#contributing fandom member. You don't have to be anything. But the idea that you have to be quiet and keep silent about your fandom

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

Hey, I don't normally make my own posts about this, but.

Do not argue with an anti on their own terms.

Don't get me wrong, I get it. You see the hypocrisy. You see the way they take aim at your favorite ships or characters or tropes while enjoying something similar. And you think "if I can point out to them just how hypocritical and idiotic they look right now, everyone will see our argument, they'll see that the anti is wrong and a hypocrite, and then maybe more people will stop harassing the people who like my thing. Maybe the anti will see the light and stop being a hypocrite."

But it will not work. It will not work.

There is an extremely high chance one of two things will occur:

They will double down on their argument, and ignore what you've said. (Ex. They might say "This relationship has an age gap. That's p3dophi1ia. That's dangerous." And you might say "well you ship something with the same age gap. Is it not p3dophi1ia and dangerous when you do it?" And they will just double down and say "This ship is dangerous. The shippers are grasping at straws to make their p3d0 ship normal.")

They will agree with you, but in the worst way possible. (Ex. Someone says "Ew your ship are basically siblings because they're childhood friends and grew up together. 1nc3st apologist." And you might respond "And yet we allow our most popular ship in this fandom to be popular? They grew up together as childhood friends and were inseparable. Why is that not inc3st?" because you think they'll gain a sense of perspective here. But then that person responds "People who ship that popular ship are freaks too then." Maybe they believed that before the convo or maybe they didn't, but the point now is that (while not your intention or fault by any means) some people have gone on to harass shippers of a ship that aren't doing anything wrong. What you think will bring clarity ends up raising tensions between shippers instead)

Do not meet them where they're at on their preconceived notions. You will not make them believe that they are wrong or hypocrites. Do not concede to their heavy assertions of abuse, p3dophi1ia, 1nc3st, etc levied against the thing you like for the sake of arguing that they are a hypocrite, or with intent to make them feel dumb for inadvertently labeling 80% of a fandom with said labels. They will not "see the light". The best thing you can do, if you have to say anything, is double down with "I'm not hurting anyone and it's fiction. I can do whatever I want" or "I don't give a shit what harmless things people like as long as it's tagged and I can filter out what I dislike" (especially if this is your stance). Then block and move on.

Antis, like trolls, thrive on engagement. They want you to argue so they can continue to point at you or lie about you or make you look bad.

It is in your best interest to pick your battles, and to try to sus out the difference between a friendly argument or standing up for yourself versus feeding the trolls. You won't make the right choice every time, all of us are human after all, but I promise you that ignoring and blocking bad faith actors, deleting their hate anons, etc, is not the coward's way out. Sometimes you don't need to fight. Sometimes keeping yourself from platforming bad faith actors and giving them nothing to go on will do the job (because there are more antis that are just small blogs with little power to do anything than you think, the kinds of people whose inflammatory posts will die if no one touches them).

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[the-creative-lounge-blog]

The video features custom community emojis by @azuzeldraws

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[voyeur-clairvoyant]

hey there! I'm not sure whether this has been asked before or not, but I thought I might give it a try nonetheless.

what are the main differences between the TdM system and the RWS one, if there are any, in your opinion?

I'm looking forward to writing a blog about it, so I'm trying to gather as much information from as many people as possible. thanks beforehand!

Hi there! Thank you for asking and GOD I hope I'm late because I've been thinking non-stoping about this for the last days just to give you a complete answer. You have no idea how happy I'm to contribute with some firewood to the good ol' war between decks hashahsa.

For me, the biggest difference between both decks and schools of thought is that the RWS Tarot can BARELY be considered a tarot deck (and this is not necessarily a bad thing).

It's a "tarot" in the same way that Taco Bell's "tacos" are tacos. Technically they are and I can't say anything about it but when you compare them with authentic tacos you realize there are enormous issues in their construction, their ingredients, their history and the culture around them.

They are perfectly """edible""".

Now, I'm the first to admit it, Pamela and Arthur's deck changed not only cartomancy but the perception of the entire world around it. Pamela's exquisite artistry and innovative idea of ​​illustrating the minor arcana made it BY FAR the most important tarot deck of all times. HONOR TO WHOM HONOR IS DUE. And as cartomants we owe respect to the deck (and its creators) for literally bringing cartomancy into modernity. It is directly responsible for the fact that we are discussing this topic today and for all the extraordinary artistic madness of hundreds and hundreds of new decks that are printed and designed.

HOWEVER. The deck has HUGE and unacceptable errors that split the modern study of tarot into two and a thousand pieces, but I have to give their case justice. Arthur Edward Waite and Pamela Colman Smith were members of the Golden Dawn and their plan was to create a tarot deck with the ritual, sacred and symbolic associations of the order.

Is it their fault that their niche deck escaped containment? Of course not. We are used to working with luck, it is our territory, so it's no surprise that the mass popularization of tarot (and this deck in particular) came with an equally destructive counterpart. I can't blame them, Geek culture (and fandom in general) has to live every day with the Horrors and Pleasures of seeing their niche content, intended for a few, be dismembered and multiplied in the hyper-globalized sphere of "normie" culture.

I'm in several tarot groups on Facebook and the question every day is: What is the best deck for beginners? And the truth is that I don't know what to answer.

I have read with both systems and right now, my little TdM is my tool par excellence. I admit that the "dry" art of the minor arcana and the deck in general is an acquired taste. There are such beautiful and impressive decks out there that I completely understand why not many decide to stick with the tarot world's equivalent of vanilla triple condom missionary sex (although this is an aesthetic issue that is being called into question with new decks).

What I don't understand is the conception that the Marseille tarot is more complicated than the RWS!

If the TdM school is characterized (or could be characterized, I curse you Jodorowsky!) by austerity and lack of expressiveness, the RWS school is characterized by paranoia and the pseudo-complexity of symbols and structures.

By "paranoia" I mean the obssesive search for hidden meanings or mystical secrets and messages. Usually where there are none.

Reading with an RWS deck for the first time is a horrible experience and we are very much to blame for scaring away beginner readers. Assuming that you have survived the countless myths that all decks carry (it must be a gift, it's satanic, don't read on Sunday) you realize that you don't know how to read it. Each of the 78 cards has a different scene and all of them are full of symbols. What do the pomegranates on the High Priestess' veil mean? What the fuck is a High Priestess? Why do some cards have names and others don't??? It is an aggressive sea of ​​information that ends up drowning anyone.

But that is not all! Now comes the plot twist and it turns out that not only you have to learn 78 meanings (in equally confusing websites or books) but that each card has a different meaning in reverse. 156 cards in total, each with a series of extensive meanings for love, family, work, money, health, etc. And as if that weren't enough, the spreads look like this:

Where each of the positions has an extra layer of meaning. This is not a specific problem of the RWS but we have long since passed that point, we only have to manage the disaster that its globalization carried.

The big problem with RWS and its school of thought is that in the process of making a more intuitive tool, it became a creature that feeds on the paranoia of its readers. It is an excellent deck to spread on the table and read lightly: The faces and situation of the characters are clear, the art is friendly and reading is easy. A 10 of swords is an obvious image of failure and pain, the 3 of cups inspires joy and suggests party and friends. It is a tool that fuses the allegorical advantages of a classic tarot deck with the everyday fluidity of a sibyl or an oracle. It has nothing to envy an Italian Sibyl or a Kipper deck.

It is human, intuitive and beautiful.

The problem comes when we want to extract more of it. Being a ritual deck, it is impregnated from top to bottom with numerological, astrological, Hebrew, Egyptian, etc. associations of magic and occultism derived from the not very convincing knowledge of the GOLDEN DAWN. It was not intended to be a deck for common and mundane divination use.

The average casual cartomancer knows the meanings of the cards because they read them on a website (and hopefully in a book/video). Most people don't know who Pixie or Arthur Waite is and probably haven't read any of their original texts. What's worse, there's a good chance you're not a member of the Golden Dawn and you also don't know that previous decks exist. All those symbols and associations that served an original purpose become a mental burden when reading with it.

What good does it do me to know that the coins in the 10 of coins represent the Tree of Life or that the Magician transfers the energies of the High to the Low, alluding to one of the magical premises of the Tabula Smaragdina ("As above, so below") when what I want to know IS IF MY EX WOULD GET BACK TO ME???

A lot of information but useless information. And that's still the best case scenario. At worst…

The incomplete fusion of poorly understood mystical allusions, an intuitive deck loosely anchored in classical cartomancy and the whitewashed psychology of the New Age in search of alternative therapies gave birth to a monster: EVOLUTIONARY TAROT. (But that's another story. The evolutionary tarot isn't really bad in its conception, but the road to Hell is paved in good intentions ahhasha. I have already a post about it).

If the RWS school got rid of the complicated spreads, the reversed cards, the useless lists of meanings, the obsession with symbols and FOCUSED on Pixie's illustrations and read Arthur's original texts it would be easier to use its tool without losing their marbles in the process, but that is going against the current and not analyzing the existing reality.

By illustrating the minor arcana, the deck became more friendly but in exchange it lost the hierarchy of the major arcana. In the image there are 3 major and 3 minor arcana, but visually they have the same weight and therefore, the same relevance when this SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. The Sun cannot be on the same level as a 10 of Swords no matter how bloody the card is.

Another situation: Let's focus on the Wheel card. I already made a post about it that you can find on my blog, but in summary there is a HUGE difference between this arcane in the RWS and the TdM. Which is saying a lot when the TdM's Wheel is itself extremely defective.

If the RWS tarot does not respect the hierarchy of the arcana, many of them are "badly" represented, or at least incomplete without the contribution of Arthur and the Golden Dawn, it does not have a divinatory purpose and illustrates its minor arcana based on external sources such as Etteilla, numerology, astrology, etc… CAN WE CONTINUE CONSIDERING IT A TAROT?

I suspect not and this is not a bad thing. On the contrary, it has an extraordinary place as a multipurpose oracle that could be developed more freely without the pretension of wanting to be (without actually being) a tarot deck.

And yet, the Marseille tarot is the one that has the reputation of being MOST COMPLICATED!!!???

As I said before, honor to whom honor is due and therefore, dishonor to whom dishonor is deserved ahsahsa. Alejandro Jodorowsky did an enormous job to popularize the TdM deck but he missed a VERY SMALL detail like other important tarot figures such as Papus and Eliphas Levi:

The PARANOIA.

I love you friends, but if I hear someone say again that the Tarot of Marseille holds mystical secrets in its geometry, I'm gonna kill someone ahsahsa. ENOUGH, for mercy's sake! Many beginners infected with the mystical paranoia of the RWS come to the classic decks with the same perception of hermetic and conspiratorial symbology, which is fueled by the LITERAL search for easter eggs and hidden meanings popularized by the aforementioned characters. Sometimes two cups are TWO CUPS and 3 swords are THREE SWORDS. There are no secret codes involved but who seeks finds and sooner or later you will end up paying more attention to the leaves on the decorations or the color of the shoes than to the FUCKING CARD ITSELF.

This manifests, for example, in another of the major problems that both systems share:

CUPS ≠ WATER WANDS/BATONS ≠ FIRE COINS ≠ EARTH SWORDS ≠ AIR

REPEAT AFTER ME: SUITS ARE NOT ELEMENTS.

Many readers tend to automatically replace the objects in the cards with the later elemental associations. When we see 6 swords in a classic deck, we are not talking about air, MUCH LESS about the meaning that Etteilla or Arthur Waite gave to the card. 6 swords are more swords than you want your enemy to have and since they are swords and not AIR, their function is simply to cause you a lot of damage and pain. Bad omen.

THERE IS NO MYSTERY.

We can add another layer of information, helped by numerology and adjacent cards, but we must never lose sight of the SUPERIOR hierarchy of this obvious and clear message in favor of DETAILS such as the ornaments and the distribution of the swords on the card.

The biggest danger of the RWS system is being overloaded with useless information and ridiculously complicated systems. The biggest danger of the TdM system is not seeing the MESSAGE by focusing too much on absurd details.

The Marseille tarot has MANY flaws as it is a poor copy of Italian decks. Curiously, its situation is almost identical to that of the RWS. By reaching a globalized impression in Europe, the forgivable mistakes of a niche deck spread far and wide. Even so, it preserves the characteristic simplicity of classic decks: You can perfectly distinguish a major arcana from the rest and give it the place it deserves in a reading. The allegories have errors but they maintain a clear and understandable representation for the most part (I also have a post about it).

Many TdM readers do not use inverted cards and free reading on tableaus and strings are the favorite. If we ignore the symbolic paranoia of various authors, focus on the cards in front of us and their allegorical meanings, we have a VERY EASY TO READ tool. It is not as comfortable or friendly as a RWS but it is definitely more free and concrete. Less noise, less chaos. Straight to the point.

I'm not going to lie to you either, anyone who has used a TdM knows that no matter how skilled the reader is, the deck cannot be compared to a sibilla or the RWS when the topic is everyday and mundane divination. It is a dry, direct deck, but little theatrical or gossipy compared to other decks. In the same way, if we ask a sibyl complex and imaginative questions we will have the same result as if we asked the vegetable seller at the market.

Much of the debate comes down to knowing what your need is and your appropriate tool.

In conclusion:

I think the RWS system is unnecessarily complicated, which undermines its great advantage: Being able to read the deck intuitively without having to study it. I think that if it completely abandoned its desire to be a tarot and became an independent deck of illustrations, it would be an exquisite oracle.

The TdM is not the sharpest knife in the arsenal of classic decks, but it is a very easy tarot deck to learn and use if we ignore the symbolic paranoia and limiting meanings of some authors. It is (like all classic decks) a deck with the limitations of tarot, so instead of forcing it to answer all the questions, sometimes it is better to know when to use another oracle.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Hello! Reading your comment about Gr@mmys, I thought of something that makes my head spin.

Was it what happened with J!m!n and F@CE that got us out of the OT7 utopia “seven exact and equal slices of the pie” for each member? I expected to see differences, problems or competitions during this stage but I feel that F@CE was a before and after, at least for me. Now, I could yell at my "me" from the last concert in Bus@n, how naive and overly positive I was being.

I understand the factors that made this reality. I don't know the internal agreements between them and their company. For me Jungk00k's debut only shed more light on topic (he's not the villain of the story, blaming him is just easy way out) Family = seven = equal. Wasn't that the driven narrative? From my place I see how the members go out of their way to demonstrate healthy competition among themselves but the label does not accompany them with their actions/decisions. Actions that make me see company as inexperienced. Did they really have no way to avoid these conflicts? Shouldn't they take care of every detail of career of the artists they represent?

This has nothing to do with the decisions of each member. Some armys force too much -members decide everything- speech and frankly to me it feels like a re-victimization and the removal of responsibility from their representatives. Even if we look at this as a team it seems like someone isn't doing their part. May I disagree? I'm a different person. If everyone says that BH is a great company, I will tell them that it should be even better. The company where my father works has often not fulfilled its duties as an employer, but he will tell you that it's the best job, and I proceed to respect it. Just like that i feel

Whose responsibility is it really that everything has gotten to this point? From company and its silences, from fandom that allowed solo stans to grow, from everyone? Is it just the natural course of things?

There is something in this chapter that gives me the feeling of improvisation. Or was I just too used to everything being calculated and perfect in the B/T/S world?

If you had to give a prognosis for the next chapter, what would it be?

***

“Family = seven = equal. Wasn't that the driven narrative?”

No, actually.

Listen, I hear you and I get you completely. OT7 literally means love the members equally right? And that’s the agenda the company has been pushing and should show right? Well, not exactly. What I’m about to say is going to be very unpopular, but it’s genuinely what I think.

People have a very narrow idea of how many things can look, and when they run up against a reality that looks very different from how they expected it, many people don’t know how to deal with that very well. And oftentimes what happens is that they turn to vilifying whoever they think is responsible for preventing them from getting that imagined outcome. It never once crosses their minds that maybe they had the wrong assumptions to begin with. It’s always the thought of maybe someone is gaslighting them, rather than, you know, maybe they were just wrong. For that context and for that group’s actual goals.

There’s one post I wrote a long time ago that I think made me fairly popular with Jimin biases here, it’s the one where I talk about some of the ways Jimin contributed to BTS that might not seem obvious at first. I prefaced that post by saying many in the fandom underestimate Jimin not because they dislike him or anything, but because they have a narrow idea of what ‘meaningful contribution’ looks like for a group like BTS. All I did in that post was point out things that perhaps were not framed in the right way to show how much Jimin contributes to BTS that’s more than songwriting, producing, or others. It’s the same thinking in recognizing that while SeokJin isn’t the strongest dancer or vocalist, he’s served as the stable emotional support in the group, he serves as the key hinge in maintaining the uniformity in their choreography, and that without him in the group, the members would certainly clash very destructively. It’s not ‘equal contribution’ in the way a lot of people envision, but I think it’s perfect for BTS.

Granted all I’ve said so far is in terms of contributions, not rewards which is what you’re talking about. You’re saying the company should facilitate things so that each member is meant to get equal rewards each time. Well, that would be dandy and possible for the company. Maybe. But it’s also not weird, bad, nor does is spell sabotage for a company to allocate different resources and use different strategies after consulting with the members for their direct input, and to pursue asymmetrical results for BTS at certain times. The understanding is each member prioritized will vary in different years and eras. And I’m personally looking forward to all of it. Since July 2022, all the members have put forward a good first step with their debuts. Jungkook is the member getting a solid push now and I love that it’s him. I’m secretly hoping he tours a bit too, maybe solo or with vmin, and maybe/not go to the military before 2025. Who knows?

A lot of things didn’t work right for all the members' debuts. Jimin’s performance was impacted by far too many though, and many were issues the company simply needs to get their shit together on. Period. BTS makes a shit tonne of money for that company and the least they could do is go the extra mile and then some. I’m convinced HYBE already does this for BTS (recall how HYBE navigated extracting BTS from that Jamboree concert disaster, though public opinion was also on their side), but they could always do more. And I won’t stop anyone from saying that.

But for anyone who thinks what they’ve seen so far is Jungkook / BTS / HYBE betraying their trust or going back on their principles or whatever, I want to say that they’ve done no such thing. This time around your bias wasn’t prioritized the way you wanted. That’s it. Am I being naive and delusional by thinking the guys are literally taking turns for this kind of focus? Possibly. But I also know there’s a Pharrell collab somewhere in the vault. Rina Sawayama too (her Le Sserafim remix is really good. Please listen to it). And that the guys have very grand plans. All of them. They’re focused and driven and will always get what they ultimately want. Every member is like this. They've put too much skin in the game to walk away for less.

Or lol, maybe I'm just being a company stan. I just hope it's clear I'm not dismissing your concern or care for Jimin, Anon, it's that I disagree with your conclusion. But I know I'm in the minority here anyway.

“Whose responsibility is it really that everything has gotten to this point? “

The fandom, mostly. For reasons that are very obvious. Such as most of the fandom claiming they actually like the whole group and trust their bias, but rather kinda see the other members as background characters for their bias. Fandom is like a pressure cooker, so nobody ever really stays 'normal' if they move too far off-center - people who heavily biases a member in an unhealthy way will never remain an ARMY, for example, they’ll eventually break off into fringe parts; people who dislike a member, only grow to further hate the member. Neutral is rare.

If BigHit wanted to make another try for a Grammy this year, Seven would’ve likely been envisioned with all the members as a project to pursue, because a win for any of them is considered a win for the group. Especially considering the competition this year. And given BH already had a formula with the PET, they went with that same mediocre candy floss of a song that’s guaranteed to get the nomination chances, as in the past. Experience has taught the company Korean tracks will likely not be given fair consideration soon. So they went with Seven. Also, after that Billboard hit piece, Jimin’s chances with Like Crazy are close to zilch. If by some miracle he gets recognition, I hope he wins. But yeah, that debacle with Jimin is one in which the fandom (meaning his akgaes, biases, and the wider/whole fandom) bears some blame. But at the same time, Billboard has never been a friend to BTS and they were likely going to change the rules again anyway. And that’s something they can keep doing.

"If you had to give a prognosis for the next chapter, what would it be?"

I have no real idea, tbh. What I want more than anything, is for all seven of them to be able to continue putting out dope, interesting music that they take joy in. Seeing Bangtan have fun has extended my life by several years I'm sure. That's what I want for them in the prognosis. I'm sorry I'm taking your ask about a serious topic and going all sentimental on it Anon, but rather than chart placements that they don't really need to prove, I want BTS to still be comfortable making the music they want to make. More Arson, Dis-ease, All Day, Change Pt 2, Snooze, HUH?!, Amygdala, Like Crazy, SMF Pt 2, Rainy Days, Seven, The Astronaut.

I hope the people who remain in the fandom core are able to last and tough it out while the fandom regroups. Because even though there'll be chaos and the number of solos will likely triple, they won't ever leave. Nobody who comes in contact with BTS ever really moves on from them. They'll say they're taking breaks, calling it quits or whatever, but give them 6 months tops and they're back. I see it happen all the time. And it makes sense tbh. I mean, have you seen Jimin? After knowing someone like him exists, how can you just go back to your regular life pretending he's not real? Like his existence doesn't mandate you looking at him and caring for him and his art. At least, that's how Jimin makes me feel. And the other members to varying degrees.

If we disagree please don't send me follow-up asks on this topic. It likely won't be productive.

[poppy-purpura]

hey hey!! random message ik but I SO get the feeling of like. feeling like I'm not contributing enough to the fandom, but it's not like we even have to! just simply sharing a thought, liking a post, anything or nothing at all, you don't have to do anything grand to be an great member of the community! just simply being here and enjoying yourself is enough, yknow?

you're a huge inspiration to me with your art and ideas, your style makes me FLATLINE it's just so like. aesthetically pleasing to me, I want it as a wallpaper or something

anyways enough of me rambling but you're doing great and you're an amazing and valuable person and member of the community no matter what :] Hope you have a good day!!

You are right, thank you. I just woke up and it was nice to see this message. Thank you. I will try to be kind for myself.

[bts-polls]

hi. i know this blog is just for fun, and i don't want to be a downer, but jk rowling is a terf. she actively does not want trans people to exist. as a trans army, it makes me wildly uncomfortable when people who aren't fans are called 'muggles' or when people Sort the members. again, i know it's all supposed to be fun, but. i don't feel at all safe anymore whenever hp stuff is brought up. i hope you have a good day though <3

Hi anon,

First, before I get into the rest of my response I want to say that I while i can't truly empathize on this specific issue, I do sympathize with not feeling safe due to a marginalization from 'the mainstream'. I do apologize for any part my posts played into this for you and anyone else that may have seen them. I'm going to put the rest of my thoughts on this topic below a cut for anyone that isn't up for a discussion-type post from this blog.

HP was my first real fandom and as someone who was raised in an extremely conservative rural area, I'm unfortunately very familiar with this mindset and viewpoint.

I also had to do a hefty amount of soul-searching when deciding how much of hp-fandom I would continue to engage in. I've never been a merch-focused person (which honestly gave me some heartache getting into kpop..there are legit ppl out there that try to make you feel like a fake fan if you don't spend serious money on this interest... but that's a discussion for another day). Anyway, back to HP, I'm not into merch and I didn't like the movies, (I've still only seen the first two and a handful of clips from some of the others) so I'm personally not contributing anymore to the money channeling in but money isn't the only thing that fuels this massive engine.

Again, I had to have a very frank heart-to-heart with myself to see where I personally feel comfortable continuing to engage. For me, being involved in the Fandom to any degree and even having casual conversations about the themes and meanings was an essential part of learning to be curious enough to see more lifestyles different from the one I was raised in. And my story is not dissimilar from many that I knew in situations similar to mine. So I know that this body of work has actually had cases where it fosters discussions and mindsets for minority groups more than anything else of its time. I really cannot overstate how significant the HP books and fandom were in creating the first space where we were able to even explore the idea of being different from those around us, let alone feeling comfortable or even celebrating it. To us, HP was less about the magic of being able to move items without touching them but more about the magic of finding your own worth when everyone around you said otherwise. This concept takes different forms each generation, for some it's superheroes or musicians; for my generation, it was HP.

Do the unveiled viewpoints of the original creator now undo all of the progress that was triggered by her work? And should we all attempt to bury it as if it never happened? Another point of discussion, especially where I now live in the southern US with many entrenched systems of racial discrimination. (Again, another tangent but we're not here to talk about tearing down ugly statues that don't add any value to the current population).

There's also the literal logistical issue of deciding that I can't engage in anything because I don't agree with the views of the ppl in charge, then there will literally be no viable method to exist. My professional expertise is in systems design, implementation, and maintenance; and let me assure you, the world is legitimately run by people who have despicable beliefs. From entertainment, food manufacturing and distribution, to health care and politics; there are scummy mindsets infecting it all. The biggest lie in our society is that good ppl do good things and bad ppl do bad things. No. People with awful motivations do good things continuously. And the inverse is true as well. There is remarkably little black and white in the world, everything is on a spectrum.

Attempting to cut myself off from ALL of it is not possible, nor do I want to engage with ALL of it. So again, I need to decide where that line is. And it needs to be re-evaluated frequently as both myself and the world around me grows and changes.

But this really comes to my main point of this whole post. I had to do my own personal soul-searching to decide where my own boundary is with this issue. And each person should do so as well. We are all so beautifully different in our life experiences and thoughts and mindset. I would NEVER want to claim my personal boundary on any issue should be upheld for ANYONE else. That's where we must empower ourselves to understand our own sovereignty. I have complete control of how I choose to respond to a push of my boundary but not to dictate that others must place their own boundaries.

This is where we are right now. I recognize that my past actions have induced some harm, intentional or not. Again, I apologize for that. I've shared a few reasons why we have different viewpoints and may continue to create similar polls in the future. So, to move forward, I will be more diligent in tagging any polls so that anyone trying to avoid such content may do so. You will have to decide if that is sufficient for you or if you will need to also disengage here.

Whatever you choose, I do wish you the absolute best and thankyou for bringing this lapse to my attention. Like you said, this is intended to be a fun place where we can vote in meaningless tumblr polls about a group of guys in Korea that make music. I would never want to compromise someone's peace with something so trivial but I am just another stranger on the internet. The one thing I can do is try to give you the tools so that you can make informed decisions about what type of content you may encounter in my space.

I'm not looking to turn this blog into a discussion one, so if anyone wants/needs to chat further, please reach out in DMs or through my main blog @curio-queries . This blog will continue to focus on BTS polls.

BORAHAE 💜

[peachjagiya]

Oh can I submit a controversial opinion?

We all know and hate the nonsense claim about Tae being "just a visual". I know we mainly talk about the company vs Tae. But I also feel like sometimes that was driven by the group/members too...

I know they are brothers and all support each other (and I love their group dynamic). I know that within the group that different members have different bonds and the changes and evolves over time. I also know that there were a lot of times when it was more about actions than words -- how Namjoon really worked to "understand" Tae and now he plays along with him so seemlessly; how Yoongi helped make sure he got to participate and was understood, etc. But, like even those examples rely on the company narrative of him being weird. I'm not saying all the time, obviously. But it just feels like there were times when they reinforced the company narratives and roles -- and we know those still play a role in the fandom today. JK was the perfect, golden maknae. JM was sweet, hardworking dancer. Tae...weird. It could sometimes feel feel like his talents and contributions weren't always valued at the same level as the other maknae line.

*runs away and hides*

Gosh I really really agree. He's very often "othered" and it does actually bother me a lot. I am settled on the idea that it's mainly about narrative and that the day to day interactions aren't so hinged on it? But that public facing separation of Tae as weird is troublesome to me. (Made worse by my suspicion that it's a deliberate effort by the company but that's just a theory.)

With the absolute caveat that I do not diagnose any members with neurodiversity - or neurotypicality! - and don't think it's helpful to do that unless they speak about it themselves, speaking as a neurodiverse person, I think any unique thinking in anyone is often shut down inadvertently. Maybe you think about life a little different, maybe your speech patterns are different, maybe your humour is different, maybe your goals are different. And maybe people side eye that without even realising that it's kind of invalidating.

No pity party from me, I'm actually a very happy person despite bouts of depression, but I was always weird and aside throughout my life. I can get along really well with people who think I'm weird but I get along much better with people who just get me.

Interestingly, I don't know if you'd agree but I feel like JK is also kind of separated by being a little unusual in his thinking or behaviours but it's been less reinforced by company narrative. If anything, the company narrative paints a mainstream acceptable macho image of JK that doesn't reflect him at all.

I think this might be why JK and Wooga are Tae's safe space. I don't doubt for a single moment that BTS are super important to him, they're his brothers, but the people that take you exactly as you are and never unconsciously place you as weird and other are the ones who you want to be around a lot.

I see a lot of myself in Taehyung but it's a bad idea to assume that means he's also ADHD or whatever. It does mean I feel protective of his so-called quirks though. I always say that even if Tae turned out to be straight, his queer coding is important to me as a queer person. Similarly, his (and JKs) neurodivergent coding, regardless of whether he is diagnosed or identifies that way, is important to me as a ND person. And to see him being referred to as an alien or as weird... I dunno. It's not comfy even if I know it's not meant to hurt.

Thanks anon. What a cool conversation to get into. ❤

[crownleys]

Have you noticed any trends/patterns in what makes you 'fannish' about something? (Particular mediums, character dynamics, aesthetics etc.) Also, is there anything you love but don't feel the impulse to engage in fandom with?

This was a really interesting question, and I had to sit and think about it for a while before feeling like I had some good conclusions to share with you, Anon! I think in general there's three things that have to be in the mix that get me feeling 'fannish'/involved in the fandom for something: 1) Regularly engaging with the source material 2) A good community 3) Space to play

I'll put the rest under a cut because I'm sure I'm about to ramble for a while

So, with regards to point one, it feels relevant to mention that I don't particular feel like I've been a member of too many fandoms. I'd say two, exactly -- Zombies, Run! and The Wayhaven Chronicles. I've dabbled with things like The Locked Tomb Series and Dragon Age of course, but I never necessarily felt like part of the fandom, just because it was so large and multifacted, and I only briefly engaged with it as someone who contributed to those respective fandoms. But with ZR and TWC, they're both things that have stuck around longer, mostly because I've continued to play them for a very long time. I got started with ZR about 10 years ago. When I was my most active with it was when I was going out literally every day and listening to missions, which helped keep the story and characters really fresh in my mind. It also helped me constantly think up new themes and ideas I really wanted to explore within the setting and with the characters. Similar with Wayhaven -- I played through all the books when Book 3 came out in April and I've more or less had a play-through going since then. My actual play-throughs have fallen a little on the wayside just because of life things but I'm still thinking about it & engaging with the source material a lot. So I guess my point is, to truly feel 'fannish' about something I need to be a little bit obsessed, lol!

As for my second point, I've truly felt my most 'fannish'/part of the fandom when I find a good community to interact with. One of my favorite parts of being a fan is actually getting to talk about the material in question -- play with it, theorize, etc. The Zombies, Run! Fandom when I joined was amazing for that, and there continued being a really good group constantly discussing meta on their Rofflenet website the entire time I was a player. There was even a weekly zoom book club to discuss the current releasing missions! It was awesome! And with Wayhaven I feel like I've found a really nice circle of mutuals to sit and talk about the books with (and also obviously, my dearest Delucadarling, who I constantly talk about it with). Which brings me to my last point, is I really like having a lot of space to 'play' and feel fannish. With ZR, it has a huge sprawling universe of a zombie apocalypse, and only a very small portion is shown to the players via the audio. It leaves a lot of room to imagine what happens around the missions. And with Wayhaven, since only a portion of the story is out, it leaves a lot of room to imagine with happens next to all the characters. That is the sort of thing I really find motivating! And there's for sure plenty of things I love that I don't really engage with the fandom for, or engage pretty lightly. For example, I've really been loving Star Trek: Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks, but I haven't really done more than chat with a few friends about it. Similarly for a lot of the books I read -- I'll talk about them with a friend or two but not really seek out a lot of online content for them. I also watch a lot of cooking competitions, lol, so that's different for me to. If you've stuck with me for this long thank you! I really appreciated the question and I hope you have a great day <3

[blackhairedjjun]

Hey I just saw your post about fanfiction! And I wanted to let you know that guilt tripping people for writing literal fanFICTION is just a way for some people to feel morally superior and like they are the better, more respectful fans that are responsible for keeping the idols safe or whatever narrative they make up in their minds. Fanfiction has been around for forever and serves multiple purposes. Sometimes you just love the original universe of a work of fiction or a specific character and because it brought you so much delight you want to continue picturing more and more scenarios. Sometimes, the fandoms are bored with no new content and get together to create a fun community that contributes more content within it to share and enjoy. In most fandom spaces, fanfiction is seen as an amazing thing because you take time out of your day to make content for free for other people. Now, fanfictions about real life humans have always required a bit more tact, though, but I've been on this website for like 10 years and have seen it all. Everytime a piece of media got popular, soon the actors would have fanfiction coming out about them as well, and it is kind of generally understood that it is from fans to fans and not created as a way of harrassing the real life people. In fact, most people would be horrified to find out one of their favorite people read their stuff. The reality of the situation is that these famous people are so far away from us in a completely different reality, allowing us only glimpses of their celebrity personas, that the human psyche can almost register them as "concepts" as well, and just take what we like about them and project them onto fictional scenarios like a character. The thing is, nowadays we publish and share them with each other so that we can have fun as a community, but at the end of the day, these are fantasies. Not genuine wishes, not delusions, but fiction just for some enjoyment. We know it's fake so it feels no different or realer than a romance book, but it's easier because we already all know the basics of the person, and you don't need any worldbuilding, introduction, explanation etc you can just jump into a scenario and share with others so easily. It's just fucking fun 😭 People act like it is crazy to write it and share it, but the reality they do NOT want to admit is... they also have so many fantasies about the guys. They do. And everyone knows it. And the entire industry knows it too, hell the entire industry DEPENDS on it. The whole "no dating idea", the fanservice, everything outside just the basic singer activities is done in order to create a perfectly tailored image that you can imagine as your boyfriend. I'm not saying you can't genuinely like groups just for their music, of course, but these people who have entire fan pages dedicated to them and get into beef with other fans to act all high and mighty and like "the right kind" of fan, MOST DEFINITELY have a crazy parasocial relationship with the members. They have fantasies, even if it's just meeting them irl and having a perfectly normal and cute and wholesome interaction, they push their expectations and wishes onto their image too. They just aren't open and earnest enough about it to embrace that as part of our human tendencies and join in the community. Sad that they miss out on the fun of pretending to run a flower shop and shit just out of pretentiousness.

hi anon!! basically YES you made a lot of good points 👏 most fans don't push their fics onto the idols and we try to keep the space for ourselves (from fans to fans, as you yourself said). and many of us do understand that it is fiction, that we're creating scenarios to play around in with zero expectations that it will happen irl.

i do understand that not everyone wants to be open about their fantasies or express it outwardly through fiction, and that's okay! they're not necessarily "missing out" on anything if they don't want to participate. but i wish they wouldn't be so quick to judge and immediately label anyone as creepy or crazy because they write or read fic. if they can be sane about their parasocial relationships and understand that they aren't reality, then so can we.

[kiatheinsomniac]

Oh my gosh I found a blog that writes for Connor!!! YAY!!! Could I please request Connor x fem reader ? Reader is a new member to the homestead and maybe has a hard time fitting in / finding out what they are useful for and Connor being the saint he is finds a way to help her prove her worth? If this doesn’t inspire you — I’ll take anything with Connor there’s just so little out there for him! Please and thank you

──── 𝐇𝐎𝐌𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐀𝐃 𝐒𝐊𝐈𝐋𝐋𝐒𝐄𝐓𝐒 ˊˎ -

☾ ⋆ﾟ 𝐌𝐀𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐑𝐋𝐈𝐒𝐓 / 𝐑𝐔𝐋𝐄𝐒

𝐍𝐎𝐓𝐄𝐒: OMG am I really in a time where people don't write for Connor anymore?? I can remember when he was like one of the big 3 for AC fics. Damn, that really makes me realise how long I've been in this fandom for lol

𝐏𝐀𝐈𝐑𝐈𝐍��: Connor Kenway | Ratonhnhaké:ton x Reader

𝐖𝐎𝐑𝐃 𝐂𝐎𝐔𝐍𝐓: 0.6k

𝐖𝐀𝐑𝐍𝐈𝐍𝐆𝐒: none

You dropped the bow to the ground with a loud huff as the deer scampered away, spooked off by your poorly-aimed arrow. It would seem you weren’t any good at hunting, either. 

Connor, the sweetheart that he is, had been spending the whole day trying to help you find your place on the homestead. You had moved here recently and were struggling to find something you were good at. You had cooked some dishes for all the residents but you were tired of sitting around and feeling useless, you wanted to find some way in which you could really contribute. So far you had tried foraging (you almost poisoned yourself), looking after the animals (a goat had rammed into your leg and you were fortunate it was only a small one) and hunting (as mentioned, you had missed and spooked the deer away). 

And yet, Connor had been so patient with you and you couldn’t thank him enough for it. He bent down to collect your bow for you and a comforting hand patted your back. “We’ll try something new.” He spoke in that soothing voice of his. With your bottom lip jutted out, you hesitated before nodding your head, forcing back the tears of frustration in your eyes. “Come one.” His hand slid further down your back, not inappropriately so, and he guided you back towards Davenport Manor. The two of you sat on the porch, sharing herbal tea and looking out across the garden. 

“It’s a state…” You commented with a frown. A storm had torn through the area recently and the garden seemed to have suffered the effects of it. 

“We could fix it up.” Connor suggested and you hummed in thought as you surveyed the damage. 

“Sure.” You replied with a smile. He was glad to still see that determination in your eyes, it was so very endearing and it made him glad to see you not give up. 

Once the tea was finished, the two of you got to work clearing fallen branches, sweeping away leaves and beginning to weed the flower pots and beds that were scattered around the place. You built up some support for the taller plants to help prevent them from snapping in the wind and got to planting certain flowers as well. You had moved on to the small vegetable patch to find that many potatoes and carrots were ready which gave you the idea to check the larder. Surely enough, there were all the ingredients necessary to make a stew so, while Connor tended to the horses, you were busy in the kitchen making enough for everyone in Davenport Manor and then some more to bring to the others living on the homestead after you had eaten. 

It felt nice to be sitting around a table with Connor and Achillies complimenting you on your cooking. You enjoyed cooking for other people and a part of you came to realise that you didn’t need to find other things to go beyond and prove yourself, that there were plenty around who were more than thrilled to simply have a home-made meal brought to them. The day finished with satisfaction and a wild berry tart shared with Connor on the upper balcony as the sun went down, the two of you chatting and laughing together as it grew dark. Soon enough, you were leaning your head on his shoulder as the two of you laid down to look at the stars. 

“Thank you-” You began “-for today, I mean. You’ve been so patient and helpful and it really means a lot to me.” He tilted his head just enough to look down at you and his smile softened even more at seeing you looking up at him in turn. 

“There’s no need to thank me.” His voice was quiet. 

“And yet I’m still grateful that you’re here…” And you rested your head against his shoulder once more, feeling his arm curl around you as the two of you gazed up at the stars, lost in thoughts of each other. 

☾ ⋆ﾟlike my work? why not: 

∘ buy me a coffee? ∘ join my taglist ∘ consider following/reblogging

🏷️@gojohater101 @daddyadler @ayameiris4 @veryfancydoilies @elfaoulyyy @fischchenlein @writing-noah

[the-creative-lounge-blog]

The Creative Lounge v2.0

While we continue to prepare the community for a full launch, I'll post a little more about what's different in this version.

The Creative Lounge is a Discord community of creators and lovers of different genres, crafts, and talents that, together, foster a positive creative environment.

A good portion of this community is dedicated to content creators who work with different mediums. That's by design. We inspire one another and often collaborate. I hope The Lounge makes it easier to do both!

There's also room in here to play. I'm arranging the ability to stream art and video games in here, as well as host virtual tabletop games (these adventures are fantastic fodder for art, animation, stories, and audio works)!

Art and storytelling have been part of the human experience since our beginnings. They withstand disease, war, natural and unnatural catastrophes, and most impressively, time. Be proud of what you contribute.

There have been some changes to the community rules (beneath the cut). Please review them while you wait for The Creative Lounge to launch!

Rule #1: Be Aware. This is a shared space. You must be at least 18 years old to join this server. Individuals from all places and all walks of life congregate here. The sharing of personal information (name, location, etc.) is discouraged. Don't share personal images of anyone under the age of 18.

Rule #2: Be Respectful. Any disputes between members ought to be resolved privately. Disruptive behavior is not tolerated! No racism, sexism, hate speech, trolling, abuse, spam, picking fights, harassment, etc. Direct and indirect threats towards any other person are strictly prohibited and will incur an instant ban. Avoid discussing sensitive topics (examples: religion, politics). Try to keep the conversation relevant to the channel you are in. This is a multi-fandom, multi-shipping community. Hate directed at fandoms, characters, or ships is not allowed. While age gap ships are welcome, teacher/student ships are not (if characters are portrayed as teacher and student in canon material, do not share fanworks of those ships here). Don't steal content, or ideas. Do not repost or share anything found here without the permission of that content's creator. When sharing content by others, they must be credited in your post. When sharing links to your content, ensure that it is thoroughly tagged in your post. Any NSFW content should be shared in the gated channels. No underage (less than 18 years old) or incestuous NSFW content (in ANY form, regardless of how brief it may be) is allowed in this server. Use tags and spoilers (if applicable) for “trigger warning” kind of content. Examples of warning tags: -Graphic depictions of violence -Character death -Rape/non-con/dub-con (A/B/O works are considered dub-con) Other things such as phobias, body horror, blood, etc, should also be tagged. If you would tag it on AO3 or a social media post, tag it here. If unsure, ask a mod for help!

Rule #3: Be Creative. This space was made so that content creators may meet and interact with each other and with fans of transformative works. It is encouraged (but not mandatory) to participate in Lounge events and challenges. Use this space to discuss your content and ideas, share tips, ask questions, etc.

Rule #4: Be Kind. This is meant to be a community. Remember to encourage and support one another. Visible support such as reblogging/retweeting, commenting, giving kudos, etc., ought to be considered part of being a Lounger. Do not simply use this server (or myself) as your marketing platform. Self-promotion is not only encouraged, but expected. However, when you promote your work, stick around to throw some support and encouragement at others.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Hi BPP, How will I know when the implosion begins? Is there an inverted yield curve for fandoms? Point form answers are are acceptable! Happy D-DAY!! 💜💜

Thank you for all the work you’ve put into this blog. It’s been a super interesting and enjoyable part of SM for me!

***

Hi @babyyourelemonade

An inverted yield curve for fandoms! Now that's a brilliant idea. I'd personally pay to contribute to funds for research on that topic honestly. And it could have implications outside of fandom too, such as for whole countries since many fandoms now work like splintered political communities more than anything else. I imagine it would be an upgrade to the theory on what caused the fall of Rome, or something like that.

I think I'm alone (mostly) in my opinions on the fandom imploding, and I don't want to talk much about it because I genuinely hope I'm very wrong, and because I don't have a lot of evidence to back up why I feel this way, so there's little point in going on about it.

But you've asked so I'll be brief:

Personally, I think the implosion has already started lol. The moment the fandom decided that taekookers were someone else's problem and should only be ignored, the seeds for implosion were already set. In my opinion. Think about Larries and the 1D fandom. Shipping is one thing but as I've said before, there are theories unique to taekook shipping that are inherently subversive to the very idea of BTS, and all it takes is someone crazy enough to do real damage. But that risk was somewhat contained so long as BTS was active and things were predictable. After the 2022 Festa Dinner and the fandom now experiencing Chapter 2 where so much is now unpredictable, where indulging in competition between the members is more permissible, the control on that risk has reduced somewhat. Solo stans, akgaes, and toxic shippers are like an immuno-virus that weakens from within because they're just as passionate and involved as regular fans, they're just twisted enough to prioritize their desires over everyone else, including the members they claim to stan.

The second problem is ARMYs. Lol. Specifically the ARMYs who have tied BTS's worth to the records and titles they hold, because those are the people most likely to do stupid shit when they feel threats to those records are imminent. At some point in 2021, I noticed when people would discuss what BTS means to them and to the industry, they'd just rattle off only records and accomplishments as if that was it. Before then, at least in my experience, people would talk about the lyrical impact of BTS's songs, they'd talk about the stylistic choices made in this or that album that relative to the other albums out at the time, and so on. There's nothing wrong with gloating about BTS's records because frankly that's the only thing that shuts up some antis. But it becomes a problem I think, when those records become the primary reason you think BTS have the status and caliber they have, and you’ve tied it to a central part of your identity.

Because records will always be broken.

And in Chapter 2 that is nearly guaranteed to happen. So the ARMYs who make that both their identity, and BTS's, will expose BTS to even more ridicule than they would've faced otherwise and will be disproportionately affected. If another group gets a Grammys nomination this year for example, or *gasp* actually wins the award next year, lol just pack it all up and give it to God. It will be bloody in these purple streets. Because too many ARMYs have tied BTS's worth to their achievements and only heightened the risk for implosion before 2026.

I've got a few more reasons but I've already written enough, and like I said I don't have much evidence for what I'm thinking anyway. But I suggest anyone who calls themselves a fan of BTS, reflect sometimes on why they're a fan, why they spend time in fandom spaces, and think about how to build real, honest community with people here while trying not to take too much personally.

[lauguste-week]

Lauguste Week 2022

This is the official tumblr for Lauguste Week 2022, a Captive Prince fandom event showcasing fanart and fanfiction for the Auguste/Laurent ship! Submissions will post in early February 2022. 

The event dates and details for participation can all be found below! Your mods for this event will be @benevaletete (Sabo) and @ancelegance (Kass), and we are both happy to answer any questions that come up for you. Thank you! 

PROMPTS & DATES

Feb 11 - Protector

Feb 12 - Quicksilver & Gold

Feb 13 - Burden of the Crown / Family Legacy

Feb 14 - Us & the World

Feb 15 - Physicality, Intellectuality, Devotion

Feb 16 - Faith / Spirituality

Feb 17 - “put on my brother’s ill-fitting clothes”

These prompts are all open to interpretation, fluffy, angsty, tragic, smutty, wherever your imagination takes you! Canonverse or modern AUs, anything in between, there are no limitations.

EVENT DETAILS & RULES

This event will feature and showcase fan works (art and fanfiction) for the Auguste/Laurent ship. We will be accepting romantic, NSFW, and platonic fan works that highlight this pairing as the focus.

If you are posting for one of the specific prompts created for Lauguste Week 2022, please try to post your work on the date assigned to the prompt so we can watch everyone’s different interpretations roll in together!

Make sure to mention @lauguste-week in your submission post so we know it’s meant for this event.

There are no content rules or limitations, other than that Auguste and Laurent should be the main characters and the focus of your fan work. Every artist has their own vision, preferences, and boundaries and we are not here to question or police that. Please do your best to tag appropriately, that’s all we ask!

We ask that all participants please use the tag #lauguste when posting your submission if your fan work contains Auguste/Laurent as a romantic or sexual ship. We all have the right to create the content we want to work with in creative spaces, but some of our fellow fandom members may be uncomfortable with certain themes and we want to make sure that they can easily block what they don't choose to consume.

We are happy to accept anonymous submissions from anyone who would prefer to participate without sharing their fandom name. Our tumblr submissions are open, so if you would like to submit anonymously please log out of your tumblr and use Anonymous (or a secret nickname) as your name and a fake email address when you submit, and we will post your contribution directly to this blog.

Please feel free to create fanworks for as many or as few of the prompts as speak to you! On the date of the prompt go ahead and post your work to your own blog (or submit it to us anonymously, as described above) and @lauguste-week in your post. We will reblog the post to showcase it here along with the rest of the submissions!

If you don't like any of the prompts but you want to create some free-form Lauguste work and participate, that's also totally welcome! Any post that tags @lauguste-week and follows the rules of the event will be reblogged and showcased here. We encourage content, content, content. :)

Thank you to everyone who has supported this idea, and thank you in advance to all participants! We can't wait to open the new year with new content for these golden princes.

[vazaez]

Little rant bcs i feel like we should just start gatekeeping the show LMFAOO

The Audacity you must have to go to someone's post about a certain fandom just to shit over their content claiming they "ruined the show" even tho they've liked it since the first episode came out and are actually making an effort into creating fun content. Even tho u don't make a single effort into contribute to the fandom nor u are part of it ✋💀

It's kinda annoying how everyone goes "OMG u guys were my Childhood 😭❤️😭❤️❤️😭" when the kratt bros or the wild kratts account posts anything on tiktok but when ppl wanna give the show more recognition by making content or fanart, you get acused of being a poser by the "oG fAnS" that don't EVER bother about it's existence until someone big mentions the show like??? If u like the show ur happy to see more people are getting interested in it, don't u? But what happens istead? You get some dumb ass with "oh You know this band? Tell me the names of all the members, all the songs and the baterist's dog's name or ur a POSER" vibes when you're just trying to have fun and actually create fan content of something everyone else just remembers like one time in their lifes, they post the same idea of "like if this was ur Childhood" or "who remembers this show??1!2!2!" To never talk about it again. Those videos being so praised while original content only gets recognition from other ppl who are actually in the fandom makes me think that all of them only remember they liked it when it makes them feel superior from the others, kinda like when some tmnt fans from older versions feel like they're better than Rottmnt fans because Rottmnt is a "new version"(Even tho 2012 is also a reboot but that one is like the bible to these bitches), and, aparently, being a new show makes liking it an insult to the grown ass adults who claim to have liked them since the first comics and enjoy to bully minors that just wanna have fun with a show or franchise they enjoy🚶

Anyways i think i'll stick to just art bcs i got called a social reject for liking a fictional character from a kids show, someone told me i sexualized an audio that literally said "I LIKE TO RIDE THE SAUSAGE" (it was a joke omfg how are you gonna listen to that and take it 100%, seriously?? ✋😭) and even a fake queer person bcs i have my pronouns on my bio and a bi flag in my tiktok pfp and even told me to pRovE tO tHeM that i'm bi or else i'm a fake one and that i'm part of the lgbtq+ comunity just bcs it's"""trendy""" (because it seems like wanting people to call you the correct pronouns regardless of being under the trans umbrella or or not and using ur pride flag in ur pfp is a HUGE PROOF THAT YOU'RE FAKING YOUR WHOLE ORIENTATION AND IDENTITY JUST TO BE TRENDY OFC) all that when the only thing i did was posting a joke video about liking Chris 💀💀💀

[bambi-kinos]

Your Discord server sounds really interesting. Do you think the small numbers involved turn it into a bit of an echo chamber however? For me, the appeal of a site like HD is that you get a lot of different opinions or nuggets of information from a diverse group of people and that you learn more as a result. On the other hand, it is great that you are offering a forum for discussion. There don’t seem to be many others out there.

It absolutely runs the risk of there being an echo chamber. Back when there was only four of us, we frequently talked about "the server consensus" because we ended up falling in with one another's ideas about some major points regarding John and Paul. There are more people now so we are getting more perspectives particularly on George which is really nice. But yeah, that's something that preys on my mind sometimes and it's the main reason why I opened membership briefly.

I think part of the struggle with curating discussion is that a lot of people can struggle to come up with anything to say, that's probably the biggest roadblock to more discussion re: the Beatles in any forum. Many fans don't know what to say or don't have anything to contribute, so the people who do have opinions end up dominating the discussion because there's a vacuum. It's somewhat better in the Discord server because it's semi-private and it's safer to have controversial opinions because there's no tumblrina culture to result in hateanons which can be difficult to deal with.

What's proved the most difficult so far has been getting people with contrary opinions that also aren't assholes who cause dysfunction. Back in...February or March (I'd have to check the timestamps) I had to ban a sexpest who posted CSA material regarding one of the Beatles -- something I never thought I'd have to deal with. (Went through the whole Discord report thing and all but nothing ever came of it.) This person was a really interesting source of discussion but then they had to be banned because holy shit??? Then I had to ban another person for rulebreaking...etc, and all the other stuff I've talked about here. It's why I'm super reactive to rulebreaking because I've already had people try to take advantage of me so they can post illegal material and [laughs nervously] what the fuck!!! Fuck that!!!

All that stuff though makes me even more protective of the space as a place where people can discuss topics. My goal is to make a place where we break away from the tumblr consensus because frankly I think a lot of the meta discussion about the Beatles is kind of crap. That might mean we replace it with another consensus but at least it'll be different.

It's been a weird experience because I've never had trouble like this in MGS, Persona, or Final Fantasy XIV fandoms, there are troublemakers there but as fandoms they tend towards a lot more harmony. That's not even all of the weird shit I've encountered since landing here. It's been less than a year and I have stories. That's weird considering I'm coming out of anime fandom which is supposed to be loli and shotacon heaven but the fact is that anime fandoms self police a lot more heavily than Beatles fandom does.

I've joined other Beatles discord servers and their biggest problem is lack of engagement from the owners which means the members don't have anything to work with. I try to post something at least once a day to get the attention of the server. Sometimes it takes and sometimes it doesn't, but the point is that if I'm consistently present than the members become more comfortable and will chat more. @gnocchichi and @skylikeaflame have been invaluable in that area too.

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

The idea that we should consider the morality of the artist in all aspects (no matter how big or small the supposed transgression) has been growing aggressively, and it worries me.

I agree with you that we should consider how we contribute to financial gain if the issue warrants it. For example, I don’t pay for any further work from JK Rowling because I think her transphobic comments are dangerous. That said, I do watch the movies and read the books I already own.

The idea that you have to wholesale toss out anything created by someone you (or often other people pressuring you) deem morally wrong has a few troubling implications. Art is made by people, and people will always be flawed. So If that logic is followed to its most extreme conclusion, no art should be engaged with at all. There is no higher perfect being creating these things, and we all have our issues and blind spots.

I also dislike that people try to say art made by a disgraced artist is suddenly bad. Morality does not dictate artistic ability. I find this to be an unrealistic simplification tactic. It’s harder to parse through conflicted feelings when the work itself is still good and artistically valuable, but the artist has done horrible things.

This pressure to not be taken a certain way or accused of being morally wrong affects people who are currently creating, and I think it’s leading to blander, more sanitized art. Which is sad.

Anon 2

''how do you think army would react if any of the boys ever got caught up in a scandal like burning sun? (not to imply I think that's the case, more of a thought exercise) I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they can't believe big bang stans are still supporting senguri and that morals are more important than kpop but i would be willing to put money down that if anything similar ever came out about bts the fandom would, at least in part, stand behind them.''

Anon 3

''We really don't know the members and sometimes iam afraid of supporting them''

So, I added all these messages together because all of them touch on this main subject, which is the conflicting relationship and views we could have towards the artists we like. I definitely agree entirely with what the first anon said because art does have the ability to stand on its own and we shouldn't toss it aside, especially if it speaks to us on a personal level and also if there is artistic value to it. I have no respect for JK Rowling as well because of her transphobic comments, but the movies and the books have been part of my childhood and I still enjoy them. And when it comes to the movies, as I said in the previous ask that I answered, too many people have contributed to it, beginning with the actors, so those works do not belong only to Rowling.

But when it comes to K-Pop and idols, we have to shift the conversation a bit and we can focus on BTS here, so I can answer the other 2 anons as well. Trying to think of it in terms of separation is a bit harder in this case because many reasons why these people are liked is due to the way they expose themselves to their fans. I'm not saying we as outsiders really know them because we don't, but there is an emphasis on the public persona which comes across as very approachable. I hope I'm not misinterpreted here because I'm in no way saying they are fake, let's not reduce the entire issue to that. What I mean is that we all present ourselves in a certain way depending on situations and them as public figures even more. We don't get details about personal lives and they don't share a lot of things, but parts of their personalities are out there and that's why people like them so much. It's not just about artistry and their music. And because of that, we get tangled in this parasocial relationship which also brings out the fear that the 3rd anon has. What if something bad comes to the surface at some point and as a fan I spent so much time liking and supporting this person? Was I a fool all this time? We would feel a sense of betrayal. These are normal feelings, especially when one invests their time in this. We don't really know them and this is ok. You got to go with your instinct and make judgments based on what you are able to see. If it turns out that one of them or more are not the kind of people whom you would align morally and that's your criteria, then this is a matter of acceptance from your part and a sign to move on and stop supporting them and a sign of someone being disingenuous and that's on them. Also, we should remember that people change and evolve throughout their lives, influenced by a number of reasons that stay in the personal lane and we are not privy to that part.

And to address the possible reaction to a similar scandal like The Burning Sun, I think there will be various reactions. Fans who will defend the person from the beginning, without waiting for more information, fans who will try to understand the situation before reaching a conclusion. Then you also have those who will still support the person no matter what and those who will not. This is all a question of morals here and everyone has their own compass. You can stop supporting and liking a guy if he did something bad and still like his voice or some of his songs. But it will be harder to separate his work as an artist from him as an individual because of the reasons I stated above.