#either hamilton was calling him the wrong way or burr was an imposter

[hamiltrash-thoughts]

Me, on Wikipedia, discovering Burr was actually Aaron Burr Jr., and the true "Aaron Burr, sir" was his father.

[wavemaker9]

Me: Kyle and Mel having a good close friendship that makes them both happy Also me: Make them fight and have kyle jeopardize that like everything else he loves

(it got long sorry)

So Kyle doing the cornered, ‘animal in a case’ thing with mel. Unlikely if she won't press but if it did happen that'd prolly hurt mel so much if the thing she values most about her friendship with him is not feeling judged, just feeling like a lot of her perceived flaws are accepted without question. Because I've mentioned when kyle argues back defensively, he gets nasty. Just like Austin will lash out physically if pushed hard enough, if Kyle feels cornered in a convo, even if it’s only in an attempt to help him, he will turn on them verbally to get them to back off. He's not always aware of everything (see his relays with summer/doug that he dismisses the aggressively negative behavior yet his relay with art who he's frustrated with for just not displaying that art cares in a way that kyle gets), but he's pretty good at spotting people's insecurities and then using them during heated arguments without thinking about it. He wouldn't genuinely mean anything he said, he just knows. Well, his insecurities and/or fears are being brought up and he wants out of the convo more than anything, so if he does the same to them, they'll back off too. Again, Mel not being the type to press or call out specifically because she doesn’t want it back, so it's not like Cami or something where it'd be relatively likely, but if it did ever happen, suddenly this second person ever that mel has had that hasn't judged her is listing every problem and flaw she has, searching for the topic that gets the sharpest reaction and focusing on that. I remember Khep and I discussed this with Cami and Kyle and then other stuff too (during the 2p event in Hetalr, Austin said some mean stuff to Cami because he considered all the 1p nations imposters trying to fuck with them so that plus her refusing to leave because this is her friend but like super wrong finally irritated him enough that he asked her how alone she had to be to be desperate to spend time with him. basically he hopes to never see this woman again so who cares about being polite when she won’t listen to his requests), she ended up just popping him in teh face and storming off, and I have to imagine it’d be like that at least. Mat least those first few moments of accusation and betrayal and /hurt/, there’s gotta be a surge of anger that bubbles up enough to swing at least one punch his way, yeah?

Which actually speaking of that, that might be more likely to make kyle and mel clash like that since if his mood dips hard enough he’ll also get instigatory without being provoked first. It’s another self-destruction method. He gets a mindset that he deserves punishment for fucking up so badly about something and getting beat up in a fight works for that. How does he get someone mad enough to kick his ass? Make them furious with him, make them /hate/ him. And of course he doesn’t think about long term ‘do i really want them to hate me forever? No! Will they understand i was just being the world’s biggest dick to them because i was in a low place? Probably not, especially if I don’t tell them!’ so he’ll regret it later but he’s not thinking clearly now, his brain is full of bad time thoughts right now, so that’s all he can focus on, especially since in that headspace if he /does/ consider it, his brain justifies it away that he doesn’t deserve them anyway and he’ll finally send them off which will be doing them a favor and blah blah blah

Actually actually, even when he’s not in a bad place, like if he feels someone’s holding back in a fight, even if it’s just sparring, he’ll try to push them and provoke them because when he’s angry, he’s willing to fight harder, so clearly the same must be true for them. I think it was mentioned the same is kinda true for mel and that she instigates or at least instigated stuff with austin a lot in the hope it’d get him to fight her. He’s very much teh same. If he can piss them off, they’ll actually fight and that’ll be more fun than them going easy on him (I had this thought because of the taz xover since griffin had said avi was so nice he went easy on the thb when training against them and that’d annoy kyle quickly. You’re my friend and I love you but if you don’t fight me with your all that’s at best a weird unneeded secret about what you’re capable of and at worst an insult in that you think I can’t handle it, and i won’t stand for either. Gimme your hardest punch, damnit. )< ). He’s usually less emotive and fight-or-flight-y there, though, so he’ll be more careful about what he says in that he won’t aim for the comments he knows would cut deep, but he’ll reach for a lot of more shallow careless insults then and that can still get irritating very fast.

Anyway, Kyle is always super regretful and apologetic afterwards once his fight or flight reaction eases, but the problem is that he's already said those things and cannot take them back. He can apologize to mel all he wants and assure her he doesn't believe anything he said before and she shouldn't either, but he still said them. Even if mel recognized at the time that this was him being aggressively defensive, that doesn't ease the hurt of still hearing it. If she thinks about it logically, she could probably figure it didn’t mean anything and was him just being a childish asshole, but it’s hard to be 100% objective with this sort of thing. He can tell her he didn’t mean it but that doesn’t undo the hurt she felt when he said those things. It's something I never want to make canon for any of kyle’s relays because he does seriously like fuck up these good things of trust he has and that can’t easily be undone, but it’s always interesting to consider. Pushing away people he loves is something he's very good at.

Also, the one person that doesn’t tend to happen with is ivan and I think that’s very much a case of ivan never wanting to make kyle mad so he’d back off before things got that far. If he sees either of them are genuinely frustrated, he’ll back off until things cool down or switch to seeming more accommodating so that kyle doesn’t feel the need to fight as much. Besides, ivan probably would forgive kyle even if kyle said some mean shit. There might be a limit but Ivan’s super good at forgiving kyle. On the other hand, kyle would do the same if it was reverse and ivan said some super mean shit. Honestly, no matter who said it, kyle would 100% forgive the person eventually if he even remotely liked them. again, kyle took like months after being cheated on and manipulated in an old rp to even consider for longer than 3 days that maybe he should leave the relay. you have to /try/ to push him away. He wouldn’t really get past the hurt either, but it wouldn’t be a betrayal of trust or anything like I feel it would be if he was the one attacking them. Doug has gotten him really used to constant criticism and just blatant insults and has conditioned him to see that being ‘honest’, so if another friend spent 5 minutes suddenly tearing into him. Like it’d hurt and crash his mood but he’d never blame /them/. It’s /his/ fault for being so shitty. If he were better, they wouldn’t have anything to talk about, he can’t be mad at them for telling the truth, what kind of asshole does that? (see him when anyone who /isn’t/ a friend suddenly criticizes him; he’s the kind of asshole who does that) And like, he rarely fully trusts that a person 100% genuinely likes him so hearing someone suddenly flip and be overly aggressive to a hurt point like. He knew that was coming, he’s surprised they didn’t reveal how annoyed they are with him sooner. It’d never come back to the other person; it’d shake the relationship up badly enough but, unlike the reverse in at least some cases, it’d get back to where they were, and if the person showed enough effort to apologize, he’d treat them and view them exactly as he did before, no blame on them. Again, though, the exception to this is if he didn’t already like them before hand in which case it falls to the grudge level. As i’ve mentioned, poor ludwig in hetalr criticized kyle once during a bad mood time (and that time it was just genuine issues not even just aggressive argumentative callouts) and kyle has never forgiven him.

Other stray thoughts! If he did end up doing that to mel, not just mel fucking pissed off at him, but micha when he finds out what kyle did. Two friendships one stone, whoops. Micha probably even worse? Like Mel’s probably not happy with kyle but suddenly dealing with a lot of self-critical thoughts again. Micha wasn’t the target though, not dealing with that, just full on ‘how dare you make my sister feel like that’ anger. Remember that ‘bitch was talking shit, now bitch can’t talk no more’ ask micha had a while ago? That. Micha 100% killing kyle brown, fucking finally. Even if mel recognized why kyle did that and eventually got even partially past that, i feel like micha wouldn’t ease up on that even after some time because that wasn’t at him, that was at mel. He liked Kyle, a part of him still wants to like him, but that man hurt his sister terribly and so Kyle can suck a fucking big one.

Also, less expected, but like. austin would def kind of side with mel, too. Mainly because he’s just so annoyed by kyle constantly, it’s very much the burr vs hamilton ‘i just want him to stop talking and acting so confident, that’s what i’m here for’ thing, but also. Like in family au especially, kyle gives /a lot/ of shit to austin. Like /a lot/. I’ve made at least a couple posts about how kyle knows how to get under austin’s skin and knows austin doesn’t have the strength to get him back so he fucks with austin constantly. Austin’s in a bad combination zone in that he’s family so teasing/being a dick as a form of showing love is acceptable to kyle, and austin’s cold and selfish personality makes him seem like a dick to kyle + he’s not trying by kyle’s standards so it falls under ‘the asshole has it coming’ category. Austin tries hard, just like mel, or kyle, or anyone else. It’s not always obvious and there are some times sure where he’s not trying as hard as he could, but more often than not, austin actually is doing his best to just manage here. he’s not an overachiever or anything. when he cares, it’s barely and surprising, but just because he’s not putting his all into it every second doesn’t mean he isn’t trying at all. But he’s cold, he’s selfish, he’s asocial and solitary, he’s not charismatic or kind or loyal or empathetic, he’s passive and he takes for granted the things /kyle/ sees as austin’s best assets in life (his family), he’s all the things kyle looks down on, and there aren’t many things kyle /does/ feel like he can look down on, so kyle looks downon them extra hard. I said how kyle is very much the ‘as long as you’re trying your best, that’s fine!’ person, but the catch to that is that /he/ has to accept that you’re trying your best. Just like how he’ll not always catch on that someone loves him as much as they do because they’re not showing it in ways he recognizes as affectionate or caring, he also is clueless to the idea of someone trying in a way he doesn’t recognize. It’s really something i guess most if not all teh australias show, but while with aus and aud, that conflicts with people like mel, for kyle, he wouldn’t get aus or aud. That’s why he totally gets mel is trying, it’s very much in the same way he is. But austin’s trying is by being reserved and proper, and it doesn’t make sense so clearly austin just /isn’t/ trying. Kyle is very aware of only the things he can recognize. He understands that people have different views and ways of handling things like scientists understand how the brain works. He knows it’s technically there, and he understands parts of that to a point when given the chance to learn, but if you really look at how much he gets that, it’s surprising how little he actually understands for how open minded he tries to be sometimes. Which is another thing i don’t like about him. I gushed before and said i was too hard on him but right now nah i remember why i don’t like him, i’m probably about right in how hard i am on him.

Anyway, austin deals with kyle’s shit constantly and, as i’ve mentioned in the hp au talk, he’s well aware that kyle’s charisma and charm and loyalty and people-pleasing nature all make people like him more. He’s obnoxious and irresponsible and reckless and instigatory and has about a billion double standards that are shitty as fuck, but kyle tries to make friends and is passionate enough to win people to his side, so people tend to not acknowledge kyle’s shitty behavior as much when he’s an asshole to austin. They're easily swayed by the ‘he was an asshole and had it coming. Besides, we’re cousins so it’s fine’ argument. He knows Kyle has his ‘good’ sides, but he also is aware of kyle’s negatives, sometimes seemingly more so than kyle is. Which makes the ‘austin’s not trying’ conclusion kyle reaches even worse because austin’s trying specifically to keep his more negative sides on lock, like his bad temper. Kyle lets that shit run free and then has the nerve to criticize austin for not trying?? And I don’t think austin would be annoyed in any cases where mel and micha befriend kyle. Again, he expects that, and while mel and micha are his best friends, he doesn’t fully see them as such and certainly not in a ‘tehy’re /my/ friends, you can’t have them’ way. They’re adults, if they want to befriend kyle great. Maybe they can distract him so he stops trying to hang out with austin all the time, that’d be nice. But austin probably mentioning that to mel when she and kyle are first going to meet. She’s an adult and can choose her own friends but kyle is (“objectively” austin says which he isn’t but to austin he is) terrible and she should have all the information and understand how fucking annoying kyle is sometimes before she meets him. Of course he’s bad at clearly listing all the reasons why with examples, and he complains about everything, so it probably comes off as a ‘oh he’s just annoyed because kyle’s all energetic and fun and austin hates fun’ thing. 

But then kyle reveals the shitty child he is underneath and it turns out austin was actually somewhat right? I also think, if mel was confronted by just how aggressively hurtful kyle can be in his worse moods, that’d surprisingly not be an ‘I told you so’ moment from austin (provided she didn’t make a huge deal of dismissing any early comments he made. If she did, she’d get a little ‘i told you so’ then). Because again, people being charmed by kyle happens all the fucking time, it’s not their fault they made a shitty friend. If he wasn’t asocial and totally aware of how bad to be around kyle can be, he’d probably like him more too. It’s not an ‘i told you so’ thing at this point, it’s just a ‘finally someone else sees what a jerk he can be sometimes thank god. Unfortunate it was from him messing things up again but silver linings and all that’. Austin that’s a silver lining for you, not for mel, cmon. Though on the other hand, It might be an ‘i told you so’ at /kyle/. Mel didn’t do anything wrong by befriending him, but austin’d absolutely use this as a ‘hey, get off your high fucking horse and acknowledge that you’re a piece of shit!’ thing which is relatively ironic coming from austin. I mean, just because austin’s trying doesn’t make him any less of a piece of shit too, since he doesn’t actually regret a lot of the hurtful things he does to people and, as mentioned with the cami thing, he’s willing to do hurtful things if he feels they’re necessary to his best interests, he just also doesn’t pretend like they don’t exist. Austin thinks the positives of his personality outweigh the bad, sure, but he still has some bad he knows about and tries to handle and he’s also fully aware not everyone would view all those positives as positive. He knows he has a bad temper so he avoids things that irritate him and 90% of the time it’s /kyle/ pushing him into those situations that set him off. Kyle should recognize by now how aggressive he himself gets when defensive, how much he can hurt people, but does he try to avoid those cases? No, of course not. That would take being responsible and mature! Half the time, kyle purposefully tries to provoke people as some self-destruction attempt that he doesn’t care about dragging someone else down with him on.

I think i’ve mentioned before that this is why i prefer austin to kyle despite, weighing the pros and cons of their personalities, how kyle would more likely be the ‘better’ person than austin is. Kyle has a lot more pros and they are to a far higher extreme, but the negatives are equallly as low and he ignores them completely. Refuses to acknowledge them, very irresponsible about that. Even when called out, he gets dismissive or instigatory or that ‘can’t you take a joke’ bullshit that I think I still hate most about his personality. Austin is a dick but he’s usually aware of it, knows he’s not a total victim in life. He’s more responsible and part of that is accepting bad behavior in oneself. Changing bad behavior is usually the best option, but neither boy does that. Austin at least accepts and acknowledges it and tries not to go out of his way to let it affect others. He’s polite in most cases if he has to socialize with someone, and besides that he does try to stay on his own most of the time. That’s also, again, the asocialness, but he sees it as a win win for everyone. I’m going to be annoyed by them, they probably won’t appreciate me, it’s best we keep to ourselves. Kyle hides it before springing it on someone and, again, I know that’s not 100% his fault, it’s very much a side effect of his childhood and a nasty combination of disorders he’s struggling to deal with, but that doesn’t make it 0% his fault either. Cool motive, still murder, except not murder of course, just being an asshole, but i still very much like that phrase for that kinda thing. It’s great that he has a reason to explain why he feels the need to behave like that, but he’s not unaware. It may feel hard or impossible not to choose that option, like, say, staying up late again for 2 weeks in a row when I definitely know I need more than ~5 hours of sleep a night- but that’s still me failing to go to sleep on time. i might have to fight myself on it some nights, but i’m still making that choice, y’know? 

In most au’s, someone points it out to him at some point, and he refuses to change that bad behavior and worse, it’s often times not even a ‘i’m trying but I can’t’ situation, he just doesn’t want to acknowledge another flaw of his and that is. That’s why he drives me up a fucking wall sometimes. He always tries to portray himself as super friendly and understanding and accepting and good, he tries so hard to be good. like i said, when he cares, it’s so much and over the top and to the point of sacrificing at a moment’s notice, but he can get a holier than thou mentality on morals and yet either isn’t aware enough or just doesn't care to see both the attempts other may make using methods he’s not used to as well as how necessary it is to address and try to change his own major and friendship-threatening flaws. I have my own high standards for others that I myself don’t meet, but I don’t fuck over people who don’t meet those standards either, y’know? I go ‘maybe we’re both shit’ and I move on with my day. He’s literally the ‘when he’s good he’s great’ line except instead it ends with ‘but when he’s bad i wanna kick his fucking ass’