#either way a lot of people know fuckall about hungarian fashion so I wanted to include it because its VERY different from the west

[llitchilitchi]

a little addition: renfair is a very modernized, 1960's/1970's revival influenced take on different aspects of historical clothing, mostly from the 19th century revival period and also Heavily influenced by 18th century fashions (and arguably, a lot of the basic princess dresses that are popular for kids are someone looking at a rococo gown and thinking 'how can I turn these 10 layers of fabric and intricate layering into a one piece dress after looking at this image for all of 5 seconds?')

however, a lot of the pieces that were described as being 'not a thing' in renaissance were in fact A Thing in the Kingdom of Hungary.

Hungarian fashion has remained very, very similar for about 500 years, and there are illustrations from late 1400s that depict clothing of this style. it consists of a white undershirt with full sleeves and a 'vest' on top, that is often seen with crossing lacing on the front

Countess Báthory for example - big sleeves, a vest that could easily be taken for stays, crossing laces in the front, and an apron (which has remained part of the court dress until the fall of the Empire! Empress Sissi wore a similar style of dress when she was crowned Hungarian Queen in the 1850s)

here are some surviving dresses, though of a slightly later date

The green dress in particular is interesting because it got passed down several generations and slightly adjusted to fit the newest fashions while also incorporating more and more decoration (the most recent being the beading made out of corals)

but we can see the trends here, which have been present since before renaissance: the white undershirt with showing puffy sleeves, the boned vest that looks like stays, often cross-laced (fun fact: the ladies at court could get very creative with how they tied their laces and would try different patterns as another ways to make their dress more unique! it is also an approximate rule, at least for the renaissance gowns, that the closer the laces are to each other, the later the date. early renaissance gowns had it spaced fairly far apart.)

here are a few renaissance gowns, constructed in modern times by the group Fringia - they are a Slovak-based group of historians who specialize in Hungarian court dress and way of life like dance and swordplay. most of the information I provided here is from a lecture hosted by their founder and a very insightful conversation I had with her after.

their Instagram for more gorgeous pictures

you can see a lot of influences still remaining to this day in the folk clothing in countries that were once part of the Hungarian Kingdom

so yes, while the way things are still perceived incorrectly (the stays, for example) it often seems like a mix of real Hungarian fashions of the period, things being muddled by time and reimaginations and a retroactive look at what was worn by other nationalities through a western lens

it's funny although a little exasperating how artists designing "princess" or medieval-esque gowns really do not understand how those types of clothes are constructed. We're all so used to modern day garments that are like... all sewn together in one layer of cloth, nobody seems to realize all of the bits and pieces were actually attached in layers.

So like look at this mid-1400's fit:

to get the effect of that orange gown, you've got

chemise next to the skin like a slip (not visible here) (sometimes you let a bit of this show at the neckline) (the point is not to sweat into your nice clothes and ruin them)

kirtle, or undergown. (your basic dress, acceptable to be seen by other people) this is the puffing bits visible at the elbow, cleavage, and slashed sleeve. It's a whole ass dress in there. Square neckline usually. In the left picture it's probably the mustard yellow layer on the standing figure.

coat, or gown. This is the orange diamond pattern part. It's also the bit of darker color visible in the V of the neckline.

surcoat, or sleeveless overgown. THIS is the yellow tapestry print. In the left picture it's the long printed blue dress on the standing figure

if you want to get really fancy you can add basically a kerchief or netting over the bare neck/shoulders. It can be tucked into the neckline or it can sit on top. That's called a partlet.

the best I can tell you is that they were technically in a mini-ice-age during this era. Still looks hot as balls though.

Coats and surcoats are really more for rich people though, normal folks will be wearing this look:

tbh I have a trapeze dress from target that looks exactly like that pale blue one. ye olden t-shirt dress.

so now look here:

(this is a princess btw) both pieces are made of the same blue material so it looks as if it's all one dress, but it's not. The sleeves you're seeing are part of the gown/coat, and the ermine fur lined section on top is a sideless overgown/surcoat. You can tell she's rich as fuck because she's got MORE of that fur on the inside of the surcoat hem.

okay so now look at these guys.

Left image (that's Mary Magdelene by the way) you can see the white bottom layer peeking out at the neckline. That's a white chemise (you know, underwear). The black cloth you see behind her chest lacing is a triangular panel pinned there to Look Cool tm. We can call that bit the stomacher. Over the white underwear is the kirtle (undergown) in red patterned velvet, and over the kirtle is a gown in black. Right image is the same basic idea--you can see the base kirtle layer with a red gown laced over it. She may or may not have a stomacher behind her lacing, but I'm guessing not.

I've kind of lost the plot now and I'm just showing you images, sorry. IN CONCLUSION:

you can tell she's a queen because she's got bits I don't even know the NAMES of in this thing. Is that white bit a vest? Is she wearing a vest OVER her sideless surcoat? Girl you do not need this many layers!