#double date for timkon and Stephcass

[franollie]

stephcass&timkon double dates where the dynamic is this:

[yurianthrax]

stephcass isn't the cute quirky lesbian side offering to timkon so u can write double date fanfics or whatever. like its not The Normal Femslash Ship actually. they are mentally ill insane pathological freaks i fear. i wouldnt last a day in their heads

[gwynerso]

so, I was thinking about cute things I could commission of the bat fam (and friends) for the holiday period and I had a list together and I was REALLY proud of it. Then I realised. I forgot Jason Todd. 

[ectonurites]

stephcass 🤝 timkon

[batfam-adventures]

(Commentary and thoughts on the problem with certain anti tags and frankly anti tags in general, be warned)

I'm going to be honest, there is nothing that infuriates me more than those who attack a ship, or a character as abusive for the reason of banter, poor writing verging on character assassination or astonishing reasons as one character being created to be a beard for the other.

To give an example, the TimSteph ship has attracted a lot of hate recently because apparently one of the two is abusive towards the other (mostly Steph).

Now, I'm not against preferring another ship to that one, such as StephCass or TimKon, or feeling that Steph has basically had a lot of her agency taken away recently, reducing her to just Tim's girlfriend and that causing people to distance themselves from the relationship, those are all fair enough reasons to not really like the ship. Even feeling like there is no chemistry is a reason, that I disagree with, but can respect.

What I can't respect are some of the reasons given for hating the ship.

To give an example, one tumblr outright stated that part of the reason (though not all of it) they hated Steph was because she was created by a homophobe (Chuck Dixon who IS conservative at the very least) to serve as beard for Tim.

Ignoring for a second that Tim is explicity sexually attracted to women (though considering the run that made that clearest was FabNic's version of Red Robin, I can understand not knowing about it), Steph was originally created to be a one-off character, it was fan popularity that caused her to return AND become a love interest for Tim. Even ignoring that, Tim was dating another girl named Arriana, which didn't work out for various reasons, the least of which was his constant absences to perform his duties as Robin.

Speaking of FabNic, it was his run as writer for Robin that is most often brought up when giving reasons to hate Steph and call her abusive. A run that was basically a rush job, when Dixon left DC again for unrelated reasons, where FabNic proceeded to write Steph hire Scarab of all people to fight Tim non-lethally after promising Batman to make him better. I'm going to be honest, I hated the idea of this to begin with, but someone pointed out how stupidly out of character Steph hiring Scarab was given that A) she would definitely not have the contacts to pull it off, and B) Scarab was the entire reason Steph got fired as Robin, resulting in a lot of trauma for her and I have to agree.

Combined with Steph being portrayed as unusually incompetent and her motivations being glossed over and it really reads like either A) FabNic had a vendetta against her character, meaning her character was hurt again almost immediately after being finally getting a break and having her incredibly spiteful death retconned or B) he was in such a rush due to being brought in to write the final arc of Robin in a hurry when Dixon left, that he didn't think his ideas through, and just wanted to get rid of Tim's supporting cast quickly and finish things up for the next writer to have a clean slate, causing him to write that mess of an arc.

To anyone unfamiliar with FabNic's work, the exact same thing happened in Red Robin when the Nu52 was about to happen, so he ended up butchering an entire arc he had planned, Tim's character suffering from an abrupt shift in coldness again when he was getting better and left the series on a frankly unsatisfying cliffhanger. So, I can completely see that as being what happened.

Now as for those who say that Steph's banter with Tim is cruel and abusive. This is something he canonically said very shortly before their relationship started.

So Tim definitely gave as good as he got.

Though this is nothing to what he once said to his first girlfriend, Arianna.

Not that I believe for a second Tim is actually sexist, but his banter can be unusually and unintentionally aggressive at times.

Now I'm not going to say a word about most of Yost's Red Robin run, but what helps is that Tim is not being portrayed as being in the right with many of his actions and gets called out as such, plus he was written pretty clearly to be in a mentally bad place.

Otherwise I and probably a lot of Tim's fans, hate the Batman jr. Character arc every writer (but Dixon ironically) seemed to have fixated on him having, making him become positively humourless for quite a while (especially in Teen Titans, but to be honest there are many fans of the YJ team who hated that run.) Which basically started with Steph and his dad's deaths by the way.

I'm not going to deny Tim and Steph had their fair share of drama before War Games, most notably the power imbalance caused by Tim knowing Steph's name, but being unable (yes, unable) to give her his. Tim had a reason for not telling Steph, Bruce making him promise not to, and he kept that promise even with the YJ team, and even made it clear that Steph couldn't know if they entered a relationship. That's all fair enough, even if Tim had a nasty habit of reminding Steph he knew her name while they were out in the open, putting her identity at risk and knew she hated it.

The stalking was caused when Tim implied he personally knew a girl they rescued, causing Steph to realise just how unbalanced their relationship was, since Tim could be cheating on her without her knowing due to the double life (and had in fact done so to his previous girlfriend Arianna, with Steph).

Which lets be honest, is also completely understandable as their relationship couldn't work long-term without it being equal knowledgewise.

Think about it, you're in a relationship with someone who refuses to tell you his real name, you may be able to recognise him without his mask on, but have no idea he goes to the same school as you since he makes sure to avoid you while simultaneously keeping an eye on you.

Tim himself realised this, since when Batman leaked his secret without his permission, he eventually made it clear he didn't blame Steph and that he should have been open with her when it began to trouble her.

As for Steph coming on to him when he had a girlfriend and wasn't interested, well this is what caused her to crush on him...

He had just been traumatised by being trapped underground with Cluemaster (brrr.) So kissing her in relief when he had a girlfriend was understandable, but it's also understandable that Steph thought he was interested in her especially since he never mentioned a girlfriend.

Amd Tim clearly cared for her in some way regardless judging from this page when Steph was kidnapped a few issues later.

As for Steph only being in love with Robin... the problem is that Steph made it clear once that she didn't care if Tim quit and she'd love him all the same.

So, no, I don't think Tim and Steph was an abusive ship, it might not be your cup of tea, but it's certainly not abusive, especially when written by a writer who isn't being rushed or got a lot on his plate.

As a side-note, it's worth noting that due to how the Tumblr Search Engine works, people not looking for Anti Tags, and instead quite the opposite, still end up finding them on occassion, so yes, they have a right to be annoyed and complain in private conversations.

I'm sorry if this devolved into a rant, but many anti threads have a nasty habit of focusing only on the bad, even when that bad isn't consistent characterisation. Whether we like the Character or not, we need to remember that having so many writers means that the Character will be screwed up occasionally. How many times has Batman learn not to be a jerk only to return to be a jerk almost immediately? How many times has Green Arrow gotten his act together only for another writer to have him return to cheating on Black Canary again?

We have to concede that any character can be screwed up by the wrong writer and we shouldn't hold that against them, especially when the stuff we don't like doesn't consistently happen.

[unknownunseenunheard]

TimKon going on a double date with StephCass would be great, but DC doesn’t have the range

[ectonurites]

Stephcass timkon double date

yes exactly

i need to draw those four together again djdhdhdh i miss them…