#chrono crossing

[autopotion]

CC is trying to do something different and I actively admire the game for that, but I don't think it all totally coalesces (long post incoming lol)

Like, it came out at the end of the 90s, which was a decade rich in console RPGs that established the formula, and it's a sequel to a game that is widely considered to be the best JRPG ever made. CC had to do some new stuff to differentiate itself. Instead of a tight party of 6 to 8 characters that doesn't really change from playthrough to playthrough, you get an enormous but less developed crew of 45 across different playthroughs. Instead of a huge world map, your exploration is limited to a compact (and very beautiful) archipelago. Standard leveling and experience points have been discarded in favor of boss-triggered stat boosts. The whole element system, which I'm not gonna go into detail about, forces you to strategize for battles in particular ways (i.e. it's actually good to use elements in lots of battles as opposed to conserving them because they're not tied to MP). On the whole I like that CC is trying something else. I respect its weirdness a lot.

But I do feel like there are places where CC doesn't commit to its own bit? Like it gets mired in the gameplay conventions it's attempting to subvert, so its fresh new ideas don't always pay off.

For instance, re: the stat boosts: everyone gets a big stat boost after most boss fights, right? And after the boss, there's a limited time in which you can gather smaller stat boosts for the rest of your party (after 5-10 battles, you'll stop getting boosts until the next star level). Without proper experience points, those smaller stat boosts are the impetus for engaging with random battles (outside of, like, element farming). They're also pretty important; CC's numbers don't go high, so every point matters. It's good practice to seek out these mini boosts. After you get all of your boosts, there isn't much point to seeking out random battles until after the next boss.

But IMO a lot of the dungeons in CC are built on the classic JRPG dungeon philosophy, which centers on experience-based leveling. You fight your way through a slightly difficult area to challenge the boss, rinse and repeat. Except if you did any sidequesting or element farming between dungeons and didn't gain a star level, the initial trek through the dungeon feels completely pointless. Since enemies (standing in for battles) are visibly rendered on the overworld, you can theoretically avoid them, but tight corridors often make that difficult or impossible... so in practice, between bosses, you wind up fighting a lot of battles that have very little material gain, except for some gold and items. You can waste 5+ minutes fighting a particularly difficult random battle and have very little to show for it.

This is in addition to CC's charming quirk of boss-stacking, where one will come shortly after another at the end of a dungeon. If you move directly between these bosses, you will miss out on the between-star level stat boosts. So what you should really be doing is retreating back into the dungeon, fighting those same random battles you had to slog through on the way here for the mini stat boosts (and switching out your party btw if you want anyone you're not maining to benefit, which could throw a wrench into your party planning because, if you're like me, you build your parties based on the kind of dungeon you're in).

So dungeon-crawling in CC, if you enter one immediately after gaining the previous star level, looks like this:

Arrange a party for the dungeon -> Fight your way through and get your minor stat boosts -> Go pack to a save point to rearrange your party to get more -> Go back to your original party, which is fully boosted, and progress to the boss, fighting more (now pointless) battles on the way -> Fight the boss -> If there's another boss, go back into the dungeon to get your minor stat boosts (assuming it lets you), then face the next boss -> Proceed to the next dungeon

Like dungeon-crawling ends up taking SO MUCH time, even more than your average 90s console RPG with random battles, and the rewards are fleeting! Random battles already have problems (they're overused in the average console RPG) but it's a guarantee you'll walk out of a battle with more experience than you had going in. Not so in CC.

The crucial difference is that in something like FFVII, for example (which has a lot in common w/ CC re: materia placement & element grids), dungeon design is all about leveling yourself up to face the next boss. The experience comes from practicing on the mooks and pipsqueaks before taking on the real thing. CC totally reversed the leveling expectations, where you get the most out of fighting bosses, not random encounters, but didn't similarly reverse encounter design. It's kind of crazy.

Like if it were me, I would actually station one boss at the beginning of every CC dungeon, and one at the end. That way the random encounters are designed around maximizing the gains from the immediately preceding boss, and you don't have to worry about fighting a ton of pointless battles if you were just off sidequesting elsewhere. Also I would lower the encounter rate significantly, but that's just me.

But yeah this is without even going into how your massive rotating party complicates this too (like constantly reassigning elements if you're swapping folks out to get the minor boosts). IMO I don't feel like the huge party is necessarily a bad thing--I think the average CC player who is not using a guide will have far fewer party members to work with than someone like me, who is very anal about not missing things in 90s RPGs--but it's just another way that the leveling system works against you.

IN SUM I think CC had a ton of cool ideas that didn't get enough time in the oven because they didn't think about changing the basic structure of a dungeon in addition to their leveling scheme, which is a huge oversight because dungeon structure informs how you level, if that makes sense. Anyway thanks for coming to my TedTalk

[artistichermit]

I call this mess my Chrono Cross brainrot mixed with Minecraft block people.

Anyway, the context is I just wanted Bedrock Bros, and then Phil snuck in there after I remembered how sad I was that Lynx's connection to Serge just got a passing mention.

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[prokopetz]

I don't think any video game I've ever played that tries to deliberately play up the "liminal spaces" angle has ever achieved even a quarter the liminality captured by sheer accident in the act of backtracking in a certain brand of late 1990s to early 2000s console RPGs.

You know the ones – from that era where the idea of linear, event-driven stories had just caught on, but the practice of putting the world map itself on rails wasn't yet de rigeur, so you could in theory revisit anyplace you'd ever been, including the areas that literally only existed for the purpose of one specific setpiece.

When you returned to such an area, all of the monsters and NPCs would be gone, and there'd be no music or audio ambience because no non-event-related soundtrack for that area had ever been written, which made the game's regular sound effects seem conspicuously louder. Just wandering around in this empty, silent backdrop; maybe you'd run into an NPC the devs forgot to dummy out who still acts like the event is ongoing, repeating now-contextless lines of dialogue and gesturing frantically at thin air. Maybe you'd stumble upon a treasure chest you missed the first time around, and the "item get" jingle would crack like a gunshot. Maybe there'd even be a room where the devs neglected to unset the event flag, and you'd suddenly be assailed by pulse-pounding techno heralding the approach of nothing at all.

Like, forget the Backrooms – give me a game that plays with that.

[figurecollection]

Tsukuyomi Garage Kit by Seikoro Caramel, from Chrono Cross

[vgadvisor]

[playstationpark]

'Chrono Cross' was released on the PlayStation 25 years ago today in Japan. Support us on Patreon

[acquired-stardust]

Chrono Cross Playstation 1999

[kolaepup]

エイラ Ayla from Chrono Trigger

Fanart painting :3!

[saltycatfish]

[nokomento]

me trying to channel to spirit of jsh’s line work lmao

dawntrail’s theming makes me think of chrono cross and ff10 my faves

i was hoping viper played like Serge’s bladed boat oars but it didn’t seem to😆

[autopotion]

I like collecting characters but I have to admit I'm starting to find CC's cast overwhelming lol. Fully committed to just leveling up my favorites aka Razzly & Kid (and maybe also Leena, Guile, and the scary pink beast)

[artistichermit]

The Chrono Cross brainrot mixed with Minecraft block people continues. It's still not over, I've got a bit left floating around in the ol' noggin.

Anyway, spoilers (kinda. Just for a major plot point and nothing else. This is a crossover AU after all.) for Chrono Cross beyond this point.

So anyway, everyone is having an awful time, except for Phil.

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[mevil]