#cause i dont wanna debate and i dont think negativity about characters belongs in the tags

[senseiwu]

From what I can tell the reason why so many people in the fandom latched onto Ronin is bc he easily would have fit into the wildly popular trope of 'gruff morally grey selfish world wise loner who only wants money has the walls around his heart worn down by getting roped into the shenanigans of a magical child with parent issues and realizes too late that he now cares about said children more than he has about anything since his tragic backstory happened', but the writers for whatever reason didn't commit to that trope fully, leaving Ronin in a weird limbo between 'enemy turned trusted ally and pseudo-parental figure with some morally dubious habits played for laughs' (helping the Ninja to his own detriment even after his betrayal in S5, teaming up with Jay and the others to fight Nadakhan in the final fight of S6(if you count S6 at all which I personally don't since it was all erased), being trusted enough to help the team move into their new base and dragging Nya out of a fight she couldn't win instead of leaving her to save himself in S7, all of his involvement in the Wu's Teas shorts which are totally cannon and Tommy can fight me over that) and 'mid-level scumbag the main characters deal with when the world isn't about to end' (literally hunting the ninja and hacking Zane in a horror movie worth scene in S6 (again, if you count S6 as relevant to anything after it), his whole thing in S14 and the out of nowhere animosity Lloyd and the rest of the team had for him despite his last appearance being him getting injured to help them fight the Vermilion (not saying he didn't do anything to earn that animosity in between appearances, but to my knowledge his only other appearance was getting caught by the SoG in S9. I haven't seen all of S12 or S13 tho, so I could have easily missed something).

Another huge contributing factor in much of his fandom love was that the 'magical child with parent issues' he seemed to be connecting with was Nya right when it was revealed that she had powers all along and was basically neglected by all the adults in her life who knew and could have told her, which felt like even more of a kick in the teeth since the entire reason she became Samurai X was bc she felt left behind by the guys and useless stuck on the Bounty not being a real member of the team. Combine that with Wu's kind of cryptic and indirect way of teaching her with the bucket thing not being a very good way of teaching the typically straightforward Nya, and Ronin coming in and being able to help her progress with her powers more quickly really seemed to lean into Ronin fitting into the 'unintentional and massively under-qualified but mostly well meaning father figure/crime uncle' trope (just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say Ronin is a better teacher than Wu in any way, just that Nya seemed to figure things out better with being directly told to look at things a different way than with the bucket thing which I don't think will ever not bug me)

And, in a way, Ronin in S14 was both in character and out of character, since him being an ally or the villain of the day seems to be decided by a coin flip. It's like Schrodinger's characterization.

But yeah, tl;dr all of the appeal of Ronin as a character is that he had the potential to fit into a popular trope, the fandom took that and ran with it, and then for whatever reason the writers didn't commit to that trope but by that point he had been firmly cemented in the minds of many fans as 'crime uncle'. But that's just what I think happened

That makes sense, I s'pose. I'm not gonna be mad at people for liking him, he's just a fictional character, but I just.... can't bring myself to. I do appreciate that he has helped out, of course. That was very good of him (and yes, I do count Skybound as relevant. Even if the events got erased, they still acted how they would have, if that makes sense?). But I'm not usually a fan of morally grey characters, with a few exceptions (Morro and the main Sky Pirates other than Nadakhan, I don't know if Glutinous counts) I generally love the good guys. And I just... I can't get past the thing with how he was gonna take the sword, and ESPECIALLY not that freaking scene with Zane. That was horrifying to watch, and had it happened anywhere other than Skybound, I wouldn't blame Zane if he never trusted Ronin again. And then there's the part where he may have brought Zane and Pixal to Chen.... (I know that's not canon, it's from Shadow of Ronin, but...... Zane... my boy...)

It's interesting to see how he might play into a story, but that's about it for me, personally.

[knightofbalance-13]

https://blakebelladork.tumblr.com/post/165328150095/if-its-not-nice-dont-criticize-it-you-have-to

Yeah, Nice Strawman. Wanna try debating  real person?

”If it’s not nice don’t criticize it! You have to say it gently!”

That’s the stupidest thing anyone can ever say about anything.

You’re right... too bad NO ONE has said that.

What you are doin is building a strawman of what I have said in the past which is “You need to say something good about a show to truly criticize it.”

Notice how I don’t say “only something good.”

Because you can say bad things about a show. But only saying bad things all the god damn time about whatever you “criticism” (Which is the RWDE tag’s modius operande) You are not a critic: You’re a hater. Even people like Doug Walker have said good things about movies or had positive reviews. I have NEVER seen anything positive in the RWDE tag. Ever. And no, the whole “it’s a tag for negativity” has no excuse here. Criticism (as in, PROFESSIONAL criticism) is inherently neutral and not meant to be negative 100% of the time. If it were, people wouldn’t take any reviews seriously.

So nice try with the Strawman but all it does is make you look pathetic.

Think of RVVBY as a person. If you go up to it and baby it the whole time saying there’s nothing wrong with what’s happening in the story and it is perfectly fine how it is, it’s most likely not gonna change and it’ll think that every form of criticism is an attack against it.

Too bad that’s not what’s going on. What you are doing is freaking at the show for making the tiniest of mistakes, mistakes which I have SEEN people look over in other shows, and never giving it praise for what it does right. Hell, most of the time people in the RWDE tag construe everything positive as negative and blame the show for faults that aren’t even there. Speaking as someone who has had this happen to them, let me tell you: it causes severe mental issues and fucks people up.

With you people, it isn’t about criticism: It’s about CONTROL. You want to control the show so you deride for anything you don’t like, ignoring how criticism and personal opinion are NOT mutual inclusive, because things aren’t going the way you want them.     

When Miles had asked for Nice Things my head was spinning. If I had a popular show like he did I would be desperate for fans’ opinions and criticisms so I know what needs to be fixed. I’m not going to bend at their will if they ask for like, I dunno, a ship to become canon because relationships take time and development, and in order for that to happen, the chracters in the ship need development and sensible interaction. Which is something RVVBY hasn’t done yet but you know what let’s move on.

See, right there. The characters have had sensible interactions with each other. Hell, Ruby and Blake remind me of myself and how I interact with people. What you are doing is exactly the problem: You REFUSE to say one good thing about the show. If all you do is bitch: Then how are they suppose to know what to do? Massive amount of negativity only leads to anger and frustration. Once again, talking from personal experience.

Also, when did Miles ask for Nice Things? The RTX panel? Gee, not like a certain group of shippers just got pissy and attacked Jeff and Arryn so Miles probably doesn’t want a repeat. Also, that disproves your statement about ships so good jb: facts contradict you.

You’re right, RVVBY does not belong to us. I’m sure that many people in this tag love RVVBY as much as I do, but we aren’t so willing to ignore its many.. many.. oh so many problems. If the RWDE tag is so bothersome to you because people like me are in it, blacklist it. Don’t even enter it to begin with. Live in the bliss of ignorance.

Fuck you.

You people don’t love RWBY at all, you love control. You’re all a bunch of fragile egotistical control freaks who can’t comprehend that maybe, just because YOU don’t like something, the problem si with you. Because you can say nothing but bad things about something and when the possibility of getting a geninuine compliment out of you is lower than getting Satan to stop being a dick: YOU DON’T LOVE IT.

You’re plea for “ignorance” is less you giving advice and you asking people to not look when you try to abuse the showrunners and the fans.

I am sick and tired of this abusive relationship people like you have with creators and fandoms. I have here a list of examples so why don’t I go ahead and read off some of this huh? 

A Japanese voice actor had to stop making image songs because so many “fans” kept bitching about his singing voice.

A founder of Studio Gainax was forced to leave because one episode of an anime was off-model and his ”fans” bombarded him.

Hideaki Anno was driven to depression by his “fans” sent him DEATH THREATS over an ending.

Voltron had a “fan” BLACKMAIL the studio with storyboard photos (which could get the whole team FIRED).

Tokyo Ghoul’s creator got suicide baited by his “fans” for making aship canon.

Samurai Jack got derided for “Compulsory Heterosexuality” for having an in-canon relationship.

Dream Daddy had an artist being attacked over a fanart and the creators ahd to stop their “fans”.

And Steven Universe? Where do I begin? Driving an artist to suicide? Implying that a show creator was racist? Attacking Rebecca Sugar and OUTRIGHT FORCING HER TO APOLOGIZE FOR IT?

And all of these fandoms all displayed the same symptoms of the RWDE tag. Fucking hell, Voltron and SU have “critical” tags that pull this shit regularly. And bad enough: Some of you assholes acknowledge that they do this without seeing what you are doing.

So excuse me if I don’t want the RWBY fandom to become shit like the rest. And excuse me if I don’t trust people who have shown signs of Psychopathy and Domestic Abusers.