#could blame that on alchemax maybe? but idk man i just--

[iobartach]

been thinking lately 👀 ;

of the idea that miguel is not using his full strength? like if i were to put an arbitrary figure against it, let's say he uses about 70% of his full potential, on average? maybe less? for reasons that may revolve around, or relate to... him being not so keen to lean into the more spidery aspects of his messed up existence? because he, perhaps, still wants to approach things with a human perspective?

this is on my mind so much

[mangoisms]

OKAY here they are... my thoughts on atsv. more thoughts i mean. in numerical order for. no reason in particular. as usual spoilers for the movie!!! ok here we go under the cut because this got REALLY long LMAOOOOO

1. miles never realizing why gwen was on earth 1610 and it never really being addressed. or rather - he let it slip past him until it really mattered. not blaming her (mostly) just. something i noticed, especially since they never discussed why she was there and also never really discussed the implication of her being there to monitor spot. idk my thoughts on That are not particularly articulate but There Is Something There. For Me.

2. ok once again about inspector singh. except this time about the implications of gwen being alerted about an 'incoming canon event.' like first of all that gwen had to Be Okay (or perhaps resigned?) with knowing that pavitr would suffer because of that and still holding back. not her fault because i can absolutely see how jess and miguel would take advantage of her in a vulnerable moment (like when her own dad pointed a gun at her and was willing to actually arrest her) and guilt her into thinking it’s Okay. especially because it’s for a friend. and on that thought. what about pavitr?? did he know??? did they tell him?? because if he was part of it… shouldn’t he know??? like if that's their Whole Thing. maintaining canon, patching up alleged holes in the universe... you know what i mean?

3. when miguel is trying to make his case for miles to let his dad die and he points to what happened in pavitr’s dimension. quantum collapse i think they called it? it brings me back to the thing of like. correlation ≠ causation???? Because presumably the only universe/dimension to collapse was miguel’s when he. you know. Replaced A Dead Man. and then it didn’t happen again. or that's what i assume. and i know the next question there is, well, then how could he get everyone onboard with this canon stuff? i think the collapse of miguel's universe in tandem with them realizing that their lives (the spiders' lives i mean) inextricably intertwine and repeat, so to speak, helped make the case of 'canon' being so important.

but my whole point about That is... how do they really know that pavitr’s dimension is going to unravel because of what miles did by saving inspector singh and not just because of what spot did? becuase they said he was dimension-hopping to places with alchemax/particle colliders but we never really see what happens to the other particle colliders that spot uses but presumably (it would benefit my theory so i’m biased) he just used them as go-points to gain spots and to keep moving? and then here, he levels up so to speak, right? which is why it exploded? and THAT’S why the dimension is unraveling? ALL IM SAYING IS. they don’t actually know. i think.

4. not a lot going on here but i continue to be astonished at how all of it comes back to these adults seemingly failing these kids. jess (and miguel i guess) were looking out for gwen and were in fact reluctant to take her on but at the first sign of a mistake, they're turning on her! or rather, unable to stop themselves from throwing her mistake into her face. you know??? and dgmw she made a mistake but i also think they maybe could've. uh. counseled her on everything going on with her dad instead of. doing all that. because it was ultimately going to culminate in her going to see miles. but of course we need it for the sake of the story but i still think their treatment of her is just so harsh and i know!!! she made mistakes!!!! i was definitely annoyed with her!!! but like. you know??

and then miles too. like. i talked about it before but it's just so bleak. how miguel has genuinely convinced all these people that the tragedies that seemingly mark a spiders' life are unavoidable and that even with foreknowledge of it, should still happen. and that miles has to stand to the side and just. let it happen. moreover the way miguel like genuinely blames miles for what happened and how he became the anomaly and thus, the reason his dad is going to die, like it really really really feels like there was a whole lot of resentment on miguel's side, probably combining that with the fact that miles does not want to listen to him and will not listen to him. but then peter b too! miles expects him to back him up, expects gwen to back him up, but they don't and he's left all alone. not to mention his repeated insistences against them belittling him as a kid - which he is but it's obviously used against him. like oh he's just a kid. he doesn't know better. of course he's wrong for pointing out the obvious flaws in miguel's thought process - literal algorithm - on 'canon' and the spider-verse, he's just a kid. and no he isn't entirely justified in wanting to save his dad, like it's some childish ideal, right, because the canon is what matters the most. when in all actuality!!!!! that's his dad.

(i said not a lot going on here and i lied. sorry LMAO)

5. also during the train scene when miles first glitches after his day pass comes off (the first or second time? one of the times), he glitches to his 14 y/o self when he was wearing the spider costume he got from the store ☹️

6. ALSO. their strength. it's always interesting in comics, particularly the spiders, i think, that their strength fluctuates, so one day they might be able to hold up an entire building and the next, they're getting beat up by like. Some Guy. and yeah you can say it's adrenaline but i also just think it's like, comic mechanics? which is Fine. this isn't a complaint but i kinda feel we see it in atsv? like we had gwen, miguel, and jess’ combined strength to stop the helicopter in the beginning and they were visibly straining. maybe that was just because of how fast the helicopter was coming down but still, when you compare it to later on, when you have just gwen and hobie more or less holding up an entire chunk of the alchemax building.... it's interesting. and i mean, yeah, they weren't able to hold it up but. You know????

i think that's it. i really want to own this movie. there is just so much to it. it's so good. oh god

[traincat]

I saw on your Twitter about your love of Spider-Man ships, and I was wondering if you could expand on them? I know about Peter/MJ and Peter/Gwen, but that's about it. (And maybe Peter/Liz? Idk if that's just an MCU thing or not.)

I love, love, love the women of Spider-Man and I think 616Spider-Man has some of the best love stories and some of the best romanticchemistry in comics. PeterGwen and PeterMJ are the big ones, along withPeterFelicia, but he’s had a number of relationships over the years – CissieIronwood (Marvel Team Up vol1 #80-81, #90, Annual #2), Marcy Kane, Deb Whitman,an implied casual hookup with his neighbor Bambi, a thing with his work wife,reporter Joy Mercado – okay this one didn’t actually happen-happen,but it happened in my heart, and they did kiss. I love her and will refer toher as his work wife forever. But let’s start at the beginning, since you askedabout Liz Allan. PeterMJ and PeterGwen are considered the big Spider-Man lovetriangle, but Peter was involved in plenty of romantic drama before either MaryJane or Gwen was ever introduced on the page. One of the big things I loveabout Spider-Man are how, even after the romantic relationships are over, theseries lets its female characters continue to have big roles in Peter Parker’slife, and that’s the case with both Betty Brant and Liz Allan, the leadingladies of the original Spider-Man love triangle. PeterLiz is athing, although it’s very different from the way the MCU portrayed it, so let’sstart there.

Liz Allan: Liz is one of the longest running Spider-Mancharacters and one of the few to debut in Amazing Fantasy #15 along with Peterhimself, Flash Thompson, Aunt May and Uncle Ben. While Peter initially had acrush on Liz, who was at the time dating Flash Thompson (everyone in theSpider-Man friend group has dated everyone at one point or another), Peter soongot over it when he met J Jonah Jameson’s secretary Betty Brant – only for Lizto develop a crush on Peter after. She openly flirted with him, causingtensions between Peter and Betty and Peter and Flash both.

(Amazing Spider-Man #17)

Liz faded out of the picture for a bit after confessing her feelings to Peter at their high school graduation in Amazing Spider-Man #28, only to make her return in Amazing Spider-Man #132, when Peter encounters her wandering the streets exhausted and troubled over her step-brother, Max Raxton, the Molten Man, a one-time supervillain who would later reform.

Liz later met Harry Osborn at Betty Brant’s wedding and the two quickly fell in love and got married. (Everyone in Spider-Man has been involved with everyone in Spider-Man.) They have one son together, Norman Osborn Jr. They probably should have thought on that name a little more. (Harry has a second child with a woman named Lily Hollister.)

(Amazing Spider-Man Annual #17 – everyone in Spider-Man has also made out with everyone in Spider-Man, regardless of relationship status.) 

Peter and Mary Jane even lived in the same building as Liz and Harry for a while, up until Harry’s death (long story – he got better). Liz took over Oscorp in the wake of Harry’s death, briefly had a relationship with Daredevil’s Foggy Nelson, and eventually became CEO of Alchemax. Recently, she and Harry got back together in Amazing Spider-Man #789.

Some Liz issues:

Amazing Spider-Man #1-28: Liz has moments scattered all through the high school years, including ASM #6, where she develops a crush on Spider-Man, ASM #17, where she schemes to get Peter to attend a meeting of the Spider-Man fan club, ASM #25 when she first meets Mary Jane, ASM #26 where she breaks up a fight between Peter and Flash, and ASM #28 where she confesses her feelings for Peter.

Webspinners #9: A more modern Spider-Man high school flashback, Peter finds himself in trouble when he accidentally ends up with both Liz and Betty believing they’re going to prom with him. An excellent look at how smothered and trapped Liz felt as a teenager.

Amazing Spider-Man #132-133: Liz makes her reappearance.

Amazing Spider-Man #153: Liz asks Harry out, starting their relationship.

Amazing Spider-Man#166: Liz and Harry announce they’re getting married.

Amazing Spider-Man #172-180: When Liz is arrested for attempted robbery, she temporarily leaves Harry, believing herself no good for him.

Spectacular Spider-Man #85: Liz announces she’s pregnant.

Amazing Spider-Man #260-263: Mary Jane and a heavily pregnant Liz are kidnapped. Harry, in an attempt to rescue them, ends up captured as well. Later, Liz gives birth to her and Harry’s son. 

Spectacular Spider-Man #178-184, #189-190, #200, #204: The Child Within/The Harry Osborn Saga. Haunted by his father’s evil legacy and poisoned by the belief that Peter killed his father, Harry spirals back into the Green Goblin and Liz’s family falls apart. The Child Within (Spectacular Spider-Man #178-184) is one of my favorite storylines of all time, a truly haunting read. Content warning for childhood abuse, including childhood sexual abuse, not of Harry but definitely paralleled against Norman’s abuse of Harry. In #189-190, Harry kidnaps Liz, Normie, and Liz’s stepbrother Mark. Spectacular Spider-Man #200 is the death of Harry Osborn, and in my personal opinion one of if not THE most stunning comic book issue of all time. In #204, Liz and friends receive Harry’s video will. 

Peter Parker #75: Norman Osborn returns from the dead and threatens Liz. Also has some good Liz&Flash content.

Marvel Knights Spider-Man #7: Peter and Liz attend Midtown High’s reunion.

Amazing Spider-Man #581-582: Harry Osborn, returned from the dead, attempts to right some wrongs for Liz.

Amazing Spider-Man #789, #799-800: Liz and Harry rekindle their romance, only to have their children kidnapped. Cards on the table: I hate this story arc and think it’s terrible! But I do love every panel with Liz in it, so, that’s the toss up.

Liz has also made some recent appearances in Eddie Brock’s Venom series.

Betty Brant: Like Liz, Betty’s one of the longest running Spider-Man cast members. The title of Spider-Man’s first girlfriend is commonly and erroneously granted to Gwen Stacy, but Peter actually first dated Betty Brant in 616. First appearing in Amazing Spider-Man #4, Betty worked as J Jonah Jameson’s secretary and she and Peter quickly became close.

(Amazing Spider-Man #7 – another common error is assuming Peter’s always been awkward/shy around girls. “Nothing, baby… for at least an hour!” Smooth.)

(Amazing Spider-Man #11)

Betty and Peter’s relationship wasn’t without its own issues, though. Betty was jealous of Liz’s flirtations with Peter, but things really came to a head when her brother, Bennett Brant, was murdered. Betty blamed Spider-Man for his death, and Peter felt that this meant he could never tell her his secret identity. They still continued the relationship, complicated by the appearance of Ned Leeds, a reporter for the Daily Bugle who was also interested in Betty. Though she loved Peter more, Ned seemed to offer Betty the stability she craved. After his high school graduation, Peter planned to propose to Betty (yes, at age eighteen, with a part time job, and still living in his aunt’s home, he planned to propose, because Peter Parker LOVES proposing) but things didn’t go as planned.

(Amazing Spider-Man #30)

After a long engagement, Betty finally married Ned Leeds in Amazing Spider-Man #156. The two left for France, where Ned was on assignment. Ned worked long hours and Betty found herself completely isolated, alone in a country where she didn’t speak the language. She left Ned and returned to New York, where her and Peter’s feelings for each other were rekindled.

(Amazing Spider-Man #189)

Peter and Betty’s affair was short-lived after Ned returned. While he and Betty attempted to reconcile their marriage, it continued to deteriorate, and Betty sought comfort in Flash Thompson, who had at this point become one of Peter’s closest friends. The two would have an on-again, off-again relationship for years, and through it all Betty’s remained one of Peter’s most important relationships.

(Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #20)

Some Betty issues:

Amazing Spider-Man #4: Betty’s first appearance.

Amazing Spider-Man #7: Peter and Betty begintheir romance.

Amazing Spider-Man #10-11: When Betty disappearsfrom town, Peter goes after her – only for Spider-Man to become embroiled in anincident that leads to the death of her older brother, Bennett. 

Untold Tales of Spider-Man #12: Betty’s backstoryrevealed, including the details of the relationship she had before Peter, andwhy his thrill-seeking disturbed her so deeply.

Amazing Spider-Man #30: Betty reveals that NedLeeds has proposed to her, and Peter plans to propose to her himself, only forthe shadow of Spider-Man to come between them.

Amazing Spider-Man #156: After a long engagement,Betty and Ned marry. Peter is the best man – I can only assume because Neddidn’t have any friends. Betty and Ned leave for Europe.

Amazing Spider-Man #184, #186, #188, #189, #193, #195: AfterMary Jane turns down Peter’s marriage proposal, he finds Betty waiting for himin his apartment, where she tells him she’s separated from Ned. She and Peterbriefly engage in an affair before Ned returns.

Spectacular Spider-Man #96, #97, #98, #100: Withthe cracks reappearing in her marriage to Ned, a chance encounter throws Bettyand Flash Thompson together and the two begin seeing each other behind theirrespective significant others’ backs.

Spectacular Spider-Man #107–110: The Death of JeanDeWolff. Betty becomes important in the closing act of this story when she’sattacked by Sin Eater, causing Peter to fly into a rage.

Amazing Spider-Man #275, #280, #283, #284: WhenFlash is framed and arrested, suspected of being the Hobgoblin, Betty’smarriage further crumbles. Twice Peter witnesses Ned be physically intimidatingtowards her, once grabbing her in the middle of the Bugle offices. Betty andFlash reunite.

Amazing Spider-Man #289, Spectacular Spider-Man #128-129: AfterNed’s death in Spider-Man vs Wolverine, Betty cracks under the stress andsuffers a mental breakdown. Flash attempts to help.

Web of Spider-Man #40-43: When Betty joins a cult(look, I love her, but she makes some bad decisions) both Spider-Man and Flashgo to extremes to get her out.

Spectacular Spider-Man #148: During the Infernocrossover, Flash and Betty are both haunted – him by a false Spider-Man, andher by the specter of her dead husband.

Web of Spider-Man #91-93: I will simply describethis story as Betty, Get Your Gun.

Daily Bugle #1-3: In this three issue blackand white miniseries, Betty’s on a case and Peter plays guard dog.

Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #20-22: In thewake of Civil War’s identity reveal, Peter and Betty talk about his beingSpider-Man. Also an insect lady tries to eat Flash or fill him with eggs orsomething like that. Betty continues to have her gun.

Amazing Spider-Man #583: The time Marvel put Obamaon the cover and tricked everyone into buying a whole issue of Peter and Bettyhanging out. It’s a really cute story, though, and one of my favorites forthem.

Amazing Spider-Man #665: Spider-Man’s out forblood when Betty’s the victim of a violent mugging. Also establishes Peter andBetty’s movie nights.

Venom (2011): Betty’s a major character for most of thebeginning of Flash’s Venom run, through issue #21 – Flash’s secret status asAgent Venom threatens their relationship. Also her brother shows back up! Youknow, the dead one. Comics, they do that.

Amazing Spider-Man Annual #42: I don’t like the plot ofthis issue, but it is some of the most recent Peter&Betty interaction, andthe opening scene features them at a fortune teller’s parlor and it is verycute.