#concrit is as welcome as always but if you think its bad

[gerec]

have you've noticed an increase in hate comments on ao3 fics? (not the A/I bot stuff, I know ao3 sorted that out, i'm talking actual people leaving hate comments, and sometimes it's not even guest accounts). i've noticed an increase in the last few months in the x men fandom and others. more and more people commenting bad faith, outright rude comments. i mentioned it to winter_hiems and she said she'd noticed it too - worked an age on her latest and the first comment she got was a hate message. kind of wondering if it's starting to be a widespread thing because our fandoms only partially overlap

Hi Anon,

I haven't been posting very much lately so I haven't noticed an uptick in negative comments - in my experience, it sort of comes and goes over time i.e. you get a bunch all in a short period and then it all disappears again for a long time. My guess is that with the increased interest in X-Men from X-Men 97 we're getting a big influx of new or returning fans, and a small portion of them haven't read the memo on fandom etiquette. It doesn't explain what's happening with other fandoms though so I really couldn't guess :(

Personally, I don't have the energy or inclination to deal with bullshit anymore so I just delete anything that pisses me off and permanently block 'em on ao3. Seriously it never ceases to amaze me, the amount of entitlement and sheer dickishness that exists out there over something we do for love, in our free time.

So here we are again, for those of you who are genuinely new and don't know what's acceptable, and aren't just assholes:

Unless the author says 'I welcome concrit', keep your concrit to yourself. Nobody asked you and nobody wants to know how you would write this thing. Just go write it yourself if you think you can do better.

If you have nothing nice to say, back out of the fic. It costs you nothing to shut the hell up.

Authors do NOT prefer getting shitty comments to getting no comments at all. Authors are sharing their love and joy with the world and genuinely want to hear how its making their readers happy - full stop. They did not do hours of unnecessary research, agonize over plot points, edit the damn thing 20x and stay up nights coming up with ideas just so you could tell them how their fic is wrong/bad/stupid/upsets you/is what's wrong with society today etc. The problem is you. It's always you. Shut up.

Rant over!

[ahiddenpath]

Why do you insist on coddling fanfiction writers? Shouldn't we welcome constructive criticism so that we may improve? As a writer, I can't think of anything worse than resting my laurels on mediocre writing and developing hubris because everyone was too afraid to tell me how bad my fic really was.

I'm assuming this ask was prompted by the two posts I reblogged about fanfiction recently.

The first states that fanfic writers are working on their own projects. A reviewer telling them to write what they want to see isn't concrit. Unless the writer indicated that they aren't sure where to take the story and are looking for input, then telling a writer what to put in their fic is an attempt to have someone make content for you for free. If a reader wants specific content, they must write it, commission it, or seek out someone who is looking for prompts.

The second states that if you don't like a fic, then you shouldn't read it. The implication is that you should leave rather than leave a nasty review, but personally, I mostly take it as, "hey babe, your free time is precious, don't spend it on stuff you don't like." Again, this isn't about concrit. It's a warning against wasting your own time as a reader. Maybe the internet has always been this way, but there seem to be folks who engage in fandom by... Seeking out the exact opposite of what they like and then raging about it. In my opinion, this hurts everyone. Again, nothing here relates to concrit.

I'd say most writers like concrit, but concrit implies that the reader understood the work, possesses analytical skill, and cares about it enough to want to help the writer improve. If a reader cared about the fic, they wouldn't tell the writer to redo the work with their own preferences (ie, the reader's fave ships, tropes, whatever) (see the first above). At that point, what the reader wants is a different fic (see the second above), not to help this writer make their fic stronger. And if a reader dislikes the fic, its subject matter, whatever, then why would they waste their time giving concrit? They're just having a bad time and will probably not be able to provide concrit in good faith (see the second above).

If you're seeking concrit of your ask, and please do forgive me if you aren't, I'd gently suggest reading the original posts I reblogged more carefully. They make no mention of concrit. Also, they are not about coddling anyone, or even being kind. They're about readers using their most valuable resource- their time- more wisely, and also valuing the time of writers.

If you want concrit of your work, please indicate such in your fic, and also join a writing group. Most folks online don't have the free time or training to provide meaningful concrit, which will center on actual writing issues (pacing, management of exposition, cohesiveness of the narrative, etc). If someone is listing the ships and tropes they like and want to see in your fic in a review, that's not concrit. If someone is insulting your fic, that's not concrit. I'm sorry if you have accepted these things as concrit in the past. You deserve better- but also, you likely aren't going to find it for free, unless you have the incredible fortune of attracting a reader who loves your fic, has enough free time to engage deeply, and has some training in reviewing writing.

Meaningful concrit is a give and take thing. Expecting it for free is... A bit of an ask (although it does happen! I see you, review angels). So join a writing group that provides it, and give back in turn. Please don't hoist that expectation onto internet strangers. This kind of work is how you avoid resting on your laurels.

Oh, also, if you're looking for people to "tell you how bad your fic really was," there's... Probably a subreddit for that, assuming it hasn't imploded over the last few days. But again, "this fic is bad," is not concrit. That's... just an insult. If you want that, hey, go for it! But oh my goodness, please don't expect other people to want it in general. They don't. They really, really don't.

Best of luck to you on your writing journey.

[zelgadis55]

Chapters: 35/35 Fandom: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TV 2003), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TV 2012), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Characters: Michelangelo (TMNT), Leonardo (TMNT), Donatello (TMNT), Raph, Casey Jones, April O'Neil, Splinter (TMNT), Hun (TMNT), Klunk (TMNT) Additional Tags: Literature, fan fiction, Drama, Dimensional Crossover, 2k12 Mikey in the 2k3 universe, Family Feels, 2k3 side of AOtGO, AOtGO, slow acceptance, Bad Dreams, Survivor Guilt, Crossover, 2k3/2k12 crossover Series: Part 1 of AOtGO Summary:

 Lost and alone in another reality, one turtle must try to find his way home. All while trying to forge a place amongst a family who lost one of their own under horrible circumstances and seemingly resents his very presence. No OC's. Set: 2k3 up until 'Good Genes'. 2k12 up until 'The Good, the Bad and Casey Jones'. 

Comments, thoughts and concrit is always welcome.

                               And One to Grow On                                               Ch 34                                            epilogue

“You've been through this,” Donnie eventually turned to Michelangelo anxiously. “Is there anything I can do to help him or make him feel more comfortable?”

Blanching at the reminder, Mikey shook his head sadly as he watched Leo from a distance. “Not really, dude,” he answered sombrely. “Nothing got through to me until it started wearing off. I mean, some distant part of me noticed I was hurt or cold or thirsty, even that my legs were killing me from just standing so still but it was like it just didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was doing what I was told, whether it was attacking you guys or standing in one spot until I was told otherwise,” he explained quietly, repeatedly pulling lightly at the elastic of his left elbow pad before releasing it to snap back against his inner elbow in a visible display of just how upset he really was about all this. "The worst part was when I started getting my mind back but my body wouldn't obey me yet.”

“I see...” Donnie muttered despondently. “In that case, perhaps it would be better if I sedate Leo after all.”

“No, don't,” Michelangelo insisted again, his demeanour seemingly distant. Yet Donnie could see his attention fixated on Leo.

“Why not?” Donnie asked gently. “Everything you just said makes me think it would be kinder to help Leo sleep through this and we know the sedative won't have any ill effects when mixed with that chemical in his system.”

Mikey shook his head and looked up at Donnie. “I dunno, dude. I just...” His voice petered out and he moved towards Leo. Upon reaching home, they'd removed Leo's mask to be able to see his eyes and Michelangelo was focused intently on whatever he could see in their dull, emotionless depths. Despite Donnie's small protest, he stepped closer. Leonardo turned his head, watching Michelangelo the way a cat watches its prey but he didn't otherwise make a move. Mikey smiled warmly down at him and reached out a hand to rest on Leo's comfortingly.

“Mikey!” Raph choked in disbelief. “Get away from him! He's dangerous!”

“It's okay,” Mikey said softly, more to Leo than to Raph or even Donnie. “Everything's gonna be okay,” he promised.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/3956152/chapters/83752957   or   https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10696178/35/And-One-to-Grow-On

[redshoesnblueskies]

from my 2020 Faves & Saves update page:  Fanfic culture, AO3 origins going right back to strikethrough, fandom history.....

SO. MANY. LINKS.

so many goodies under the cut!

these are all links to my tumblr - i did not write very many of them, but i know my links will remain the same and not be lost :)

The master post of upholding and celebrating fanfic, by @inkandcayenne :

‘I think fanfiction is literature and literature, for the most part, is fanfiction, and that anyone that dismisses it simply on the grounds that it’s derivative knows fuck-all about literature and needs to get the hell off my lawn.’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/621654927974055936/inkandcayenne-tywinning-asked-you-2012-08-09

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HISTORY OF FANDOM CULTURE FROM LJ TO AO3

'What you are doing when you say “If you don’t want crit, don’t post your story” is gatekeeping, and in a REALLY harmful way. Without fans creating work (fanfiction or art or meta), there is no fandom. You’re not only saying “you can’t be in fandom if you don’t want to be hurt” you’re actively calling for fandom to be cut down. That’s a bad thing. Fandom needs creator content in order to exist and grow.’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/186058432379/so-if-youve-watched-my-general-meltdown-about

Foz: straight dudes of the world…read fanfic:

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230785234/fozmeadows-totallyevillisa

foz: on depression and hurt/comfort

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230730609/on-depression-and-hurtcomfort

fantastic Foz posts from a while ago, addressing the ‘well just censor content and then you’re not godless heathens’ fallacy…

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230530849/fantastic-foz-posts-from-a-while-ago-addressing

Fanfiction & Capitalism, and Why I Think They Are Related [TW for homophobia, mentions of sexual violence, capitalism]

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230748619/fanfiction-capitalism-and-why-i-think-they-are

Fair use is authorized by law

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230721574/fyeahcopyright-heidi8-fair-use-is-wholly

fantastic breakdown of the sociology that led from LJ community culture to tumblr anonymous disconnected culture:

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/611096897406615552/kanna-ophelia-taraljc-kanna-ophelia

'The Places Fandom Dwells: A cautionary Tale’ - EXCELLENT, LOTS OF LINKS

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179355549419/the-places-fandom-dwells-a-cautionary-tale

'It just kills me when writers create franchises where like 95% of the speaking roles are male, then get morally offended that all of the popular ships are gay. It’s like, what did they expect?’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/173587593934/bonehandledknife-feynites-theskaldspeaks

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BIG AO3 POSTS - HISTORY OF FANDOM

great breakdown of stats on how HUGE AO3 actually is…

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230519234/why-are-people-still-up-in-arms-about-ao3-needing

another breakdown of how huge AO3 is & intricate skills required to run it

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179336300829/hey-ao3-can-you-like-give-the-extra-38k-you-made

AO3 is in the top 300 biggest websites in the WORLD/how a huge site like this works

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230400619/hey-ao3-can-you-like-give-the-extra-38k-you-made

origin story of AO3 - very sweet  (10th anniversary of AO3)

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230398054/on-the-ao3-all-these-years-later

this blogger remembers when we didn’t have AO3

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179391607249/this-blog-is-unrepentantly-pro-ao3

adults built fandom - who runs cons? who runs AO3 & the legal team at OTW? codes the servers?

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179430883009/naryaflame-vanimore-askragtatter-rsasai

“AO3 IS OUR SITE.  It is by fans, for fans. Fans do all the coding. All the legal paperwork. All the abuse/tos violation complaints. Fans make all the choices about policies. Fans decide how to run the fundraisers. Fans write the blog posts. All the volunteer staff are fans; all the people who train them are fans. Fans wrangle all the tags.”

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/188239677029/purge-of-2002-of-2012-what-are-those

'Certain people are screaming that AO3 is bad because it’s not a “safe space.” The real problem they have, though, is that AO3 was created to be a safe space - for writers.’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/165199049719/rapacityinblue-kaciart-rocket-sith

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FANDOM HISTORY & CULTURE

copperbadge - fandom dad explains concrit & why it’s not welcome without specific request

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/186983936704/question-as-an-oldster-and-fandom-lurker-since

fanfic/fanart is a gift - respect it in the way you respect something freely given

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/187512037844/trickztr-friendly-reminder-that-fan-made

'Toxic Fandom: Chen Criticism and Entitlement Go Too Far’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179392060549/toxic-fandom-when-criticism-and-entitlement-go

an explanation of the anti’s as very damaged authoritarianism

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230513414/freedom-of-fanfic-freedom-of-fanfic

why do fangirls always make them gay?

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/162428018414/why-do-fangirls-always-make-them-gay

fandom history through the ages and across continents

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/129594965539/teashoesandhair-ogress-jhameia

one of several versions of a HUGE history post educating people on why we need a non-censored AO3 & why this is vital (and how misinformed many fans are)

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230393414/theothersarshi-redshoesnblueskies

another version: https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/173741270214/grison-in-space-veronica-rich

conversation on AO3 tagging (plus being screwed by censorship

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179391926284/except-that-no-one-uses-tags-like-fetishized

how AO3 is run by volunteer & how to volunteer yourself

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230390519/in-kind

Ao3 fund drive post that goes into why they don’t censor

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179230054009/anarfea-anarfea-people-keep-asking-how-can

what 'Archive of Our Own’ refers to

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179136825394/what-archive-of-our-own-refers-to

AO3’s transparent financial reporting & a good rant

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179136341494/ao3-donation-drive

a short explanation of LJ strikethrough

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179124456874/telarna-meeedeee-bomberqueen17-i-just

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LIGHTER FARE

origin of the ! - the “bang path’ in fandom pairings :D

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/118991314994/hey-whats-up-with-the-in-fandoms-ie-fat

can we PLEASE have an AO3 rating system for books & media?? pleeeeease???  here’s some thoughts on how:

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/119377580254/crowd-sourced-content-warnings-at-book-stores

LJ was my initial experience of examining how fic fits into these huge gaps left by conventional writing, media and daily IRL conversation/education - the kind of healing that fic can bring to both individuals and a collective body of both knowledge and healthy questioning of assumptions about sexuality as a whole.  I mean, the kind of absolutely common place knowledge about consent, power dynamics, experimentation to determine what one’s own sexuality looks like, and the the options available is extraordinary.  To have that breadth and depth of knowledge presented in an often beautifully creative format; where you could discuss with the author and other readers anything included in the fic and what it meant to both literature and real life, as well as all things fannish that one’s wild imagination could come up with…. good god what I would have given for that information as a teen.  

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/122835116349/bonehandledknife-redshoesnblueskies

Fandom Is…. (poem)

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/124514359704/fandom-is-focus-fandom-is-obsession-fandom-is

Can fandom bring back the concept of a squick? Pleeeease?

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/126342903959/can-fandom-bring-back-the-concept-of-a-squick

'so don’t pretend it can’t be done, author dudes, because there’s a million fangirls who can write lyric filthy devastating character-revealing plot-advancing poetic tender wall-slamming trope-inverting panting sweaty trope-embracing aching crying sex…..and can do it far far better than you.’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/124171180589/sex-is-hard-to-write-about-because-you-lose-the

'It’s just fanfic…’

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/126188502159/its-just-fan-fic

“Ship means something you want to see happen.” Bitch, no it don’t.

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/179234734799/pyrebomb-ship-means-something-you-want-to-see

why can you sell fanart, but not fanfic??

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/128782763684/legal-side-of-tumblr-can-you-answer-me-a

humor: different types of fanfic - in graphics:

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/129402064267/justanotherfmablog-yougothenigo

THE SUFFERING ARTIST CONCEPT IS BULLSHIT AND SHOULD BE BLOWTORCHED:

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/186461152949/zendarkwalkerx-magicianmew-katiecrenshaw

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/166161827744/if-one-more-person-says-what-if-theyd-medicated

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IF YOU’VE MADE IT THIS FAR, YOU DESERVE STARSHIPS (SCROLL DOWN):

https://redshoesnblueskies.tumblr.com/post/138038043884/samati-saathi1013-tygermama-zillah975

[tarysande]

To critique or not to critique (of the unsolicited kind)

Spoiler alert: I firmly belong to the not camp.

A post just crossed my dash that put the worst taste in my mouth. I don’t want to reblog it, but I do want to address the contents because I think the subject is super important.

The post basically boiled down to: fanfic writers are thin-skinned babies “these days” because no one can take constructive criticism. In “my day” we all sent page-long critiques like the dedicated heroes we were! It made us better writers! Moreover, if I didn’t like something, I told the writer all about it! It was my job!

Hold up, what?

I’ve been posting fanfic online since 1998. Twenty years. Pre-archives. And “in my day” we had betas if we wanted/needed/asked for them (whose critiques didn’t have an audience). We said “concrit welcome” if we actually wanted constructive criticism. We did not show up unannounced to point out a work’s flaws because that is rude. Look, I am an editor. People pay me real money to edit things for them. I would rather cut off my own fingers than burst into someone’s comments and start “critiquing” their work without being asked first.

Here’s something that needs to be addressed: fanfiction is real writing, yes, but it is, by its nature as something that isn’t monetized, a hobby. As in, a thing people do for fun. A thing that hopefully brings both authors and readers joy! The story an author posts is a gift; how dare anyone rip a gift apart in front of the gift-giver and all the other party attendees? How entitled and ungrateful can you be? Fandom is not a frigging battleground where authors learn to harden themselves for war. It’s a hobby. Done out of love and enthusiasm. 

Yes, some fanfiction writers (certainly not all!!) aspire to be original fiction writers. They may use fanfiction as a training ground. They may want or benefit from constructive criticism. Still, they have to ask. They have to start the conversation. I know (think?) it’s harder to find betas these days, but it’s always worth asking around if real critique is what you want. Put “concrit welcome and even begged for” in the author’s notes and hope someone takes you up on it. 

Some fanfiction writers with original fiction aspirations still don’t want criticism about their fic. Fic may be their fun-writing outlet. It may be about instant gratification (and there’s nothing wrong with that; we’re not in the business of denying ourselves pleasure out of some moral superiority here. It’s fandom). It may be the place where they post to get around their fears of showing things to others. It may be the place they take risks they wouldn’t in their original work because the stakes are lower. When you work on your original writing all day, every day---often putting that work through far more vigorous and exhausting paces than fanfic sees---the last thing you want is someone showing up during your time off to point out a frigging comma splice or shift in POV.

The point is unless someone asks for critique, you don’t know what’s going on with them. Maybe fic is the only fun thing they have in their lives. Maybe they’re writing in a different language. Maybe they are 14. Or 82. Maybe they’ve never written fiction of any kind before and this is their baby step forward. Maybe fic is just escapism. Maybe they are depressed or anxious as hell and criticism is going to push them over an edge. Fandom belongs to everyone. Not just people deemed “good” or “perfect” or “permitted” or “thick-skinned.” People don’t need to be saved from grammar mistakes or poor turns of phrase or even plotholes so wide a semi could drive through them. Authors sure as hell don’t need to be told when a reader just doesn’t like something. There is no fandom police force in charge of perfection. If critique is so important to you, advertise your willingness to beta. If you do not like a story or think it’s “bad” hit the freaking back button. 

Unsolicited criticism is not helpful. Maybe you just catch someone off-guard and startle them. At worst, you may totally shatter someone’s self-esteem while they are partaking in a hobby they 100% do for fun---and not in pursuit of some unattainable perfection.

Don’t ruin a stranger’s day or week or hobby because you “know better” and somehow think you need to prove it. You don’t.

[saltoftheao3]

[1/6 (Sorry!)] Lately I've seen posts in the vein of "Don't leave unsolicited concrit that's just called being an asshole" and that culture is a bit puzzling to me. Personally, I write long comments. Rarely under 100 words, usually 400-1500 (I hit the AO3 character limit all the time), almost always after re-reading the work (I read a lot on my phone but re-access the fics on my laptop for comments). I talk about my reaction to the story, gush about the ship, quote fave parts, all that stuff.

[2/6] As a writer myself, I also pay a lot of attention to people’s style and the technical aspects, and this is what I sometimes give concrit-like opinions about. Not story choices or headcanons, not random typos or anything, but I might say “I had a bit of a hard time following who was saying which lines in this section” or “the changing tenses in this part threw me off the loop for a bit”. I try to frame those things as personal opinions and say it’s up to the author if they want to -  

[3/6] heed the advice or not. I’m not advocating the “tough love” type of feedback, either. At 14 I was targeted by some random adult in dA who methodically ripped apart everything I uploaded for months. I responded politely but I was pretty upset by her constant barraging disguised as helpful advice. (I just went to see her profile and interestingly she hasn’t been active at all since I eventually blocked her) So I know that the concept of concrit absolutely can be abused and how that feels.            

[4/6]But in the past months I’ve seen a lot of people say that even 1-2 slightly critical sentences in a 1000+ word comment invalidates all the positives and “just leaves a sour taste”. Obviously I can’t say what people do or don’t feel but…I was honestly surprised by this mindset. I always assumed that when I write “Let me hear your thoughts” on my notes, it means “tell me what’s good and what’s bad”. Now I feel a bit weird about the positive comments I have - are they holding something back?    

[5/6] Thing is, what made me quit writing for 5 years was not crushing feedback, but deafening silence. If I could choose between someone honestly engaging with my work, including its shortcomings, and not saying anything at all, I will take the criticism any day. I feel that explicitly asking for concrit deters the keysmashers and the cute one-line commenters, so I haven’t done that (I already say I welcome pretty much all feedback in my profile, but it seems no one reads those in AO3).      

[6/6] Of course feedback is subjective and readers have no way of knowing what the author was thinking. BUT, I’d like to think readers are intelligent humans whose subjective views CAN be helpful. This is not a simple issue, and I’ll probably be even more careful about commenting in the future, but I simply can’t agree with posts that pretend there is zero difference between tearing a story apart and mentioning one suggestion in an essay of praise. (Some PM system in AO3 would be great tho) 

First of all, thank you for your very thoughtful and well-phrased ask, dear anon. I always fear that i don’t do that kind of ask justice but i’ll try my best, sorry for the time it has taken me.    

There’s been very different arguments in this debate, (check #the great comment debate), and i think you’re far from the only one with this opinion.

I do too think that there’s a difference between “tearing a story apart and mentioning one suggestion in an essay of praise“, as you said it, and i think the kind of feedback you described yourself as giving would be well-received by a big majority of writers.

And as I mention here and there, i think that assuming friendly intent is crucial to internet interaction, that lacks so much of the intonations and cues we use to understand what someone means.

I also sometimes fear that this entire debate leads to readers chosing not to give feedback at all, rather than risking hurting sensibilities, and well … that’s really not the point. “[C]rushing feedback” or “deafening silence���? Both are toxing to fandoms, both kill the joy in creating, but i really think there’s a lot of room to navigate in between.

What i try to do is get writers to make it a habit of specifying in the author’s notes what kind of feedback you enjoy. It seems to me the only reliable way of producing statisfactory interaction for readers and writers, to make up for the huge variety of attitudes towards fandom and feedback. Some of you may remember i’ve suggested it as an AO3 feature a long while back, but in the meantime just an author’s note with “I love all kinds of comments, long, short, criticism or not” or “Comments make me happy, but please no bashing” could do wonder to clarify things for the readership.

Also, if this can reassure you, i really don’t think your readers were holding back when they said positive things, nonnie.

Personally, when i read fanfic i just… genuinely don’t pay attention to potential flaws and weaknesses? That’s not the way i engage with the material. When reading fanfic, i’m more likely to spot gorgeous sentences, funny bits and great worldbuilding, and to try and remember them so i can tell the writer.

The more awkward or dull parts just..don’t register much, i kinda gloss over them and don’t try to actively keep them in my mind. It’s completely different when i beta-read: there i pay attention to both what i really like and what i’m indifferent towards, i’m in a very different mindset.

I don’t think that “positivity bias” makes my comments less honest.

Pffffuh, this has turned into unstructured rambling, sorry for that (but also my browser has crashed three times so i’ll just put the blame on that). Hope you continue to delight writers with long, thoughtful reviews, those are SO nice to get

[yumearashi]

The nonexistent right and wrong of creativity

So a few of my tumblr friends have been having a very lively debate lately about whether it’s okay to leave unasked-for concrit on fanfiction (spoiler: the answer is no - always ask if first if the author welcomes concrit, and if they say no then hold your peace and move along).

I think many people forget that disliking something does not make it objectively bad.  You might think a story is garbage or have tons of opinions on what the author should have done differently, but they’re just that.  Opinions.  Inherently subjective.  Even if the author made all the changes recommended in your concrit, it wouldn’t make the story better - just more to your personal liking.  Another reader might feel that those exact same changes ruined it (and possibly even leave their own concrit telling the author to take it out!)

If I'm eating dinner at a friend’s house and they serve asparagus soup, I won't like it because I don't like asparagus.   But that doesn't mean the soup is bad - it might be the best asparagus soup ever made.  The only thing my dislike means is that it's not to my own personal taste.  I might politely decline, or I might be adventurous and try it but then quietly not finish my bowl, but I'd be rude as hell to say it's terrible or that they should have served some other soup instead. 

Oh, and for all the folks in the audience currently going ‘but it IS objectively bad!’ - there is no such thing as objectively bad because it's CREATIVE writing.  You want to write the most floridly purple prose you can come up with just to see if you can make Hemingway spin in his grave?  Go nuts!  You want to do an experimental dialogue-only fic with two characters speaking single words back and forth?  Cool, good luck!  Single-sentence stories?�� Million word fic? Raw RP logs?  A story from the viewpoint of a character’s pet goldfish?  May the muses bless you with the perfect words.  There are no rules in fanfiction. 

Personally, I find most 'rules’ for How To Write Proper Fiction to be pretentious snobbery whose only weight is that people were told to do it this way by an authority figure of some kind - it doesn't actually make a story any better, and disobeying it doesn't make a story any worse.  And frankly it doesn't matter to me whether it comes from a professional editor with a major publishing house or the Professor Emeritus of Creative Writing at Harvard University - I simply don't care.  Your life as a writer began the day you started to develop your writing?  That's great for you, I truly wish you all the best in your journey of constant improvement.  The day MY life as a writer began is the day I stopped letting other people tell me how and what to write.  No one's telling you that you shouldn't want to improve as a writer - why are you telling anyone else that they should?

[butyouvealwaysbeenthecaretaker]

What makes a bad community?

Do you ever come across a community where you cannot *believe* the level of drama being produced?

I've been mulling this over and some of the factors might be...

Important parts of your contribution cannot be measured: ie LGBT, religion, your realness or validity cannot be objectively assessed, requiring power plays to be perceived as the best

Not actually competitive: if you play chess, sports, wargames there is an objective, agreed way to judge who is the best, unlike an art hobby

Attracts especislly vulnerable, young or drama prone people: people who are secure in themselves don't make this kind of drama. People who need attention and validation do.

One or two extremely bad eggs in leadership/tastemaker positions: these people set the tone for acceptable behavior, and chase off more reasonable voices.

Money: the hobby is expensive, and thus stressful to invest in (what if I can't afford it? What if I can, but still don't get the attention I crave?), and envy-provoking to participate in; access to expensive books, equipment, collectibles etc is unjustly craved by some and unkindly flaunted by others.

Money: some participants are semi-pro or pro, leading to bad blood when transactions go wrong, plus an imbalance of talent or skill favouring a niche group to the detriment of unskilled amateurs; loyalties to artists or hatred of them, fanned or encouraged by the artists themselves who are small time enough to be to be doing their own marketing

Scarcity: obvs, online there is the attention economy. However, limited edition anything, or competition for sex, for funding, scholarships, publication etc makes true comradeship complicated

Potential for politics: you really can't discourse about origami. Other hobbies, however, are more prone to divisive and deep-cutting faultlines which produce a lot of interaction. Discourse - even the needed kind - always leads to bitterness.

Bad behavior rewarded: people who are unkind and overblown are promoted, rewarded or amplified, normalising this as a way to participate.

An external, rather than internal, facing hobby: buying teddy bears is external, you buy them to own them and so what you're getting from community is others looking at what you have (and threatening your access to limited edition bears). Something like sewing, music or painting does at least require a lot of private time spent engaged in a craft: the core of the hobby is away from community spaces, done for oneself and by oneself

Level of personal investment in this identity/community: if I've invested $500 in a custom doll, then criticism of it (or the artist, or the TV show its from) is by extention criticism of ME. If I've made some origami boxes, criticism is asshole behavior but it was low investment and easier to brush off.

Other things in common: are you making friendships with people who happen to share a hobby, or are relationships in the community superficial, almost like networking, always on the level of the hobby. Are you invested in one another as people, or as content providers/rivals/followers etc? Does the community structure help you make these kinds of connections?

At least some people who enjoy participating in the drama as much or more than the actual hobby; or in any case, their blog is more devoted to drama

Important unenforced rules which some people are devoted to enforcing: one or a group of people have found purpose in enforcing a particular value, standard, requirement for the hobby. Although their cause may have merit, the vehemence and bitterness with which it is pursued comes to dominate their experience of the hobby, and the community space. There is a constant risk of being discovered and mobbed by this group.

(This has two aspects - the first being, is it the kind of community where rules are both important but unfixed, or necessary but impossible to enforce. The second being, does the community have people who have invested their identity in demanding this standard is met. Think drama about counterfeit collectibles, scammers, untrustworthy traders; and also things like, ace discourse, terf discourse, transmed discourse)

No walled gardens: you have to participate through the main community. It's too small to splinter, or too concentrated in one place (online or irl), and you cannot effectively bar nasty people or opt out of experiencing drama first or 2nd hand

(Note: this post is not about abuse spaces or predatory people, just places which have persistent low level nonsense in a way which really...bums out the hobby and makes it more stressful than it ought to be)

Other ideas? Concrit welcomed.

[gaylegohell]

All You Zombies

I know where I came from--- but where did all you zombies come from?

Ch. 1

[[WELCOME BACK!!! Please enjoy this new-and-improved 2017 version of All You Zombies!! Thanks always to @cleversnail for his beta and concrit and generally being excited and supportive]]

Feat: Bad Cop and GHOST BENNY

Warnings: Swears, blood

In 1987 the spaceship Gemini V burned up on reentry. The ship and her crew were on the return flight from a moonbase resupply mission when a piece of debris the size of a football tore through the left wing of the craft as she approached deorbit. She broke apart in the atmosphere, falling to pieces over a field in California, her brave crew with her. They were mourned as heroes. There was little to recover. A few tiles, a charred piece of equipment. The only thing not burnt beyond recognition was a helmet with the visor cracked straight down the middle.

A memorial was built in their honor at the Space Corps campus, the helmet on display as a reminder of those who gave their lives to touch the stars.

As it so often happens, exhibits shuffled and memories faded. But the memorial remained, with the helmet and the other artifacts, while other exhibits sprung up around it at the Space Corps' Air and Space Museum. It was then things turned unusual.

The memorial and the Space Gallery it was housed in were plagued with unusual noises. Planes in other parts of the museum swung on updrafts when the air was deathly still. And more often than not the cracked helmet would fall off its pillow and violently smash against its plexiglass prison.

A good night security guard was hard to keep. Any night security guard was hard to keep, for that matter. Stories of the museum being haunted spread like wildfire. The 30th anniversary of the Gemini V crash was quickly approaching and the director was desperate to get a new security guard, and hopefully bring some peace to the museum at the same time.

Bad Cop was having a hard time adjusting to life off the police force. Even the nickname stuck. He was badly injured in the line of duty and left with fucked up eye and a bad knee. It was kindly suggested he take his retirement and enjoy his new life. They would carry on without him.

But he's restless, anxious without a job, and sitting around his apartment just makes his knee ache more. His assistant chief keeps in close contact with him, thank God for her, and passes along word that the Air and Space Museum is hiring. Security. Graveyard shift. They couldn't keep anyone longer than a few weeks. B leaps at the chance. Night shift with no one around? Sign him the fuck up.

He has impressive credentials and he's hired right on the spot.

"Thank you, Officer O'Neill, you'll get--" the museum director says, offering her hand.

"O'Neill will do," B grumbles fiercely. Not strictly an officer anymore, though he still carries himself like one.

"Of course, sir," she stammers. She holds the door open for him.

"You'll start tomorrow night, if that's alright. Don't let the other guards scare you," she adds.

B snorts. Like anyone could scare him.

B shows up to his first shift 15 minutes early in his new white and starched uniform, waiting for his supervisor while everyone else files out for the night. Nearly everyone wishes him "Good luck," under their breath. B scowls behind his aviator sunglasses.

His supervisor rushes in, ring of keys jangling, looking harried and nervous.

"Okay, let's get this over with."

"You in a hurry?" B remarks dryly. His supervisor is all but jogging through the main atrium and B has to take large strides to keep up.

"Ah, well, lots to show you." The supervisor doesn't look at him.

"Hmm," B scowls again.

The museum is spacious: a large wagon wheel with another smaller wheel inside. They make their way out from the rotunda, making a right and following the path through the history of early flight, from Wright flyers to biplanes to fighter jets. B makes a mental note to come back and explore the exhibits once he's on his own.

There's an uneasy silence without the air conditioning running, without the sound of people. The shadows of the planes suspended from the ceilings cast odd sharp shadows along the walls. B's supervisor is far from at ease.

"So the, uh, break room is here once you walk through the Pavilion of Flight here, and it takes you to the rest of the museum. The break room has lockers and showers and vending machines and all that good stuff." The supervisor motions to the glass rotunda above them, "and I'll show you where the CCTV is."

He then turns on his heel and follows the curve of the museum wing back through where they came from.

B thinks it odd they're retracing their steps and he's barely listening to his supervisor telling him which doors need to be locked once the museum is empty of guests for the day. Maybe it's his ruined eye playing tricks, but he swears he sees the shadows dancing and following the two men back through the museum.

"So you can sit at this desk here at the front," the supervisor says, visibly sweating now and checking over his shoulder. "This is where the day guards sit and watch the cameras. You can cycle through them here and you don't have to walk through the museum."

"What's in the rest of the museum," B says. It's not a question.

"The, um. Space Gallery. You don't have to walk through there. Don't even worry about it."

B raises an eyebrow and a faint breeze plays across the desk.

"Hm," B says again. Something's up and he doesn't like the feel of it.

With that, the supervisor unclips the massive ring of keys from his belt and deposits it unceremoniously on the desk.

"Your training manual is there, if you have any questions. And if, um...anything weird happens, call me on the radio."

"Like kids throwin' rocks, eh?" B tries a smile. The supervisor gives him a panicked look instead.

"Alright. Well. Good luck, Officer--."

Before B can correct him, he's out the door and locking it behind him.

"Bunch of feckin' lunatics around here," B mutters to himself. He clips the keys to his belt, grabs the flashlight from off the desk, and goes about his rounds.

It's not so bad, really. It's dark and quiet, just how he likes it. No paperwork. No constant noise of the police scanner.

A shadow flickers on his right side just out of his line of sight. This unreliable goddamn eye. His rubs it fiercely.

BANG. CRASH.

It sounds harsh. Metal on metal.

"God almighty." B reaches for his sidearm but finds the flashlight instead. He sighs. Sounds like it came from the "forbidden" Space Wing of the museum. He straightens his uniform with a sharp tug and a determined glint in his eye. Like hell he was gonna sit at a desk all night with intruders roaming around.

B hardly notices the Memorial Wing and completely walks past it until another BANG draws his attention back to it. He clutches his flashlight and grits his teeth. Someone is obviously playing a prank. He remembers what the museum director said. Don't let the other guards scare you. He takes a few steps into the wing, sweeping his flashlight into every corner.

"Who's there?" he growls.

No answer.

The dark mahogany-paneled room is dim, all the lights off save a few recessed lights in the ceiling, reflecting off the glass cases of artifacts. Spotlights are turned towards crew photos--those who gave their lives in the name of science and exploration. All the spotlights are off, except one. B makes his way towards it, flashlight at the ready.

B doesn't remember the photograph of the Gemini V crew being so brightly lit when he walked in. The crew smiles back at him and the card on the wall informs him the crew perished in an accident in 1987. He vaguely remembers watching the news coverage of it when he was nine or ten. The worst space disaster to date. The poor crew looked so young. Five young men and women in blue flight suits, a redhead with a bright smile and summer freckles grinning for all his life in the middle of them. B nods his respects to the memorial and heads back into the space exploration wing.

"HEY."

B whirls around but he can see no one. He curses his eye again, rubbing it angrily, his aviators balanced on his forehead.

"Quit messin’ or I'll call the police," B shouts into the darkness. He raises his flashlight menacingly. It does little to pierce the gloom of the enormous space.

Three sharp raps come again from the Memorial Wing.

The hair on the back of B's neck stands on end.

"Listen here, you'd better come out or there will be consequences," B's voice echoes through the halls and he's met with another three sharp raps.

It's coming from the artifact cases.

A cracked helmet has moved off its pillow and fallen on its side. B makes a mental note to tell the director so it can get fixed tomorrow. He leans in for a closer look and the helmet slams itself against the display case.

B almost falls over, stumbling back in shock.

"Janey Mac," he mutters, recovering quickly. Must have been a loose floorboard, or perhaps a slight tectonic shift, he thinks. A lorry driver charging by on the road outside. Right, so. Best to leave it alone. He's got too much to do to let a few odd things get the better of him.

Still, he decides he's going to leave that section well alone for the rest of the night.

B makes his way back through the museum, cautiously avoiding the Space Gallery. He doesn't notice the shadows following him.

Back at the front desk he decides to take a break and crack open the training manual the supervisor gave him, thought it's really nothing more than a three ring binder and a handful of laminated pages. He dutifully thumbs through them, making notes to ask his supervisor about later.

Another loud BANG comes from deep within the museum. B turns to the CCTV at his desk. All is quiet and still. He wills his heart to calm down and turns back to his manual.

Hours pass by with only a handful more bangs and odd shadows. B feels himself settle.

The museum is dark and silent at last. He's alone and it's delightful. He could get used to this.

"Listen dude, I'm pulling out all the stops here and you're gonna ignore me?"

B looks up and tumbles out of his chair, papers falling in every direction.

"What--who the fuck?" B stammers from the floor.

There's a figure sitting cross-legged on his desk. It smiles, flashing a mouthful of broken and bloody teeth. Its blue flight suit is torn and bloodied, mission patches peeling at the corners, name bar burned off.

"I'm calling the police!" B manages to spit as he scrambles to right himself and grabs his flashlight.

"To tell 'em what? That you saw a ghost and got spooked?" The figure laughs and vanishes before B can blink.

B sits in shock on the floor, trying to process what just happened. He can't. It makes no sense. No sense at all. God almighty--did he fall asleep? Did he have a bad dream? A nightmare? Surely that's what this must have been. He runs his hands shakily through his hair, takes several deep breaths. He's very tired. It's been a long night. Stress of the new job and all. And it's been ages since he worked the graveyard shift. He just needs to get used to it once more. Still, it's embarrassing, to be sleeping on the job. He'd best not make that mistake again. He'll bring in his own coffee next shift. B hauls himself back up into his chair and hunkers down with his manual, scanning the CCTV, and waits for morning.

"Good morning, sir!" The supervisor is a little too bright as he unlocks he front door of the museum.

"Mornin'," B nods. It's anything but a good morning. His eye hurts and he's on edge. He wants nothing more than a hot shower and a long nap.

"Anything happ-- how'd it go last night?" The supervisor is almost afraid to ask.

"Wonderful. Whole place was quiet as a mouse," B lies.

The supervisor looks shocked.

"Wait, really? Quiet?"

"Yessir," B says.

The supervisor just looks at him, completely dumbstruck.

"Right, so. See you later tonight then?" B nods, and he's out the door before the supervisor can say anything more.

He drives home, musing about his night. It's definitely not the worst job he's had. And tomorrow is always another day.

--------

[[click here for ch. 2!!]]