#do i tag this as rwde? i feel like shit like this is above petty discourse tags

[hyasinthum]

okay so this latest episode of rwby beyond was beautiful and moving and all, but it never ceases to amaze me how good crwby is at putting their feet in their mouths when it comes to the implications they make about certain things

like what do you MEAN jaune and the gang went to the farmers market to buy farmers? to buy PEOPLE to do AGRICULTURAL LABOUR for them??? temporary arrangement or not, it's Deeply Weird to write your pale-skinned, blond-haired, blue-eyed character buying other sentient creatures. they literally could have written any other quirky afteran interaction. christ, these people need sensitivity readers

[knightofbalance-13]

Infinite Money, Time and Experience!

http://dudeblade.tumblr.com/post/164731657731/how-i-would-fix-menagerie

God damn it, why does there have to be so many fucking images?

Like I said in this post, I wasn’t exactly expecting Menagerie to be so… open.

Okay...Not like that was what they were planning but stuff like money constraints, limited time and limited experience caused things to be cut. This isn’t the first time like what happened in Volume 2 when Pyrrha’s mom had to be cut because they ran out of time. This is something people like you Dudeblade and the rest of the RWDE tag have a hard time considering when making these criticisms. 

As I said before, when I heard that Menagerie was ’crowded’ I was expecting “San Fransisco meets New York City.” I was expecting apartments everywhere. I was expecting trash and homeless people on the street. I was most certainly NOT expecting a paradise island where the markets boast fresh fish.

Paradise island...Paradise Island....

Dudebade, do you know who you sound like?

Sun, right before Blake explained to him WHY it’s so bad: namely that tow thirds of the island is inhabitable desert and he fact that the wildlife is SAID to be deadly than normal. Apparently you must have missed that particular episode...along with anything in Volume that wasn’t centered around Jaune.

I mean, granted this part is a coastal continent, but the fact that something like this:

Is apparently a ‘slap in the face,’ I… just don’t see it.

Yeah, and this:

looks like a tropical paradise.

Excpet that two thirds of this place is uninhabital as well, the people who originated from here were FORCED to live there and has most of the deadliest animals on the planet there. It’s called Australia and serves as the real world inspiration for Meangrie. Doesn’t sound so good now huh? Now factor in that the Fanaus where totally innocent, that the deadly wildlife would cause massive amounts of fear and paranoia which in turn brings Grimm and, by your logic, means that the GRIMM are deadlier than normal. Essentially, the humans who tried sending the Fanus there sent them there to die.

Does this:

look ‘crowded’ to you?

No but these do:

MAybe not New York or San franchisco compact but it’s never said that the population of Remnant is big enough to have cities like that, especially since there are only five major cities. SO if Fanaus only make up 20% of the population and not even all of them live on Menagrie (Proof: Sun and Neon) why would they be that compact in the first place.

Then there’s the issue of creating, rendering and animating all of those people. RWBy is on a very tight schudle: So tight that sometimes they need a filler episode just so they give an episode some polish and each episode is worked on up until it airs so putting the strain you are asking for would either mean months of delays, which the fandom would NOT be happy about, cutting corners which you would complain about instead or increasing the cost of sponsorship or locking RWBY behind a paywall entirely. IE this is a terrible idea.

If we’re being honest with ourselves, it really doesn’t. It looks like a village on the coast. They boast fresh produce despite most of the land being “Uninhabitable desert” and have one-story houses.

Yeah and Australia managed this as well: Your “realism” arguments don’t work when there is a real world counterpart which overrides anything you say/

And as for the houses: look at them.

They are mostly one room looking shacks that look poorly made and feeble. They aren’t very well made looking aside for Blake’s home so it reeks of being rushed and desperate. There are more ways of telling us this isn't the best place on Remnant than just throwing a shit ton of people onscreen.

I’d rather have a timeshare in Menagerie than in any other place we’ve seen in Remnant. Even Mistral with it’s mountaintop homes looks mediocre compared to this.

Then you’d die in about a week from a venomous snake bite, or eating a poisonous fruit or getting eaten by a Grimm (probably some Hydra looking thing. Maybe a Chimera.) If you had paid attention Dudeblade, Blake outright says how bad of an idea that is and how stupid Sun (and by extension, you) are for thinking this.

But onto the big part of this post.

How would one go about fixing what we’re told, and what we’re shown?

While also working within the same time frame because editing anything out of Volume 4 will have serious consequences since its barely able to convey as much as it did. This must also be done with the same budget, with the same amount of time and with the same people.

Well, the easy thing would be to have someone offhandedly say that this is the aristocratic part of Menagerie. Say that this is where the rich and elite live.

Then why is Ghira’s house so big then? His house is a lot bigger than everyone else so if you said this, this makes Ghira and by extension Blake seem greedy and selfish. Congrats, you destroyed one of your main characters.

- The problem with this is that aside from the Belladonna house, houses are small, and wooden. It doesn’t exactly scream ‘aristocratic’ to me.

But it would at least make it look less like the Faunus are having a victim complex, and make it look more like this basically being a place that they can be, but still have a slight degree of feeling like second-class citizens.

Actually, it would make them look like they have MORE of a victim complex for giving up so many of their limited space and resources for a class of citizens which, considering their history, shouldn’t exist outside of former leaders of the WHite Fang IE Ghira and Kali. They are not only small and wooden but cheap looking, unstable, rushed and one room looking so they DO in fact look bad. 

The hard thing would be to overhaul what Menagerie looks like completely.

For starters, get rid of the open markets. Change those to grocery stores with those bars in front that are used to keep robbers out after closing.

Like the metal bars seen in this image:

Why would the Fanaus have robbers? Considering how close knit the Fanaus on Menagrie are, that sounds like it would go against their culture. Not mention it would ruin the tribalistic, jungle esthetic and replace it with generic boring markets you would see anywhere. Yeah, maybe it could help a little but you are sacrificing a lot of appeal in the animation for realism. And considering that appeal is one of the twelve principles of animation and there’s this thing that 90% of people have called “The Willing SUspension Of Disbelief”, it’s wholely unnecessary and detrimental.

That’s one of the steps to take. Another would be to replace all the scattered,  one-story houses with apartments, homeless shelters, and shoddy condos. If you absolutely HAVE to have one-story houses, take a look at San Fransisco, and bunch them close together.

A. That looks ugly as shit. Seriously, if anyone thinks that this is a good idea for a colorful and vibrant show, I want you to never work in animation lest someone accidentally watch your show.

B. VALE doesn’t even look like this, and Vale houses both humans and Fanaus. Menagrie only has Fanaus members. So why shouydl Menagrie look more crowded than the actual main capitals of the world?

C. That sure is a lot of models that need to be built from scratch, rendered from scratch, colored from scratch and edited from scratch: You must either have more free time than I do or more money than my family combined. Because otherwise, you are telling RT to do unnecessary stuff that could very well make RWBY not profitable or not profitable to expand in Volume 5.

Make the land look less habitable too. Taking a look at the concept art, Menagerie looks like you could put a hotel on the coast and give the continent revenue.

... Make a hotel...for a more in habitable and ugly place... How stupid do you think people are?

Another thing, would to have dark alleyways that petty thugs could use to hide in, to mug other people or for the homeless to hide in behind dumpsters.

Why? Ignoring how that would make the fanaus even stupider than humans, who you insist on winning a  Darwin award, Ghira, the former leader of the WHite Fang, lives there: He would work hard to get rid of such things to protect his people. Now you want Ghira to look incompetent? Jesus.

And if it IS supposed to be crowded, then make the placings of buildings LOOK the part

Stop: First off, Dudeblade uses the most close up shots imaginable which would look more spaced out but anything that looks farther away, like my above examples, shows they are closer to one another. Secondly, if they were any closer Dudeblade than they would serve to stop functioning properly. You need to maneuver to get to your house so having another house right in front of you just serves to make thing unnecessarily complicated.

There aren’t even a whole lot of buildings to convey an illusion that it’s crowded. By the looks of this concept art,

There’s an ENTIRE BLOCK just waiting to have houses put on them. So crowded,am I right? It’s so crowded, that they don’t have spaces for homes ON THE OPEN SPACES FOR HOMES THEY SO CLEARLY HAVE!

... I want the people reading this o look on the other side of the street and then look again at the “empty spaces”: notice how there are shadowy walls rising uo from the spaces? that’s because there are HOUSES there, as proven by the symmetry on the other side of the street. Dudeblade literally didn’t understand that the concept art just depicted a few houses as see through to get a good look at the street from this angle. He was serious, put emphasis on this, built up to this argument and treats it as damning evidence (look at the post for yourself, please do.) This is why he cannot be taken seriously.

Put factories everywhere too. Judging by the market that they have, Menagerie could easily be a continent that exports fruits and vegetables.

They could even export silks, and fishing equipment. They are clearly in no shortage in the food department, so turn Menagerie into a place where metals get processed. Turn it into a place where you can’t even see the sun because of the smog in the sky.

A. Probably not enough people to warrant such an area without massive retcons in the very same Volume. 

B. Whose to say they don’t already export food? You can’t act like they don’t if there is no proof saying so.

C. Um...that much smog would kill farms and cause them to starve. And you say Renamnt is out for a Darwin award.

This is less of a zoo and more of a nature preserve. It’s pristine. It’s clean. It’s nice. It’s a place that I would want to live in, and have fun on the beach  - speaking of.

Make the beaches less hospitable. Make the beaches look less like a surf spot, and more like…

Yeah. That. Make the beaches look more like that.

Ah yes, a nature preserve...where you are forced live...outside of yoru natural habitat...against your will...which si two thirds inhbaital...with a  shit ton of deadly wildlife out to kill you...WITH HUMAN PEOPLE.

Also:

From Australia, Menagrie’s real world counterpart. Not that unrealistic.

Now for Blake’s home.

Look, you can keep Blake having a loving family. You can keep Ghira being the former head of the White Fang. You can even have him be the head of the Menagerian Council (Personal replacement for having him be a chieftain).But change where he lives.

Make his place one of the apartments or one of those houses that ar bundled close with another house. Make it slightly run-down, and keep the scene of Blake hesitating to knock on the door with Sun encouraging her.

Because Blake having a loving family totally devalues her character...when she never explicitly said she suffered, just that Fanaus people have suffered. ANot like this helps the compare and contrast with her and Weiss at all.

And the the Fanaus look like ungrateful assholes: This guy put himself in charge of a peaceful protest group that probably got beaten and abused everyday, was a prime target for assassination everyday of his life and no doubt got very little thanks and probably questioned his motives every single day and all these people can do is give him a shitty apartment.

You see, if you remove Ghira and Kali being leaders of the WHite Fang, then Blake’s connection and devoution to the group just looks stupid. without it, she looks delusional in thinking she can reform something so corrupt and fallen. But with the knowledge that her family built the White Fang or at least lead it, this makes her struggle all the more personal; logical and relateable. She keeps fighting for the WHite Fang because it was something her parents did and she is no doubt proud of them, her attempts at reforming the WHite Fang are nit delusional because her family built it up, she personally knows the good they can do, and it becomes relateable because we can relate to fighting for a cause that our parents did because we look up to them and respect and admire them. Hell, this even helps connect her and Weiss even closer than before through a uniformed attempt at taking back what their families built.

... And I came up with that on the spot. Wow, RWBY has got a lot going on under the surface.

Have noise indicate that there is someone directly on the other side of the door, and a small pause. Have a conversation on the other side, and have Kali open the door carefully. Have her be hesitant about it, being worried that Adam might be next to Blake.

Why? Ignroing the fact that if Adam did kill Ghira, the entire contient and species of Fanaus would be out for his blood, Ghira is so fucking tall and muscular I keep mistaking him for a Joestar or a Stand. Pretty sure he could pound Adam into a bloody mush.

And once she realizes that Sun is no threat, have her throw the door open, and embrace Blake.

Keep that family reunion. But add a little more. Have Blake tear up at the fact that Ghira and Kali keeping her room the same way it was after she had left.

Again, why? This is covered by Ghira and Blake’s talk so this is just burning time in a time stretched Volume. Congrats, you have a Jaune arc.

And another thing? - that chase scene with Ilia. KEEP IT. But it would look more awesome in a crowded city. Have Blake and Sun lose her in the crowd of people returning home from the graveyard shift at the factory.

Then they don’t know about Adam going to Mistral, Sun doesn’t get injuried, blake isn't taught her lesson and this whole plotline ends up in the trash.

Look, you can’t claim to show racism, without showing the ugly. One or two isolated incidents aren’t enough. Have hate groups like “Humans against Animals” as a metaphor for another certain hate group

You mean like BLM, a group that buds in on LGBT marches to talk about killing cops, refuses to akcnwoledge bias against white people and advocate for the deaths of white people because they are white? Oh wait...

And what about Roman? What about Cardin? They exist and they show the racism well enough, especially combined with Death Australia here.

Make their home ugly. Make it look like a place that people would go to for manual labor. Don’t make it look like a place for a vacation.

Trying to claim that Menagerie is a “Slap in the face” is confusing to me because it looks nice. It doesn’t look like a “Slap in the face” to me. It looks like “Okay! You kicked our ass! Here! Take this continent that has hospitable land and can support a battalion and then some!”

Menagerie my ass, this place should be called Themyscira because this is basically Paradise Island!

A. The you automatically ignore one of the principles of animation.

And B. Agan you sound like Sun. Word for word. (https://youtu.be/uUwuZdbUzT8?t=2m23s) But unlike SUn you have no excuse for yoru ignorance.

And C. Yeah, a paradise...that is who thirds uninhabitable...that is filled with so much poison you have to wonder if Satan didn’t wiz there...and you’re forced there...because of yoru race...and everyone keeps calling a paradise...in a world where anger and sadness is LITERALLY deadly.

I’d ask if you know how ignorant you sound but I’m pretty sure it would fly over your head.