#doing jrrt's worldbuilding for him

[softmoonlightmelody]

gender-neutral terms for gendered quenya words (and a little sindarin)

So when it comes to patronymics, such as Fëanárion or Ñolofinwiel, and general language, such as √yon and √yel, one pattern emerges: it's pretty gendered. So here's my attempt at changing some of that.

√yat - the root for a gender-neutral term for child.

-iat - gender-neutral replacement for -iel or -ion. ex. Lómiat (Lómion), Altária (Altáriel)

anat, yada - all alternatives for a gender-neutral version of child, as in anel and anon, yeldë and yondo (selda already exists for seldë and seldo)

súyat - nibling, an alternative for súyel and súyon

-ta - like -ndo or -llë, gender suffix for names. ex. Itarita (Itarillë), Caliota (Caliondo)

-ima - like -issë (iþþë) or -o, gender suffix for names. ex. Fëanárima, Írima (Írissë)

For Sindarin, the √yat could also be used. It's worth mentioning that in Sindarin, if a word ended in t, it would often be softened to d. So:

-iad - gender-neutral alternative to -ion and -iel. ex. Tinúviad (Tinúviel), Ingloriad (Inglorion)

-ad - gender-neutral alternative to Sindarin -il and -on. ex. Daerad (Daeron), Thuringwethad (Thuringwethil)

I'm not quite sure if this all fits, but there's no coincidental other meanings to any of these. It's just something I've been thinking of for a while, and that took me time to narrow down. I hope it can be useful.

(One of the ways to use this is if, for example, you made a character nonbinary - let's say Fëanáro - and his name may then be Fëanárima Þerindiat)

[cvrc11]

Also, this kind of "completionist" worldbuilding where you try to make a fully realized world that is actually as detailed as reality is, uh, physically impossible. No human can create a whole world with the same level of complexity as billions of years of history have made in our world. Every single author famous for their meticulous worldbuilding is actually only meticulous in the parts that mattered to them.

Tolkien is known for having the most thorough worldbuilding ever, but that's not true - he had very thorough worldbuilding when it came to languages and history, because these are the things he thought were important for his work, and which he found interesting. He didn't give a shit about biology, and it isn't super relevant to the plot, so we know very little about the bodies of elves or dwarves or orcs or hobbits and how they differ from humans - even the most iconic element of elvish physical form, the pointed ears, were made up by OTHER PEOPLE after the fact, because he simply did not bother to elaborate on their biology whatsoever, except for the ways that most impacted the plot, themes, and characters (i.e. their longevity, the connections between their physical well-being and the world around them, etc.).

George R.R. Martin is known for obsessing over tiny details of physical culture (clothes, architecture, weapons and armor, hairstyles, food) and history and economics within Westeros, but he doesn't much care for philosophy and theology. We have shockingly little detail about what the dominant religions of Westeros actually, you know, BELIEVE. Are the Seven a Christian Trinity situation where they're all aspects of one God, or are they a true polytheistic religion? How does the faith of the Red God feel about Divine Command theory? What is the understanding of the afterlife beyond the simple fact that there are "Seven hells"? Are they distinct? Do you go to different hells for different sins? How does sin work anyway? Does the faith of the Seven believe in redemption through faith, deeds, or grace? Or something else entirely? We never learn this stuff because GRRM didn't think it important enough to develop, or he himself just didn't find it interesting enough to think about.

I list these examples because they illustrate not just that you have to prioritize what matters to your story, but also that different readers will disagree with your choices no matter what - in particular, I disagree with both JRRT's and GRRM's decisions about what aspects of worldbuilding were most important for their stories! I think LOTR could do with less linguistics and more biology, and ASOIAF could do with less history and fashion and more theology! I think these things are extremely important for a lot of what actually happens in these stories! But that doesn't mean JRRT or GRRM made the "wrong" choices - it means that no one, ever, can make the "right" choices, because worldbuilding, much like everything else about writing, is a process of choosing between infinite options, none of which are inherently "right" or "wrong", and each of which will always be "right" for some stories and some readers, and "wrong" for others, so at the end of the day what matters is what YOU, the WRITER, think is important. JRRT fucking loved words and languages, and GRRM fucking loves describing fancy dressed and long lineages of kings, and they made the only right decision - to do the things they loved, and write around that. I want more info on dwarf biology - I do NOT think JRRT should have been expected to provide it. He did not care, and that means he should not write about it. Which he didn't. Good on him.

i think one of the reasons i get mildly annoyed about worldbuilding threads that are 200 tweets of why you should care about where blue dye comes from in your world before saying someone is wearing blue is that so few of them go up to the second level of "and that should impact your characters somehow" - i don't care that blue dye comes from pressing berries that only grow in one kingdom a thousand miles away if people are casually wearing blue

[absynthe--minded]

If you don’t mind because I love to hear it, what editorial choices did Christopher Tolkien make that really frustrate you?

My top one would be Turin’s character assaination.

I do not mind being asked!! this is an incomplete list but I hope it gets the point across

Túrin’s character assassination is astonishing, you’re right, for me it’s specifically everything in Nargothrond as well as the minimizing of Saeros (and sometimes Daeron) harassing him for racist and xenophobic reasons. This is really well-known so I’m not going to spend a lot of time on it unless people want me to? it’s probably best encapsulated in another post lol.

WHERE ARE THE WOMEN, CHRISTOPHER, WHERE ARE THEY. Haleth’s all-woman bodyguards get cut out! Míriel being the inventor of sewing gets cut out! Indis and Nerdanel having a friendship gets cut out! Andreth gets cut out, with not even a mention of the Athrabeth! Morwen and Niënor lose all their character traits! Finduilas is a ghost of her former self! Idril’s character gets cut down to nothing!

Findis and Lalwen not existing. I’m actually going to give them their own bullet point because Lalwen goes to Beleriand with her brother Fingolfin. That’s an entire extra Finwëan princess to talk about!

cutting the Wanderings of Húrin from the Silmarillion was a Bad Choice because it robs Húrin of his status as like. almost a warning of divine punishment. With the Wanderings, and specifically his travels to Gondolin and Menegroth, you can make the argument that Doriath falling and Gondolin falling were in large part because they failed to look after innocents and refugees, and that’s a really neat angle

Gil-galad Son Of Fingon. Gil-galad’s parentage changed so many damn times. I am all for Gil-galad the adopted son of Findekáno and also kind of Maitimo? but Gil-galad the biological son of Fingon has caused so many fandom problems. Leaving his parentage ambiguous would have been the right choice, and Christopher himself agrees with me here.

Beren and Lúthien being directly involved with killing the dwarves who killed Thingol. Christopher also admits in HoME that having Guy Gavriel Kay help with ghostwriting that Silm chapter was a mistake, and that he probably could have succeeded in creating a coherent narrative from his father’s later work (specifically the draft where Celegorm and Curufin kill the dwarves, assuming they have the Silmaril, but Melian actually took it and went to Lúthien)

I’m still doing research on this so I can’t actually speak authoritatively on it yet but what inspired my original frustrated post was the fact that as far as I can tell, the bits in the Silm chapter “Of Maeglin” about Maeglin’s desire to marry Idril being seen as incestuous and twisted and disgusting? Entirely absent from the drafts. All I’ve found in HoME and TFOG so far indicates that J.R.R. Tolkien never wrote anything close to that - Maeglin wanted to marry her, sure, but in the Book of Lost Tales, their marriage is frowned upon because Turgon thought that his nephew was clout-chasing rather than genuinely in love with his daughter. And the other HoME volumes usually have some variation on “Maeglin wanted to marry her, and Turgon loved and trusted him, but she married Tuor instead”, if they mention him at all. All the stuff about how he loved without hope, and how she saw him as terrifyingly warped? I’m willing to say that there’s a very good chance he invented that. Maeglin’s characterization in JRRT’s writing is very different from how he is in the Silm.

Amrod surviving at Losgar. I feel like this is a pretty agreed-upon fandom thing? We all sort of just accept that he died. But it still annoys me that Chris decided not to follow that path.

Argon not existing at all. Argon’s death mirrors Amrod’s death - both Fëanor and Fingolfin have to lose a son before they can begin life in exile, and one dies in fire and the other dies in freezing cold. It also sets up an interesting relationship since Argon died defending his family and his people and Amrod died because of someone else’s selfish and misguided attempt to defend his family.

the removal of a lot of the more queercoded/queer-subtext moments. Túrin and Beleg kiss in front of the Gaurwaith in the Lay of the Children of Húrin, and in that version and the Book of Lost Tales version of the story, Túrin kisses Beleg after he dies. The green Elessar that Galadriel gives to Aragorn is mentioned to be a betrothal gift in Laws and Customs among the Eldar, and there’s one version of the story where that same green stone was given to Fingon by Maedhros.

downplaying the presence of Taliska in the narrative and stripping out a lot of Edainic cultural worldbuilding. Taliska, one of the Edainic languages (or an Edainic language with several distinct dialects) hasn’t had any publicly released information about grammar and construction. We never find out in the published Silm that the Atani - the mortal Men - call themselves the Seekers, the way the elves call themselves the Quendi. We don’t learn that nothlir is the Taliska word for “folk” or “people”, so nothlir Haletha means “folk of Haleth”. All the lengthy discussion of Edainic philosophy from the Athrabeth is gone, and Chris’s decimation of the Narn i Chin Húrin means we don’t know anything in the Silm chapter about life in Dor-lómin under Húrin and Morwen’s leadership.

I hope that answers your question? sorry, this turned out to be long.

[larathia]

My Current Fandoms update.

It’s long, and probably largely uninteresting, so it’s cut.

* Voltron: Legendary Defender  - I ship Sheith and Matt/Lance and attempts to change my mind will result in blocking. I write for this fandom but pretty much stopped participating in it after certain elements Crossed The Crazy River and started building cities. I have a long, long AU to finish and then maybe some fluff to write and if I’m lucky, Voltron will have a new iteration to love before I’m done.

* Voltron: Defender of the Universe - the only iteration where I will ship klance. Honestly I like GoLion better, but DOU translated around roughly 80 percent of it, so. It’s my gateway drug.

* Discworld - another long term fandom. I love meta discussions and art. I avoid any non-canonical shipping (no, I don’t count subtext; in this case, I figure if Pterry wanted them shipped he would’ve shipped them himself and done a better job than I or anyone else ever could have, I will respect his character choices.). I actually avoid fic for this fandom for the same reason; I really respect Pterry’s skill with words and language and...fandom generally can’t come close. I do love the meta discussions and art though.

* Lord of the Rings - Books. Sorta movie, it was pretty, but books for plot. I follow art and meta discussions, and again, generally avoid fics. I’d read ‘em if someone I truly trusted (she knows who she is) recommended them and that’s it. It’s not my style, but I seriously respect JRRT’s commitment to worldbuilding and conlang.

* My Next Life As A Villainess - I ship Katarina with Nico and his sister, but I won’t be too upset if nearly any of the other options come through, provided the hurdles are adequately dealt with and not handwaved. (Yeah. I’ll accept handwaving of sudden magical artifacts and that kind of thing, but if this is a romance anime then the romance damn well better be firmly grounded.) I’m...tentatively? in this fandom. After the sheer bugfuck crazy of VLD, I’m wary as fuck of people acting like their ships are nations at war with all other nations. So far this fandom’s been pleasantly chill. Just call it my PTSD.

* Toilet-bound Hanako-kun - When the fuck did I start caring? I do not know. I started watching this as a vetting assignment for my library and weirdly wound up invested. The fandom is...well. So far I’ve mostly just seen griping. So I may not interact much with the fandom and just enjoy the canon.

* Rising of the Shield Hero - I love it. I rewatch it. Very much looking forward to Season 2. Got all the light novels. Writing a little fluff thing set in the Isekai Quartet verse. Firmly Naofumi/Raphtalia. (Actually, I kind of think Naofumi is aro/ace and that’s why it takes him so long to clue in. So I definitely don’t ship him with anyone but Raphtalia.) The fandom is...weird. I kinda get the feeling this wasn’t ‘supposed’ to be an anime I liked, that I’m not the target audience and the author might even be surprised I enjoy it. It’s that kind of weird.

* Doctor Who - all the Doctor Who. Classic, modern. Books. Audio dramas. I love it all, but I love it selectively. (Two, Five, Seven, Ten, Eleven, 13.) Sometimes I ship, sometimes I don’t. Way back in the dim and misty I wrote Two/Jamie fanfics in my school notebooks, before there was an internet to share them on. So there’s a soft spot in my heart for this one.

* Overlord - Much like Shield Hero, I don’t feel like I’m the target audience for this series, and that the author might be surprised I follow it. I do, though, because the imposter syndrome is funny as hell to me, and I find watching the author try to figure out how to make an omnipotent character interesting amusing. Since the fandom seems largely made up of people who draw Albedo, though, it’s kind of a private enjoyment.

[kingjasnah]

actually. actually let’s talk about diversity in fantasy let’s give that a go. im mad and im gonna be that way for a while

don’t want to read all this? fair. tldr: fantasy writers who rely not only on the medieval europe model but also hide behind historical accuracy in 2020 (fuck it, from ‘95 onwards) are lazy and unimaginative and should be held accountable no matter how many white 20 year old dudes jerk off to whatever power fantasy is embedded in the plot. so lets chat about that lads. (slightly) drunk rant under the cut

now prelim shit: we know fantasy is used both as escapism and as a way to deal with various traumas via magical metaphor. staples of the genre. even if jk rowling busted out the laziest and at times offensive metaphor for ww2 and racism ive ever seen, she still adhered to time and true tropes. whatever.

so why have we, in this post game of thrones era, become insanely obsessed with realism? i can hear sixty 20-something year old men crying at me rn like oh ohh oh its based off the war of roses oh wahh all medieval fantasy fiction is based off england and the crusades anyway so women should get raped and people of color should be demonized its not racism its xenophobia and also gay people dont exist and disabled people are systematically killed off and if we stretch the magic fixes mental illness thing a LITTLE further we have straight up eugenics.

we all know where the england but myth thing came from. now the thing about tolkien is that while i will always absolutely love lotr, looking at the LAZY state of fantasy? damn i kinda wish he hadn’t revolutionized the genre. the bitch was still racist. he still didnt give a shit abt women (eowyn was just a vehicle to show how much he fucking hated macbeth anyone holding jrrt up as a feminist icon for that needs to sit the fuck down and explain to me why i can count the woman speaking roles in lotr, a story with a name and fleshed out backstory for every minor character, on one hand but thats! another post). he had something to say abt class with sam i’ll give him that but he is still 100% NOT what we need to hold our standards to in 2020. 

i dont want to talk about old school fantasy, like 80s early 90s cause theres literally no point. its sexist, racist, ableist for sure, this we know. david eddings (not even that old school tbh) can rise from the grave and explain himself to me personally and i still wont forgive him for ehlana. 

so let’s talk historical accuracy. quick question. who the FUCK gives a shit? WHO is this elusive got fan who’s out here like blehh actually??? this method of iron production is TOTALLY anachronistic of the time. ummm these vegetables in this fictional world were NOT native to english soil so how are they here? cause i know this is the classic argument but ive never actually met someone who cared about the lack of dysentery as much as they care abt the women getting raped on screen/page. 

god forbid you have to worldbuild for a second god forbid you can’t rely on the idea of fantasy readers already have in their head god forbid you have an original idea god forbid you spend more than two seconds thinking about ur setting (oh i should mention i dont....really blame GoT for its setting cause of how long ago it was og written but trust me i sure as hell blame grrm for writing a 13 yr old giving ‘consent’ to sex with a grown man within the first couple of chapters) 

If we accept the basic premise of fantasy as escapism, and i AM drunk so i will NOT be finding fuckin. quotes and shit for this but come on tolkien said it himself and as much as i’ll drag him he crafted the simplest and most powerful fantasy metaphors on the board rn. But if we know its escapism. If we know. then who is it escapism for? certainly not for me, the gay brown woman who busted through all of GoT in 10th grade. 

modern fantasy lit used as an excuse for that white male power fantasy is literally disgusting. calling historical accuracy is so fucking dumb ESPECIALLY cause we, as ppl in the 21st  century, KNOW women have been consistently written out of the story. poc ppl, gay and trans ppl, anyone with a god forbid disability has been WRITTEN out of history as we know it, INCLUDING the fucking war of the roses so HOW can we hold up testimony we know is flawed to support our FICTIONAL. STORY. just to??? support the white power fantasy?? literally noah fence but if you are a white guy who felt really empowered by every time jim butcher described a woman tell me: how do you think that’ll hold up in classic HisToRiCaL fantasy. you think thats a fucking noble pursuit? or are you grima wormtongue out here. 

(side note: jim butcher stop writing challenge i dont need to know abt every woman on page’s nipples. anyone who hides behind subgenre like that? ‘ohhh its a noir story thats why hes sexualizing everyone’ shut the fuck up an author isnt possessed by a fuckin muse and compelled to bust out 500k they have agency and they have choice and they MADE the choice to reserve said will for none of their female characters)

which brings me to point 2: target audience and BOY is the alcohol hitting me rn but WHO is this for? this isnt the fucking 80s we know poc and other marginalized folk read fantasy FOR the escapism. on god ive had a cosmere focused blog for nearly three years and. im just gonna say it im interacted with A LOT of yall and ive managed to talk to VERY few white straight ppl as compared to everyone else. 

like....who deserves to see the metaphor on homophobia or racism. joanne rowling? the bitch who literally tried to sell us happy slaves and the disgusting aids metaphor and the worst case of antisemitic stereotypes i ever saw in an nyt bestseller? yall think that was for US? or was it for the white guilt crowd. 

literally white people can find any book about them that they can relate to. but hmmm maybe theres a reason gay women care so much about stormlight archive’s jasnah kholin, a brown woman who’s heavily coded as wlw. or kaladin, the FIRST fantasy protag ive ever seen with clinical depression. hmm i wonder why a bunch of millennials are vibing all of a sudden. im not saying sanderson is perfect--but its the best ive seen from a white author tbh

maybe theres a reason a lot of poc vibe with a literary way to express trauma, and maybe thats why i specifically get so pissed when its not done well. theres a REASON books about outcasts pushing through and claiming their own lives are popular with people who arent white and straight and able bodied. Junot Diaz had a point. maybe lets STOP catering to those assholes who think theyre joseph campbell’s wet dream personified. ive lost respect SO many authors who are objectively talented. pat rothfuss can write so beautifully that ive cried to bits of name of the wind but literally i will never pick that series up again (not just because of the felurian. women in general tbh. mostly the felurian ngl) cause 1) i personally KNEW men whod jerk off to that shit and 2) there was no need for it there was no plot reason for ANY of that shit 

so like obviously thers an issue with authors of color specifically not getting recognized for fantasy and genre work but on god??????? im still mostly mad at the legions of white authors churning out the same medieval england chosen one books year after fucking year. have an original thought maybe. also im sorry that you as an author lack the basic empathy needed to examine the way that women? or any group of people that youre explicitly writing about see the world and would specifically see YOUR made up world. 

yes your fantasy should be diverse, but more than that it should be kind. if you as a writer cant respect groups of people who deserve it....what the hell are you doing in a genre that traditionally is about finding ways to express injustice through metaphor? tolkien’s hero was sam. fantasy was NEVER about the privileged. yall know who you are so stop acting so fucking entitled. peace out. 

[ajora]

With this, I finished the Rain Wilds Chronicles. Spoilers ahead.

The good:

One of those things Hobb excels at is that she knows ships and seamanship and it shows. It shows more in the Liveship Traders series, and this series is focused more on the dragon keepers, but with Tarman and Leftrin being major characters escorting the dragons to their ancestral home, you get a taste of her research and probable experience in the matter.

The dragons start off as severely developmentally disabled and experience abuse and neglect since their emergence from their cocoons. As a result, they’re distrustful towards humans and manipulate them. And honestly, can you blame them? I found it believable and honestly did not regret the fact that one of them kinda... ate a hunter who tried to kill her to butcher her and sell her parts. And their personalities varied considerably, so you could be annoyed at Sintara’s toxic relationship with her keeper, but then there’s Mercor keeping the other dragons on a decent moral heading and acting as the voice of reason.

It should be mentioned that their developmental disabilities dwindle the closer they get to their magic foodsource, and direct ingestion of that foodsource and exposure to heat helps them grow into traditional dragons.

No but really, the dragons are fantastic, independent, and more human than they want to admit. This is a nice contrast to Anne McCaffrey’s big, loving alien dragons who were genetically engineered to bond with humans from hatching and cannot live without them, and distinct from GRRM’s otherworldly, inscrutable magic creatures who may or may not be animalistic tbh I forgot because GRRM’s writing just doesn’t stick with me and I find it kind of dull and no one should ever compare him to JRRT. They’re more in the spirit of Smaug and Gorbash than Ramoth.

Now that I think about it, a lot of the dragon cultural stuff reminds me of the Dragon Knight* series by Gordon Dickson. Which is actually great because one of the Dragon Knight series’ strongest points was the dragon cultures and that Gorbash was absolutely not a house pet.

This dovetails nicely into the other thing: Hobb is great at worldbuilding and character development. I found Alise and Thymara’s developments believable, and Sedric’s turn from selfish Bingtown dandy to decent human being and dragon keeper willing to hunt for his dragon and actually do physical labor was delightful.

Also? Hobb does what McCaffrey, Dickson, and Martin don’t, and her gay male characters are very prominent and vary significantly. Sedric’s counterpart is both reminiscent of The Picture of Dorian Gray and the kind of bastard you love to hate.

The bad:

Hobb’s villains tend to lean a bit cartoonish, I think. Not necessarily a bad thing, but two of them ended up being eaten by dragons and the other is killed offscreen by dragons, iirc.

I don’t think Hobb knows lesbians and bisexual women exist, so she loses points there. Her female characters are fantastic, but I’m always somehow disappointed when they end up with men.

I suspect Hobb falls into the McCaffrey trap of believing that motherhood is the pinnacle of womanhood, and that’s disappointing.

Chalced always feels a bit like orientalism run amok and that’s a bit of a stain right there that’s always in the back of my head.

Never shall I forget her rant about fanfics. I find the hypocrisy hilarious, given that I can clearly see the influences of the works of others in her own works. 

* If you’re my age, you may recognize an extremely loose adaptation of his first novel in the series, The Dragon and the George, as Flight of Dragons.

[simonjadis]

Your post on subversion was intriguing. My friend and I were similarly wondering if fans take "fanon" too seriously as it warps their perception of "canon." As in the direction taken, be it by different writers or the same one, goes someplace fans just don't like. What makes it "bad writing" or "fans who just didn't like what they got" exactly? It can feel so... mixed up honestly.

refers to this post [X]

Thank you!!!

I think that fanon has so many definitions that it can be difficult to discuss without being specific

a not-particularly-safe-for-weenies example is Transformers fandom has a particular way of describing cybertronian genitals, in terms of their form, function, and terminology, that is widely (though not universally) used in fic, despite not being part of the established lore

that’s what happens when fanon is created to be lore-conforming but to address something that is not (or cannot be) directly discussed within the media itself

sometimes, fanon is about taking a hammer and fixing canon because it’s broken

for example, though it’s frankly the least of her problems when it comes to worldbuilding, JK Rowling can’t do math. it’s never clear how many students attend Hogwarts, but her overly simplified small number of magical schools throughout the world really shows that she just … didn’t crunch the numbers

I could go on about how to figure out proportions of mutants/wizards/vampires etc, but the issue here is that fans basically have to ignore this new lore because it’s absurd. that doesn’t mean that there’s a newly established fanon for HP international schools, but one day, there might be

sometimes, fanon takes a very different turn, when fans far and wide commonly accept what’s called “woobification“ of a character

Snape, Loki, Kylo Ren, Damon Salvatore. these are all fine characters to like if you so choose (I’m obsessed with Sheev Palpatine; I get it), but sometimes people will try to justify that fondness by pretending that the character is someone wildly divorced from their actual morality

I don’t want to talk about any given character, and inconsistent writing can also be a factor, and also not all of the characters I just listed are on equal moral footing by any means. but sometimes the fanon version of a character is unrecognizable because they’re a much better person than their canon counterpart

fandom expectations can be extremely difficult to manage and even to predict. if fans come up with their own ideas about how a story should end or what sort of dynamic a pair of characters have, that can come into conflict with what ends up happening in the story

unfortunately, there’s no single, hard-and-fast rule for what makes a good story vs what makes a bad one

in my previous post (linked to at the top of this post), I talked about how telling a good story is like setting up a marble ramp or a series of dominoes, where all of the pieces should be in place to get you to the ending you desire. if you have to flick over a second domino or pick up the marble and deposit it somewhere else – that is, force characters to do something that neither personality (marble) nor circumstances (ramp/obstacles/etc) support – then you’ve made a mistake. audiences will usually notice

sometimes, fanon ideas of who a character is can influence fans, which lead them to do the pikachu-surprise-meme when a canon portrayal remains consistent. but sometimes, there are other factors, such as a likeable actor. Alan Rickman was a good guy, but Severus Snape was not

this may seem like a tangent, and perhaps it is, but sometimes authors and other storytellers try to impose their own, incorrect, moral view of the world in their stories.

Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien himself used Gandalf to tell the Frodo (and the reader) that it would be morally wrong to simply execute Gollum rather than kill him in self-defense or battle. this pays off later when Gollum’s avarice destroys the One Ring and saves Middle Earth (spoilers!). this only works out this way because JRRT, who is catholic, told that story, not because it’s always the case that the person whose life you spared will accidentally save the day later.

another great example is JKR declaring that Snape is a hero. I won’t get into her odd treatment of Slytherin, and this may fall under the I Will Fix Canon With Hammer type of fanon, but I think that we all know that she bent over backwards to vilify Slytherins just as she did with fat people (except the ones who were just foolish)

nothing that JKR says can make Snape a good person unless she tells us that the dialogue that he spoke and the actions described on the pages were just … lies she told us for some reason. writers can control the very laws of reality of their worlds, but right and wrong are what they are

anyway, I absolutely agree that what fans want to see can come into conflict with what the storyteller gives them, and that it can create an unfair backlash

by that same notion, sometimes storytellers will dismiss fan concerns over bad writing (inconsistent characterization, rushed storylines, etc) and blame “fan entitlement.” that’s a real thing, but it’s the people who rage angrily and lead review-bombing campaigns – not the people who hate seeing their favorite characters murdered by the writers (and sometimes, by other characters) because it was poor writing

I love-love-love Mass Effect Andromeda, but I know that some fans of the series did not. that does not make them bad fans. sending hate to a developer or to people who enjoyed it would make them a bad fan

bad fan behavior comes from actual behavior, not what they think about a piece of media

and as for telling the difference between bad writing and fans disappointed by a solid narrative? I mean, my marble example shows one part of what I think defines good vs bad writing. mostly, we just have to figure out for ourselves if a choice made us sad or if it was actually bad

[problem-slooth]

the only valid part of the silm imo

Now that it’s the summer, I should start updating more often. NO promises.

Now as has been told, one Lenwë of the host of Olwë forsook the march of the Eldar at that time when the Teleri were halted by the shores of the Great River upon the borders of the westlands of Middle-earth.

...new story?

Little is known of the wanderings of the Nandor, whom he led away down Anduin: some, it is said, dwelt age-long in the woods of the Vale of the Great River, some came at last to its mouths and there dwelt by the Sea, and yet others passing by Ered Nimrais, the White Mountains, came north again and entered the wilderness of Eriador between Ered Luin and the far Mountains of Mist.

Hey, I know where that is. That’s around the first leg of the journey from The Hobbit. I got a little map of Middle Earth in my head, but it only really encompasses the places from The Hobbit and maybe a bit from LoTR.

Now these were a woodland people and had no weapons of steel, and the coming of the fell beasts of the North filled them with great fear, as the Naugrim declared to King Thingol in Menegroth. Therefore Denethor, the son of Lenwë, hearing rumour of the might of Thingol and his majesty, and of the peace of his realm, gathered such host of his scattered people as he could, and led them over the mountains into Beleriand.

Denethor?? Was that Denethor named after him? Or one of his ancestors maybe?

Of the long years of peace that followed after the coming of Denethor there is little tale. In those days, it is said, Daeron the Minstrel, chief loremaster of the kingdom of Thingol, devised his Runes; and the Naugrim that came to Thingol learned them, and were well-pleased with the device, esteeming Daeron's skill higher than did the Sindar, his own people.

Writing system, very cool. I find JRRT’s linguistic stuff much more interesting than the rest of the worldbuilding, tbh.

By the Naugrim the Cirth were taken east over the mountains and passed into the knowledge of many peoples; but they were little used by the Sindar for the keeping of records, until the days of the War, and much that was held in memory perished in the ruins of Doriath.

Even more parallels with Israel/Bavel here. Someone must have been the R Yehuda HaNasi equivalent and written down the most important records so they wouldn’t get lost.

But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

I’m glad someone at least had a nice life. It’s true, that most stories are tragedies, and few that aren’t last long.

[softmoonlightmelody]

The Avari Peoples

First off, this is entirely based on headcanon. None of this (except for a little bit about the Númer) is canon.

However, it is said that 2/3 of elves went on the Great Journey and 1/3 made it to Valinor. This leads me to the conclusion that there has to be a lot of Avari, and it's more than likely that they multiplied a lot throughout the years.

The Avari are separated into five types: the Lembi, those who never left Cuiviénen; the Númer, those who went west; the Formeni, those who went north; the Rómer, those who went east; and the Hyarmeni, those who went south.

Names are in Quenya for easy use, and you can use anything here for your fics or headcanons as long as you credit me first (just putting my user is fine)

The Lembi

The Lembi are those who never left Cuiviénen. Now mostly Nelyar, they have a long-standing connection to the inland sea. They are known as great healers, creating potion-drinks for health out of Cuiviénen's waters. They are matriarchal and property passes through the mother's line. They are quite small, with only around fifty families - the head of each family is given a seat on a council which decides the community's policy and future.

The Númer

Númerin Clans The Númerin Clans number six - the Kwenti, the Cuind, the Hwenti, the Windan, the Kinn-lai, and the Penni. They also tend to be matriarchal. However, each clan has a different culture.

Runyarili Named for the garnet they so prize, the Runyarili live just east of the sea of Rhûn. Descended mostly from the Tatyar, they are semi-nomadic and live in the plains. Like most nomadic peoples, the Runyarili have lavish personal adornment. Besides just garnet, they use diamond, chicken bloodstone, and turquoise. They are also matriarchal, but their property falls through the male line.

The Formeni

The Ruiner The only Formeni are the Ruiner, a people which prize animal skins. Like the Runyarili, they have lavish personal decoration, but it is less extravagant and obvious due to the cold of where they live. Fire is their most precious thing, they believe that fire is where they come from, and they worship their idea of what is kind of like if the Flame Imperishable was also Eru and everyone at the same time. They are patriarchal but property falls to whoever the previous owner wanted, although generally that's through the male line. They're divided into many clans but they share holy places and holidays.

The Rómer

The Aiquar The Aiquar are the part of the Rómer who refused to cross the Steep Mountains. They are known for being a sort of Avarin Ñoldor, that is, they are smiths descended mostly from the Tatyar. They also are known for fabrics like the other Rómer. They are patriarchal, but everyone belongs to their mother's family and property passes through the female line. The Aiquar are also fairly centralized under one government and have large cities, some of which are in caves.

The Samini The Samini are the part of the Rómer who continued to cross the Steep Mountains to the eastern sea. They are perhaps best contrasted with the Teleri, as they are also shipbuilders. However, like the Aiquar, they focus a lot on fabrics, and the Samini name themselves after silk. Like the Aiquar, property passes through the female line and they belong to their mother's family, despite being patriarchal. Unlike the Aiquar, however, they are not centralized at all and have many autonomous city-states.

The Hyarmeni

The Kemeni The Kemeni live at the conjunction where several rivers become one. They are known for both their detailed pottery and horse breeding, and they are descended mostly from the Nelyar. They are matriarchal, and have no concept of marriage. Their property passes through the women.

Thanks for reading all of that - I've had this written down in the backburner but I figured I'd never use it in a fic. Perhaps I should write something. Maybe Maglor goes exploring? Nonetheless, I have more fleshed out that I didn't think was necessary to add.

[absynthe--minded]

So... Let's say that, on the wave of recent excitment for the upcoming book, somebody has decided to ignore both their official academic career AND the evergrowing pile of bought-but-not-read books on the bookshelf, and wants to finally dive into HoME... which volume(s) would you suggest starting with? Asking for a friend...

so my answer to this is Morgoth’s Ring, but it’s a bit more complicated than that.

the thing about HoME is that it’s not organized by category, it’s organized chronologically, so it starts with the very first stuff Tolkien wrote and builds out from there. If you’re interested in tracing the development of a particular character, it’s in your best interest to get the whole thing and use the index or a search function to track their progress, but if what you’re looking for is a specific story, that’s a different animal entirely. Morgoth’s Ring, in my opinion, has a lot of stuff that’s really worth reading if you want to start exploring more deeply and you’re already interested in the fandom as a whole, but there’s a lot more out there worth exploring, SO.

what I’m gonna do is go through the volumes and point out anything that’s there that I really like or think is relevant in terms of fanon. I’m excluding the middle volumes because they’re the rough drafts of The Lord of the Rings and don’t really come up a lot in conversation in the fandom, so this is gonna be the beginning and the end. I am of course giving my opinion as to highlights and must-reads, and if people feel like I’ve slighted their personal favorite thing, I hope they’ll say so in the notes! there’s so much and it’s scattered everywhere and I know I’ll forget something worth mentioning.

the way that HoME is structured is snippets of text in between long stretches of commentary by Christopher Tolkien, and the commentary is hit or miss. personally, I disagree with basically every point Chris makes, but it’s still worth reading in some situations because he will cite fragments or notes or asides that don’t get transcribed, or he’ll discuss things he did for the published Silmarillion that he judges to be errors. there are also footnotes written both by JRRT and by Chris, and those are always worth it in my opinion.

The Books of Lost Tales - technically this is one and two of twelve, but they have a very different structure than the rest of the History. here is where we’ll find the very earliest stuff Tolkien ever wrote about Arda, and here is where the beginnings of the ‘Mythology for England’ idea come into play. the basic idea for these books is that Eriol, or Ælfwine, a mariner presumably from the British Isles, goes on a solo voyage and gets horribly lost and lands on Tol Eressëa. from there, he becomes what I can only really call a weeb but for elves (elfaboo?) and starts asking a bunch of questions to the people who befriend him. they very obligingly start telling him everything, and as a result there’s a frame story for a significant part of these volumes that makes the whole thing feel very fairytale in a way that later works really don’t capture. the bones of the SIlm are here, though a lot of the political intricacies and character drama aren’t. it’s also a very incomplete telling, though all three of the Great Tales show themselves. highlights: the Tale of Tinúviel aka “the one where Beren is a Noldo and Sauron is a giant cat”, the most complete version of the Nauglamír story that we have (though I will argue that it’s noncanonical for various reasons), the only complete account of the Fall of Gondolin featuring horribly detailed Everybody Dies play-by-play

The Lays of Beleriand - this is a poetry volume so if you really don’t like poetry I understand skipping it, but if you do read it you’re in for a treat. the framing device is basically gone, but it’s worth pointing out that Ælfwine isn’t gone entirely - he pops up a few more times throughout the rest of HoME to serve as the in-universe writer of a bunch of fake sociological studies and articles. highlights: here’s where you’re going to find the full-length Lay of Leithian (incomplete, but the most detailed version of the story that we have so far) as well as the Lay of the Children of Húrin, which is also incomplete but has some really heartwrenching stuff as well as Beleg and Túrin kissing and Morgoth hitting on Húrin.

The Shaping of Middle-Earth - here’s where a lot of stuff that turns up in the Silm comes from, to the point that I can pick out direct quotes from Shaping that are in the published volume. still no framing device, we’re getting into the early Quenta properly. highlights: the Quenta, appropriately, which is useful not least as a compare/contrast between the source and the Silm, and the translations of the Fëanorians’ names into Old English. this is a great volume and I absolutely recommend it.

The Lost Road and Other Writings - this is kind of an oddball volume but there’s a lot of information here about Númenor, even if quite a lot of it is deviating from later and more definitive canon. We get a time travel story of sorts, with a distinctly more fantastical bent than your average time travel story, and information about what’s best described as a Sauron-driven industrial revolution meant to help challenge the gods. highlights: basically everything we know about Adûnaic is here

Morgoth’s Ring - skipping past The Return of the Shadow, The Treason of Isengard, The War of the Ring, and Sauron Defeated, we come to volume 10. if you are going to get only one HoME volume, get this one. Both during and after writing LotR, Tolkien returned to the Silmarillion, and began to introduce more character details in addition to worldbuilding and linguistics. With Laws and Customs Among the Eldar and The Statute of Finwë and Míriel we get information about marriage and birth and death and see the beginnings of the intricate interpersonal political drama in Valinor that so many fans have come to love and hate. the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth is here, too. highlights: there’s too many to pick from so I’m just gonna say character descriptions! here is where we get the detail that Míriel Þerindë has silver hair. Nerdanel makes her first appearance, and this is the only source for much of the information about her character.

The War of the Jewels - this volume is my personal favorite, largely because of the Grey Annals, my preferred canonical source and my pick for best draft, riddled with Maedhros character details and Russingon subtext and raw dialogue. there’s other stuff here too but I think WotJ is worth it for that alone. this is a volume highlighted by timelines and outlines rather than full narratives, but there’s a surprising amount of detail and gut-wrenching pain and agony despite the lack of conventional storytelling. highlights: here’s where we get the famous “and their love was renewed” line for Maedhros and Fingon, same with the mention of the green Elessar stone being originally given to Fingon by Maedhros. Finrod tells Celegorm and Curufin “your oath will devour you” and that’s raw as hell.

The Peoples of Middle-Earth - some of the very last things Tolkien wrote about before his death, which places this in the same category as the upcoming The Nature of Middle-Earth in terms of timing/his greater career. the majority of this book is essays and examinations rather than narrative development, though a significant part of it is dedicated to Maeglin’s early life and particularly the travel times for Eöl’s journey that gave Aredhel and her son time to escape. there’s another version of the Statute of Finwë and Míriel here I think, but the full and more complete version is in MR. highlights: The Shibboleth of Fëanor, also known as “Dialectical Shifts Are A Conspiracy Theory”, which is notable for telling the story of a frankly comedic linguistic rivalry, featuring information about elvish naming customs, and giving a version of events at Losgar where Amrod gets burned alive with the ships.

I hope that helps! have fun!!

[absynthe--minded]

since I’ve been talking a lot about what I do/don’t see as canon, specifically wrt the NoME preview/leak, I figured I ought to actually explain my thoughts as to how canon is ‘ranked’ and what I count as canonical. This is primarily centered around constructing a consistent personal canon for worldbuilding/fanfic purposes, but is also about what I think the most thematically consistent and narratively consistent version of the Legendarium is.

all of this is my own opinion, but I’m posting it here for the sake of explaining myself. I’m also eager to discuss should I be overlooking something! this is a collaborative space, as well as my own soapbox. it’s both at once.

okay. so. a few rules of thumb:

I take the latest version of any given draft (for example draft B of LaCE over draft A). if something was written later and directly contradicts an earlier draft, I tend to prioritize it, however

for me, the middle of Tolkien’s writing period is the most “canonical” when it comes to HoME. the early stuff was him trying to figure his shit out, and the very late stuff was often characterized by him actively retconning his past writings. there are only a few cases where something written early or late stands out to me as the most canonically plausible version, and that’s usually because

I prioritize narrative cohesion and thematic cohesion. A lot of the one-off draft choices or referenced ideas that I choose to integrate into my personal canon or accept as canonical come from the fact that my goal is to construct a narrative that feels in line thematically and content-wise with Tolkien’s published works. this could mean I choose something because it feels in-character to me, or reject something because it feels tonally inconsistent.

every single fact and figure and number that this man wrote about the First Age is worse than useless and totally unusable. his chronologies, population ratios, ages, birth rates, distances, and other assorted facts and figures constantly change and contradict one another with no rhyme or reason to them. I’ve developed my own revised timeline with the assumption that later Ages tried to combine YT and YS and failed, to explain why every version seems to do something different. if there’s a number that’s relevant to something pre-Second Age, I usually discard it or modify it, because otherwise I’m asking for an impossibility

so! with that out of the way, on to the tiers.

published while JRRT was alive, manuscripts completed by him, editorial changes made by him personally, he submitted it for publication - indisputably canon. I don’t think anybody would argue with me there. this includes the appendices and timelines for the Second and Third Ages in LotR.

written by JRRT while he's alive, completed to the status of final draft OR completed as much as it can be in the case of a letter or essay, published posthumously - only noncanonical if explicitly contradicted by tier 1. if he wrote it and completed it to a point where he was satisfied with it or as close to satisfied as he could be, and it was just never published, that’s basically all I need.

written by JRRT while he's alive, mostly complete or consistently represented across multiple drafts OR the only significant version of a story that is compliant with multiple drafts and is treated as canonical by higher tiers - safely can be called canonical, there's some wiggle room though. a good example of this is The Fall of Gondolin from BoLT II - even though some aspects of it were expanded upon and changed later, the core of it, the actual fall of the city, is the only complete version we have and is compliant with other later adaptations.

written by JRRT while he's alive, fragmentary, incomplete - canonical if backed up by information from higher tiers, not contradicted at all or contradicted only in minor details, and forms a more thematically appropriate/consistent narrative.

mentioned by Chris or another editor without a direct quotation from Tolkien himself - probably canonical if backed up by higher tiers, not contradicted, and thematically consistent

written by JRRT himself and appears in multiple drafts but is contradicted by one draft - on shaky ground canonically, but has the benefit of being echoed across more than one version. probably too relevant to discard.

written by JRRT himself but only appears in one draft, is not contradicted at all - on shakier ground than the above tiers canonically, use or discard as you please.

written by JRRT himself, only appears in one draft, and is contradicted at least once - on the shakiest ground so far, recommended discard

written by JRRT himself but is either one of the wacky early drafts, one of his active retcon attempts, or one of the very last things he wrote - noncanonical, do as you please

one of the changes Chris made without significant canonical precedent to the published Silm, particularly the Maeglin incest lines, the mischaracterization of Túrin in Nargothrond, and the ghostwritten Dior chapter - do as you please, I would personally reject it

anything involving the First Age and numbers and timelines, elvish gestation/birth, population growth, OR maps in general drawn by Tolkien himself /distances described by him - honestly so unhelpful as to be noncanonical, self-contradictory across multiple drafts, use or discard as you please.

[absynthe--minded]

I liked your post about why Aragorn is qualified to be a king, and I wondered what you make of George R. R. Martin's answer to his own question? If the Game of Thrones show runners are being honest that king Bran is his plan, I'd love to know how you interpret that in relation to his criticism of LotR.

So first off I want to say that I’m not actually sure I buy that Bran is going to be King of Westeros - I tend to side with joannalannister’s endgame theories over GoT, though I think some things about the ending of the show are accurate (who lives and who dies, the Iron Throne being destroyed somehow, Sansa as either Queen in the North or Lady of Winterfell). I don’t recall who it is who told Bran that greenseers’ lives are short (I think Bloodraven but I’m not gonna say for sure, despite knowing quite a lot about ASOIAF I’m not a fan and can’t always cite accurately from memory) but I don’t foresee him living long enough to be a very effective king.

But.

Assuming he is king, and that there’s a Great Council that’s going to act as an oligarchy and elect a ruler every time the old one dies? I think realistically you’d see Bran dealing with the same kinds of problems that Jon (as Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch) or Dany (as Queen of Meereen) or even Ned in AGOT might have dealt with - it’s hard to make good decisions when you’re governing a lot of people. It’s hard to be a good person according to your own moral code and to please everyone, especially when they’ll happily rebel against you or subvert your aims or straight up tell you they’re not listening. (Also frankly I want to see where Bran ends up moral-development-wise before I make a call about whether or not he even qualifies as a good person, because at the moment I don’t know where his warging-into-humans is going to take him and if he winds up king while still having some conception of that as being okay? Hm. Plus it’s just terrifying to think of a young king with the ability to take control of any animal or human he likes while also having greenseer capability - he could be spying on you at just about any moment, and ought one person have that much power? But that’s not what’s being asked.) I think King Brandon would have to face a lot of challenges and he’d have to do it without the stability of the old regime that kept the realm working even after Robert’s Rebellion, and if he wound up taking the reins he’d have a lot of long, hard work ahead of him to create a functional government, and Martin seems like the kind of writer who would temper any idealistic reforms with challenges and struggles. Also Bran would probably be in a position of having to rely heavily on more politically savvy advisors, and whether or not those advisors would be good people is up in the air.

I think Martin’s answer, that there is no such thing as an uncompromisingly good person who’s also a good ruler because ruling is hard, is a worthwhile examination of the question of morality in politics. It’s certainly more realistic-to-our-world than Tolkien’s “every good person is also a good politician who’s competent and well-trained for their role”, though I find Tolkien’s world more fun because it’s substantially less depressing. My issue with his comments on Aragorn comes from the fact that by painting Aragorn as a person who’s just Good At Ruling Because He’s A Good Man, Martin simplifies Tolkien’s worldbuilding and ignores or glosses over the very real work done to make Aragorn a good candidate for the throne of Gondor outside of his moral fiber or his divinely-ordained destiny. He’s not magically the best option just because he’s there and a Lawful Good type, he’s had 80 years basically of prepping for this job. It’s still an idealistic story, but it’s idealistic in a different way. And I’m frustrated by people who miss the canonical depth while also acting as if they can speak authoritatively on the choices JRRT made, or who act as if a deliberate choice for idealism and simplified good-vs-evil are immature and unrealistic and unsatisfying by virtue of not reveling in complexity and grimdark faux-history, and then pat themselves on the back for being objectively “better” when they’ve just made a choice that’s different from the one Tolkien made and isn’t better or worse solely on the basis of tone.

(I think the showrunners for GoT missed the point, tbh, by deciding Bran gets to be king. They’re derailing their “realistic” plot and perspective to end with a decision that makes very little sense according to even their own in-universe rules. I’m aware this probably isn’t what you wanted to hear and I’m sorry, lol, I got stuck on a tangent.)