#don't get me wrong the art is beautiful but WE NEED MORE SHIPS

[vomitoderatas]

The pain of not finding art of ships other than Beetlebabes in the Beetlejuice fandom.............

GIVE ME MORE BEETLANDS AND BEETLEBOOONEEES

[spindlewoed]

You have to understand. I don't "ship" Harry with the smoker on the balcony, I think whatever they have going on canonically is way funnier and touching than anything anyone could come up with.

There is so much within the dynamic itself. It’s a middle aged man and a younger man who are nothing alike and everything like each other. It’s the smoker being the person that kickstarts Harry’s sexuality journey anew, seeing Harry’s fascination with him and being amused by it because (aside from Harry being probably the first man in a while who’s managed to leave him dumbfounded in a positive way) the smoker *knows* what’s happening in Harry’s mind and as he puts it, it’s beautiful.

Don't get me wrong, the mutual attraction is there. The smoker flirts with Harry every other two lines (girl why the fuck are you flirting with a cop you're insane. I'm obsessed with you) yet makes fun of him in the same breath while Harry is absolutely clueless the whole time because he's too busy staring at his abs. Couldn't come up with anything funnier if I tried.

I love this high drama check, this is exaclty what it feels like to speak to clueless boomers who have no idea what they're talking about. Still, once Harry admits that he might be part of the "underground" as he puts it, the smoker is immediately excited and encourages him to think about it. It's very sweet.

(I know everyone has probably seen this dialogue 100 times by now but I love the phrasing here. literally twink_boutta_pounce.jpeg)

And as a side note I really like this emphaty check in response to Harry's little breakdown after the failed suggestion check the first time you meet him. The smoker like damn he just like me fr.

I don't think more smoker interactions were needed at all or that they would ever talk again post-game but it's interesting to think about what other converations they could have, even just so we could learn a bit more about him. They both have an interest in art. They're both stuck in a place they can't leave if they wanted to and yet find beauty in it, they both have regrets about past relationships. They both find talking with the other a charming experience in a way or another. If I want to be indulgent, they both could benefit from learning about what being gay means for a younger/older generation, especially since they both have such different life experiences with their identities.

It's all fanfic talk, and obviously no cops at pride and so on but their interactions did make me think about community and recognition through the other. A flirt for the sake of a flirt, a “maybe in another lifetime” but this lifetime is good too because they did meet and leave an impression on each other before parting ways. That's *beautiful* too.

[vonabel]

Whaat are your thoughts about the leaks? I was just excited that there was more art LMAO

OMG okay first of all, ur getting a whole essay from me rn I'm so sorry. And second of all, me too, like getting a mostly cohesive ending was nice but I'm really just in it for the literal art and new media atp. But, I do still have many thoughts.

Honestly, I liked it! I haven't seen all of it, but I have seen a ton of people posting how they feel about it which is giving me some context clues.

I guess Aizawa wasn't seen at all, which does make me sad because he's one of my favorites. I don't actually know how much of the chapter was leaked, I don't go out of my way to find leaks so I've just seen it all in passing on my various socials. But like if the whole thing wasn't leaked, we could still get the Eraserhead closure we need fr 🙏 and if not, it is what it is

I think Shouto looks really happy and healthy, which was so healing to see after the last few episodes of season seven 😭😭😭 like let him breathe PLEASE good fucking lord. And Touya's death being confirmed was really sad but also expected.

Also Shoji being ranked at like nine (I think, I can't remember) was SOOO refreshing. I really really like that Hori put someone who started as a background character so high up in the ranks. And Shoji was my blorbo for two or three years, so I'm fr like a proud momma LMAO

I think Mirio being ranked number one was a given, I saw it coming from a mile away after everything Sir Nighteye had said about him/to him. But I do HATE his new hair omg omg UGLYYY LMAOO

As for IzuOcha basically being canon, I personally love that! I like that it took them years to get there, and I was especially emotional over Toga being the one to give Ochako the nudge she needed, literally. The way that Ochako saw Toga's ghost and Deku saw Shigaraki's was a beautiful parallel that was really well done in my opinion.

I'm personally not a bkdk shipper, so the whole like rejection thing didn't piss me off like it did other fans. I think it was the perfect ending for them, nicely done and very bittersweet, which is how their relationship has always sort of been.

Deku being happy and at peace is really all I wanted LOL, he seems totally content where he is and I think him looping back around to being quirkless again was like soooo on point for the story and the way everything came together in the end! And I think Bakugo seemed rather happy too, settled and all that.

So all in all, I think it was good! I think the people hating take this shit way too seriously, especially the people who are particularly upset over bkdk not being canon. Ships are actually never that serious I fear.

The only thing that sort of disappointed me was that everyone from class 1a got a sick ass glow up except Deku. Like don't get me wrong, he looked FIIINNNE as all hell. But like Sero has a mustache (which is so hot) and Shinsou has long ass hair but Deku still has almost the exact same character design 😭 like damn switch it up for my boy a little bit, give him a hair cut or some shit idk

thank you for asking im actually honored 😩🙏

[beanghostprincess]

I totally agree with your opinion on Z0$an.

For me, I really enjoy their canon dynamic and can see why people ship them but then when I see most fan content of them it bothers me because most of the time they’re being mischaracterized and I only like their very specific canon dynamic (I can’t really describe it). Additionally it bothers me when certain moments for other ships that involve one of the two get interpreted as platonic when these same moments would be seen as romantic if they were between Zoro and Sanji. For example basically every Sanuso moment but especially in Water 7 and Enies Lobby or the most egregious example, the „Nothing happened“ moment.

Yeah,,, It bothers me that most people are so intense and adamant about Sanuso/Zolu's scenes being platonic when those same scenes would've been perceived as romantic with Zo$an. And I am honestly somebody who keeps reaching a lot and looking for content in every little scene, but that's because idk, Sanuso (for example) doesn't have as much content as Zo$an. These shippers don't need to make everything about their ship for content and they don't even need any proof of it being canon, and yet they keep making other ship's scenes about them (the "nothing happened" scene could be seen as Zo$an too but c'mon we all know that's a Zolu thing. And the new art of Reiju and Tashigi??? I'm sorry but can we please let the sapphics have this one color spread instead of making it about the most popular ship of the fandom?).

That being said, I don't care about people doing this because they like the ship and like to look for content in every little thing (I do it too!!). What bothers me aren't Zo$an shippers (I even ship this myself lmao I know it looks like I hate it but I don't) but Zo$an shippers who genuinely believe this is actual proof for the ship being canon or saying other ships are "wrong" or "don't make sense". De nile is a river in Egypt and these people need to understand that probably 80% of their content is mischaraterized because they keep ignoring the beautiful, precious potential they have in their already canon dynamic. And also, your ship doesn't need to be canon to be enjoyed like... Some people need to understand that.

Long story short, I like Zo$an when it's in character and people don't force it down my throat. It's really sad because I think that Zo$an, despite being so popular, has a lot of wasted potential.

Also, don't mention Sanuso being underrated in comparison to Zo$an because I will end up writing a whole paragraph and nobody wants drama-- I prefer to blame Usopp haters rather than other ships for its unpopularity. But uh, yeah, a lot of scenes between Usopp and Sanji are extremely romantic and the fact that it's underrated (when other ships have more attention having less romantic scenes) bothers me quite a lot. But then again, I think one of the main reasons is because Usopp is criminally underrated.

[goopyedgay]

Uh time to be cringe

sometimes it makes me feel very bad and the fact of being a gregstella shipper bothers me, imagine that what you love the most and makes you happy is also what hurts you the most, I'm not doing anything wrong and still the people get to be very annoying and cruel to me, I want to believe because I am the one who is actively creating content about them, so I guess it makes sense that I'm the one who takes the hits.

I'm someone who tries to take things calmly but sometimes I just explode over things as simple and stupid as these, I know I asked people to block me if my content bothers them, and I appreciate that they do, but there are also people that the only thing seeks is to annoy, even sending me messages that I should kms.

I couldn't care less about these things when I'm in a good mood but in these moments when I just feel bad and I can only say, I'm sorry? sorry for shipping two characters that have nothing problematic? I wish I had become obsessed with something else instead of this but I can't help it, I've been dealing with this shit since last year, but now that I've become more open it only makes things worse.

I can't even calmly interact with the hellpark fandom because I'm afraid they'll get mad at me and point out that I'm "proshipper" or "lesbiphobic", at this point I don't even want to draw HP Estella and Gregory together, I have to admit that I ship them and that was the reason why I started doing it gregstella content, but to avoid problems I created my own au or whatever. (and it ended up becoming a very ambitious project wow)

I'm not lesbiphobic, in fact, I really like ships wlw, and I have considered being a lesbian many times but i'm aro so meh, just because I like a "straight" ship doesn't negate everything else, it will sound like an excuse but I don't even consider Gregory to be a man (or at least the one from hellpark and my au) or a woman, I consider him as... Gregory just being Gregory? I don't really give much importance to this hc thing because at the end of the day my favorite characters are my favorite characters for other reasons and not just for that, and I found myself unfortunate that my two favorite characters are two that you can't ship because it's "wrong". I know there are some gregstella shippers who have said or done unpleasant things, but there will always be weird people, and that doesn't mean we should pigeonhole us all into that.

It's sad that I have to say something as stupid as this to me. But I needed to get this off my chest because I'm really getting tired of this kind of stuff, I'll probably delete this later or maybe keep it here so people are clear about where I stand and stop saying or misinforming what I do or say, like e.g. I draw nsfw (something I have never done publicly and I haven't drawn this type of explicit things for years since I was grommed lol, and if I did in the future that is something that does not concern you, much less if you are minors)

Anyway, thank you very much to the people who support me and like my art, you really motivate me to continue being open with what I like and continue bringing content for the community of this beautiful ship, or even if you don't like the ship and you only like my artstyle, it is also appreciated ♥️

This is more vent than a clarification, but hey, take it as you want, love y'all!

[arttrampbelle]

villains have nuance.

FFS VILLAINS HAVE NUANCE!

There are layers to them.

Good,bad,noble,and absolutely despicable.

And if you wanna talk about how human a villain is. Especially if they are dark,tragic,and complex.

Then you need to talk about the characters positive traits as well as negative.

I tended to see this with some people be like this with frollo.

Ok so there is many media of him. But everyone is more familiar with the disney version. (My fave)

But even then all media,or at least some fans hot takes. Gets lost is translation of the main point of his character.

He is a victim of his own beliefs. Not nessicarly the religion. As the archdeacon is a kind man but is presumed catholic. But he doesn't do those things. So no,it's not the religion.

No frollo is a victim of a cycle of abuse. His mentors and potentially as a protege he was abused or instilled with legitimately the fear of god.

He lashes and takes it out on others because he has no real healthy outlet. He also more than likely would be not allowed or presumed by his own beliefs (more likely because again he was taught that by someone. Who? It's isn't said i believe but you can make something up. As this is a work of fiction after all) to enact in courtly love or gestures. And if he did,it would have to be away from public eyes but he feels the eyes of god and mary always on him. His neurosis and anxieties and fear got to him. (Again it's not that he isn't allowed per say. But he feels judged. Ironically he is also too....a judge. But that aside. He could participate in courtly love....if he got over himself)

He feels potentially the people needed a firm hand because he felt that way worked for him (it did not) this also is apparent in his relationship with quasimodo.

However there is things that he showed that is noble or kind. He always made sure quasimodo was fed,bathed,cared for. And only lashed out when he was angry or felt like he was being judged himself. His obvious decline in mental health and fortitude suffered really. Thus showing his darkest side.

(And if dude just jacked off we wouldn't be in this problem)

But even through it all. Frollo knew,he knew what he felt wasn't good. He didn't think he wa sin the wrong. But he didn't feel himself right either. And prayed god would forgive him for what he felt he must do (frollo you really didn't need to do that my dude).

Again going by my lovely knowledge and love of villains.

He got his comeuppance anyways. At least in the disney version.

So for others to add more context,their own hcs,or to play with the narrative a bit. Is fine to me.

Because

1. He's fictional. He ain't real. And we aint talkin bout irl people. (I know there are some people out here like that,but he's not real. And people need to understand that and know it's ok.)

2. He canonly got karma for his deeds. (And it was beautiful!)

3. People are allowed to explore and Express themselves. (Especially when it comes to art. Not all art is fucking rainbows. Sometimes we like to explore the dark and macabre)

4. Even for those who wanna explore and enjoy things i personally do not agree with about the characters. (I.e certain ships,hcs,etc) i still find it fascinating to see what people come up with. And to each their own. ♡

And if you have a problem with people like myself or others genuinely exploring a dark tragic villain character and adding more or explaining said nuance and complexities.

Then you don't need to look, It's as simple as that. You cultivate your own online experience. So yeah.

I know some find him squick(rightfully so) but i find him fascinating(and the late tony jay voice absolutely delicious. R.i.p).

I love judge claude frollo. And for fellow frollo enjoyers,i enjoy your work too. ♡

[lara635kookie]

Ship Analysis pt. 4:

Red Crackle, Carmivy and Carulia.

When you're a teenager, all you want is becoming part of a group. And peer pressure is a thing. Teenagers can go to great lengths just be accepted. And for teenagers that never had a family(because we know that sadly, most older children don't get adopted since majority of parents look for babies) and most likely think there's something wrong with them and ask themselves why no one wanted them(because we know how intense are our feelings when we're teenagers, stupid hormones) V.I.L.E. seduces them with the prospection of acceptance and belonging they always wanted and never had, making them believe they got nothing to lose and It's what's best for them to feel they have a home, people waiting for them to come back, somewhere it doesn't feel empty and cold(it's so dark and heavy, it's almost kinda like a n*zifacist thing, they use the desperation, lack of purpose and need for change of these people and ask for their absolute loyalty in exchange)(if you seen Die Welle you understand what I'm talking about)(I don't know if that was intentional, probably not, but now that I think about it Maelstrom kind of reminds me of Hitl*r and Muss*lini in a way, even if he's an animated character)(I know it sounds polemic but rewatch the show with this mindset about V.I.L.E. and you'll notice)(and considering that the neo-n*zifascists groups are coming back nowadays, that is pretty spot on)(if the series had explored more that, it probably wouldn't be for kids anymore but it would pass an amazing social criticism with that analogy)(I think if Carmen Sandiego was a cartoon for older people it would have been better because it would explore its full potential)(and it wouldn't be excused of its failures because "It's a kids show and kids don't notice that"). However, keep in mind that I'm not trying to erase any of Gray's mistakes. There are things he did there are inexcusable but I believe we have to understand the character and the context he's in before judging. I'm not trying to cover Gray's bad side by any means, but this person looks like is trying to completely erase Gray's good side, so I'm trying to highlight that as well. We see that Gray tells Chief he chose a life of crime in his own free will, so while his free will was there too, Maelstrom's influence was also involved. It is shown that Gray was stealing alone before going back to V.I.L.E. but characters change. A character is never the same person at the start and the end of a story. Even the bad written ones, they change. Even if just a little. From the point that video was recorded he was still with his old hair and didn't meet Black Sheep. So you can't use a video from his past before V.I.L.E. to classify his V.I.L.E. self. While yes, it was awful for him to say that, it was a act of desperation. At least seemed like it from his facial expressions and his voice tone. And he didn't do it because of his "fucked up conscience" he did it because he cares about Carmen. He LOVES Carmen. And Carmen loves him back. Platonic or not, they love each other. Carmen also loved Player, Shadowsan, Ivy and Zack, but she didn't love Julia. She likes Julia but they didn't spend enough time together to love each other(at least not romantically). And you don't wanna harm the people you love. The thing is, if I learned something with Red Shoes and the seven dwarves(underrated masterpiece with pretty animation, beautiful message and hot characters), is that you shouldn't change the good in yourself to be loved by someone else, but you gotta make your best to change the bad in you. Merlin needed to embrace Snow White's true beauty and change his bad views of what beauty was like. The same thing applies here:Gray needed to embrace the good in himself and in Carmen to stay with her. The thing is that Gray doesn't accept the good in himself like Carmen does. My personal theory is that he's kinda like DreamWorks piece of art Megamind:Tried to be good but got hurt and them turned to bad as a defense mechanism(heros and villains aren't born, they're made, baby).

To be continued...

[taxi-cab-to-slowtown]

Unpopalar Opinion:

Fanon is itself it's own form of canon.

I know a lot of people dislike fanon, especially when it gets characters just plain wrong, and when people who only know fanon target people for their canon interpretations of the character. Does Dick have elder daughter syndrome in canon? No. He does have it in fanon though. Fanon is itself a version of canon. Fanon is just as valid as canon... and both can be misused in fandom community.

To divest myself from DC even though this is clearly focused on fanon vs canon discourse which is so prevelent in a fandom that has so many different forms of canon and so many disagreements about character and their interpretations based on fanon and canon, let me start first with an example from a story that hold no baring to anyone here but me.

I'm a writer, I have a published book and am working on the sequel. I've spent years planning this book even before it hit the writing process and during that time I eagerly shared things about the story with friends of mine. Things as simple as character names as as complex as deep lore that will probably never end up on the page. There is a deep canon to this story written on scarps of paper and in notebooks and typed into hundreds of pages of google docs. The only people who know this story really are me, my three closest friends, and my ex.

That's now a lot of people, that's not a big fandom, and yet fanon exists for it.

One major fanon in the series is that one of the main characters has a house on the moon. This is incompatible with canon which has her owning a castle that was passed down through her family and living instead with her husband. The existence of this house on the moon does not line up with anything in the series and could never occur in canon and make sense. Yet, frequently my friends will reference this character's house on the moon in jokes and when talking about her character. This is purely fanon created by my friends, and it's just as valid a part of this character and our view of her as the canon elements of her character.

Fanon is itself a form of canon and it can be wonderful. Some people need to see Dick as having elder daughter syndrome, even though he doesn't, because it helps them find a character they connect to. Sometimes it's easier to understand the fanon version of a character than the complex intricacies of the canon character that are ever shifting as the writers change and make mistakes. Comics especially have too much canon for any one person to know everything about every character, and fanon was formed out of fans connecting with and developing their own collective ideas and headcanons of a character.

It's actually beautiful.

The problem is when someone comes into a fan creation and says "this is wrong becuase xyz doesn't line up with qpr about this character." It does not matter if the "qpr" is canon of fanon, that fan is entitled to their own creation, their own formation of their story or art, their own development of the character.

A friend of mine pointed out that there is no such thing as an OOC character as long as the character does what is established for them to do in that art. If you want to ship Dick and Kory because they're together in canon or Dick and Wally because you think they have chemistry, you're valid. Any artform is valid whether it's based on canon or fanon, or anything in between.

I think we need to stop seeing fanspace as a commercial market and see it as a conversation. FTL has pointed this out more and more. We don't need to agree, we don't need to have everything allign to our thoughts about the characters because inevitably our interpretations are going to be different, we just need to respect those difference, and respect each other an our creations as what they are-- creative human expression.

[wifiwuxians]

sorry for the late reply! im the songxue anon! just saw your responses a few minutes ago and my gosh, you're really very sweet ;; im sorry to have caused so much of a fuss but thank you for being so compassionate and kind ;; (also i adore that crying xue yang omigosh what are you talking abt how can you think thats not amazing its perfect i love it). also the tags? on your first reply??? people are mean to song lan????? WHO IS MEAN TO SONG LAN??? WHY??? HOW????! i'll be honest, i tend to avoid getting involved with fandom discourse At All Costs bc i dont need that kind of stress in my life, so mainly i just look at fanart and fics i like and stay in my lane so i had no idea there were people who hate on song lan???? like??????????? how????????????????? okay, i love xue yang, he's my baby, but i TOTALLY understand people hating him. he has no rights and he deserved everything bad that happened to him and so much more. i just happen to adore him and wanna spoil my stupid lil meowmeow. like it makes SENSE to be mad at xue yang but like.................................. how can anyone hate song lan?!?! HE DID NOTHING WRONG?????? LITERALLY HE JUST GOT HURT, OVER AND OVER, FOR NO REASON????? im sorry for going on such a tangent over a very short tag you added but im a lil flabbergasted that anyone could hate on Best Boy. also while im going on tangents about tags, your 500 aus are part of what i adore about your art oki. like you have such a wonderful and vivid imagination and the way that you give life to the ideas with your art is breath-taking. even if its a concept i dont think i would enjoy just hearing the idea, when i see your execution i am 100% on board because my gosh you have such a beautiful way of bringing life to things.

and you don't need to apologize for anything btw! it's totally oki to assert boundaries and i really dont speak for anyone other than myself. i just saw a few "dont tag as ship" things and i was like "ahh... oki they prolly wouldnt like me" cuz im an anxious bean and i also dont wanna reveal myself as a gross loser who likes weird ships to one of my fav artists, ya know? so you were 100% just doing the good selfcare thing (which much approval, we stan) and i just got the wrong idea cuz im a nervous weirdo. as for revealing myself i feel a bit embarrassed to do so now after being such a weirdo at you oaeurhgiauehrg but one way or another, your are IS getting reblogged, especially now that i have permission to look at some pieces disrespectfully oiaerhjgohre (not SUPER disrespectfully, just maybe a lil bit of 'they're in love your honor' oki) (a silly random thing but im a bit happy to know you dont hate songxue oijghiouehrg its silly but knowing my favorite 'songxue artist' (not-really-songxue-but-i-totally-see-it) doesnt hate my otp is kinda nice 😊 i thought the irony of it was a bit funny before but i also felt guilty for seeing stuff that your didnt really intend with your art and yeah eoirjgioejrg basically my initial asks were all that struggle so its just kinda nice. its not a very popular ship so its cool when its not disliked, even if its not actively enjoyed. idk if im making sense LOL sorry) ohergiuearhg sorry i feel like i went on a bunch of tangents instead of responding to you properly and i think maybe i have a problem of Talking Too Much so i swear i will really try to keep this one short. i love your art, youre completely valid and wonderful, im doing okay and im really happy you responded to me so kindly despite my strangeness, i think you're neat and you deserve a ton of people showering you with praise cuz damn, you make things great. and i'd like to take a moment to express how you can really influence people with your art: i never even considered wen chao x xue yang before your art and now i think they're a really funny couple, and thats completely bc of how lovely your creations are. please believe in your ability to make people love the things that you love through your beautiful art. be proud of how incredible you are. you make everything a lil brighter just by existing but the fact that you exist and choose to share your beautiful art (and fics, ive read some of them and i Love your writing, its incredible) you make the world a whole lot brighter cuz damn, now i get to look at this stuff and just smile and feel warm inside. so thank you for making my life a lil happier and please be confident in yourself!

okay sorry to put em all together but also i felt it was best so let's begin,

^me

1- you've caused no fuss at all so don't worry about that!! i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a ships in the night situation LOL i wanted to make sure you got my response! :) (I'M GLAD YOU ENJOY THE MEME LOL) as for song lan meanness, that's what i'm saying THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING and YET! this is why i stay out of the tags all the time. there's just too much shit out there in the world and sometimes i fail at just gritting my teeth and letting people say their thang, and it gets me in trouble... but maaaaaaan i really need to say it's a shame you wanna stay anonymous because i think we'd get on like a house on fire! you've summed up exactly how i feel about both of them + how i wish others reacted to them haha (but no pressure to reveal yourself! just know i think we'd get along)

and as for 500 AUs... i'm so glad 😭 i am an AU machine, i have so many i can't keep track and they bring me so much joy, but i admittedly feel sort of alone in making them haha SO THIS MEANS A LOT!! especially you complimenting my execution like i think i may just melt into a puddle and pass away jfghsjh thank you,, so much

2- but seriously, don't worry about the tag thing, it is 100% a boundary thing and the only time i think i'd dislike someone for it is if they saw i said not to tag it as something in the body of the post and did it anyway! 'cause that's just rude (and then i feel despair bc what else can i do to get people NOT to tag LMAO) it's for my own comfort, i'm not trying to dictate what people can or can't ship or feel, it's just i'd rather not hear about it :p especially when it's not what i drew! but also i'm a favorite artist? 😳

you haven't been a weirdo at all! no pressure to go mask off but please don't let anything be because you think i think you're a weirdo or a loser, ok? it's not true! hooray reblogs my NUTRIENCE.. THANK YOU! (but haha this isn't a 'theyre in love' type of piece but the one i personally look at most disrespectfully is when i drew sl straight up eating xy's flesh off his ribs... i know cannibalism isn't for everyone though and neither is gory imagery! just... sharing... oversharing...)

for the aside: no problem! i will say for transparency purposes that my relationship with it IS complicated and that i personally would need it to fit a very uncommon mold (that i do not often see) for me to be like 👍 which is why i tend to stick to my own stuff + what a chosen few friends make when it comes to them in general, but my god you're a rare breed! i've never met anyone who had it as their otp!! you're braver than any US marine because it's such a rarepair it didn't make it into the like top 11 mdzs ships on ao3 or whatever...

3- i love talking though! i really appreciate your messages and i hope this response wasn't a complete jumbled mess ahhh...

thank you so so much for all the lovely praise and encouragement, getting these messages actually helped me break out of my funk a little and do some chores, so know your words do have an impact too! 💕 i need to remember more often that as long as even one person smiles at my work, it will have been worth it. i promise i'm trying ;; sometimes i get caught up in the numbers still and i'm very ashamed of that, but damn, you took time out of your day to let me know that you love and appreciate what i do, and that's honestly made me tear up a little, so THANK YOU AGAIN !! i'm sorry i'm failing at expressing myself and my gratitude properly kgjdklhjkgh (also, thank you for the xuechao support, like THAT's what i call a RAREPAIR! (canned laughter) i really try to spread the joy with those two)

i'm really floundering on how to say thank you well enough so... maybe i can show you some birthday art i made for a friend who also loves xy and sl and xy/chao (which of course now im being nitpicky about but the friend loved it so idc LOL)

[amazing-spiderling]

fandom ask game: 1 8 12 15 16 17 21

the character everyone gets wrong

Okay, I don't know that this is *wrong*, per se- but I think the ITSV characterization of Gwen Stacy has everyone thinking that Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider/Whatever is this like... cool, super competent hero with an unwavering sense of right and wrong while her incarnation in the comics is just about as far from that as can be. For starters, Gwen is older, at least 19 to start but the story spans at least a year, maybe more. She's also a certified mess, and she makes a lot of mistakes and missteps and spends a lot of time disappointing people, and we didn't get a sense of that in ITSV. That's fine, because at the end of the day it was Miles' story, but even making her a ballerina with sick dance moves instead of a "she gets by because she has powers" fighter just makes her seem way more put together than she is. I'd like to see more of "barely holding it together like she's made out of masking tape and old corn dog sticks" Gwen in fanworks.

common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

That there is a "best" Spider-Man. You are 1000% entitled to your *favorite* Spider-Man, but the character has been so many things over so many years and mediums, each geared towards a different audience- people who try and put some sort of objective judgement on something like that are just stating their personal opinion as though it's fact.

If you don't like a certain incarnation or love another one, that's fine! Just own that as your personal opinion.

All the Spideys are friends and love each other, even when they fight.

the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

IDK about unpopular? What does that even mean these days... I guess I'll interpret it as "characters that need more time in the sun"?

I have a soft spot for Arach-Knight (the Moon Knight/Spider-Man hybrid from the Infinity Warps comic) and I wish there was more fan content of him. I think it was a genius mash up, because so much of Spider-Man's internal conflict comes from an inability to compartmentalize the different parts of his life, but Arach-Knight is this great example of compartmentalization gone too far. I believe the implication is that the 616 gang is aware of the temporary folding of the universe? So in theory they might still retain some memories of their Warp selves? If I was a faster writer, I'd love to explore what that means for 616 Peter.

Oh, and shout out to Last Devil, silent hero from like 5 pages of Spider-Man/Daredevil. We barely knew ye, but I found myself very compelled. The design, the implications of a Daredevil who has a connection to the Hand... there's so much going on there, I want to crack him open like a geode.

Second shout-out to Weapon Xi (the "not deadpool" from X-Men Origins: Wolverine) because as bizarre as that interpretation was, the character has the potential for so much ANGST and I want it.

that one thing you see in fanart all the time

Alright, I guess the point is to be spicy, so I'll go ahead and say it. I've reached my quota of "twinky goodboy uwu Matt being manhandled by big stwong Frank" artwork. I'm good. We can stop.

you can’t understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

When they were handing out the part of the brain that ships Wolverine and Nightcrawler, I guess I was getting second helpings of "love Nightcrawler". It's not that I dislike the pairing, or even that it squicks me, it just does nothing for me. I nothing it. I see tons of beautiful art (and I've read a few fics) but I might as well be looking a a photograph of a very nice car for all the warm feelings it stirs in me.

The wild thing is!!!! I LOVE friends to lovers. Love some best buddies who mean the world to one another that come to mean even more. I just...??? I don't know. There's some kind of blinders on me when it comes to those two. Maybe this isn't the answer to this question bc it's more about my own inability to like something than not being able to understand other people's interest in it.

I think I also have a tendency to try really hard to understand why people like the things they do. Like, even if a dish is not for me, I'm still able to say, "I do not want to eat this, but someone who loves spicy food would be crazy for it." And I have that approach to fandom stuff too- so with *most* things I think I have some understanding of *why* it has a fandom, or what the appeal is.

there should be more of this type of fic/art

Stuff based on the Marvel 1602 universe. I really want to take a stab at doing some artwork of this at some point (after my current projects give me some breathing room) but gosh. I'm surprised more people aren't playing in this universe. Maybe it's because the books came out before the MCU boom? Maybe because they're kind of dense or historical based AUs don't interest people? I just feel like it's fertile soil and gosh, drops just enough crumbs for us to use to make a whole meal.

part of canon you think is overhyped

A lot of the classic X-Men stories. I don't know if it's fandom that lauds them as the best thing ever or just the people making media that are convinced the stories that were popular four decades ago still hold up, but like... some of those stories were revolutionary because it was the first time we'd seen the concept in comics- but that was decades ago. The concept of a hero being pushed over the brink and embracing evil is very well explored now. We don't need ANOTHER Dark Phoenix story. My hope is that if/when the X-Men enter the MCU, we really embrace some of the weird stories that team has been through.

[lexical-lushes]

[Shivers, Vampiric] ...s-still thinking a lot about stuff. D&D/eberron-me.

specifically about vampire psychology.

Dark Desires. Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.

vampires in D&D sort of... they mistake the signifier for the signified. they get obsessive about things because the things represent something else that they feel compelled by, but because they're s-stuck in a negative emotional framework and can't really grow as people the same way anymore, they can't actually engage with the things they want directly in a healthy way.

and that chronic mistake, that way of seeing things, traps them in a cycle of disappointment. the signifier can never actually be the signified.

i t-think a lot of vampires get attached to people because they represent something, and then it all gets tragic and deadly when the vampire gets frustrated i-it isn't getting what it expected.

(but they don't learn, because they're frozen a-as a sort of snapshot of themselves.)

for me, w-well...

i wanted, so, so badly, to be more mature than i was. i wanted people to respect me, to like me, but i wasn't willing to admit that the ways i w-went about seeking that just turned me into a fun toy. never make a fuss. never say no. never give them time to consider i-if i'm more trouble than i'm worth.

so...

as a vampire, that's still my obsession. the idea that other people must have some sort of intangible, ineffable essence of maturity granted to them by experience. that they have to know something i don't, have some quality i don't.

but maybe i can get it for myself.

maybe if i listen closely enough, if i push myself to act like they do, if i hang out with them enough, it'll... r-rub off on me, somehow.

i can swear i can taste it in their blood.

i'm actually pretty strong-willed. i let myself get pushed around a lot as a mortal, but it was because i was forcing myself into situations i was uncomfortable with. i needed to be "good" for the people i was interested in, or i'd get kicked out and i'd be alone again.

and it means i can turn my hunger and obsession into something... constructive. with help, sure, but. i'm driven enough by my desire not to be bad, not to hurt anyone, that i find a safe, controlled way to feed myself and make sure i don't get put down like a rabid dog.

so i sell myself.

the clients get a willing girl out of it, one that reassures them overtly and covertly that she can take whatever punishment they f-feel like dishing out. vampires heal fast.

i get to surround myself with the signifier of the maturity i wish i could have. i get to go through the motions and listen to their gossip and feel like i'm closer to figuring it out.

and usually, they're gone the next day, shipped out of the port. we might never see each other again.

...it's when someone likes me, that it can get messy.

when someone gets attached.

because oh, h-how i want to be worthy of attachment.

and that's when i get obsessive. that's when i get jealous.

...at least it usually ends with me leaving, instead of hurting anyone. when i realize it's not working, that they're not rubbing off on me. that's when i decide they don't have the thing i'm looking for, that they're doing it wrong, that maybe i'm just broken and fucking it up.

their fault or mine, it's better to burn it all down and move on.

[kimium]

For the ask game: 7, 17, 21, 25!

(From this ask HERE)

Thank you so much for this ask, friend! I'm so excited to answer this!

Remember everyone: this is all subjective and just my opinion. You can disagree with me; that's fine.

7. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because of how the fandom acts about them?

I cannot stand how fandom views Camilla from Fire Emblem Fates.

Before I get into this however, I want to clarify that I do NOT hate Camilla at all. In fact, I quite like her. With that out of the way, let's get to my thoughts.

Camilla loves her family with all her heart and soul. They're the most important people to Camilla and she'll do anything to protect them. Many of Camilla's fears are rooted in the fear of those she loves leaving her behind. In Birthright and Revelations, Camilla is devastated by Corrin's "defection" and that soul-crushing weight of her fear becoming reality makes me feel so much for Camilla.

This fear is also shown in Camilla's supports with Selena, where she explicitly tells Selena to "not leave her". I'm certain there are other supports.

Yes, I am aware that Camilla in turn to having her fears become reality does suggest or actually act violently, but cut the woman some slack, especially in Birthright where her family is literally being torn apart from the inside out. Also, her country is going to war.

However, I've found that some of fandom has distilled Camilla's personality into my least favourite mature female trope of "Ara, ara you poor thing. Let me hug you to my Very Well Endowed Bosom so fans can fantasize about being pushed up to my chest too. If you try to escape me you're being naughty and need to be punished, tee-hee-hee".

Which, brings me to another point: Camilla is more than just her very well endowed chest. I know the series shoves it into our faces in both Fates and Heroes, but she has more depth than just being there for fanservice.

17. There should be more of this type of fic/art.

Uh, I'm not too sure what to say for this one. In general I like all types of fanart and fanfiction for series. I don't think there is a specific type I want to see in particular.

However, if we want a series I want to see more fanart/fic/attention for I will keep singing my praises for To Your Eternity. It's a fantastic series with such depth to the characters and story telling and I want more to watch and appreciate it.

21. Part of canon you think is overhyped.

Again, not too sure what this question means, so I'm reading it as "a particular part of a series that's overhyped either by the narrative or the fanbase".

-I found Chainsaw Man a bit overhyped for my tastes. Don't get me wrong: I think the art is beautiful, the animation breath-taking, and the character designs fun. That, however, is where my enjoyment of the series sort of fades. I enjoyed the anime and I'm decently caught up in the manga, but the series never hit me emotionally the way other shonen series in the past have. Sorry, everyone. I wish this wasn't the case but I just enjoy it generally.

-Sometimes I think tournament arcs in anime can be overhyped by series. Please do NOT get me wrong. My favourite tournament arc is the Dark Tournament in Yu Yu Hakusho and that series was one of the first pioneers of the trope.

However, over the years some series try to change it up by having an "interruption" to the tournament and sometimes I feel that invalidates the entire build up to the arc in the first place. I also think that allows the writers to chicken out of showing who would actually win.

25. Common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing.

I am so sick of reading about people arguing over ships. Look, people can ship who they want. They're all fictional characters anyways. Even if it's a ship that you REALLY dislike, there is no reason to attach anyone over it. If you don't like a ship and you see someone else like it, ignore them and move on.

[viksteroni]

Alright, i love this drawing, is so fucking beautiful and i notice somethings that i need to comment to praise this masterpiece.

To be clear, this is all my opinions and reflections about the drawing, nothing confirm by the artist.

We have, of crouse, Needle at the top of the frame, with drops of blood around it.

In both sides of the Needle we have two elements.

First we have a coin with a ship, this cloud represent the coin that Jaqen gives to Arya, the same coin that she uses to get a free trip to Braavos by ship.

Next we have a leaf, a red leaf, like a weirwood tree, what resemble us to Winterfell, the Starks and the north in general.

Talking about the bottom now, there's the direwolfs, that are of crouse the Starks direwolfs. Maybe i'm wrong, but the wolf with a fish in the mouth remember me of Nymeria, what made me think that the fish cloud be a signal to Braavos that has many ocean simbols and a strong fishing culture.

On the left side of the bottom we have a castle, in the sunrise or sunset, with a Stark banner.

On the right side we also have a castle, in the sunrise or sunset, this time with a Bolton banner.

What makes me belive that this castle is Winterfell and this two represent the fall of house Stark/the possession of house Bolton of Winterfell/the north.

Also, the sunrise or sunset thing, cloud be a signal to the fall of one house and the rise of the other. Possibly the fall of the Starks and the rise of the Boltons, or maybe, in the future, the rise of the Starks and the fall of the Boltons.

Talking about building, let's talk about the top part again. On the left side we see what clearly is the house of black and white, with a black cat on the door. Around it, i suppose that is Braavos, in day time.

On the right side we have the exact same thing, but this time on the door we have a white cat and it is night time.

The black/white cat and the day/night thing cloud represent the house of black and white, but cloud also represent the mixed feelings/teachings that Arya has about death, mercy vs revenge, honor vs revenge.

Going to the central piece. Arya is holding a mask, that for me looks like a wolf. Being a wolf mask, can represent her as a Stark, as the wolf blood and a free spirit.

The mask itself could represent Arya's journey on the house of black and white, as well the diferent people that she becomes with the masks.

And then we have the skeleton (that represents the Stranger) hand in Arya's shoulder, that cloud represent the constant death "touch" on her life. Also, by their positions looks like he's stoping her to go foward, representing how death stopped Arya's life.

Their clothing can also reveal a lot. Notice how Arya's is dress with warm colors while the Stranger is in cold colors. That can represent the life, the warm, and the death, the cold.

Still on the central piece. There's the trees, the fucking trees have eyes. This cloud be a lot, by their color, they cloud resemble to a weirwood tree, and the eyes wloud resemble the faces that the weirwood trees have.

Cloud also represent the constant eyes of spies, even in the forest, for diferent sides of the war. Lannisters spies, Bolton spies, even Stranger spies, that would be the faceless men. Remembering that Arya cloud never low her guard in the Riverlands, you never know what is hidding in the trees.

We can also see an eye on one of the jewelry of the Stranger, but unfortunately i don't have more image space in this blog to show it.

In conclusion, this drawing is marvelous and deserve a lot of attention and love, as do the artist.

Maybe i'm overthink it, maybe i'm a sucker for simple things with a big meaning, maybe i'm a art student used to look at drawings for long times, or maybe Kraehenkunst is a genius.

Arya and the Stranger

Good news, I figured out a way to pack even more unnecessary, extremely tedious to color details into my art :)

No i've just been obsessed with these old russian fairytale illustrations for ages and really wanted to try and emulate that style and how it shows so much additional art in the borders of the work. It was really fun to figure out a way to portray the stranger, I wanted to play around a bit with the descriptions we are given without turning them into a standard grim reaper.

Oh, also if you want; you can get a print of this here!

[mot-minh-toi]

I have a day off today, can't remember if I wrote anything yesterday, but I doubt I did, since it was a work day and things tend to slipped my mind on those days.

Nothing gets better, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing, I feel less angry? I don't know, I will have to see. I am (or I think I am) doing a lot of view reframing, but I seriously doubt its success. I am somewhat aware of an anger I am trying to ignore, thinking I have been wronged. Why do I think so much about past reactions, behaviors, and situations? Why do I care so much about what people think about me? Why do I try to change, act, and fit into a mold I think would please people? When it only leaves me frustrated and hates myself more?

I like bowling, I really do, but as of now, it has become something I dread. Can I just ignore my colleagues and bowl? It's nothing on them. It's just that I find it so hard to talk and be around people. It makes me feel so weird and out of place. Even people I am close with and (over)share a lot of things I cannot be comfortable around. I look for certain reactions to feel like we are ok, I am not weird, and that things are fine. When I found none of that I feel trapped, I don't want to be their, to talk or to interact anymore, and it so fucking weird.

I wish I could just be normal and stop thinking. Stop feeling or something. Am I just exaggerating, looking for some sort of sympathy, to avoid looking at the fact that I am just lazy and full of excuses?

I haven't studied for 30 mins today, and neither so yesterday. I should.

Why am I starting to have a headache?

Should I bail this Thursday? Well, it's not exactly bailing, I am not expected to be there or expected to not be there. I want to bowl, but not there, with these people.

Again, no faults of their, just my own.

I hate myself so much. I think I am having some health issues, especially heart related. I am half wishing it will take me, half worrying about all the things I left behind if it does, like my cats, my filthy house, my disturbing art taste, etc.

Oh, and I should really help my mom with the dishes.

I did another laundry load today, yay me!

Anyway, I have done lots of escaping recently, and today, I watched Saltburn. Interesting film, beautiful shots, I constantly thinking, "Oh, that would make a lovely (phone) background" in between admiring the lead actors' beauty. I absolutely love Oliver's birthday fit, I love the scene of the summer montage in which they lay together by the pool, so quick but so nice and full of chemistry that I had to get onto AO3 to search for a fic. Unfortunately, despite the delicious ship, there're few fics and fewer that fit my tastes. Manage to find one, I think, would worth loading onto my Kobo Clara to read.

I don't have much to say about this movie. I love hearing/watching/reading stories, and this movie satisfies my need. I am a bit disappointed with myself that I spoil the movie ending in like the first 20 minutes. I think I would enjoy the twist and enjoy the movie more if only I hadn't done that. No use crying over spilled milk now. it's still a good watch. And I can't watch to watch Amanda's review now. And I think I would like to see this movie again.

I'm dreading tomorrow. I'm hoping real wins.

And it's enough for today.

P/s: The bathtub scene makes me gag 🤢🤮

[jackoshadows]

can you tag your sansa stark posts as anti sansa stark? I’m not telling you to remove the main tag but just add the anti one

Just block me and move on.

It’s weird how fans of the character feel that canon Sansa quotes from the books is anti Sansa.  Meanwhile Arya and Jon stans have to deal with murder baby Arya and incompetent Jon or unrelated quotes randomly put together to rewrite relationships. Maybe that's why the Arya and Jon tags are so full of headcanon Sansa that most of the time feels like an unrecognizable OC.

And then in the comments there is someone who has ‘not read the books in years’ telling me that I lack reading comprehension  😂

And this is while there is so much racist Arya fanart from Sansa stans on the Arya Stark tag despite repeated requests from poc to stop doing this.

It's honestly so depressing to go on the Arya Stark tag and see fanart on the tag or sidebars - because racist art is so popular in fandom!! - where canonically white Arya is differentiated from her more classically beautiful sister by simply drawing her in darker skin tones. At this point it's clear that artists are aware of the racist implications of doing this and still continue to do this because they don't care.

And yet using a Sansa book quote is supposedly 'anti Sansa' and needs to be tagged as such. I guess the tags should only be used for headcanons of racist caricatures of ‘ugly’ Arya and beautiful blue eyed, whitey white Sansa being the best sisters ever and nothing else.

I think the problem for many Sansa stans is that they stay in their echo chambers with their made up headcanons so that when they do venture outside that chamber to posts by other readers on the tag using the books, they are shocked and think there is some sort of unfair crusade going on against their fave.

I am not saying staying within fandom spaces is totally wrong btw. We all curate our fandom experiences on Tumblr. This app in particular allows us to block out ships or opinions we don’t particularly like. I am sure my group of mutuals and fans, including me, who reblog and follow posts have a similar kind of groupthink.

However, what’s fascinating with Sansa stans in particular is that Sansa is so much of a self-insert at this point that 90% of the character is headcanons. Her most popular ships are crackships, her relationships with her siblings has been re-written, she is now the underdog and outcast etc.

This has happened to me so many times -  I make a post, a Sansa stan responds saying I am wrong, I don’t know how to read, I am a hater etc., I respond with book quotes and ask them to read the books, I am called uncivil and then immediately blocked (they just have to get that last word in!) Rinse and repeat.

Take the post that got me the above message for example.

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me.”   - Sansa, AGoT

This is really not what happens in that chapter at all. Sansa does not really think of Arya, admits to forgetting about her at the end and it’s only in the next chapter she thinks that Arya may have gotten away on the galley Ned had arranged for them (Which does not happen thanks to Sansa’s tattling of Ned’s plans and Cersei placing Lannister guards on the galley).

At this point Arya is still trapped in KL trying to get out and it’s only been 3 days since Ned has been arrested. However, as per this person, Sansa is begging them not to torture and kill her and therefore names Arya, who she thinks is already safe in Winterfell, 3 days after the Starks and their men are taken down....

In the OP, I have used the most basic quotes, but in the actual chapter it’s far worse. Sansa is actually still dreaming of marrying beautiful prince Joffrey when she is taken to meet Cersei:

That night Sansa dreamt of Joffrey on the throne, with herself seated beside him in a gown of woven gold. She had a crown on her head, and everyone she had ever known came before her, to bend the knee and say their courtesies.

“Sweet Sansa,” Queen Cersei said, laying a soft hand on her wrist. “Such a beautiful child. I do hope you know how much Joffrey and I love you.”

“You do?” Sansa said, breathless. Littlefinger was forgotten. Her prince loved her. Nothing else mattered. (---)

“She is a sweet thing now, but in ten years, who can say what treasons she may hatch?”

“No,” Sansa said, horrified. “I’m not, I’d never … I wouldn’t betray Joffrey, I love him, I swear it, I do.” (---)

“And yet, I fear that Lord Varys and the Grand Maester have the right of it. The blood will tell. I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son.”

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me. I’m good, ask Septa Mordane, she’ll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey’s loyal and loving wife.” - Sansa, AGoT

And then at the very end of the chapter:

It was not until later that night, as she was drifting off to sleep, that Sansa realized she had forgotten to ask about her sister. - Sansa, AGoT

So yes, Sansa is scared of not being able to marry Joffrey anymore, frightened of being accused as a traitor like her father and therefore throws out Arya’s name as the traitor - when as far as she knows Arya is in KL and Lannisters could have Arya, the same as her.

Next,

This is the funniest part! - ‘I haven’t read these books in a few years, however, it’s you who is very much lacking reading comprehension’ 😂😂😂

Make it make sense please. And then we are back to the usual Sansa is just a child, she’s 11 goddammit! She’s a teeny tiny baby! It’s totally justified for her to throw her even younger 9 year little sister under the bus as a traitor to be tortured or killed by the likes of Joffrey and Cersei instead of her.

And then finally, the predictable conclusion:

And block! 

Because of course made up headcanons are ‘alternative interpretations’ and if we point out it’s fanfiction then we are being uncivil.

I can only say that I am glad that my side of the fandom don’t engage in this much fanfiction, projections and headcanons. It’s frustrating as a book fan to be told that I lack reading comprehension because I don’t accept their ‘alternative interpretations’ of how Sansa thinks Arya is safe in Winterfell three days after the Lannisters massacred all the Stark men and imprisoned Ned stark. And while Arya herself is still stuck inside KL unable to leave.

At this point I really do think there is no point in engaging with these stans because they are not doing this in good faith. Just block rather than waste time discussing. They seem to think that we need to accept their headcanons as book canon and if we don’t then we are simply anti Sansa posting anti Sansa stuff on the tags. It’s certainly a fascinating fandom aspect of a self insert fan favorite. It’s the reason she wins polls above more complex and well written characters in the books, the popular version of her is entirely about what fans project onto the character rather then actual written version in the books.

[namorthesubmariner]

Let me preface this by saying that this response is not an attack on you, but a more general response to the many times I've seen these fandom opinions over my years as a Namor fan, and I personally do not care about the NamorSue ship at all. As a Namor fan, this sucks for many reasons, but rather than just leave it there I will explain why:

It’s weird to imagine since Namor is very different from his comic counterpart. He's actually not. At all. Comic!Namor's people were a indigenious racially ambiguous fictional sea people before they were made into Atlanteans, the original creator didn't want them to be from Atlantis when he first created them. Mcu!Namor is very solidly based on the early interpretation of the character. But instead of it being a racially ambiguous native people, they gave them a real world mesoamerican background. Read "Namor was never White to begin with" in which I explain to fans why Comic!Namor has always been coded as a biracial man. The only people who think Namor is different from comics to movie is the people who never actually know the character or base their knowledge of him on the ReedSueNamor drama in F4/other comics, when in his own comics he has a very different consistent characterization that isn't changed the instant Susan appears.

Tenoch's portrayal of Namor is exactly like his comic counterpart save for a major difference: His Talokanil people actually love Namor, the comic Atlanteans despise him for being a "half breed" so comic!Namor only had Lady Dorma, Namora, and his mother Princess Fen, treat him kindly. Everything else about Tenoch!Namor is literally ripped out of the comics, A warrior poet king who does art and wages war to protect his people? Namor in the comics does this, he creates art, he is a protector of his people, his very name in Atlantean means "Avenging Son" which his mother gave him. He is meant to grow up, be the protector and avenging son of his people. Namor is son of Talokan, as he is the son of Atlantis. It's literally the same character on screen as is in the comics, except as I said, we are now in an era where we don't have to be ambiguous about Namor's origins. The real world translation works so much better and allows the character to be seen for what he's always been. Other than that, other notable similarities: Namor's dark humor to Shuri is the same as his dry/dark humor in the comics. Namor putting his people before himself, his own body on the line, namor doing everything he can to protect his people/their lives. Namor being a princely figure etc. It's the same character and frankly anyone who says it's not, is wrong. The characterization of Namor on screen is the most accurate adaptation of any comic character I've ever seen.

So how would this work? Because right now, I’m just imagining Namor saying, “I hate all colonizers!” before he sees Susan Storm. He then says, “I hate all colonizers…but she’s alright with me!”

On a more serious note, if the writers are willing to dig deep and make this work, I can picture a storyline in which Namor and Sue are forced to spend time together. Maybe Sue is taken to Talokan because Johnny got captured by Namor’s people, so she’s there to negotiate his release. Namor then starts talking about how much he hates the surface world and so on and so forth. But through his interactions with Sue, he slowly starts to soften his perspective since he’s won over by Sue’s kindness and empathy. And, obviously, he thinks she’s gorgeous because she’s Vanessa Kirby. Basically…Beauty and the Beast (but Beast isn’t cursed). Yes, let's get serious: Susan being taken to Talokan because Johnny was captured is literally beat for beat: Shuri demands to be taken to Talokan because Riri was captured. It's literally the same. Why would we ever need to repeat that in service to a subpar ship? Yes, I do call NamorSue subpar, it's actually a horrid ship for Namor's character, it's done nothing to aid his character because he is just used as a tool for ReedSue: A brief explainer on the ReedSueNamor drama is linked here and I will be releasing a longer meta piece on that subject in the future. Another thing to note here: Susan was never the one who shows namor a different path/changes Namor's mind about humanity. It was Betty Dean.

I am actually very tired of fans erasing Betty Dean and her importance in the comics to Namor over Susan. Betty was Namor's actual first surface friend, his actual first love interest, a character who was among the very early women in comics who had her own agency and was not tied down to a romance. Sue's compassion to Namor is literally shown as "Hey maybe you three (the rest of the F4) shouldn't fight against 1 person, 3:1, because it's unfair." She recognizes that Namor was a tormented person, and thinks he deserves better, she had a slight crush on him once and it was over. Betty Dean is the actual person who talks to Namor, who tells him "not all human are bad" Susan never does this. Again, brief explainer: Betty Dean was a undercover cop working in New York when Namor starts making trouble in town, she is called in to try and capture/stop him. She pretends to drown when she sees him and Namor upon seeing her says "you are too pretty to die, even though you are an american" he saves her only for her to put a gun to his head, Namor thinks to use Betty against her people but before that goes any further war is upon them. Namor goes off to fight, and comes back after, where Betty talks to Namor about his hatred for humanity and asks him to join in their fight in the war against the Nazis, yes, Namor was the first comic character to be featured fighting Nazis. Namor talks to her about the harm her people have done, and in the end takes her words under consideration, returns home to speak to his tribe elders (his grandfather, Emperor Tha-Korr) and goes to join in the war to help Betty. It's Betty who reaches out to Namor, who tries to talk with him, who becomes his life long friend, and yes I do mean until she's an old woman. She and Namor lost touch for several decades but she reappears in the comics as an old woman, who is still Namor's friend and she even becomes the adopted mother to his cousin, Nita. (Namora's daughter)

"Beauty and the Beast but the beast isnt cursed" like, I don't want to say this but I will say this: That's racist, that is reducing Tenoch!Namor to a beast, a man of color being in that role when he's already faced so much fucking racism from fans? No. I say this as a fan who has devoured every type of Beauty and the Beast story since I was a kid, it's actually one of my most favorite dynamics in writing. I do not want that for Namor, ever. Because he's never a beast, he is a Noble Prince/King of a people who lost everything, their homes, their lives, to colonizers, whether they be Spanish Colonizers or White American Colonizers like in the comics. He's a Protector of this people and the Seas. He has his own romances that actually matter to his character and lore, and the women aren't treated as objects to lust over. He had 3 long term love interests in all his 80 some years of comics that are constantly being ignored so people can prop up NamorSue. Namor was married twice. He was widowed twice. In addition to Betty Dean, there's also Lady Dorma, Namor's first wife, and Marrina Smallwood, Namor's second wife. On another note: I just realized that this would be a love triangle in which two Latino men are fighting over a white woman. Make of that what you will.

I will make of this what I will: It's also racist. This entire thing plays on Namor being the "Aggressive Latino Lover" to Reed being the "wholesome husband" and yes the Sexually Aggressive Man of Color perusing a white woman is literally what NamorSue is in the comics, that's how it's written, no one wanted to see it because Namor had white passing skin, but when you read it it's there. Not to mention that no one ever brings up the fact that all throughout the years of Namor being used as a tool for ReedSue drama, it's hurt his character to the point where Fanon depicts him as hopelessly obsessively in love/lust with Susan, when she is never a major factor in any of his comics. I always tell fans that Namor in his own comics is different that Namor being written for F4 drama with ReedSue because writers are literally never letting that drama die, it makes marvel money, regardless if it's been overdone, regardless if its been explored in many different AUs, regardless if there was never anything there other than bad writing. NamorSue has always been to the determent of Namor's characterization in service to ReedSue.

Also as a final sidenote: If people actually read the comics they would know that Namor 1. gave his blessing for ReedSue getting married/gave them gifts 2. Helped ReedSue get back together twice when their marriage was on the rocks 3. Namor was raped by a shapeshifter wearing Sue's face, and Susan stops Namor from killing Llyra (woman who murdered dorma and namor's father and raped him), like why would anyone still think after all this that just because writers have 1 note for Namor in F4 comics which is "namor makes a pass at susan because she is so beautiful, and so white, and so beautiful" that NamorSue is a good ship or something that should be explored when it's been done to literal death in the comics.

Anyways, I do wish fans would actually take the time to understand the widely spread Fanon about Namor is wrong, and that we do not need to ever see ReedSueNamor drama in the movies or even the comics. I will actually put a plea out here to fans to please stop and think about this before promoting it. Like I do not care if people want to ship stuff on their own, I won't go into those ship spaces, but I do want people to understand that many fans keep repeating the same takes over and over again and it's wrong.

As a Namor fan: Keep that shit NamorSue ship out of the movies forever, he doesn't need that. He is a great character on his own and Susan does deserve to constantly be reduced to a sexual object 2 men fight over, as Marvel's leading lady of comics she deserves much better.

Okay, here’s a thought. If the next Fantastic Four movie attempts to do the Namor-Sue-Reed love triangle, how would that even work? For convenience sake, let’s say the F4 ended up in the MCU after discovering multiversal travel. And when they land on MCU Earth, they encounter Namor.

It’s weird to imagine since Namor is very different from his comic counterpart. His focus is primarily on fighting the surface world/colonizers since he’s still scarred from how the Spanish treated his people. And the MCU’s version of his name is now supposed to be “El Niño sin Amor”, the boy without love. See the dilemma? You’re taking someone who’s supposed to be without love and putting him in a love triangle lol.

(Before I get any comments, I know they didn’t mean romantic love. I’m just saying, it’s kinda funny that the character without love is now in a storyline all about love)

So how would this work? Because right now, I’m just imagining Namor saying, “I hate all colonizers!” before he sees Susan Storm. He then says, “I hate all colonizers…but she’s alright with me!”

On a more serious note, if the writers are willing to dig deep and make this work, I can picture a storyline in which Namor and Sue are forced to spend time together. Maybe Sue is taken to Talokan because Johnny got captured by Namor’s people, so she’s there to negotiate his release. Namor then starts talking about how much he hates the surface world and so on and so forth. But through his interactions with Sue, he slowly starts to soften his perspective since he’s won over by Sue’s kindness and empathy. And, obviously, he thinks she’s gorgeous because she’s Vanessa Kirby. Basically…Beauty and the Beast (but Beast isn’t cursed).

And then, Namor being Namor, he demands that Sue leave Reed Richards and stay with him in Talokan. If not, something something I’ll defeat your husband in mortal combat for your hand in marriage blah blah blah. And then Reed’s gotta fight Namor, Sue makes it a point that she chose Reed, Namor is too stubborn to take the hint, and so on and so forth.

(Side note: I just realized that this would be a love triangle in which two Latino men are fighting over a white woman. Make of that what you will.)