#edited because transmisogyny does affect me but i will never experience it the same way as real women

[genkishoujo]

Not hating men girl. Trans men in specific. I am a nonbinary lesbian saying this. Stay tf out of trans intercommunity politics

Men being misogynistic is my problem. Misogyny hurts me as much as it hurts my sisters. As someone who has self identified as a nb lesbian anonymously I would expect you to understand that. If my posting hurts your ego that much then block me. Youre wasting valuable inbox space for real victims and people I actually care about (which does include cis and trans men. For the record. But that probably doesnt matter to you as much as coming into my inbox and complaining).

[scriptlgbt]

Question

[submitted by anonymous, format edited for ease of reading and answering, hope that’s cool]

I have this story where my bi protagonist is involved in a “love triangle” between a bi AMAB non-binary individual (let’s call them Max) and a lesbian (let’s call her Kay). The conclusion of Max and Kay liking the same person (the protag, let’s call her Shondra) is a polyam relationship: i want to get rid of the love triangle trope and make it healthy where Shondra doesn’t “have to pick one or the other” or “break one heart, keep the other.” 

Max and Kay grew up together, best friends, and were pretty much the others’ support system involving their gender and sexualities when their parents didn’t offer support. 

Basically I have multiple questions on how to portray a relationship this way properly. 

1. Is it ok to have Kay and Max, a pair who pretty much grew up as best friends, end up in a relationship with the same person, even though Max is an AMAB non-binary person? 

2. Would that make Kay still a lesbian and not, say, bi because she’s in a [mainly platonic] relationship with a non-binary individual? 

I’m worried people could take it the wrong way somehow. Max and Kay love Shondra romantically, but see each other as very close, platonic partners. 

3. Are there any things to avoid? 

4. Another question I have: is it okay to name my non-binary character a typically “gendered” name like Anthony or Margaret, or does their name have to be more gender neutral? 

(I’m a bi girl and I’m still learning, so if I used improper terminology, I apologize! Please inform me.)

Answers

1. Yeah I think this is totally fine! Nonbinary folks often end up with folks with all sorts of orientation identities and birth assignment usually has little to no impact. (Transmisogyny is probably the biggest part of things that affect it.)

2. Again, totally fine! I know nonbinary lesbians, and lesbians who are dating nonbinary people. Some folks have mixed feelings about it and there’s also nonbinary folks who might feel uncomfortable with it. In my experience, that isn’t usually lost on the lesbian folks who are dating the nonbinary person.

Personally I’ve dated 2 (or 3? idk people have fluidity and different label preferences in time) lesbians. If I remember right, when we started dating, all of them actually talked to me about it to see how I felt and for them to explain how their specific identity works, and why. The definitions they personally had (adding in others from others I know but did not date) for lesbian, and how their relationship with it worked was kind of like this

“Calling myself a lesbian is my way to tell men specifically that I am not interested.”

“I identify with the lesbian community and have in the past, but my identity is more complicated”

“the ratio of the people I am attracted to leans heavily toward women for the most part”

“I haven’t encountered enough nonbinary people to know how my orientation incorporates them on a wider scale, but I know I definitely like you specifically”

“gender doesn’t actually play into my sexual orientation all that much, but I’d rather date [these specific people or genders]”

“I have always been assumed to be a lesbian by others and never corrected them or felt the need to before, and never really questioned the technicalities of my identity until recently when I’ve started learning about other identities and relationship types”

But also it seems like Max and Kay are more in a QPP[1] or metamour[2] situation than a relationship based on attraction to one another (unless it’s alterous attraction[3]). In which case, there’s folks in dynamics like this all the time that don’t have seemingly compatible orientations. (It’s definitely a tangent, but if you want to learn more about the history of that kind of thing, you can google “lavender marriage”)

3. I can’t think of anything to suggest you to avoid that is anything unique to this situation. Most of the regular things I would say would be to just make sure that you’ve got a good idea of what healthy relationships look like in general in order to depict that, including and especially polyamorous relationships. I guess I’d suggest to include conversations about what people are comfortable with and how they feel about the dynamic, having check-ins and things like consent (even just for things like hand-holding) and whatnot discussed. Depicting compersion[4] in polyamorous relationships is something I think is also pretty under-repped.

4. Yes this is totally fine! Nonbinary folks have all sorts of names.

- mod nat

footnotes/definitions

[1] QPP = Queer/Quasi Platonic Relationship

[2] Metamour = a person your partner is in a relationship with (as well as you)

[3] Alterous attraction = attraction that is based just on wanting to have a close relationship with someone that isn’t inherently sexual, romantic, aesthetic, sensual in nature but it can include those things.

[4] Compersion = specifically joy you experience from another person’s joy

[nonbinary-support]

hey I'm not sure how to tell my family that I want top surgery, I'm nb and out but I just don't know how to bring it up

EDIT: it was brought to my attention that i assumed anon mean top surgery to create a flat chest rather than augmentation and i absolutely did and that was really shitty, i’m sorry. i’ve added examples for augmentation, but please keep in mind i do not experience transmisogyny and this isn’t a procedure i would be having or dealing with how to explain it to others. if anyone on this side of things would like to add on, PLEASE do!!

hey! yeah this is a super weird + tough topic to bring up and discuss.

do you have one family member you’re closer to than others? or that would be easier to discuss these kinds of things with? that’s always where i start.

even if you dont, i find it helpful to start wil one person, form that base, and then its not totally as scary when you tell the rest all together bc you know theyre there, they know, and maybe can even help you out and back you up.

as for actually going about it. there is gonna be a point where you just need to spit it out and its scary and awkward as hell. but you can start by easing into it saying things like. hey you know how some ppl transition all different types of ways. or, you know how i have dysphoria? 

if they dont know you have dysphoria (this is assuming you do. if you dont, ignore this :P) it might be easier to start with that. you can talk about you hey you know sometimes i feel weird with my body, like it should be different and it really gets me down and makes it hard to function. etc/whatever ur experience is

honestly talking about your feelings helps so much bc it helps them realize this is not some rash phase thing but that there are feelings behind this that warrant it. talk abt dyphoria/a disconnect with ur body/how it feels to not have a flat chest/to not have breasts/the desire/etc

for making your chest flat, you can say that some people get top surgery which is like a (ok just a warning im going to use the medical term for top surgery which is applied towards cis women) mastectomy, except its to make your chest look naturally flat. you have been thinking about this for a while and you know it is what would really help you and is something you need. 

for augmentation, that same last part, but it is also a more commonly done and known about procedure, so you will have less explaining/teaching to do of what the procedure actually entails. you can talk about dysphoria and/or the desire/need to have breasts and how that manifest for you like i talked about earlier, but you can also go at it from a non-purely physical standpoint.

you can talk about how maybe you already use breast forms, so you know this is something you want and you much prefer how you look in clothes with breasts to without (if applicable, you can add in the dysphoria again from being in clothing with a flat chest) you can also talk about how, if you’re wearing “women’s” clothing, most, like all, is made to accommodate breasts and not having them makes it very hard to find flattering clothing. this would allow you a wider range of clothing to choose from, allowing you again to possibly alleviate dysphoria from being able to wear the type of clothes you want to in the first place!

for a flat chest, the same goes in terms of binding. if you already bind, that offers “evidence” to them that you know what you look like with a flat chest and this is something you really want. you can talk about the dangers of binding that are inevitable, even when doing so properly. you can talk about what you already might experience, back/rib pain, trouble breathing, etc. too, you can also talk about binding under clothes and how it often does not give you as flat a chest as you would naturally have and the dysphoria possibly left over from that, as well as having to choose clothing based on how well it hides your chest/binder (material, thickness/weave, cut/looser, etc)

for flat chests, offering to show pictures can help bc often the picture they create in their mind is only from what theyve seen of mastectomies for cancer patients and they picture some weird scary mutilated image of their child/sibling/whatever (this is not at all to say that is what the chests of cancer survivors look like. this is to say they often only have that image so they use that as a base (inaccurate) and then turn that into what they perceive to be that gross Your Mutilating Ur Body cis trope)

but also, if they are not ready to see pictures, do. not. show. them. if they are not comfortable with u being trans already, this will make things worse. it can set you back a lot and that sucks but sometimes you just need to do whats gonna be best for you.

something that apparently really helped my mom was mentioning that worst case scenario, i could always get implants. of course, for me, this was and is never something that would be right for me or even be a consideration, but i needed her on my side and a parents thought is always What If You Change Your Mind. easing their worries helps your case even if it goes against you.

this goes for breast augmentation too, where you can say the same thing that you could always get them removed. you have the added benefit in terms of scars of being able to say that they tend to not be very noticeable or look different from a cis person’s augmentation. here, again, you can also show pictures. too, if theyre not ready to think of you as someone with breasts, don’t show them, because they will likely let that get in the way of letting you (if you need their permission) have surgery, and it will just affect their judgment anyway.

if they are okay with it though, you may even choose to show them cis and trans after pictures to show that it is not that different in case they are worried if you were ever stealth and someone “finding out” from your scars... idk. but pictures in general may very well be able to work in your favor because they can see how unobtrusive and natural the end result and scars typically are.

also, i would mention the size and show after pictures of ppl w/ that size and a similar body type to yours, and let them know, if applicable, that you are not going “ginormous” like many cis people first seem to think, idk why. that you just want natural breasts. and if you dont, thats absolutely your choice, but it may not be the best idea to tell them how precisely large you plan on going, though maybe a rough idea isnt such a bad idea so theyre not shocked and have time to picture you this way and become more comfortable with the idea of surgery, but yeah if you want large breasts, as in larger than typical or expected for your body type, they may see that as less "okay” and use that as an excuse to invalidate you/your needs.

i hope this was somewhat helpful. if you need anything more, feel free to msg us again :)

-emma