#eboue

[allow-me-to-speak]

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

I kinda think that neither Thom or Liandrin will make it out of the season finale alive because, like Loial, both have virtually nothing to do for the rest of the series after this point. Which is also why I think Siuan won't die because she still has an important role to play. Moiraine's fate though will be more ambiguous.

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

I’m glad they just broke nynaeve’s block now at the end of s3 after making her struggle with it more than she did in the books instead of waiting till like s5 or whenever they adapt the rest of a crown of swords, now there’s gonna be a real contrast between blocked Nynaeve and so-op-it’s-funny Nynaeve.

[markantonys]

book 1: mat goes on a homoerotic roadtrip with rand

book 2: mat goes on a second homoerotic roadtrip with rand

book 3: mat goes on a heteroerotic roadtrip to save elayne's life, whilst having occasional homoerotic thoughts about rand

book 4: mat goes on a third homoerotic roadtrip with rand

book 5: mat finishes up his third homoerotic roadtrip with rand

book 6: mat prepares for a polyerotic roadtrip with rand's girlfriends, at rand's request

book 7: mat goes on a polyerotic roadtrip with rand's girlfriends

conclusion: Put Mat In The Polycule, So Help Me God

[squirrelwrangler]

My delusion is thinking that of course the show is going to have at least one episode where Nynaeve and Elayne have to travel via hiding out in the circus. Okay. I will be reasonable. They will run into Valen Luca, and I will get at least one humor scene of him hitting on Nynaeve.

[postcard-from-the-past]

Félix Eboué Square Paris

French vintage postcard

[tater-tots-last-of-the-romanovs]

Having some Thoughts about the WOT books.

[rogue-rook]

wheel takes podcast threw a little party this week when they found out what tylin's sole singular appearance in crossroads of twilight is, ya know, robby j's apology to us for subjecting mat to that storyline, so now I'm chewing my fingers off with anxiety over not knowing if the show is gonna do that whole mess or just cut it

[iliiuan]

...............are these

...............are these the hills? The ones with oddly rectilinear shapes? That surrounded The Farm in Ebou Dar? You know, where they used The Bowl of the Winds?

downside: going to have to include a picture of the Giza pyramids in the slides for the lecture upside: i get to give people a crash course in why perspective matters in two frames, because

followed by

is such a funny sequence

[toastandjamie]

Or Mat’s internal monologue throughout books 6-9

[butterflydm]

WoT 3x06 Deep Dive (additional book spoilers)

spoilers through 3x06 of the show and A Memory of Light for the books (final book).

Everything that the show has been saying about the Dark Oaths that are sworn to the Dark One by regular people are, I'm pretty sure, a show-only situation. In the books, the Black Ajah swear oaths to the Dark One on the Oath Rod (replacing their old Oaths) and it's implied that part of the reason for that is so that they'll keep their 'ageless Aes Sedai' face. But regular old darkfriends are just stuck in it because of either their own character and choices, or good ol' sunk-cost fallacy. This change in the show does mean that it's much harder for a Darkfriend to choose to leave the Shadow, and that trapping a person into it young leaves them with few options.

It also makes it a stronger metaphor for extremist religious organizations which, since Rafe grew up in the Mormon church (as we learned on the 'making of' for s1&2 during the fan global event), I feel like was probably not a coincidence. "If you leave us, you lose your chance at eternal life" is a pretty big refrain in a lot of those high-control religions. We have three high-control groups in Wheel of Time -- darkfriends, the Whitecloaks, and the Seanchan. We've seen youth recruitment in both the darkfriends and the Whitecloaks; and the Seanchan system is embedded deeply into their culture.

The show choosing to have Elayne be the character to keep bringing the focus back to the danger that the collar poses to Rand feels like subconscious seed-planting on the part of the show. She mentions Rand to her mom ("I healed the Dragon Reborn") and now she keeps making sure that the danger to Rand is forefronted when they're talking about their mission here in Tanchico.

Tanchico also continues to feel like a mix of book!Ebou Dar and book!Tanchico, and we eat away at another Ebou Dar thing (Mat and Elayne are clearly getting along much better at the end of this episode than they were when they were trapped together on a boat during 3x05).

So, going over that list again, of the Ebou Dar things we have lost:

Renna is dead.

Seta is dead.

Suroth is dead.

Jaichaim Carridan is dead.

Aviendha and Elayne have already bonded over Aiel culture, which is their main arc together in Ebou Dar in the books.

Mat and Elayne have already bonded, with Mat realizing that actually she can be a lot of fun. Mat and Elayne having an enemies-to-friends arc was their main story in the Ebou Dar section of the plotline.

It feels like Egeanin's entrance from the books (where Elayne believes that she's being kidnapped for being the Daughter-Heir, though it's not a correct assumption in that case) was given to Thom's reintroduction here, with him stepping in to help Elayne out of a tight spot, so if they wanted to introduce Egeanin, it would need to be in a different way

Tanchico being given vibes similar to the Rahad area of Ebou Dar in the books

Now could they still do some of Ebou Dar with cutting all of this out? Yes. We still have Tylin (ugh), we could introduce Bethamin and give her all of Renna & Seta's stuff, we could do the Seanchan invasion with Tuon and Semirhage, and we could do the Bowl of the Winds. So this might be more about streamlining Ebou Dar into one or two episodes as opposed to cutting it out entirely. We will see! (if we get renewed for enough seasons)

In addition to doing some more Ebou Dar stuff, we also touch on Elayne's 'circus arc' from the books by how hard she embraces going undercover here, and we get a bit of the "gleeman's apprentice" stuff that Mat & Rand got to do with Thom in book 1, plus the idea of Thom having a female apprentice (though obviously with very different and a non-sexual context than the books had), plus the scene of Elayne singing on stage pulls at least one line from the books as well.

The show also has chosen to prioritize Min getting bonding time first with Mat, and now with Nynaeve, which I think is an indicator as to where they plan to take Min's character in the future. Bonding with Mat to improve their relationship for the Seanchan storyline at the very end. Bonding with Nynaeve improves the potential time in the future when the two of them are the ones watching Rand spiral down further into isolation and darkness, and trying to help him (basically taking what they're trying to do for Mat here, and applying it to Rand).

And so it continues to be interesting that we have not gotten any Min and Elayne bonding time. I do think that it makes sense to lean away from Min being in the polycule if they are still doing Min's Seanchan-ending from the books, because her being in the Seanchan empire while the others are all in Andor does kinda make it feel like she got the raw end of the deal after the epilogue ends (and I don't think the show will make Rand a deadbeat dad at the end, like the epilogue does - they've shown his affection for children and the desire for a simple life with his loved ones too strongly).

We might get some Min-Elayne bonding in 3x08, but it's pretty packed and I feel like we're more likely to get Min and Nynaeve helping Mat with his memories, while Elayne has a moment with Thom where she remembers him from her mother's court, so I feel like an Elayne-Thom and Mat-Min-Nynaeve split may be more likely for the events of 3x08. I think there might even be a shot of Elayne & Thom running from some trouble together in one of the trailers. Plus, we didn't get any initial reaction from Min when she was introduced to Elayne -- she basically just seemed willing to vibe along with whatever Mat's feelings about Elayne were.

We also get Min lying about one of her viewings in this scene! Very exciting for me! She never does this in the books and I kept wanting her to (especially after she hooks up with Tuon -- like, why are you so devoted to sharing every detail of every person's future with the empress of the Seanchan Empire? why don't you just LIE to her? well, this Min would just lie to Tuon and it makes me like her so much more).

So, Egwene's scene with the Wise Ones, where they call her out on lying to them: the way Egwene reacts here very much fits show!Egwene's behavior as a whole.

I saw people saying after 3x05 how good it was to see Egwene embracing Aiel culture and that is... not what I saw in her at all during 3x05, and this episode confirms that reading for me.

It's Rand who has embraced the Aiel culture much more than Egwene has. She has been interested in learning how to access her power through the Wise Ones' teaching so that she can stop what's happening to her in her dreams, so in this episode, it is Rand that we saw genuinely interacting with the concepts of ji and toh, while Egwene brushes off her lying to the Wise Ones as not important.

This does feel like a deliberate change that the show has made, but very much in line with also not having Egwene be all "the White Tower is my home" after only having been there a handful of months, the way that she is in the books. Show!Egwene considers herself loyal "to the Light" -- not to the Aes Sedai, not to the Wise Ones, not to Rand. And I do feel like that fits her overall story arc better, tbh.

It also makes sense to give the "acclimates to the Aiel culture" storyline to Rand instead of to Egwene, since it's more relevant to him and to his future. It's clear that the show is leaning more into Rand being curious and interested in his Aiel heritage, including having the walk through the columns affect him more deeply than it does in the books.

In 3x01, there were book fans who felt like the show needed to explain why Egwene didn't want to stay in the White Tower but show!Egwene never developed that fast affection & loyalty for the Tower that book!Egwene did, so no explanation was needed for me (and show-onlys were all expecting her to walk out on Siuan and were completely unsurprised by her attitude towards the Tower, from what I saw).

In retrospect, not developing Egwene and Aviendha's friendship feels like an early sign of this decision to make Egwene embracing the Wise Ones' teaching her as more of a pragmatic decision. It's Elayne and Rand, Aviendha's two future love interests, who are interested and invested in learning more about Aiel culture, while Egwene has her own separate path to focus on.

Given the limited time that the show has, it's a choice that makes sense, even if it does contribute to Egwene not having any friends in the Waste storyline (though that might have been a feature and not a bug for the plotting of the season -- much like how I feel like Mat was removed from Rand's plotline more to isolate Rand away from any of his close friends than for anything vital that Mat has needed to do in Tanchico, Egwene not being close friends with Aviendha might have been a narrative decision to help keep Egwene emotionally isolated while on this journey - now I personally think keeping Egwene so emotionally isolated hurt what the show was going for with the Randgwene break-up but... it is what it is).

And the show choosing to have the Wise Ones care more about Rand aligning with the Aiel than Egwene embracing their culture also makes sense.

(of course, they could also choose to have Egwene pivot and become "Aiel-hearted" later on, but as of what we've gotten so far, there isn't any groundwork laid for it yet, and since Egwene's storyline takes her away from the Aiel in the relative near future, I'm not sure that there's any long-term gain from them doing that storyline with her when it seems like there's a greater return in doing it with Rand)

Something I mentioned in the show spoilers only post is that we didn't get any breaks in Egwene's mask to show us the vulnerable woman underneath who is genuinely struggling with the idea that Rand might go mad -- and it reminded me of that being a major issue that I had with a book character. That's one of the reasons that Tuon falls so flat for me in the books -- her mask never falters, not even in her own PoV chapters. And that was kinda the issue that I've been having with Egwene re: her relationship with Rand this season.

Maybe this is them leaning on their "unbreakable" characterization of Egwene, but I feel like we really needed a moment of vulnerability from her earlier this season specifically on the topic of Rand and madness. Before we get her flat-out accusing him of having already gone mad in 3x06. We needed something before that. Or I did, anyway. As it was, she went from zero to a hundred real damn fast. I am hoping that we are finally let more into her emotional conflicts in 3x08, though I'm sure time will be tight.

During Rand and Moiraine's talk, when I closed my eyes and just listened, I'm pretty sure I hear a whispered "Ilyena" which was so exciting! I did not catch that on my first viewing at all. So if Rand is starting to have the beginnings of memories about Ilyena, that's another piece to throw into the pot of "things that were likely affecting Rand's behavior during the Randgwene break-up scene". Also -- the first whispers of Ilyena coming the day after he kisses Lanfear (the first time he kisses her knowing that she's Lanfear and having seen her as Mierin)... that is delicious. I don't think LTT approved of the kiss, you guys.

As for what the change in Faile's backstory does to Deira Bashere... similar to how I felt about the changes to Abell Cauthon, it literally doesn't matter to me. Minor characters exist to bring depth and flavor to more important characters. Deira needs to be a mother that is appropriate for show!Faile and how she interacts with the world, just like Abell and Natti needed to be the parents that were appropriate for show!Mat and how he interacts with the world. Bringing Faile to life and making her a good fit for Perrin is much more important than trying to stay true to book!Deira's characterization.

Theory about Melindhra: she is going to free Sammael from whatever captivity that Rand has placed him in during 3x08 (because I don't think Sammael is dead). It also seems likely that Sammael is the one who put the dragons on Couladin's arms, since he's working with the Shaido in this episode. This may mean that Asmodean is out entirely, or he may still be in but in a different kind of teaching role. We might get either Taimodean or Taimandred in s4. Could go either way! Depends on how long-term a baddie that Sammael is, possibly.

Relatively shorter post this time, since I was able to say most of what I needed to say in the show spoilers only post.

[queen-of-andor]

The discourse about Moraine's hat reminds me of Mat having opinions on how Nynaeve and Elayne dressed ( hats included) in Ebou Dar:

Our boy, Mat the fashionista and expert on hats would also share his opinion on Moraine's new hat.

[iliiuan]

Ebou Dari marriage knife vibes

18th century daggers from India and Turkey

[luxolin]

ok the scene with Elayne, Aviendha, and Birgitte escaping the farm and nuking the Seanchan is EXACTLY what I've been missing from them since the last book. Being stuck in Ebou Dar with one goal that everyone knew they couldn't complete until the end of the book was severely affecting how capable they all appeared to be. So it's nice to see Elayne back on her bullshit, pulling complex magical moves through sheer grit and determination. Plus a bit of homoerotic tension thrown in for good measure. Truly thriving.

[wheelofmeta]

An interesting thing I'm kind of sad Robert Jordan didn't do is have Berelain, instead of going with Perrin and then having the nonsense that is the love triangle plotline with him and Faile, is have it be she goes with Mat to get Elayne/end up in the Ebou Dar plotline.

Berelain in particular involved in Ebou Dar would get interesting, both in the context of her interacting with Tyelin (both rulers of weak nations, but Berelain arguably in a much stronger position due to her connection to Rand versus Altara's isolation at large at that point). On top of that, if say, Berelain and Mat are involved does Tyelin still target Mat? Or does she leave be since Berelain is the ruler of another country? If she's kept there post-Seanchan attack (say she misses the Traveling ala Mat for some reason, such as having left to run an errand and mistimed things), her and Tuon interacting (both claiming ancestry from Hawkwing). To do this it would make most sense to make the love triangle plotline a matter of Berelain/Mat/Tuon rather than the canon situation, but that could get interesting.

Berelain is a city-state rule who is an ally of the Dragon Reborn and respected by him, who claims to be descended from Hawkwing, and makes use of an Aes Sedai advisor. Tuon is the heiress to a continent spanning empire (and eventual Empress) who is an enemy of Rand's, and owns a former Aes Sedai damane. If Mat's say, already in a relationship/getting somewhere with Berelain, but also has the prophesy with Tuon hanging over his head, how does that go? Or if RJ had decided on this sort of thing, would he have made the prophesy more ambiguous to make Mat be guessing which it's supposed to be about? Would it have still be the canon one and Mat's reluctant/unwilling to involve himself with Berelain as a result?

Also Mat has his own connection to Hawkwing due to being the initial Hornsounder and the way it feels at times like Hawkwing and a past incarnation of Mat's probably lead opposing armies at least some point. That connection is the one that Tuon picks up on rather than Mat's connection to Rand, which always amused me since Mat does arguably have a 'oh fuck' reaction to both questions but she misreads him on the Rand one.

(Honestly it's kind of impressive at no point during the traveling with the show arc did anyone slip up and allow Tuon to realize Mat and Rand do know each other)

It would have been super interesting to see how Tuon would have reacted to Berelain, and it's a genuine pity that in canon we don't get to see how she or the major Seanchan nobility react to her (yes she does interact with some Seanchan at one point but that's left sort of just with a comment and no further which I feel was a waste). Would they take offense and call her a liar? Or would they be more ambivalent/leery of doing that since it's not impossible? It's certainly unlikely, but not impossible (as is one can easily make the claim that there's no reason anyone in the Westlands should trust the Seanchan claims because it had been a thousand years and the reality is even if the Seanchan empire started out ruled by a member of Hawkwing's family, that specific family line could have died out). They may decide she's a liar since it's more politically valuable (if they agree she is, then it causes some issues for the Seanchan invasion justification) but there also is the possibility they wouldn't.