#clearly rhaenys is too good of a leader for these people to understand | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lemonhemlock · 2 months

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It’s very amusing that Condal clearly wants to adapt AFFC, and how people eat it up despite it not being earned. AFFC was the fourth book of the series, after the beheading of Ned, Winterfell falling, Jaime losing his hand, the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding. All the reasons for why the War of the Five Kings is over, all those people are either dead or scattered to the wind, and yet the war rages on. It’s a pointless war that characters we have grown to know and love undergo intense changes in, notably Jaime and Brienne as they wander through the Riverlands, Arya in Braavos, Sam on the edge of despair as he journeys south. Frankly? Considering that the Dance hasn’t even properly started yet and no one cares about the deaths that have occurs (Luke, Jaehaerys, Rhaenys) the sheer fatalism feels unearned bc no one has gone through gut wrenching tragedy yet. “War is pointless.” Great, but we got another two seasons of this and if the characters think this story is dumb and pointless and are just going through the motions, why should we watch? It’s frankly just too early for everyone to lose their shit bc they haven’t even begin to truly lose everything yet. The characters themselves thinking it’s pointless robs them of motivations bc we still got more than half the story to go! Criston’s monologue in the finale is good but that’s because it’s directly cribbed from Jaime’s “honor is mist” speech but it’s not nearly as earned bc we don’t have any idea how or why he started sleeping with Alicent or even why he became a kingsguard in the first place! Daemon’s Harrenhal arc ended with him somehow obsessed with a prophecy and connecting it back to Rhaenyra without him coming to terms with Viserys not trusting him with the prophecy which is what he was mad about in the first place!

We never actually see anyone react to anything, and the limping plodding along of character development happening off screen so we never see how or why anyone changes is not good! Episode 7 actually gave me some hope bc Rhaenyra seemed to be embracing her role as a leader of there’s dragonriders the gods have given her, but in the next episode she’s literally saying the exact same lines “what would you have me do” and “who will pay the price” which she said at the start of the season! Even Alicent’s about face is unearned bc we don’t actually see her truly fight with her children about anything, really. She just lets them talk in her face and then limps away to camp in a scene that’s “all about rebirth bc baptism and water” without ever getting to the core of anything. It’s a beautiful show full of empty symbolism without a narrative actually underpinning it, borrowing from a better story without understanding what makes that story so good.

You said it more eloquently than I could at the moment. It's not just one or two badly executed points, nothing gets built up, nothing gets resolved or even discussed, we just skip past A TON of vital characterisational changes and are expected to "fill in the gaps". No, they're just bad at writing. You wouldn't be reading a book or watching a show that is so bad at these elements - people are watching because it's ASOIAF.

Why is Alicent so mad? Aegon has barely done anything as king, he's actually tried to help the smallfolk in his audiences! Aemond dismissed her from the Council, sure, which I found a dumb political plot hole, but she hasn't done much to address it? And what exactly has Criston Cole done all season that he is the most reprehensible male character on the show? He didn't vote for Alicent and called her by her name. Does he deserve to die for that? Has Alicent ever been portrayed as the type of character who would react so disproportionately? That's Aemond-level writing. Is Alicent = Aemond now? (She isn't even shown being mad at Criston for sending Arryk after Rhaenyra!)

What Alicent is shown to have a problem with is Aemond burning Aegon. But then again why abandon Aegon to be executed by Rhaenyra? Just overdose him on milk of the poppy and let him die, ffs. Alicent also suspects Criston is not telling her about Aemond's crime, but they part on okay terms? She gives him her favour? How do you go from that to dooming him by revealing his coordinates?

I would really like to pile on-to the AFFC copycat accusations* with Succession rip-offs (my followers are probably tired of hearing me mention it, but it's truly what prestige television should be and it's what we should be comparing HotD to!). First it was teenage!Aegon wanking in the window à la Roman Roy, then Alicent suddenly gets water symbolism this season like Kendall and "I do not wish to hear it"? Do they think they're being cute here?

*not just with Criston, but with Rhaena, too, although you could at least argue there that GRRM himself is also mirroring Jaime and Sansa there

#hotd s2

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centrally-unplanned · 3 months

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House of the Dragon "peace arc" was generally cringe though with a bright spot at the core. Rhaenys came off the worst for it; sitting in a council meeting getting news that the enemy has marched an army, taken two of their castles, and sacked a city and calling those wanting to respond to that warmongering idiots is an amateur hour moment. It isn't like Rhaenyra was heading to King's Landing to surrender or anything, she wanted a negotiated peace. To get that, you need a position of strength - otherwise your enemy is less likely to make peace with you, as the cost of killing you is so low. "War begets war" is an aphorism, not an iron law; this cowardice in the name of conflict avoidance serves neither peace nor their war. Smack their advancing army with a squad of dragons and show them "hey, this is what More War is gonna bring - let's give peace a chance hm?" You only make peace with your enemies, after all, reminding them of that fact is not the barrier to peace naive instinct thinks it is. And then you also aren't telling your own vassals you are going to ditch them in the face of fire, bonus!

The way she seems haughtily superior to the "squabblings of men" while making a fool or herself is a real directorial fail, it is almost accidentally sexist - poor wimmins can't understand Clausewitz. Though I gotta give the actress Eve Best some unintentional credit:

I guess she fucking nailed it.

While I am bashing Rhaenys, the framing of the Vhagar/Meraxes fight is very strange - Rhaenys has clearly won the battle, because Sunfyre is pretty much dead, and you would likely bet Aegon with him, and the way it is shot strongly suggests Rhaenys successfully retreated while Aemond is not at all in pursuit. The whole battle was clearly a trap that she had just dodged. Then she doubles back anyway against a much stronger foe and loses while dealing no apparent damage. Why do that dumb thing? It's both way too risky and also strategically foolish - Meleys as the Black's strongest dragon is highly needed as a deterrent force. It would be more reasonable if Rhaenys was a proud warrior type, proud warriors do that kind of thing ("I can't abandon Rook's Rest!"), but she was defined by her caution up until she chose suicide-by-dracarys.

In the books she is ambushed by a cooperative Aegon/Aemond and dies fighting, easy peasy. The logic is sound, it is a weird change to make.

Speaking of bad tactics, why only send one dragon? If the other dragons were busy that would be one thing, but they mainly aren't, they are doing nothing of note at the time, you have like 4 of them. In the book Rhaenyra is being a bad leader, too grief-stricken or cowardly to go herself, and too possessive of her sons to let them fight; it is shown as a mistake. In this show it is shown as a moment of Rhaenys's courage; she is like "I will go your grace" and everyone is like "oooh" and the question of why this is a solo mission just gets swept aside. Again, you know Vhagar is stronger than you, teamwork is the only real chance you have, while having more dragons is your primary advantage. The Blacks can and should make mistakes, but it has to be framed as mistakes by the show.

This is of course downstream of the "make Rhaenyra the Good Guy" decision; but beyond the Rhaenys idiocy I think this worked great for her here. She didn't hesitate to help her allies; the moment she returned from her failed peace mission, she got right to work. Trying to make peace was idealistic but people are sometimes. And meanwhile I continue to support the Aegon's Dream choice - it really does give her this solid motivation beyond power for her commitment to her inheritance. It is framed really well - like she herself only half believes the prophecy. She is choosing to believe it because she is stuck now and needs moral certainty for the choices she is going to make. That is a very human thing to do, and insightful to essentially admit her own biases out the gate. It makes her likeable without giving her a moral pass for anything.

I do think the show has tipped a bit too far into the "greens = bad guys" camp in comparison though. I would have fixed that by making Rhaenyra more directly complicit in past crimes like killing those who called her children bastards, show she is too committed to this whole "law & prophecy above all" bit, and that the Greens have some legitimate grievances against her. But we may see her get corrupted by the war yet; hopefully they have the courage when it matters most.

#house of the dragon

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horizon-verizon · 4 months

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https://x.com/rhaenicentwin/status/1791621994053603489

They are always Rhaenicent fans…

Well, we are all entitled to have opinions even if I will never understand some or see how some are clearly just motivated by racism, sexism, etc.

And there's something to be said about how some of these characters on the black side are boring because the writers have removed some scenes we find out about a whole ass year after the first season. Plus, they simply didn't develop them or explore the children of the first set of characters enough in the first season: Baela and Rhaena, esp the latter, had almost no lines.

It's still a bit crazy when they try to argue the moral character or just plain "coolness" for "interestingness" of the greens when the "interestingness" of the green character(s) they like are really about either how physically attractive they find them or from the show's deliberate giving black traits to greens to "balance" the sides out in their misunderstanding or just noncaring about why the greens and the blacks are characterized the way they are towards this tale about misogyny and how it frames "deserving".

There's Jace, who the writers thought it'd make sense to have him not understand High Valyrian in all the time he's lived with High Valyrian-speaking people since birth (Rhaenyra, Laenor [esp with Rhaenys as his mother, and Daemon) who would all have been very proud of their heritage.

Then there is the fact they chose to emphasize how Aemond was the one to devote himself to "philosophies" and try to be the ideal "prince" or educate himself in being a proper leader...

when that has canonically more been Jace, who had the more reason to really apply himself because of the pressure of people's doubting his parentage and the belief of bastards not deserving/capable of inheriting certain types of leadership.

Aemond might have been a second son, but he was still legitimate and the son of a woman who is in her "proper" place as the consort to the King instead of a woman who is the first heir/woman also thought to be undeserving of the position. And not primarily because she's suspected of having had extramarital relationships but because she is female. The extramarital relationships and having children not her husbands are really just additional excuses made against her, to argue that she is not "responsible" and doesn't act like a "good" woman to be the next ruler of their society. Aemond doesn't have all of this to contend with, just his family's jealousy and desire to reinforce patriarchal authority.

Aemond canonically believes that it is his & his brothers' birthright, the throne. He was described/proven as "fierce" and very impulsive--more than Daemon--not just because he was much younger and eager to prove his martial and masculine prowess but also because his side of the family is so much less free & unconditional with their love in lieu of their more obsessed compulsion to "take back" what they thought should have been theirs by virtue of their male children's very existences. Further proven by how manically both he and Aegon insulted Rhaenyra or were fixated by going head to head against Daemon in the book.

In Westeros, there is actually a bit of a stigma of noblemen being "too" scholarly and not focusing more on being skilled at martial practices, especially swordsmanship. Because, again, that's how men get their glory and obtain more resources aside from inheritance or gifts. Look to how Pre-warrior Rhaegar the musician and Samwell Tarly are described by the people and historical writers and you will understand.

Therefore, I tend to think canon!Aemond would be less inclined to actually study "philosophies", and even if he did, he'd likely just read those that don't expand his world view but those that reaffirm his idea of his birthright & copy those medievalesque authors who aren't the sort of philosophers that try to challenge status quo like some people ight have assumed?

Would Aemond care to really ponder and reflect over men like Benedict rivers, who lived as a bastard of a Bracken and a Blackwood but became a king anyway to begin a long line of Justman kings? Or would that be Jace?

Jace, of the two, would have an equanimity and knowledge that Aemond just wouldn't have. And that also makes me dislike how much they didn not really show Jace having to battle between his frustrations, fears, and how he regulates his emotions and how ehe might slip up to contextualize his relationship with his family, esp with Luke. who we see him seemingly mistreat or at least unfailry take his anger out on with no apology. And "seemingly" because again, we are not given any other scenes of his development and interactions with his family. That and his fighting w/Aemond in episode 8 give more leeway to the impression that Jace is not as leader-quality as he should b, esp in comparison to Aemond (for some people, I still thought Aemond wasn't either, but the points that it leaves more room for that impression).

But many people want to just watch the show and not really engage with the themes of ASoIaF or think about stuff too "deeply". Or they already see some stupid shit in the writing and want to stay "positive" about it and enjoy the show, so If they express such I tend to leave them to it because I don't want to ruin their fun. As long as they don't say actually prejudiced stuff, and I don't just mean racist, sexist, etc. stuff. i mean where people severely try to make one feel guilty for actually understanding the story GRRM set out to make with the Dance. Like Daemon's fatherhood and the constant "he was a groomer" to try and somehow negate the effect of his presence in the black children's later post-Dance actions (Maiden's Ball). Some people either never read the book and/or do not plan on it. Or they have and they either quickly took Gyldayn's/Mushroom/Septon Eustace/Munkun/Orwyle's interpretations of mysterious/non-mysterious events to be unbiased fact. OR they read it and don't really compare the blacks to the greens and how/why they might do the things that they do themselves because, admittedly, the text is built from biased interpretations and thus it feels often like a futile pursuit sometimes with some specific phenomena that the book covers. Finally, some don't look to the So Spake Martin website for research or GRRM's own blog to see how he talks about his characters in F&B's Dance portion.

Therefore, it's not just Rhaenicent fans but some from Aegon stan circles and team black. People want to just watch the show 🤷🏻‍♂️.

#asoiaf asks to me #hotd fandom #fandom critical #fandom commentary #hotd writing #book vs tv comparisons #jacaerys velaryon #jacaerys velaryon's characterization #aemond targaryen #aemond's characterization #fire and blood characters #hotd characterization #character comparison

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