Hello, saw some of your anti c//a that mention how you think c//a is a bad enemies-to-lovers ship while griddlehark is a good one, and may i ask how that is? Genuine question, because i don’t like c//a, and i’m neutral on griddlehark (mainly because I don’t know much atm), from what i’ve seen/heard, it seems like it’s a lot more toxic of a dynamic than c//a is initially/pre canon? Again not trying to bait, am gen curious /genuine
This is going to be kind of disjointed, and I apologise, but this is kind of a topic that defies a simple summary.
Bear in mind that ahead be big Locked Tomb spoilers and the SP0P spoilers that basically everyone already knows.
I would say that the two critical differences are 1) the handling of the toxicity within the narrative, and 2) the structure and arrangement of the toxicity.
You are absolutely correct that pre-canon Griddlehark's mutual hatred is a toxic dynamic. They initially detest each other with a passion; one of the main plot points driving the entire series is a young Harrow having Gideon's blood under her nails after a fight.
As Gideon and Harrowhark work together, however - and here is the point where 100% of bad enemies-to-lovers arcs crash and burn - the toxicity goes down. It never becomes totally healthy - indeed, post-GtN Harrow invents an entirely new way to have an unhealthy relationship, involving performing brain surgery on herself at 17 - but the majority of the narrative is spent showing them moving from "would piss on the other's grave given the chance" to a mutually tolerated working relationship, to a growing loyalty, to the pool scene where Harrow shows Gideon more honesty and trust than she's had from anyone in her life. A lot of what makes this work is pacing and structure; every new step works because it's building on the previous ones, none of them feeling jarringly fast or unmotivated.
More than that, a big help is that the toxicity feels intentional. The relationship being Kinda Fucked is a 100% intentional thing that I'm pretty sure I've seen Tamsyn Muir talking about in interviews. It's a narrative element that Muir is monitoring and adjusting with the care of a good zookeeper trying to keep the humidity in the reptile enclosure exactly right.
(I genuinely cannot praise the writing in these books enough.)
Turning to SP0P as a contrast, its relationship has a more understated toxicity, but a much more pervasive one. Young Adora and C*tra weren't clawing at each other's faces whenever left unsupervised, but young C*tra sure did claw at Adora's face for wanting to have more than one friend! It's not the PVP arena of Growing Up Griddlehark, but "you are my friend, therefore your needs are subordinate to mine" is still far from a healthy dynamic, and the narrative never addresses it.
The bigger problem, though, is that the toxicity doesn't so much "go down" as trace out a parabola. The entire first half of the narrative shows the toxicity going up sharply, to the point of C*tra being willing to die just to make Adora miserable, then it hovers there for another quarter, and then it returns to an earlier level of toxicity. S5 C*tra's treatment of Adora stays awful. She spends "Taking Control" throwing a tantrum over how the real problem is Adora and the others being mad at her; she portrays herself as the wounded party in her like four separate murder attempts on Adora in "An Ill Wind" to produce the worst line of the show; she continues throwing tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants and making everything about herself right up to the love confession, including that confession ("stay with me, the person who spent four seasons refusing to stay with you!"). It feels bizarre that Adora goes from "even if you're my best friend, I won't let you blame me for shit that isn't my fault" in S4 to doing nothing but looking sad when C*tra portrays her as being in the wrong for not just meekly standing by while C*tra burned down her home and murdered her friends.
And - and I'll acknowledge that a big part of this is probably executive fuckery, I just don't think that really matters - the pacing and structure absolutely are not helping. I could buy S5's sudden reversal if C*tra and Adora had had a fun, weightless enmity where there was an obvious respect between them. They don't. C*tra spends a truly distressing amount of time utterly consumed by the desire to cause Adora as much pain as possible, to the point of attempting a murder-suicide on the entire world. No point in S2-S4 shows a C*tra who Can't Bring Herself to Really Hurt Adora, regardless of the things the stans have convinced themselves they saw; she's so totally driven by spite that she tears her own life to shreds in the hope Adora will be caught up in the edges. The relationship has to do a sudden R*ylo swerve rather than building on what's gone before because "what's gone before" is like three plot points in the first season that have been narratively overwhelmed by C*tra's multiseason campaign of cruelty like a single pea being weighed against the USS Nimitz.
This is where intentionality comes into play. The toxicity in c/a is just there. For all the bullshit about C*tra's story being about what happens when you're the toxic friend, it doesn't feel like an intentional narrative element that is seriously being examined; it feels like a writing fuck-up where C*tra was supposed to feel like way less of a stalker asshole.
Anyway, I hope this has made some vague semblance of sense, but I've been at this for like an hour and I'm tired and I need to go check on a craft project.
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i’m a survivor too, and i found that certain scenes/stuff will said just really struck me as ‘csa-survivor’-like? i felt a bit uncomfortable about headcanoning it happening to someone else, especially for a fandom as wild as this one, but your metas have really been a comfort to me because they’ve been able to pick out and explain things that i couldn’t necessarily find the words for myself.
and yeah, i would love to have a character like me that is powerful and who finds love and who gets a happy ending. the people who call the theory disgusting always kinda hit wrong with me because although csa is a difficult subject, we shouldn’t be ashamed about sharing it. they sound like they’re trying to say that it’s a bad topic to talk about and implying that it can’t happen to kids, which uhhhhh-
(i’m sure that’s not what they mean, precisely, but it’s still what they sound like, and i wish that they would stop implying that we can’t exist, especially in popular media. we do, and i’m not gonna pretend we don’t, and if they feel uncomfortable with the topic they can just use the block button. we deserve to have some well written representation just as much as anyone else. also, i really really hope that will gets a happy ending.)
anywayyyy i love your theories and i can see your post in the tag so i think you’re fine?? have a good day ❤️❤️❤️
SORRY, this ask took so long to respond to. It always warms my heart to hear other survivors speak and say they found comfort in my theory.
Yes, I think I and a lot of c*a/r*pe victims (subconscious or otherwise) were triggered by some of the symbolism/visuals in s1-3. And s3 made it hard for most of us to ignore the past imagery- since s3 wasn’t as subtle.
I get why people have reservations about the theory. But the debates to the contrary are usually just plain offensive. Or people trying to be respectful but being the opposite. There’s the obvious bad-apples . I got many anons after part 1 of my DID theory saying it “ruined/tainted byler”, and “if that happened to Will i’ll stop shipping byler” , or that it “ruins the best gay character” , and to “remove the post immediately”. And this was when I was open about being a gay c*a victim. I obviously blocked them. Many survivors don’t come forward because they’re afraid people will see them as “tainted”, “ruined”, “ just their trauma”, or blame them for what happened. So yeah, it pisses me off when people say similar stuff about Will (and thus other c*a victims). Not even diving into the messed up psychology about byler/mileven shippers (knowing i was a lesbian c*a victim) but purposely spreading bs rumors about me being a p*do that was into Will/Noah-all because of the theory. -_-
Then there’s the people who try to be “respectful” but literally do the opposite.
I’ve heard numerous times it’s somehow “less offensive” to just use r*pe imagery to make monsters scary. Rather than have the monsters have that imagery cause Will created the monsters from his memory/imagination-and st is a story of Will healing from that trauma. SORRY- I disagree. Using the worst experiences of peoples’ lives (and triggering their trauma) for no real purpose- except to make their monsters scarier to the normal/general audience who haven’t gone through it so won’t be triggered like us - is MORE OFFENSIVE to victims! NOT LESS! At least to me.
Then there’s the people who say “c*a should never be talked about (in stories).” Which I disagree with. V*ctims have already been told by ab*ser’s and enablers of the ab*ser- to never talk about what happened to us . So it rubs A LOT of us the wrong way when people say this. Because (subconscious or not) you remind some of us of the people who used to hurt/silence us. People say this -simply for their convenience (like ab*sers) and cause deep down they’re uncomfortable with our existence and equate the despicable act to us the innocent v*ctim ...or just want to deny the horrible reality of the situation (like many enablers who deny the truth and hurt us because they don’t want to accept reality) . And 1) It brings us back to a time where they told us to NEVER talk about it- and makes us feel like we did something wrong when we didn’t! 2) Every psych professional says with-holding/keeping the ab*se a secret is detrimental to our mental health.
Plus, there’s a HUGE difference between sugarcoating/minimizing trauma or WORSE glamorizing, condoning, or romanticizing C*A in stories (ex: pretty little liars) VS showing how the action is wrong, causes trauma, but showing recovery and happiness is still possible for v*ctims. if the story shows how accurately traumatizing it is (instead of minimizing/glamorizing it)- it’s incredibly rare for that character to get a happy ending. Having a story about recovering from that type of trauma and finding happiness despite such hardships would be amazing for US survivors! We rarely get stories with a happy ending- it’s more harmful to us survivors to never see ourselves get happy endings in tv/film/books. How can some survivors (in a dark place) think there’s a light at the end of the tunnel- if it’s never shown?Also if Will has DID too- it’s good mental health rep, along with queer rep (and survivor’s rep.) All 3 groups rarely are treated well or get happy endings in media. A lot of people may feel more heard, seen, and a bit more hopeful for the future - If Will (and other characters) get a happy ending.
And even though st has many themes- like say homophobia. To try and hand-wave all the disturbing r*pe imagery away as ‘Will is just gay so the monsters are like that”. IS SOOOOOO offensive. Trigger warning for examples. I’m sorry what part of Max saying when Billy had c*nsensual s*x it’s “good screams” but when possessed by the mf he causes Heather to do “bad screams” read as gay???! Having the possessed ch*ke/dr*g people before throwing them in trunks (like it’s implied Lonnie did to Will -since Jonathan checked Lonnie’s trunk for Will in s1)?Tying their arms and legs up/ g*ging them and getting on top of them and saying “stay VERY still it’ll all be over soon”-before a monster shoves it’s tentacle into someone’s mouth and inserts a goo - just gay??? Similar to the sentient vine/shadow monster forcing itself down Will’s throat. Let alone Will saying things like “he made me do it”, “i felt it everywhere”, or being tied to a bed and screaming “help! stop! it hurts! let me go!” While Jonathan is the only one who’s visibly triggered by this and has to literally turn away and hug someone . Or barb, billy, and El spiting up a white liquid from their mouth (similar to will spitting up a slug and lying to his mother about it ).El/billy touching a suspicious looking slime with their hand and looking at the substance confused . El drawing Papa with 3 legs (the middle one being shorter) , trying to undress in front of the boys , and Benny saying “I think she’s been ab*sed or something”.The theme of ab*sive dads- brenner , Lonnie, and Neil . Even when the demogorgan (called in d&d the “deep father”/ in the show “a man without a face”) attacked Barb it’s chopped up with scenes of Nancy having c*nsensual sex (the monsters are doing the opposite symbolically). There’s way more examples but NO- to try and hand wave /equate ALL OF THIS to just “gay imagery” or an “a*ds metaphor” is WAY more problematic. And just offensive (specifically to gay people) than just admitting what it may actually represent. R*pe imagery and gay imagery is NOT THE SAME THING!
Also ST has never been a kid show- maybe rewatch the show and see the rating of tv-14 . Goodness sake- s1 has a st*ged su*icde, k*dnappings, m*rder, discussions of physics, h*mophobia, and s*x (with stancy in s1 & jancy in s2-s3). S2/3 discuss at their finalies recovering from tra*ma . S2 had gra*ic de*ths, a man causing a women br*in damage/ and faking her m*scarriage, and a gang of vigalantes k*lling criminals. s3 had critiques on capitalism /media/s*xism, many d*eaths, and questionable imagery like the prior seasons. The Duffers constantly reference movies & events from the 80s (capitalizing on 80s nostalgia /subverting 80s motifs that middle age people from that time remember)! Those people were their intended age demographic . Most 80s centric refs go over most kids’ heads (heck a lot went over my head too since I wasn’t alive in the 80s XD).The Duffers even said in the book “worlds turned upsidedown” “it’s not a kid’s show despite having kids”. And maybe it’s a coincidence but when Lucas in s3 hands Will the “devil’s baby” firework (a hint about Lonnie) he says “18 and over only.” Which idk is a weird/random af line unless it’s foreshadowing that the show will get darker about various themes- and maybe even change ratings.
I get people wishing nothing bad ever happened to Will or Jonathan. And being apprehensive and not trusting the Duffers to do such a story justice (cause it’s difficult to do). But personally i trust them to do so tastefully with tact and not be exp*itative, (overly gr*fic) or offensive to v*ctims. You can disagree and think the show is about something else (or not trust the Duffers)- but it’d be great if people could stop using these other messed up talking points. While trying to appear ‘(fake) woke’ and like they care for victims- cause we see through it that you really don’t.
Have a lovely day anon ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Update- I just really agreed with and appreciate the tags in this reblog
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Clone Wars Shadow Warriors
Seas 4
Oh
this-
just
screams
edgy
...
Whelp
So is Jar
Jar an
adult,
now,?
(Asking because before his
characteri
zation was force of nature to child
Now he
seems to have his own
personality.
Which is fine
if you want to change some details for the sake of a
better story,
(Or to simply
explore
a new
angle,).
Aesthetic
Just.
need to make sure I’m holding them to the right standard,
Okay,
That-
was
relatively
adult,
Mm
Um.
I
Aight
.
.
Well-
Wait
Did they just call Jar Jar
away from
Cou-ncil-
.
I mean they are clearly
trying
which
is
some thing
I do
give credit
for-
Though
The
Tone
Is
Robot-
Ic-
(Though that might be int-
entional since it seems to be hinting that this lady is practicing some kind of
mind tricks on him
(Aka, he’s doing it
under
tox, because we don’t do suspension of choice in
dra-
mat
ic
Me-
-dia,
S’up
What?
I-
-
H-elp
Screw my own
accou-
-ntability
-
See that was the correct
-amount of
emotion-
.
Okay
-
Right-
Sus-
(pic)
No one noticed the obvious people right there?
Like not even
Mr. sus
there?
[or are they just so
kind that it’s like
oh yeah we were just talking hate speech
but go right ahead?
Logic?
There
Yeah
some shit is definitely going on,
For sake of argument*
sake, i’m just going to assume that his reaction to
toxic
behavior
*Account
ability-
Any way
I-
I’m still
going to try,
Despite
you clearly saying you want understood
Because assumed authority
- and assuming you know better than a person about themselves
Is totally ok-
- In this
society
-[Cries
in
sad
“accountability,”
-of-
war,
]
Whelp,
In-
flue-
n
-c
e
Still an
adult-
Okay-
Imagine
it was just a normal necklace
and he pulled that shit-
[Ok for the sake of argument I’m going to assume the necklace is symbolism for toxic influence,
Being around it
enabling]
It-
-
His voice voice dropped like
- 6 octaves
Also I swear if they try to
excuse him
for his actions-
No
Mind over matter
-Okay, so they’re not excusing him for his
-actions,
Me-
an
-
OK so it’s not naturally evil it
just comes down to the users
so that dude was still totally responsible,
Didn’t
change
- much
-
Ha-Ha
Actual
gas
-lighting”
Also
persuade,
-
Okay,
good not excusing him
from his actions,
-
Thing
The
gaslighting goes deep
-
Also isn’t the Darkside supposed to be
negative over involvement?
-
Aight-
-
-
A-lone
Oh yeah that’s a great idea let’s just let the dude that just got gaslighted and completely fell forward go back into the person who did it,
👍
Genius
(This Jedi Council is fucking
brilliant)
Gas-
Light-
Ing
(Note;
Confronting the gas lighter is never the way
to do it
(Inter-
Gen-)
(Excluding accountability of the abuser
(Gen-break
Venting Pro-
Ced- u
re)
[as you’re usually too angry
to let them get a word in edgewise
And remain;
in control)
With inter- gen productivity,
They are possibly given
five warnings before
Being
Kick
ed-]
For the sake of argu-
ment as well
as simplicity-
We’re stick
-ing with
bas-
ic-
If someone’s acting toxic
with you, you
reflect and you don’t have to
hang out with anyone
you don’t want to,
Logic
This dude
is very clearly making it obvious that
he’s willing to listen to this person,
And, enabling
“Cl-”
See he’s gaslighting him again
because
he thinks he can get away with it,
With no
accoun-
tability-
(Or the small bit
this society
believes
in
which is
jail,”
Wr-
Oh!
Is he a
Gungan
Jedi?
Also,
You Don’t
SAY!
(The repeated Gaslighter
who has shown multiple times to be
toxic,
Was toxic,
(And prepared to use any means to
subvert the
will?
Prize
for the
most
in
competent
Je
di
Like,
Serious-
(Really had to put those two
accoun
t-
ability- cells
to good -
use-”
(For
matting
issue-)
The writer just saving us the effort of him coming downstairs -all feckin- weird, and the
obvious
“should’ve seen that coming,
“
?
ha-ha
What?
Oh yeah
no the creepy magical stuff wasn’t enough of a
fecking clue in-
Appar-
Whelp-
He
snapped out of that quick-
Like didn’t even need a
reverse- mind trick
Good for
him-
And - actual-
nar-
rative-
-
Whelp,
Wreck-ing
-house
Okay, but how do you think this is going to look to the general public like two Jedi,( very good at persuasion -
mind tricks’ -just showed up, now they’re leader and said Jedi are wreck-ing one of their minster’s houses-
One who could’ve
feign-
ed lack of support for the
war
Like if this is a
set up-
the chips-
are about to fall,
Da-
Okay, seriously how obviously evil,
was this person?
Like we have a weird creepy room,
The robots apparently hanging from the
chandelier
(eck)
And
the knife
Like if this person
ever-
went-
through a checkpoint
Also,
Oh-
That-
(That
really
does not
look good,)
Bo-ss
Yeah,
she clearly has
medical experience,
(Also yeah
that’s really going to make it
better-”
Oh yeah the
senator was
seen trying to clean up the
evidence-
Well the Jedi ran out
full sword’s- a blazing
(Instead of you know the
Senator chasing after him,
While the peacekeeper stayed behind and tried to
tend to the person,]
Great
-
-
Or
Not-
Well- tensions
just got raised,
Of,
Ai.
Ght,
Whelp,
(Okay, no way he’s totally not dead
but sure-)
A-i-
-
Whe-
That-
sucks-
-
Un-
Con-cious
That-
doesn’t tell me anything else-
Like;
Critical
condition?
D-usk
Li-terally
no one else?
(Like don’t get me wrong I’ve been a pretty big Jar-jar fan ever since the change-)
But really, the Senator, the person that spends the most time away from your - planet
That’s the person,
they trust the most?
Ai-
Hm-
Oh yeah just put on the deadly leaders hat-
The rese-mblance-
Not really?
I mean all humans technically
look the same-
But-
Pretty sure Jar jar is a lot
scrawn-
thin
-er
Also if they’re not going to listen to him as him
they’re not going to listen to him
as he pretends to be their (dead) leader
Also, please don’t go with the
liar revealed plot,
Yeah no, they have completely different kind of light.
tones,
The face structure-
Co-mpletely
different-
-
Nope
-Dead
Di-ssent
Agree
I-
OK yeah I’m just gonna go over the fact, that as previously state, I am not a huge fan of the liar revealed plot-
-or lying
(No because it’s- unrealistic-
- or there’s anything wrong with it
-people do lie
-maybe because of how overdone and
poorly done it’s been,
-With the liar getting off Scott free without any
weight
But I really don’t like this
plot-
-And
the
skip
button
maybe
used
ad-
nausuem-
-
[Well- shit
[for reference; I was using the skip button ad nausuem when I randomly stopped at the part
with
Greivous
Things just got a whole lot worse]
[Tumblr
Refresh]
-
Any
Way,
Aww,
That’s kind of nice the
friendship and reliance
the dude has on
Other-
Half
-
Yes
‘Boss
Leoni’
when someone gets
tox
you leave-
- In a
- relation
ship-
Also yeah he’s definitely not
‘Boss
Leoni’
-
He would’ve stayed and tried to take the
tox
(Aka Jar-jar is less ena-
bling, les-
tox-
And
Doesn’t
Take
It
For
Much
More.
Than
He
Has
To,
(He’s
les
-s
Dyfun.
-c)
Okay
Good
Job
-
Also - yeah
how’d you manage that
-
That-
Didn’t get
car
ried up the chain of
com-
mand-
-
Then again Gri-
evous has shown to be a pretty
shit boss.
-
So I can’t blame these guys
for being like yeah compl-
ete stranger
I will totally
take a nap
-right
,now-
-
You
kinda
have
sticks-
-
[The rain is
really
nice,]
[is this the first time we’ve seen them use active
particle effects
for the camera?
Either way
it’s really
nice
-
Oh,
They’re
electric
sticks,
That makes
sense
[- bet
ter
for
Figh
t-
In-
g-
Stop one
1v1
-ing-
It
I
W-h
Again this is what happens when you 1v1 it
and
don’t assume accountability-
- -
[Don’t fight a metal cyborg with metal sticks when you’re not prepared to take it, full way,)
I-
[I feel like this is supposed to be some
big build up but they only shared like one scene where dude was completely silent,]
Like,
Sacr-ifice
Die to take someone out with you
[Great
Now
Ouch]
Are
they actually going to kill off
grievous because this isn’t look-ing
too
- good
-
Shit-
Dude-
is still not dead-
-
How?
-
Whelp-
-
Oh,
hey
where the fuck
did you come
from,
I-
Ack.
Br-u-
Tal
W-el
-
Un
-
M
-
Plan-
“ damn it
he messed up the
script-,
-Pal
- patine
Cap-
Prison
break-
Also yeah
that’s probably like
a vacation
for him-
Given
how toxic these assholes
are
-
Ex- change
-
Damn
Ship
per-
Also screw the 150 or how many other
sena
-tors
-
Only
Amidala
-
matters
-
A-
ight-
-
Also, dude knows where everyone’s
lair,
Is,
Like he pissed off Grievous with
-his
Now he’s just chilling in this
dude’s
sipping earl gray
Or-
Some
Shit-
Him
Okay
Getting a little
ahead of yourself
episode-
-
O k
I
Hearing this, Skywalker doesn’t immediately run back
shout
-ing
nope-
- -
Because, to my knowledge the speaking at
room volume,
Not
whispering
and the distance
isn’t enough to
-explain it
-
Ai
- -
Wel-
-
There goes one
min-ion-
-
Droids are apparently
expensive enough to
chastise
Grievous
over-
But sen-tient - beings are
a dime’
a ‘dozen-
(Also
gaslighter’s.
don’t give a shit about
you
dear,
God,
The Painful
dramatic-
irony-
*tra-
gic-
Wh-
-Oa
Ai
-
Ri-
An
Wh-
-elp,
You know if it wasn’t for the exposure
earl-
ier
I would assume they would think that the Jedi was just killing all their Im-por-
tant- elected officials
Why?
Wh-at
He’s right.
-
But dude- that’s pretty
ham fisted-
I mean-
How many episodes
(and
possibly
seasons-)
do we have to
go-
- -
Anakin-
is a dick
to lanterns-
-
Also the random theme of the
bots-
coming out of nowhere-
continues-
-
St
-op-
-
Wh-
elp-
.
?
(He
live?)
I-
?
Good
Play-
Ah-
To-
Oh, yeah,
He’s alive we’re not going to bring that up in any
mention-able way?
Ike
Wh
e
l-
p
Oh
-
That was
-nice-
You deceived everyone and lied to all
our people, you’ll make a great
leader,
Or a great council/
committee leader considering that they do have an open position
,
Best
I like that they had one bad ass fall and had it replace-d by Dooku being particularly bad-ass
-
In his
place-
In the trade off near the end really speaks to the
frag-ility of war
I thought-
It was pretty al-right
Though it really did seem like
- they were trying to build up to something but the structure unfortunately
just didn’t support it,
Which is unfortunate because they do seem like
bits- that could’ve been nice
Like Jar-jar being a constant
peacekeeper-
The underwater
nations-
Wars be-
tween
- Those
Dude’s
And that
general guy
-
Who seems to be like he was supposed to be this
- really big deal
[probably intended to do something
massive in the previous
arcs,]
But, here,
all he did was that one scene,
[Would’ve worked better if he was like this Re-
Public Gen-
Er
Al-
To the
shark guy-
And Akbar,
Was just like the resident
enforcer-
Or something to do with the
prince
I think it would’ve really worked better with the concept of
‘being taken’
under,
As well that possibly being a good contrast between
Jar Jar
binks
And
Char-
If Jar- jar got promoted-
With Char being eager at first but then realizing he just
can’t-
And Jar- Jar being reluctant at first but realizing he
can-
[Note; assumed authority is bad,
Just- some people are better at using it for venting
than others)
Nope boomers vs throw-
it-back, boom-
I-
And it really did feel like this episode
-should’ve been the split one
Nearing the end- it started to feel like the 1st-
part of a second ep-
Which is fine
Just cut-
of-
Episode all around being al-right, with just several parts that didn’t make quite sense including the emphasis on the general for that one scene,
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What would be some Grell omorashi headcanons?
Quick Note: I tend to use she/her for Gr/ell and hc her as a tra/ns wo/man, but I also understand between canon sources, non-canon char interviews, author intentions, dif cultural views, The time period the canon takes place in vs. The year the media was published vs. Our current time now changing views/terms, it's ALL a giant clustertruck question mark blob. So feel free to hc Gre/ll differently, be that a very feminine ga/y man or b/i or nonb/inary or whatever, I genuinely don't mind how anyone hcs characters and fan content does not affect my enjoyment of canon in any way. I'm never gonna pick fights and claim somebody's playing with their imaginary Barbie wrong lmao, kindergarteners know better than that
Now to the actual ask:
ANON I LOVE YOU!!! Gr/ell is one of my fav chars EVER but I never get to talk about her hhhhh ❤❤❤
I've had 8 dang years to think about this so enjoy a varied selection 😼 I'm sorry in advance bc half of these are very lemony oops
General:
* Reapers have stronger bladders than humans (in terms of capacity/general strength), but they're still much weaker than a demon's (goes for all bodily functions tbh. Demons don't really have any, the only reason they would need to go is if they chose to partake in occasional food/drink, and could easily hold it for weeks or even months at a time). A reaper can probably hang in there with a full bladder for a day or two if very determined, less if they've had any strong diuretics/alcohol (I imagine the humans' stuff is p weak tho and barely gets them buzzed).
* Gr/ell's bladder is stronger than a newbie like Ro/nald's, but weaker than someone like W/ill's. Mostly bc she's frequently drinking unhealthy stuff and has no problem up and ditching to pee as soon as she's tired of waiting.
* Not bladdershy in the slightest, and not dysp/horic either. (While she wants a womb/too look more womanly, she also seems fairly content with her body and even takes pride in it in several scenes.) The only time I could see her getting nervous/locking up is if she had a really bad day or felt extra self-conscious, and it wouldn't be a very severe condition.
* She doesn't like going in weird/gross places because she is a Beautiful Lady With Standards, thank you very much. If she has absolutely no choice she'll suck it up and pee in an alley like the commoner humans, but she will complain about it for the next few years at every opportunity.
* That being said she's also a huge hypocrite, and if the situation was reversed would immediately snap at someone like W/ill or Ro/nald to just go in the alley already instead of failing to hide their desperation on the job. You bunch of damn babies, grow a pair.
* If she needs to be serious/doesn't want ppl to know, she can hide desperation fairly well (a little clumsy/flushed and sweaty, but that could be mistaken as her normal goofy behavior), masking how bad it really is until she's a minute from wetting herself.
* If she doesn't care and wants to complain though, she's obvious af. Whines and gripes the whole time, full-blown potty dance to garner sympathy, legs crossed and bouncing, everything. By the time she gets to the suspiciously e/rotic moans ppl usually hurry to find her a bathroom/yell at her to leave lol
* There have definitely been times when Gre/ll used going to the bathroom as an excuse to ditch work for a LONG time or took many frequent smaller breaks to do her nails/read magazines/flirt with Seb, etc. Needless to say, this backfires terribly the one time she actually does have to go because W/illiam definitely isn't putting up with her bs no matter how much she begs or squirms. He's even madder at her when he realizes he'll have to clean the floor. If she wasn't so mad/embarrassed herself, she'd have taken joy in his karma and gladly told him to suck her d/ick.
* That's def not the first time W/ill's seen her desperate or piss herself. As young stud reapers in training I guarantee G/rell got shitfaced at company parties on more than one occasion (or just went out drinking the night before work on a weekday lol). Frequently showed up for field work having to pee every other hour and driving him nuts c':
* She and Ma/dame Red definitely fooled around a couple of times (she's the only woman Gr/ell's ever been attracted to) . Maybe Gr/ell already had the kink and brought it up, or maybe Red saw Gr/ell squirming and asked (insisted) she let her watch until she lost control, but either way things got dirty real quick lmao. Red slapped a demon's ass in the same room as her nephew, she's dom AF (and inappropriate lmao). G/rell's a giant masochist/sadist combo. Do the math 👀👌💯
* I personally love the concept of her ending up desperate after inviting herself along and crashing one of C/iel and Seb/astian's missions and just being miserable the whole time trying to hide it. Because she def can't embarrass herself in front of B/assy, but even worse she will NOT prove she has to take a potty break before some human kid. Naturally, C/iel being the complete brat and posessive bitch he is, immediately picks up on her predicament and torments her the whole time/makes a fool of her without letting Seb know the real issue. She can't lay a finger on him because she'd be Dead and she can't whine for B/assy to get him to stop bc that would mean explaining her problem so it just keeps escalating in comedic fashion. (This isn't even an omo hc really sorry lol, I just love any plot with those two bickering like petty babies as rivals for Seb's attention, even better if Ci/el consistently pulls one over on her and is the more mature one. You killed my aunt and then tried to steal my butler, Get Rekt Bitch )
* In any aus where she isn't hooking up with Red or trying to get Seb, I ship her hard with Un/dertaker (they're my otp actually don't judge me). In those he's actually the one with a massive piss kink and she's weirded tf out at first, but I mean if ur bf already eats dog biscuits and sleeps in a coffin u can probs learn to live with it. She indulges him periodically and he spoils her rotten afterwards. (I actually had several fic ideas for those two back in the day. One day maybe I'll finally get around to it).
* No matter what she draws a hard line at drinking it. No thank you. Golden showers are a maybe but they better have some gr8 shampoo to scrub her luxurious hair with afterwards.
* Wetting herself in that too small choir outfit from s1 that basically made short shorts and a crop top? P l e a s e
Dom G/rell:
* Has totally tried to pin Seb down/trap him somewhere and use his increasing desperation as leverage to get what she wants since he's too proper to wet himself. It probably doesn't work bc he's crafty and also could just throw her across the room, but u know. Points for trying.
* When someone lets her dom them willingly she's an absolutely sadistic fiend. W/ill completely torment them until they're begging and broken, and they have to pleasure her first before she'll show any mercy and allow them to let go. That said, she's got an almost sweet tone to anything she says and is very affectionate the whole time. It's a dichotomy that leaves any subs an absolute wreck. Her absolute fav part is watching ppl squirm and start to leak, it's cute.
* She also likes doing the whole fake sympathy play, where everything nice she says makes it 20x worse for the sub. Poor babies ❤
* Making out so they can't say anything no matter how desperate they are, just writhing underneath her with their whimpers muffled in her mouth? Perfection.
* Slowly pressing her boot into someone's abdomen is her signature move.
Sub Gr/ell:
* Loves the whole humiliation aspect and being all squirmy and nervous in front of (S/EBASTIAN) people, struggling to hide her problems and act casual but knowing her face is flushed red.
* When it gets really bad she gets super whiny and submissive, whimpering and moaning and really playing up the vulnerable aspect. Look how pitiful she is, it would be oh so easy for them to have their way with her~ (and then she bats her eyelashes and they just glare ajdkgk stop fucking around G/rell this is a Serious Scene we talked about this before we started)
* Sometimes she does public holds or gets desperate before a mission/visit just so she can see how long she can get away with it before she has to cave/people get suspicious. It's k/inky, exh/ibitionist, and oh so delicious~
* Lives for (S/EBASTIAN) the dom to get mad and disappointed in her, verbally berating her for not being more composed and embarrassing them in public, manhandling her as she's dragged somewhere more secluded to get ahold of herself, being teased and poked and prodded all while they're sneering in her ear. She wants to feel like the dirtiest, most ashamed and nervous person alive for such a simple need, knowing it's going to come out eventually no matter how hard she tries to be Good, having to beg and plead with teary eyes only to be denied access to the bathroom and told to suck it up and hold it.
* She really liked her original disguise/persona from the Ma/dame Red Days for this exact reason. Could be as shy and stuttery as possible and really play it up, got bossed around/teased by everyone, it was great. Totally got desperate once or twice so 'he' could beg Seb/astian to use the manor bathroom and get pitied. If he 'tripped' and just so happened to lose control and start crying, well, that couldn't be helped...
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