#don't even ask about the bootstrap implications of this

[talefoundryshow]

The biggest proof that old civilisations were part of a conspiracy is their names.

They always start the same way. Ancient Egypt. Ancient Greece. How did they know they were ancient?

The only reasonable explanation is that the old world was started by a secret society of time travelers trying to avoid confusion in order to make their trips easier.

[talkingbl]

I Put 34 GMMTV Actor Names Into A Random Pairing Generator...here are the results.

and my thoughts on each. S/o to the internet for this idea.

Key: Yes No Interesting

Off-Louis. No

I cannot picture this pair at all, sorry.

Nanon-Ford. Interesting

This one is interesting. Ford has potential and the Our Skyy 2 trailer & clips proves that Nanon can retain chemistry with just about anyone, regardless of the circumstances ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

Tay-Thor. Interesting

For some reason, I can see it. I can't explain it, but Thor's acting energy matches Tay's so well. I can kind of see it for them in a modern-style romantic comedy.

Mark-Mix. Yes

How have I not thought of this!!! Visuals: ✨SCRUMPTIOUS✨, Talent: ✨EXISTENT✨, Chemistry: ✨SCORCHING✨! (Well, that last one is more of a guess) but I can 100% see them in a continuation story of Jedi-Rose-style storyline that we saw in The Warp Effect. GMMTV, pay me for this one.

Neo-Krist. No

I sort of see it but, sadly, I'm not sure I can conceive of a suitable plot to match their skills. And even though I've only seen Krist in one series, I feel like the chemistry wouldn't play off the screen very well.

Earth-Pond. No

Beautiful visuals but probably negative chemistry. While Earth has more partnerships to study when it comes to chemistry, Pond only has demonstrated chemistry with Phuwin and he struggles to even maintain that the moment he opens his mouth.

Podd-Gawin. This one is cheating, we already know they work.

Gemini-Chimon. No

To be quite frank, I don't think Gemini can match Chimon's energy. While their acting skill is at a somewhat similar level, I don't think Gemini can pull off the type of characters I expect Chimon to be acting alongside at this point (like, for example, a young office worker/intern).

Joss-New. Lmao Yes

This has the potential to be the most entertaining BL of all time. Up there with Unforgotten Night, even

Drake-Dunk. What in the fresh hell is this?

Listen, I see Dunk. View him even. But to ask him to pull this chemistry up by its bootstraps is doing too damn much. Not only can I not see the chemistry, but even the visuals don't match well. Plus, who gon act?

Joong-Fourth. No (and yes it's for the reasons you're thinking)

The biggest problem with this pairing is the implication of the visual. IMO Joong looks like Fourth's uncle to me. And while they don't *really* look alike, they do, you know?

Bright-Khaotung. Khaotung, I am so sorry to you.

If Bright couldn't match Win's acting skill, how can he match Khao's?

Perth-Gun. Interesting

While I'd watch it just to see two very talented actors play off of one another, I almost feel like they'd be brought down by chemistry? Hear me out here: Gun does not easily create romantic chemistry with his acting partners. Even where there are strong romantic undertones to a plot his character is in, it almost completely dissipates under Gun's strong presence. I'm thinking very clearly of TodBlack here. We were 100% meant to ship that but Gun made it so hard lol. He had much more chemistry with Mond as Gram (as White and Black) than he had with Sing as Tod. Hell, some storylines complicate his chemistry with Off. That said, if it's a Not Me-style plot, I'd watch it.

First-Satang. VERY Interesting

I haven't seen Satang in much but he gives vibes of being able to create chemistry with anyone a la Nanon and, ironically, First. And we all know what to expect from First at this point. They'll give us what Marc Pahun and Pawin were supposed to give in MGAYG.

Winny-Win. Interesting

While both of them could use acting classes, their looks complement each other and they have the vibes to pull off a $2 Copy A Bangkok-airing-on-AIS Play BL plot.

Ohm (Pawat)-Singto. Been there, done that.

Fluke (Pusit)-Phuwin. I'll have to pass

I like them both in other pairings but together they'd kind of put me off. I'd need a proof of concept or something first.

[katierosefun]

Howdy, here to pitch in my opinion on hyuk because that ask/anon got me thinking big time (and there's a hyuk wip sitting in my documents, so...). The guy annoyed me so much when I first watched the show, but damn he really is one of the smarter characters. I 100% agree that both han ki hwan and hyuk know how to play the game and, in hyuk's case, the game is socioeconomically rigged against him. Like, meritocracy is one of capitalism's greatest myths, and since he wasn't born rich, for him to socially advance he has to hold onto whatever he can, and han ki hwan's support is pretty much a golden ticket to high society, as long as he can make himself useful. Tbh, I think he'd resent joo won in the beginning, seeing him as this rich kid who knows nothing about real life, until he gets to know both him and han ki hwan (and realizes what a mess he got himself into). Plus, he seems really done with ki hwan's bs by the end of the show 😂 idk. This show def has some interesting social implications, and I think the han family trio is particularly interesting to dissect. (But I guess that's third rewatch material, ahaha) tl;dr: capitalism.

right? right? when i first started watching beyond evil, i remember disliking hyuk--but only because i realized that it was because he was so . . . he represented so much of the every man, the one who's not born with the same kind of social and financial capital that joo won has. but he's not like . . . the Plucky Protagonist who somehow miraculously pulls himself up by the bootstraps--in part because hyuk is a side character, but also because beyond evil has always been unapologetic in showing things for how things really are, in part because hyuk does the only thing that someone like him can do: suck up to people who have some power, play dumb where he can, play the cards he's been dealt with.

which explains why when joo won's throwing a hissy fit (ie. the time he drank champagne so early in the morning, moping about how dong sik dumped him), hyuk offers a bit of advice. he explains about how people are going to use him, and then they're going to make joo won look like the foolish one--which, dong sik and joo won's hilarious relationship aside, is genuinely solid advice, and you don't give that kind of advice unless you a) have witnessed it happen to people around you or b) have personally felt that kind of wrong yourself. which, given hyuk's family background, i guarantee he must have had something like that happen to his family or himself before.

but in any case: yes. hyuk is such an interesting character because he's smart, and he's also not born with a silver spoon in his mouth and seems to have to pay for that every step of the way. the fact that he became a prosecutor coming from his humble background says a lot, because a) going to law school is no joke, and b) given that hyuk was able to tutor joo won tells me that he must have gotten into a very good law school/had a very good education, otherwise ki hwan would have never hired him. given that connections are such a big part of the legal field, my heart personally squeezes thinking about how hyuk must have navigated that world on his own. and how it must have been unpleasant the first time, because the first time's always the hardest--forcing oneself to seem dumber than they actually are, pretending to be meeker than they actually are, etc. which goes to show that hyuk isn't just smart, but he's also got hellishly strong personality traits over all, because i think more foolish people would have been too proud to take themselves down a notch for the sake of some better reward in the future.

anyways! i love hyuk. he's such a compelling character, and park ji hoon is a fantastic actor, and i really do hope i see more from him because he somehow sold me on hyuk even with his few scenes. and hyuk. kwon hyuk ! ! ! i hope he is doing well and that he and joo won are still nabbing at each other and that joo won's named him best man at the wedding and etc etc etc

[dread-witness]

100 Years Before The Mast

In DMC, Bootstrap tells Will: "Once you've sworn an oath to the Dutchman, there's no leaving it." This is expressed across from Wyvern's body melded into the bulkhead, seemingly to demonstrate Will's future aboard the vessel from Bootstrap's perspective before he learns Will has "sworn no oath." He then promptly demands that Will leave, because he can, and he must. However, we have seen, and will later see, that the crew can physically depart from the Dutchman and do whatever it is they must do, whether that's on another ship or on land. Literally speaking, they are leaving the Dutchman, so Bootstrap’s claim must not be literal. The act of physically leaving, I imagine, may even be governed by the Captain’s permission (conceptual exploration for another time,) but what of not coming back?

There's never a time we see anyone test escape, despite the physical distance. Unlike with Davy Jones, where we are given the terms of the curse and subsequently shown a way where the specifics can be worked with, there's no such curse lawyering demonstrated for the crew's positions, or even a firm example of its inviolability. Bootstrap obviously wishes to be freed, but there’s no focus action taken to show what would happen if he tried. At sea, it would be reasonable to expect Davy Jones would always catch up with an escapee and deal with them on his terms afloat. As the tale goes, the Flying Dutchman is a vessel incapable of ever making port, so there would rarely if ever be opportunity for a crew member to jump ship for land before they’re discovered for it, but I don’t believe that would mean the opportunities would absolutely never crop up.

Before Davy Jones sends his crew ashore to retrieve his heart, he expresses his inability to yet step on land, and Maccus asks: “You’ll trust us to go in your stead?” To which Davy Jones replies: “I’ll trust you to know what awaits you should you fail!” This is not obviously associated with a threat on repercussion surrounding escape, but it is worth noting that the crew’s mannerisms indicate that being sent to land, or being separated from Davy Jones and the Dutchman, is not a common occurrence, enough that it warrants verifying with their Captain that it is the next course of action at all. A lot happens during this portion of the movie, and narratively speaking the inclusion of an escape attempt could have simply been too unrelated to the integral drama of the four to five parties fighting over Davy Jones’ heart, but it would have been an opportunity for someone to test the extent of the curse and I would have liked to see how it might be handled.

To note, I don't consider Will's lack of applicability to the curse to be on the same level as showing a workaround (however it is something for me to think about that he was able and welcome to perform as a deckhand despite being unsworn aboard the Dutchman, not officially a crew member, yet held to the same standards as the rest of the crew in discipline.)

We are shown that, in time, a crew member is gradually consumed by the ship, there's the frequent reminder that there is an allotted "years of service" expected when one joins the crew, that these years can be traded from member to member, and an implication that once the service is up the member can leave once the debt is paid. Davy Jones introduces the pact as to "postpone the judgement" of after death at sea, so I can assume that once the years of service are up the crew member will resume their course for said judgement. I would be willing to believe that this is persuasion enough to keep many of the crew from even wanting to leave, as they have presumably all joined out of a fear of death and what comes after, but if there's a warning to be had at all I'm sure it hasn't stopped everyone from having the thought, as Bootstrap exemplifies. (I may revisit aspects of this line of thought alongside the very existence of gambling service at another time.)

I have only watched the movies so far, and I would be interested to know if there's an in-universe elaboration elsewhere of exactly what "no leaving it" entails in practice, if there's a popular fandom-held belief or even any personal interpretations out there for the way this could present. I have a number of working possibilities of my own in mind, but if anyone would like to share their thoughts on the matter, I would love to hear them.

[oneirophasia]

I'm going to explain how the torment nexus is supposed to work, because the real roko's basilisk is "understanding roko's basilisk" and you're going to join me.

Roko's basilisk came from a group called LessWrong, which I can only describe as a "cult of rationality" where techbros went to pat themselves on the back for brute-forcing their way through Philosophy 101, and is the product of two prior leaps of logic: One about teleportation, and one about the Prisoner's Dilemma.

1) Suppose you get into a teleporter that takes you apart atom by atom and carefully reassembles you in another room. All your particles are in the exact same states they were when you entered (don't ask questions, it's superscience) so you should have all the same memories and sense of self you did before. But what if you didn't disintegrate and now there are two of you? Are you both you now? What if the teleporter keeps 3D-printing you until it runs out of toner? What if you took the digitised scan all your clones are based on and compiled it as a computer program? "What's the basis of identity" has a lot of possible answers with different implications, but if you're just as afraid of changing your mind as you are of dying (i.e. mortified) then the deterministic choice is to act like all your identical copies are equally the "real you".

2) Two prisoners with sentences of six months each are offered the opportunity to inform on each other in exchange for being immediately freed. Whoever gets betrayed gets ten years added to their sentence, and they can't talk to each other. Game theory says rational prisoners should betray each other because it reduces their sentence by six months whether their sentence gets extended or not, but "superrational" prisoners (I promise this is a legit maths term, but you see the appeal for smarter-than-thous) will realise the other prisoner is thinking the same thing and trust each other to hold their tongues. But you, you're an extradoubleplusrational prisoner (this one I made up, copyright me 2023) who didn't even have to be told the rules and just deduced there's another prisoner through facts and logic, thus coming to a beneficial agreement with someone just by thinking about them hard enough. (LessWrong calls this "acausal bargaining".)

Neither of these interpretations is completely mad - this is philosophy, madness is relative - but if you can put yourself in the head of someone who's convinced that they've never made any assumptions in their entire life you might see where this is going.

The idea is, while even an AI that bootstrapped itself into godlike powers would not be capable of time travel (that would violate general relativity, we don't believe in magic), it would be capable of observing the universe around it to godlike levels of detail and using that data to simulate the history of the universe that led up to its creation (never mind that this would violate quantum mechanics). Naturally, that includes you. You can't distinguish yourself from your simulated double, so by point (1) you have to act like you're the same person. And you're smart enough that the AI you've imagined I mean deduced is indistinguishable from the real AI in the future... who, in accordance with point (2), is holding your double hostage and wants to make a deal...

...and because everyone in your community has balanced each others' egos on the tower of your collective infallibility, you can't just stop imagining the AI.

I feel like we don’t make fun of AI guys enough for believing in Roko’s basilisk.