworthy. really? there were none other analogies to be made? idk it never sounded realistic to me. but kelsey was always "not like other girls" so I guess that was a consequence of that. I know 17 years old are not THE reference to communication but just the fact kelsey sounded so childish sometimes made me so mad, like she is not dumb!!! she is just young, they are not synonyms. she is immature sometimes? that's okay, she is a teenager and everyone has their moments, but her being immature in everything was too much, that made the writing get boring and repetitive and TOO on the nose.

- kelsey: since I started talking about her, let's continue...

kelsey hayes. white. seveenten. orphan. adopted. not like other girls. loves reading. is very ladylike when is convenient to the author.

that is just trashy y/n fanfic from watppad where the protagonist is a cliché.

I have always disliked kelsey, sometimes even hated. also kelsey sounded a bit more interesting when she was talking about something else that had not the minimum relation to her so I that's also something to think about.

but talking abt her personality now - there is none. that was my problem with kelsey, she was the main character and I knew NOTHING about her except she was an orphan and liked/loved ren, liked mr.kadam and considerated him a father and felt whatever she felt for kishan and also liked reading. that was it. nothing more. she was shallow. we only start to see GLIMPSES of a personality and an actual different kelsey (who somehow manages to have the same responses and "personality" throuought all the series even after facing traumatic events) in the 4 and what was to be the last book. that made me mad as hell, like wdym I will only see the mc being "interesting" on the last book??

kelsey was also a dumb girl who made impulse choiced and wanted everyone to be solicit and emphatic with her after. I really don't like her most of the time, there were sometimes where I actually liked her but those were moments when she was in battle or doing something useful because then she'd stop talking shit so that's not much.

also, everyone was in love with her. everyone. EVERYONE. like why. why why why why why. it was casually thrown in every book, everyone loved or fell in love with this blank piece of paper of a girl. and she still talked about herself as a radish, "oh noooo I am soooooo unlikable omggggg no one likes meeeee except the two indians princes fighting for me and also the other five guys hitting on me like ohhh nooooooooooooooooo!"

- dhiren: hate him guts. like even more than kelsey. I really dislike him. hate might be too much, but I really had troubles reading everything kelsey talked about him, so indifference might be the proper word here. I felt indifferent too him. he was a copy and paste dark tall handsome blah blah blah whatever. but my main too problems about him are: it was obviously fetishization and he was too perfect. ren was the sun and the stars. ren was the earth and the sky. ren was a gentleman, but also masculine and dominant and assertive. ren liked shakespeare and was a prince !!! royalty !! yay like fuck off am I supposed to believe he is perfect? he doesn't have any trauma? he is stuck IN A TIGER FORM and he is patient, calm, sweet, gentle, *add here all the words that mean good guy in the dictionaty* ALL THE TIME? 24/7? he never cries, never gets sad, never gets angry, never nothing??? he just is dirhen the perfect barbie made out of plastic prince all the time??

I always felt like santana lopez feels about broody weston. that guy isn't real he is for sure made out of plastic and wax and it freaks me out.

tho I liked when he called kelsey dumb so points for him, someone just had to do it.

and idk how this is even possible, but it feels like ren has even less personality than kelsey. THAN KELSEY HAYES. A SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD WHO IS NOT LIKE OTHER GIRLS!! like tell me what do we know about ren besides what kelsey deems attractive? NOTHING! we know NOTHING. because he has NO OTHER "FUNCTION"/ROLE besides being kelseys romantic interest. "oh he likes shakeaspeare and cookies" KELSEY SAYS THAT! KELSEY who ALSO likes shakeaspeare and cookies, she NOTICES that because she in love with him and will highlight everything they have in common. besides that, ren is just a prince who happens to be cursed and has a estranged relationship with his brother - a brother that for most of the series he showed no love for except for brief moments. (I have a lot to say abt their relationship too and how I think that had potential to be one of the best, if not the best, things in the entire series if it were written good)

- mr kadam: I do agree with your tags, I think he is easily replaced by a computer. but this - like many other things in this series - feels to me like one of the cases where a author who writes badly creates a good character and doesn't give them space to breath. so he is not someone important in a explicit way, he is always acting implicitly, from behind the curtains, and CH expectes us to love him even tho we don't a shit abt what is that he is ACTUALLY doing.

the thing is - I guess I liked him because he was a father figure that stayed by the boys side even after he lost everything, and he cherished them and took care of them not only because of a promise to their fathers, but because he grew to love and consider the boys as family. I like that. I think the idea is great, compelling, but it was developed shitty and mr.kadam feels like just a tool they needed because of 1 he can solve everything we can't 2 he has the money, when the potential was there... I think I made a mistake saying he was one of the most developed characters**, what I really wanted to say was, the idea of him - the character he could've been, bounded by faith and an oath, losing everything and everyone he loves, but keeping himself strong for the boys - that was good. he could've been and ACTUAL and ACTIVE father figure who also had a compelling backstory and was not just Around.

this might be the same way I feel abt kishan... that is, I filled in the blanks and ignore the canon and turn him into a blorbo/oc-like and he is FIne! and Interesting!

** mild spoilers alert --> (Idk if I can give u spoilers SO !!! MILD SPOILERS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but he has more mentions and actual/active actions in the 4 and 5 (tigers dream) book)

- kishan:

so. kishan. I like him a lot - have in mind that when I refer to him, kadam or anamika, I tend to (not just tend too, I completely do) ignore canon and books and "fix him". he is my blorbo. basically an oc at this point. I think the little me that felt hurt and like a pariah in her own family heavily related with him when he was introduced and now I just kinda of don't want to let go, because I do like his character and the potential he had, and also related to him in some way.

anyways, much like kadam, I feel like he had potential, but he wasn't developed well and I feel like that also had something to do with mental health stigma, fetishization, toxic masculinity and also plot convenience.

⤷ mental health stigma and plot convenience:

it felt as if kishan was the troubled and disturbed brother. the brother who could not control himself and his impulses and was too much, too sarcartisc, too rude, too savage and wild, too intense. kishan is the opposite of ren, and yet, always deemed as weaker. it not ouright or explicit stated from what I remember, but that is the feeling/conclusion you take from the text. phisically and mentally, ren is portrayed to be stronger than him, more trustable than him.

it felt to me as if kishan was supposed to be the brother who got most of the trauma from everything they lived and didn't know how to deal with things in a healthy way. he was the one with the ptsd and who got the consequences.

first of all, that is not a bad thing, I do think it is way more realistic than dhiren by the way, kishan is way more compelling than him. he has actual feelings and "a bad side" - but is that developed well? no, absolutely not. and I have many many problems with this.

kishan had the potential to be a character who overcomes his traumas and learn from the past and tries to heal, a simple and yet compelling narrative. he went through a lot, he always felt like brothers shadow (the potential for this was THROWN IN THE TRASH when CH used it for romance instead of developing a fraternal very nuanced bond between the brothers), he lost his family and friends (something that also made me mad/frustrated was how CH never depicted the rajaram brothers having friends in their past life as princes, the reader is just supposed to fill in all the blanks of their personality/backstory holes) and had no one he really trusted. the material and the potential was there, you'd think it would not be hard to use it and actually do something good. but well, turns out that for CH it was very hard. kishan is twisted and shaped to be this disturbed and wild little guy who resents his brother that once he overcomes his trauma, turns out to be another version of dhiren. AND YET, he is still portrayed as lesser than dhiren for not acting or having the same "personality" and temperament his brother has.

kishan being healed on the second book was something that I took years to realise I had hated it completely because it took the decision and the path of healing out of his heands and made it seem like something simple and it took away a major part of his storyline. I am not saying his whole personality was resenting his brother and being traumatised, but I am saying that that was something important for his development. and that would've made it him a character that more people could connect and relate with, and actually make at least ONE character on this series to feel real.

as for the plot convenience, 1. how would CH describe and write kishan healing journey if the books is told from kelseys pov? I think she was lazy af and didn't want to search and find ways to depict that and just focus on the easy "spicy" part = the annoying and shallow romance and 2. becaus of said romance, kishan had to be a "proper" love interest, and that meant no more traumatised kishan! because why would a girl fall in love with a hot headed disturbed guy right?

⤷ fetishization

colleen is thirsting over the rajaram brothers and everyone can see that. she wants them to be hot and masculine and oh my god a hot !!! indian !!! prince !!! wants me <333 what do I do !!! and that ruins them. like ruins them. dhiren and kishan are sometimes nothing more than himbos (but withouth the funny and satirical or interesting part) they are just the typical oh wow fantasy-hot-guy-who have powers-and is soooo strong-and look at those muscles-damn!-that boy is hot. and it KILLS ME because for me, what made me actually want to finish reading the books was the curiosity to see if the mission would succed and the brothers and how their end would be, I didn't care for the romance (and how could I when it was so bad?) and wanted to see dhiren and kishan actually being their own beings and not just hot pieces of meat.

⤷ toxic masculinity

a man cannot be weak, right? a man cannot hide or be traumatised. that's how it feels, that's what the text transmit when kishan is not allowed to feel nothing if not what is deemed right (again something that relates to mental health stigma) and masculine! wdym he wants to stay hidden? hasn't him had enough of throwing this tantrum? he needs to MAN UP!!! kishan is again depicted as lesser or weak or immature because he is not acting in a way people expect and want him to act.

and I also want to add here that a lot of things he said or did to kelsey felt just like wanting to prove himself as apt or whatever. he was not in love with kelsey, but the idea of her, of what she and his brother had, but instead of using that and writing something good CH made him go oga booga kelsey is hot and I like woman. as if kishan could not keep it in his pants. because a man and a woman could not possibly be friends also...! she had the chance to make kishan and kelsey besties on a journey and went on to make them a weird situationship with dhiren crammed in the middle.

I have sometimes wished to "fix" and rewrite some kishan scenes, for I really hate how he was portrayed most of the time. so, returning to what I said at the beginning I often think of kishan as not book accurate and a character that could have something else if written different.

- kishan and anamika:

I like them both as a couple, but at the beginning I had a big problem with "accepting" them because it felt too much like a consolation so that kishan wouldn't be sad and miserable forever and anamika was not just throw and spun around the story at the last moment without actually having a connection to things.

and I don't know how much of it I can say it to you, so I will not dive into this topic too much and just say that I liked how they ended up, growing fond of each other, but also have problems with some stuff about that. again, the idea was compelling and even great, but CH manages to write somethings badly, like always.

- ren and kelsey:

suck balls. not an attractive or compelling couple. two of the most annoying people on earth started date, great, I might kill myself. wished they would've parted ways at the end of the book but it is a romantasy so that'd never happen, but they were not meant to end up together AT LEAST not until kelsey developed basic communication skills and ren was a real human being made of flesh and blood and not a barbie doll.

- racism/sexism: I think you have said everything there is to say about this. CH didn't research probably and cultures and countries are portrayed through a racist len. orientalism is very heavy. fetishization also. it was one of the things that actually made me want to research things correctly and learn about them in the right way tho.

- lokesh: he was a soap opera villain. but a trashy and really bad one. I am brazilian for gods sake, I was RAISED by soap operas, I LOVE them. so this is the worse thing I could say abt this guys. he is the villain you hate not because he is good and it's fun to hate him, but because why the fuck would someone write such a shitty character and still have the courage to publish it.

what drives lokesh? power. what lokesh wants? power. to do what? to gain even more power and then be the most powerful of the powerful guys! powerfullines and power and did I mention power? lokesh just wants and wants and tho that could've been worked well through the perspective of corruption and how a human can go, this is not the case, lokesh is not the case. he just wants because it is necessary for the story to have an antagonist. we know nothing about him besides him being cruel and borderline creepy about sex and woman and breeding, another big problem for me. I wish I could understand why is it ren and kishan are so so so deeply scared of him and still managed to live all of this time without dying. and okay we know based on some explanations we are given, but it still feels shallow and rushed.

- "love triangle":

sigh. do I really need to say it? say how bad and cliché and nonsense the "love triangle" was?

was it necessary? no. was it compelling? no. was it infuriating? yes. was it something that prejudiced the relationship between kishan and dhiren and made it hard for the readers to connect with them and consider their love for each other interesting? YES YES YES YES YES. was it the only thing remotetely close to a personality that kelsey ever had? yes.

I think all I said was enough, but... yeah, I hated the love triangle. I don't like to think of writing and art in general as something that was to have utility to be deemed good or bad, utility/purpoufulness and art do not walk together, sometimes art is just is, without wanting to teach something meaningful or life-changing or a moral lesson, BUT I do think there is cases - mostly talking about books - where we need to turn and look at the theory and understand what are we doing. and colleen was doing something called self inserting. and that, is not a very solid base to build your romantics plots and relationships...!

- kishan and dhiren:

they had the chance to be compelling (omg I am repeating this word a lot I am sorry I am sleepy) and interesting and were not. because between there a white elephant called kelsey. they would sometimes feel like brothers who had been bound together by destiny and were facing a major curse and had their freedom and life taken away from them, but then they would just become two horny teenagers who know nothing but looking at woman again and it the moment would be gone and CH would take 20 more chapters to be able to do it again.

- self-insert/(y/n):

colleen wrote this for herself, that's the truth. she wanted to be y/n and thought why not? and that how kelsey hayes was born. just look at where kelsey goes to live at the end of story... look where she and ren go and settle down. that answers everything from the series, literally everything. kelsey is colleen projecting. that's why it feels so bad, is a poorly and rushed written wattpad fanfic.

- conclusion:

I have completely roasted this book to the point you might ask what do I like in the books. well the answer I don't know exactly, most book accurate/canon things I like only happen in the tiger's dream and yet most of them are because I have heavily interpreted and also filled in some blanks. I do like more the idea of what could've been that the books lmao, and I do like some characters (and treat them as separate from the book) more than the books too.

but it was a special series for me for a very long time, and it was one of the firsts books, the first I think , of fantasy that wasn't happening on united states or europe and it made me curious and excited when I was a kid. it made me want to know more and read more from other cultures, although I recognise how poorly depicted it was and how racist too.

this series feels to me too much like something that could've been good, maybe even great if done right, correctly, but at the end who I am to say all of this? at the end it's just how I feel about a silly books series that is very niched and that I am actually glad was never that popular. and if one day this story is adapted I hope they change everything and make it actually good and not racist. but that's like waiting for a miracle.

@jelly-as-in-grape-concord made this for me

Tiger’s Curse book 3 is officially the worse book I’ve ever read and Colleen Houck is my eternal enemy.

#ely talks abt tgc!!#I am so sorry again I got carried away

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