#does anyone want 2000 words of me rambling about either obvious or stretched out things? no

[iyliss]

What does ‘destiny’ means for Saiou and Edo.

Honestly, trying to explain precisely and without missings what « destiny » means in season 2 is rather impossible. I will probably forget things, or maybe aspects will contradict themselves somedays but I don’t really care. There’s too much to tell, and right now I will try to focus on exactly one aspect. What do Saiou and Edo means when they talk about destiny. (Also I will use more or less precise quotes and rephrasing, but I can give the specific lines and episodes. I just don’t like how pictures looks on posts like this, and Im really writing this for myself before anyone else). So. What do I mean by all that. The concept of destiny is often used by both Edo and Saiou but it appears that they don’t really put the same exact meaning behind it. Though when they talk to each other they mostly use it in similar way, some other iterations don’t exactly match. For exemple, Edo initially can’t believe Saiou’s predictions may change or turn out wrong, while Saiou treats it rather calmly. Edo also many times iterates that destiny is an immovable object, that humans can’t pretend alter, while Saiou talks a lot about changing it. So. What does it mean for the both of them and why does it hold different meaning ? And please do know that that is just a massive piece text.

First, let’s consider Edo’s meaning. As said, Edo begin by sincerely thinking that destiny is absolutely impossible to change. It’s something that dictate people’s life, but that they can’t escape nor control beyond having some knowledge of it. In his first duel against Judai, he specify that it is something determined at birth, and already is written as such. In a way, it’s a rather god-like concept : all powerful and beyond humans’ reach. I think this all ties in Edo’s inner desire of some kind of absolute justice. In the earliest episodes, Edo sincerely think there’s a difference between exceptionnal people, who were given abilities and an incredible fate to accomplish, and everyone else who can’t ever reach the firsts’ level. It’s a justice in the sense that everyone will receive in measure of their greatness eventually, which is only given and not chosen. It’s also a justice in the sense of good and evil. Edo clearly doesnt believe in any justice system, chasing criminals himself. As such, destiny is the consequences of being an inherently bad person, that any good person (that Edo surely take himself for) has the right to punish. This divine justice destiny influence as such most of Edo’s early personnality. The way he disrespects others, and the way he grows to view Saiou. One of the thing that made him unable to notice the quite morally wrong things Saiou was doing, is because he still believes that there’s a strict limit between good, innocent people, and those who commits crimes. And Saiou can’t possibly be on the second case. It is further strenghtend by the absoluteness of his concept of destiny, potentially projecting that, destiny being always right, Saiou who incarnates it for him must be as well.

As such, Edo’s challenge against destiny was majorly based on accepting that it does not exist, first by breaking the order it had built. It went by having to face that Saiou may not always be right, but also that he may not be as special as he thought. And that’s the part where Judai is possibly able to save Saiou. If it’s Judai, instead of him, then it means for Edo that he is not really exceptional. It means destiny is wrong, and it means rebuilding the fundation of his ego. That’s why Edo stops talking about destiny rather brutally. The moment the rules break, he can’t do much but let go of them. That’s why, when the Light and Saiou still tells him about destiny, he just ignores it. Between the moment he realized his destiny had lost meaning and then, he ended up viewing himself and Saiou as much more whole and human (and also realized believing in destiny hadn’t help him as much as Saiou in himself had).

As for Saiou’s destiny The way he talks about it make it seem a lot less rigid. At the end his goal is to change it, by meeting Edo, then by observing Judai. He accepts the changes he sees and, as seen in his duel against Manjoume, choice is allowed. His is closer to the uncontrollable consequences of things. It’s kind of the meaning of that duel. Around the end, Saiou asks Manjoume to shuffle his deck before he draws the card on top, which will mean Manjoume either win or lose.  Right there, Manjoume both has and has no choice. He can choose when to stop the shuffling but, in the end, not knowing what card is on top, he doesnt really control anything. Choice matters (it is what decides what card will be on top), but having the right card is not really under control. In all that, Saiou is in a position of knowing what card will be drawn, but not how. He knows the outcome, but not the execution. And this situation of knowing the outcome but having little control over the process is how he uses destiny. That’s his « destiny of destruction » : he knows that he will eventually go through this but is rather powerless when it comes to preventing it. Edo is going to save him ? Sure but he doesnt know why or how, the best he can do is make sure he’s in his life. And so on. The predictions can be wrong, the result can change, but there’s always this aspect of not having control on whats to come. It is close to determinism.

When Saiou challenges his own destiny, it’s by managing to not care about it. The main issue that can arise from a certain kind of determism is the thought that people are actually powerless, and everything is just consequences of causes that can’t be control. The only way to get back control , in  Saiou’s situation, is by knowing the causes. That’s pretty much what he does when he tries to find out who will save him, and just about everytime he reads the future. He’s trying to find the causes of the consequences he already knows. That leads him to never really take actions. That’s one of the meaning behind his saying that he is imprisonned by destiny. Knowing it makes it impossible for him to actually think he’s changing anything. This is one main difference between Edo and Saiou’s concept of destiny. An opposition rather meaningful in season 2, between believing and knowing. Edo believed that some people were inherently better than others. It wasnt really based on any truth, and his path was to let go of that belief. Saiou knows the outcoms, it’s not something that can be undone, causality is based on logic and, at the end, it’s pretty much impossible to stop knowing that causes and consequences are a thing. His development is about not caring about it, or not focusing on it. The last thing Edo says about destiny is that he doesnt believe in it. The last thing Saiou has related to that is refusing to listen to the Light talking about serving destiny. So, no longer focusing on what’s to come, including no longer being able to tell the future.

And if you’re wondering, the meaning Saiou gives to destiny in season 4 is a bit different so… I wont really cover it here.

But, there’s something those two meanings have in common. They are the concentration of what both of them used as children to deal with their situation, and importantly filling the absence of adults in their life, and that they projected on a singular concept.

Edo was found lost and alone after his father’s death. He coped mostly by projecting the guidance he lacked onto his cards (leading to being so protective of them), and the idea of destiny brought by Saiou. I’m comparing the two because, while the D Heroes are quite obviously a reminder of his father, his « destiny » can be too as it is heavily based on heroic narratives. At the end of the day, all his talk about people’s fate being written in advance, the difference between the exceptionnal people, the unimportant one, and the evil ones, it’s like a story. Behind all this, there’s still a little boy dealing with loss by projecting himself into a story (inspired by the heroes from his father), where the hero is brave and strong and better than anyone else despise his tragic past, where there are unimportant npcs here to show how great the hero is, and a Big Bad to save someone he loves from. Thinking everything is written makes sense since it’s how stories always goes. At the beginning, Edo is very passionate about destiny, but also about heroes and how those cards are for him alone. His development goes by both accepting that Judai may save Saiou, that he isnt as important as he believed he was, and that heroes can be just fun as well. And it all comes from what he needed as a child : reassurance, justice (that adults couldn’t provide by not finding his father’s murderer), and promise that he had a future and a happy ending. Destiny was a continuation of his father’s legacy, and a way for him to keep building himself despite the lack of adults in his life.

As for Saiou, he pretty much says he used destiny as a survival tool when he was a kid. Especially to stay sane. The first effect destiny had on him was to keep some kind of rationality. The way he uses his power, and talks about destiny, is quite distant. Being able to understand both what was going on for him, and what would happen (his own prediction) has hardly controllable causalities, allowed him to make sense of it. On one side, as someone with more information, distancing himself surely was one of his own coping mechanism. On the other, thinking that there are so many factors leading to something can reduce guilt, especially when it comes to his « destiny of destruction ». Following destiny meant he wasnt in total control, so it wasnt completely his fault. Even if the whole guilt reducing part may not have worked, it did made him strongly feel like he had no real control on his life. That’s how destiny played for him the role an adult would have. Taking responsibility for his life, his action, and organise it. Saiou talks so often about being guided by destiny, as a way to separate himself from decision and actions he shouldn’t have had to take as a child. Interestingly, Saiou is conscious of using destiny like that since he is a child. When he refers to when he met Edo, he does think of it as his own intention, but view them as wrong. Unlike Edo, who’s transition out of destiny was rather brutal, Saiou don’t have a moment of realization. He may have known for a long time that, even if destiny like that isn’t so good to focus on, he won’t really stop. Escaping destiny in a way is not so much about changing what is to come, but letting go of the concept itself.

So I think Im running out of things to say if I want to keep it focus. I hope it makes some sense and interest, it’s hard constantly reminding myself of how the characters are and what they say so I can put down something coherent. I am pretty sure I won’t agree with some stuff in a bunch of week but I don’t really care, at least now some more thoughts are out in the wild.