#classism innit

[spacelazarwolf]

“hey stop making jokes abt mass shootings in america”

“well u insult our accents which is classist so we’re both in the wrong”

[origami-butterfly]

I saw the stereotype that only British private schools teach separate sciences for gcse, and I need to disprove this

[spearheadrampancy]

i think if you have to be reminded that mocking a certain accent (with the "humour" generally being that said accent indicates poorness, lack of education, or something racist) then perhaps you are not as progressive as you claim to be. just a thought,

[subatomic-duck2]

2012 internet: *classism about british accents*

2022 internet: * classism about a different british accent*

[faithdeans]

where's my post about why i hate the word chav so much

[werewolfpdfs]

not even being a hater bc i love school and i love research papers and i love my profs. but consider also The Horrors

[transfaguette]

Also! Another aspect of this whole country debate is when people make fun of "the British accent" their example is always. The not-posh one? Like it's sooo funny to mock the 'commoner' accent?? Which feels a bit classist to me

(I'm talking 'aw mate can I've a glass of wo-er innit' and all that shit)

yeahhh. and its the same with southern and "redneck" accents. It's all just classism at the end of the day. We can do a bit of poking fun but when people take it too far it's just disrespectful.

[sonic-wildfire]

hey there! i saw your post about british vs american people and as a working-class british person who is now based in the us, i wanted to add my two cents. i think something a lot of americans don't realise about brits is that our class system is so deep-rooted in our society that seemingly trivial things such as accents are in fact an integral part of it. accents in britain are not indicators of where you live or where you come from, but whether you are "rich" or "not rich". people with, say, east london or liverpudlian accents find it much harder to gain social status or high-paying jobs regardless of their education or financial situation because the assumption is always that they are poor and stupid. people who come from working-class backgrounds are mercilessly mocked and at worst actively discriminated against for their accents in traditionally middle-to-upper-class areas such as universities, and end up changing their accents to blend in, so it's really a self fulfilling cycle. slang such as "innit" or pronunciations such as "chewsday" are inherently working-class, and as such, people mocking them will be perceived as classism by most working-class brits. what you're seeing is not a country full of snobs unable to take criticism, but people who have been ridiculed for their accents their whole lives, and have the ability to strike back without major consequence. the problem here isn't either of you, it's the lack of knowledge surrounding each other's cultures, as a seemingly innocuous comment from you can be seen as a direct attack to someone else regardless of intent. this was very long and rambly but i hope it clears some things up! top of the mornin' to ya, guv'na, and maybe next time we can come together and roast the shit out of the english upper class :)

as a final note, id like to say that obviously none of this justifies the disproportionate response you describe in your post, and i hope that both of our fucked up systems improve soon and no-one innocent gets hurt in the process (<- this was very poorly articulated but i hope you understood what i was trying to say!)

I will admit, you have given me a new perspective on the matter of accents. I had figured there might be some form of class differences at play here, but I hadn’t realized just how deep those differences are rooted over in the UK.

In all honesty, taking a jab at accents was certainly not the best example to use, to put it lightly, and I apologize for that.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out; a friend of the working class is a friend of mine :)

[martianclown]

Why do people love defending Jason so much? It's the classism innit?

[lovestuckyhatemarvel]

What? Am I finally rewatching season 3 of Stranger things? And is this me watching s3e1? Yes, yes it is. Why did I take so much time between seasons 2 and 3? Broken brain, innit?

1.) I understand they must have done so much work for the opening sequence of the Russian scientists turning the keys and starting up the thing that spins and does electric shit and opens a portal but I’m mostly focused on how there’s a noticeable difference between the portals and tentacles/vines between each season. Like really obvious if you’re watching them as closely together as I have been lately.

2.) I forgot the machine fucking explodes after failing to hold a gate open and they slow mo a bunch of randos dying.

3.) I also forgot how absolutely cartoonish the Russians are in this. That soldier went full Darth Vader on a random scientist for no fucking reason. God, the Duffers are boring.

4.) Oh yeah, this is the season when Hopper becomes annoying.

5.) Steve is adorable in his cute little Scoops Ahoy outfit. His shorts are longer than the kids’ shorts are. How do people think those shorts are slutty? Literally even Mike is wearing shorter shorts than Steve.

6.) I forgot there’s a power outage to the mall in episode 1. IDK how since Steve flipping the light switch a bunch and Robin calling him dingus for the first time in the show is referenced by like so many steddie writers.

7.) I forgot that dirt moving on its own is a plot point here.

8.) ‘Let there be light’. Steve Harrington is a dweeb.

9.) Will’s spidey senses are tingling

10.) I never noticed that Mike and Will have almost the same hair this season.

11.) Oh yeah, the beginnings of the duffers not actually understanding feminism because they don’t understand the intersection of sexism and classism.

12.) I forgot Dustin gets back episode 1. Maybe it’s because steddie fics space things out differently, but I thought I remembered it being like, episode 2 or something.

13.) I forgot all of Dustin’s toys lure him out thanks to El and it causes Dustin to spray Lucas in the eyes with hairspray for like a full 15 seconds.

14.) I want to force feed Billy Hargrove his own goddamn hair. Karen Wheeler, I still think you probably have really shitty politics but you deserve better than Billy.

15.) Hopper seems to have forgotten literally all his character development from season 2 just so Duffers can do the overprotective dad bit. Like what the fuck do you mean Hopper doesn’t know what a heart to heart is? I’ve seen the flashbacks to how he interacted with Sara. I saw the goddamn time he contacted El over the radio to apologize for being a shithead at the end of season 2!!!!!!!! Please stop acting like this grown ass man doesn’t understand what an apology is at this point.

16.) I love Max with all my heart

17.) Steve really is so bad at flirting. I would die for him.

18.) I really hate that suddenly Joyce has to teach Hopper, the guy who has comforted and sweet talked his way into literal government facilities, how to fucking talk to people nicely. Like DID THEY WATCH THEIR OWN SHOW? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. This characterization only works if you literally forget seasons 1 & 2.

19.) So many rats. So many really obviously fake rats. That’s not to say I’d want the exploding rats to be real, but something about the lighting on them or something is off.

20.) Will just wanted to play D&D but this season he’s Foreshadowing instead.

21.) Joyce is so goddamn sad and I would be too. RIP Bob Newby.

22.) Hopper really is a cartoon character of himself this season. Also why is he still in his work uniform this late at home?????? WHY CAN HE NO LONGER TALK TO CHILDREN AT ALL????? Suddenly he’s lying about a child’s grandma.

23.) Okay but Max is a genius and is super pretty.

24.) I think Will constantly asking for D&D and everyone blowing him off is why they think he’s the DM even though he isn’t

25.) IDK if I noticed before that the Russian code is literally translated in the subtitles

26.) I’m still shocked the fandom loves Billy as much as they do since he’s obnoxious, racist, and definitely up for being a cheater, and usually at least one of those things is a dealbreaker for people on tumblr to think he’s fuckable. Usually the ‘fucks married women’ part.

[ohemaa-warrior]

Can you articulate more on "working class salary with middle class behavior"? it sounds interesting. First what is a working class salary and second what do you consider to be middle class behavior?

Ah okidoke well within the UK there has been (though not accurate now) clear thresholds almost on what salary makes you what class. I think for a while a middle class salary was £38k per year before tax. Anything under that was working class and a majority of the population.

When I say middle class behaviour I also mean that with a very London centric view. There's ways that class attitudes manifest itself in different areas within the UK. Usually it's this Bourdieu (if that's how you spell it) idea of alignment with upperclass ideals and valuing free time and what you do. So I mean it excursions as in like going to museums and enjoying the traditional arts, the ability to go to restaurants (things like that).

Language also makes a large part of it. The middle class, when/if it existed, distanced themselves from the working class in the way the spoke too.

But that leads me to what I said, because of that £38k threshold a lot of people are not actually middle class. Instead, they carry those beliefs and behaviours to align themselves with a class they are not in. Classism in the UK is a sport and distancing yourself from the working class is what a lot of people in the past strived to do. So a lot of people try their best to indulge in this expensive lifestyle with the little that they have.

But saying that, working class culture is more distinctive in how they (we) want to galavant money. Rather than having beliefs of an upper class it's rejected and instead people (by making poor financial decisions) obtain luxury goods to be given that same respect. But saying that those luxury goods are "loud" and usually a signal to other working class people.

If this makes sense? I think I elaborated as much as I could, it's 06:57am so idek if this makes sense, but thanks for your q innit

[jakeperalta]

I’d say that’s the case most of the time when joking about a country/culture you’re not a part of. It’s based in stereotypes, look at how the West jokes about Asian or African countries. Look at the Mexican food episode of GBBO! British jokes about the US is typically making fun of the lifestyle of lower income Americans. Idk who is making bad British teeth jokes in the year of our lord 2022 but most of the memes I see about Britain are making fun of the royals.

I mean yeah but given that I'm british I can only speak to the british stereotypes that are heavily tied to classism, it's not a british specific thing at all that's just what I know. jokes about the monarchy etc are obviously popular but also a separate (and not bad) thing, I think op's point was much more focused on things like accent jokes ("bri ish" "innit" whatever that water bottle spelling is – none of these are RP pronunciations, they're the kind of thing that would be looked down upon by plenty of people here) or "british people eat like they're still at war with germany" when the food is something like beans on toast

[mjjune]

Happy WBW! What part of your world would your protagonist (& others if you want) change? Aaaand go! ♥️

i'll do twtr because in avof, that's like.. the entire plot? LOL

in twtr, there is a lot of... magical racism? magical classism? it's not specifically labeled, but that is something that both MCs would like to change, it's just that one MC doesn't take it upon himself to change it whereas the second one does.

but both the woodsman and red would like to live in a world with magic being accepted, not banned. it's just that the woodsman's answer to this (and to... most problems that arise in the book...) is to run, and red's is to-- well, that's spoilers, innit 😉

[adhdo5]

The trap card is that Clef can't be promoting classism. 's from Cornwall innit

[sneefsnorf]

i think everyone who makes beans on toast innit luv jokes should be forced to spend a month living with some working class people in sheffield they clearly need the classism shocked out of them by tiny households that cant afford heating or food

[emzular]

jason vs billy, some thoughts.

tldr: jason wanted to kill eddie in cold blood, vs billy who was only violent because violence and abuse are all he's ever known.

i'll start by saying that when it comes to 80s tropey high school bullies, jason fits the bill perfectly. he's the jock, the cool rich guy. he's what steve was meant to be in season one. jason is your basic, white, rich school jock bully.

billy's different. he's a metal head and he doesn't conform to the sleepy town aesthetic of hawkins at all. he struts in, double denim, thick boots, curly long hair, rock music blaring loud as fuck. billy hargrove instantly doesn't look like the jock bully stereotype. he's the metalhead outsider, the new kid. but he tries to fit into the jock mould all the same. he plays basketball, he goes to the parties, he flirts with all the women, he fights king steve to be the top dog. because that's how he survives. his dad abuses him, we know that, but if billy has 'friends' and sports and parties and a reputation as the popular guy to uphold, maybe his dad won't end him. so billy plays the bully. and it's easy because he was raised by one. it's easy to play that role.

then again, it's likely easy for jason to play his role too. his dad was probably the popular guy at school, and he grew up rich. well off. of course jason's going to be popular, of course he's going to be a jock. but where billy's trying to fit the mould, jason is the mould. you can see that billy's trying to fit in by the way he practises his smiles, and his lines in the mirror. he's trying to be this perfect image. whereas jason already is.

anyway, jason goes on a rampage across hawkins, starts accusing literal children of satanism and accuses eddie of being a cult leader, all because his girlfriend died. and while that's heartbreaking as fuck for jason, his girlfriend died and he went crazy. jason wanted to kill eddie and the hellfire club. the worst thing in jason's life is that his girlfriend was hanging around with a potential satanist, and he decided he wanted to commit murder.

the worst thing in billy's life? pick one. he's abused by his dad, controlled by his dad, forced to live under his dad's strict rules; and then he's captured by the mind flayer, abused and used and controlled by the mind flayer until billy literally kills himself because it's the only way out. billy never wanted to kill anyone - yes in season 2 he makes comments, says he'll kill them, but he wouldn't. he's a seventeen year old angry hurt boy, and he's lashing out. he wanted to hurt, but that's because he was being hurt. he wanted the easy life he thought king steve had, he wanted the friends that max had, he wanted what everyone else had. but he never wanted to kill anyone, even if he said it. you can see his threats were just an excuse to throw fists (because fists is all he knows, from his father). he never started a witch hunt:

that was jason.

so tell me how the rich, easy life jock boy jason is better than the poor abused and tortured new kid? tell me why billy deserves to be vilified and called the worst villain in the show, when all of his actions stem to the fact that his father beats him up? jason became unhinged so fucking fast, because his perfect life and his perfect girlfriend was taken from him.

jason fought lucas in the end, literally encouraged the witch hunt of a group of kids. he was not going to stop. he did to lucas exactly what billy did in season two. but where jason is somehow "understandable" in his actions because his girlfriend died, billy isn't? billy found his thirteen year old sister in a strangers house with a bunch of boys, one of them being his own age; tell me he's not got a reason to be angry.

and hey: jason wanted eddie to die. he wanted to fight him and to kill him. jason wound up the entire town, and got a bunch of his friends together, convinced them to tag along in his murderous quest. jason was willing to commit murder.

billy never would've taken it that far. he got close, in season 2 with the fight at the end, but he's not a murderer. he didn't go there intending to kill steve, or lucas. he went there (weaponless) to get his kid sister back home. unlike jason, who went to the house in season 4 with the intention to kill.

billy was just looking for his sister, and found steve, an eighteen year old guy, with his thirteen year old sister. of course he fought. but jason? jason went after eddie with the intention to harm.

look at jason and his gang in season 4, vs billy and his in season 3.

jason rounded up a gang, got weapons, and was ready to kill eddie. billy was being mind controlled and abused the entire time. he didn't have any part to play in the villainy of season 3. but jason? in season 4? that was all him.

it reeks of classism, you know? going crazy/bloodthirsty for love vs finding your kid sister in the middle of the night with an adult male is not the same motive: one has privilege, the other does not. and also, jason does what he does by choice. billy never had a choice, he’s abused and mind controlled. jason chose and had the freedom to turn on eddie and to spread hate against him. billy was being told what to do by his father and then the mind flayer. billy was not acting of his own wishes. but jason was.

at the root of jason, is someone willing to kill.

at the root of billy, is someone willing to be killed.

and saying billy is worse than jason, saying billy is worse than someone who wanted to kill someone is saying that anyone who's trauma comes out in a way that isn't deemed "perfect" or "normal" is a villain. anyone who doesn't "fit the mould" of society like jason does, is a monster, and deserves to die.