#cath muighe tuireadh

[irelandseyeonmythology]

(Michéal Ó Hoyne, "The Political Context of Cath Muighe Tuireadh, The Early Modern Irish Version of the Second Battle of Magh Tuireadh" and The First Recension of the Táin, Cecile O'Rahily)

Do you ever think that Nuada wished that Lugh would have a son who was just as much of a glory hound as he'd been and then had a good cackle from wherever he was spending his afterlife when Cú Chulainn was born?

[margridarnauds]

💞 and 🦅? <3333

💞 Who's your comfort character?

Oh, God, I've had so many over the years, and all of them are still hanging around in my mind. For non-OCs:

Ronan Mazurier and Lazare de Peyrol (1789), Margrid Arnaud (Marie Antoinette), Escalus (Romeo and Juliet), Blodeuedd (Mabinogi), Heisenberg and Donna Resident Evil 8, and most recently, Raphael BG3. I THINK, of all of them, I've put more of myself into Lazare, Margrid, and Raphael, in various ways (NO, I AM *NOT* GOING TO STEAL THE CROWN OF KARSUS.) My very first comfort character was probably Ankh-Su-Namun The Mummy, love of my life, light of my life, did nothing wrong.

And, of course, it almost goes without saying, Bres and Sreng (Cath Maige Tuired/Cath Muighe Tuireadh Cunga), as well as a couple of other characters who I'm not going to list because they are SO ridiculously minor and their status as a comfort character is due to a long series of headcanons. Honestly, Lugh to a certain extent, in the sense that, whenever I write Lugh, I do put a lot of myself into him, even though it isn't in the way that a lot of people put a lot of themselves into him when they project onto him.

🦅 Do you outline fics or fly by the seat of your pants?

I hate outlining, as a rule, especially since it means that things are almost never completed. Like, second I try to outline it, my brain goes "nope, we're done here". I sometimes do HAVE to for larger projects -- Like, the Thing for BG3 requires me to remember roughly what my characters were doing at a given point, so I have a small document where I give a day by day breakdown of what they were doing, but, in general, I have a few key scenes and then build a fic around them organically, trying to connect A to B to C in a way that organically works for the characters. (It's AMAZING I've never done a "Five Times, One Time" fic because it's honestly in many ways my ideal style of plotting something.)

[the-raging-demon]

CROWS REPRESENT MESSAGES FROM THE SPIRIT REALM, THAT IS, MESSAGES FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE AND CROWS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH AND REPRESENT DEATH AND CHANGE.

THE HOODED CROW IS NATIVE TO EGYPT AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD SUCH AS EUROPE.

THE HOODED CROW LAYS BROWN SPECKLED BLUE EGGS IN NESTS FROM NATIVE SEA WEEDS.

IN EGYPT, THEY MIGRATE THERE BEFORE-HAND TO LAY THEIR EGGS BY LATE FEBURARY DUE TO IT BEING THE HARSHEST AND COLDEST MONTH OUT OF THE YEAR--THE MATING SEASON BEGINNING IN EARLY FEBURARY THROUGHOUT VALENTINES DAY IN THE WESTERN COUNTRIES--WHICH HATCH BY TIME IN EARLY APRIL (SPRING).

THE HOODED CROW IS THE CLOSEST RELATIVE TO THE CARRION CROW AND BOTH HAVE IDENTICAL CALLS AND BEHAVIORAL CHARACTERISTICS.

"In Irish folklore, the bird appears on the shoulder of the dying Cú Chulainn, and could also be a manifestation of the Morrígan, the wife of Tethra, or the Cailleach. This idea has persisted, and the hooded crow is associated with fairies in the Scottish highlands and Ireland; in the 18th century, Scottish shepherds would make offerings to them to keep them from attacking sheep."

-- Wikipedia

"In Irish mythology, Tethra of the Fomorians ruled Mag Mell after dying in the Second Battle of Mag Tuiredh. After the battle, his sword, Orna, was taken by Ogma and it then recounted everything it had done."

-- Wikipedia

"The First Battle of Mag Tuired

The first text, sometimes called Cét-chath Maige Tuired ("The First Battle of Mag Tuired") or Cath Maighe Tuireadh Cunga ("The Battle of Mag Tuired Conga") or Cath Maighe Tuireadh Theas ("The Battle of Southern Mag Tuired"), relates how the Tuatha Dé Danann took Ireland from the Fir Bolg, who then inhabited the island. It begins with the children of Nemed, an earlier group of inhabitants of Ireland, leaving for Greece to escape their oppression by the Fomorians. A group of Nemed's descendants, the Fir Bolg, return to Ireland and conquer it, occupying it for thirty years until the coming of the Tuatha Dé Danann, another group of Nemed's descendants.

The Tuatha Dé Danann, led by their king, Nuada, come to Ireland in three hundred ships from the islands of the north. Their arrival is foreseen in a dream by the Fir Bolg king, Eochaid mac Eirc. When they land, they burn their ships. Negotiations begin between Sreng, the champion of the Fir Bolg, and Bres of the Tuatha Dé Danann, and Bres demands that the Fir Bolg either give battle or cede half of Ireland to them. The Fir Bolg choose battle. After a delay to prepare weapons, they met at the Pass of Balgatan, and the battle rages for four days. Nuada encounters Sreng, and with one swing of his sword Sreng cuts off Nuada's right hand. However, the Tuatha Dé Danann gain the ascendancy. A truce is called, and the Fir Bolg are given three options: leave Ireland, share the land with the Tuatha Dé Danann, or continue the battle. They choose to fight. Sreng challenges Nuada to single combat. Nuada accepts on the condition that Sreng ties up one arm to make the combat fair, but Sreng rejects this condition. The Tuatha Dé Danann then decide to offer the Fir Bolg one of the provinces of Ireland. Sreng chooses Cóiced Ol nEchmacht, and the two sides make peace.

Dian Cecht, the god of physicians, made an artificial hand of silver for Nuada, and Nuada was named Nuada Airgetlám (Nuada of the Silver Hand). However, the goddess Brigid had told the Tuatha Dé Danann that no-one with a blemish can rule them, and, having lost a hand, the Tuatha Dé Danann had to choose another king. They chose Bres, son of Elatha, king of the Fomorians or the Children of Domnu. Seven years later Bres dies after taking a drink while hunting, and Nuada, having had his arm replaced, is restored.

The First Battle is distinguished from the Second as, the Battle of Muigh Tuiredh Conga or the Battle of Southern Moytura.

The Second Battle of Mag Tuired

The second text of this name, also known as Cath Dédenach Maige Tuired ("The Last Battle of Mag Tuired"), Cath Tánaiste Maige Tuired ("The Second Battle of Mag Tuired"), and Cath Maighe Tuireadh Thúaidh ("The Battle of Northern Mag Tuired"), tells how the Tuatha Dé Danann, having conquered Ireland, fall under the oppression of the Fomorians, and then fight a battle to free themselves from this oppression. It expands on references to the battle in Lebor Gabála Érenn and the Irish Annals, and is one of the richest sources of tales of the former Irish gods. It is found in a 16th-century manuscript, but is believed to be a composite work compiled in the 12th century from 9th century material.

It begins with a brief account of the first battle, the loss of Nuada's arm, and his replacement as king by Bres, and then tells how Bres was conceived from a union between Ériu of the Tuatha Dé Danann and Elatha of the Fomorians. Because of his ancestry Bres oppressed the Tuatha Dé Danann, making the noblest of them do menial work, imposing heavy tribute, and failing to show the level of hospitality expected of a king. He is deposed as king, and Nuada, who has had his arm replaced with one of silver by the physician Dian Cecht (whose son Miach caused flesh to grow over it), is restored. Bres appeals for assistance from the Fomorians to take back the kingship, and although his father Elatha refuses, another Fomorian leader, Balor of the Evil Eye, agrees to help him and raises a huge army. Meanwhile, Lugh, another product of a Tuatha Dé Danann and Fomorian union, arrives at Nuada's court, and, after impressing the king with his many talents, is given command of the Tuatha Dé Danann. Nuada is killed by Balor in the battle, but Lugh, Balor's grandson, kills the Fomorian leader with his sling, smashing his deadly eye through the back of his head where it wreaks havoc on the Fomorian ranks. Bres is found alive in the aftermath of the battle, and is spared on the condition that he teach the Tuatha Dé Danann how to plough, sow and reap. Finally, Lugh, the Dagda and Ogma rescue the Dagda's harp, Uaithne, which had been captured by the retreating Fomorians."

-- Wikipedia

Bres is no doubt KRONOS because The Fomorians are Jötunns in comparison with Norse Mythology and Titans/Giants in comparison with Greek Mythology. Bres is The Egyptian God Set!

King Balor of The Evil Eye is Re since Re is associated with The Evil Eye in Egypt, Re's eye being none other than Sekhmet who is Hathor, Bastet, Isis, and Ma'at who became Taweret and Apophis!

TETHRA IS DUMUZID WHO IS ADONIS WHOM BECOMES EROS AS ONE OF HIS ASPECTS AND EROS IS SET.

TETHRA IS OSIRIS.

"The Cattle of Tethra

Who tells the ages of the moon, if not I?

Who shows the place where the sun goes to rest, if not I?

Who calls the cattle from the House of Tethra?

On whom do the cattle of Tethra smile?

This comes from the Irish poem The Song of Amairgen. It was sung by the ollamh (poet) named Amairgen Glúingel as he first set foot on Irish soil. (He was one of the Milesians, who conquered Ireland after the Tuatha de Danann.) It is certainly an enigmatic verse, but I will just tackle one riddle in this post: what are the cattle of Tethra?

In The White Goddess, Graves interprets this passage as meaning that the “cattle of Tethra” are the planets, since they rise from the sea and wander through the sky. However, the same phrase can also mean “fish”, as when Cú Chulainn woos Emer in the Tochmarc Emire (The Wooing of Emer), and as part of their riddling discourse, he tells her he has slept in the house of him who hunts the “cattle of Tethra” – a fisherman’s hut.

That the next verse of Amairgen’s poem says

Sea full of fish,

an awesome land,

bursting forth of fish,

full of fish there under wave,

with flights of birds,

broad [sea] of beasts,

………………………………,

bursting forth of fish,

sea full of fish.

would suggest he was more focused on dinner than the heavens. (It reminds me of the story about John Cabot dipping baskets in the sea to catch fish in Newfoundland.)

Both the fish in the sea and the stars in the sky have done duty as a sign for infinity, or countless many. Genesis 26:4 has God telling Isaac:

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (King James Version)

See Gen. 22:17 for the original promise to Abraham, after the sacrifice of Isaac was averted. (Isaac no doubt remembered the event vividly.)

The OBOD site states that the cattle are indeed the stars of the sky, and the “bearing away” is a reflection of the cattle-raiding so common among the Irish. It may be natural for otherworldly cattle to come out to pasture at night, and go home to rest at dawn, since Irish otherworlds frequently invert earthly expectations.

There may also be an echo of Greek myth here: both the sun-god Helios and the sea-god Poseidon had sacred herds of cattle., as well as Apollo. (Hermes stole Apollo’s cattle, and ate them, but bought off his step-brother with his new invention, the lyre.) Maybe Tethra’s cattle can be either celestial or marine in nature. (Note Jehovah mentions grains of sand as well as stars, while Tethra has either fish or stars. Different environments.)

In fact, if the “cattle of Tethra” is a phrase with two different meanings, it might reflect the nature of Tethra himself. He was one of the Fomorians, who occupy the same place in Irish myth as the Jötnar in Norse and the Titans in Greek myth. They are the ancestors of the gods, or in the Fomorians’ case, the ones who were there first. He seems to have been a sea-god, who ruled over a paradisiacal otherworld. (Rather like the later Manannan mac Lir.)

We know about his role as ruler of the afterworld (like the Greek Hades) from the story of Conla Ruadh. He was the brother of the king of Ireland, and one day a faery woman appeared to him and invited him to join her at Mag Mell (Land of Honey), one of the many names for the otherworld. He refused, but she left him an apple, which he ate for a month, desiring no other food or drink. Then she returned, and asked him again to come and rule over the land of Tethra’s people. This time he gives in, and joins her.

Tethra is the ruler of the otherworld in another poem, spoken by Nede in the Immacallam in Dá Thúarad:

Not hard (to say): (to go) into the plain of age,

into the mountain of youth,

into the hunting of age,

into following a king (death?),

into an abode of clay,

between candle and fire,

between battle and horror,

among the mighty men of Tethra…

Although he seems from this verse to have been a warlike death-god.

A final mention of Tethra is equally indirect, and comes from the Second Battle of Magh Tuireadh, which was fought between the native Fomorian deities and the invading Tuatha de Danann. The poet-god and champion Ogma found Tethra’s sword, called Orna, and when he unsheathed it the sword began to relate all that had been done with it. Before the Tuatha came Tethra was one of three kings of the Fomorians, along with Balor of the Evil Eye and Elatha, son of Néit.

The name Tethra can mean “scald-crow” in Old Irish, the same crow as the goddess Badb. Cormac’s Glossary gives badb as a synonym for his name, while O’Cleary glosses it as muir, sea. Another name for the sea was the “plain of Tethra”. (MacCulloch: n. 1266) According to Whitley Stokes Badb was Tethra’s wife, although she is usually married to Néit. (Stokes: 130) A verse quoted by Spence explains why Badb and Tethra would be a good couple:

The wife of Tethra’s longing is for the fire of combat:

The warriors’ sides slashed open.

Blood, bodies heaped upon bodies,

Eyes without life, sundered heads,

those are pleasing words to her. (Spence: 82)

We can assume that whoever Tethra’s wife was, she shared Badb’s nature, along with those other scary goddesses, the Morrigan and Nemain.

So we have an Irish god whose name is glossed as “sea”, and who ruled the Fomorians. He presumably retreated after the battle, which may explain his later position as god of Magh Mell. We don’t know if he “died” on the field of battle at Magh Tuireadh, which would certainly qualify him for the job. It would not, however, seem to go with his surname, Boadach, “Victorious”.

Given the topsy-turvy nature of Irish otherworlds, the paradoxical references to his “cattle” as the stars or the fish in the sea may not be so incompatible as we would think. Both are symbols of plenty, and if we see the stars as coming up out of the sea and spreading across the sky, then returning home under the waves, then it makes a kind of sense.

Links:

A very good article on the nature of Tethra: http://threeshoutsonahilltop.blogspot.ca/2011/09/problem-of-tethra.html

A version of the Battle of Magh Tuiread: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T300011.html

References:

Ellis, Peter Beresford 1991: A Dictionary of Irish Mythology, OUP.

Ettlinger, E. 1945: “Magic Weapons in Celtic Legends,” Folklore 56, No. 3 (Sep., 1945): 295-307.

Hull, Eleanor 1901: “The Silver Bough in Irish Legend,” Folklore 12, No. 4 (Dec., 1901): 431-445.

Koch, John T. ed, and John Carey 2003: The Celtic Heroic Age: Literary Sources for Ancient Celtic Europe and Early Ireland and Wales, Celtic Studies Publications.

Maculloch, John 2012: The Religion of the Ancient Celts, Emereo Publishing. (Google eBook)

MacKillop, James 2004: Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, OUP.

Rhys, John 1891: “Manx Folk-Lore and Superstitions,” Folklore 2, No. 3 (Sep., 1891): 284-313.

Spence, Lewis 2012: The Magic Arts of Celtic Britain, Courier Corp. (Google eBook)

Stokes,Whitely 1891: “The Second Battle of Moytura,” Revue Celtique 12: 52-130. (Google eBook)"

--SOURCE: https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2015/04/18/cattle-tethra/

OF COURSE, TETHRA IS NOT HADES FOR HADES IS NERGAL WHO IS ARES, NERGAL LIKEWISE BEING ASHUR WHO IS MARDUK, NERGAL LIKEWISE ALSO BEING ENLIL WHO IS ENKI. ENLIL IS ZEUS.

KING NUADA OF THE TUATHA DANANN IS ZEUS!

Elatha is Thoth is all this for Thoth is Ningishzida and Ningishzida's son is Dumuzid who is Osiris and Dumuzid is Tammuz who is The Egyptian God Set.

SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THE EGYPTIAN GOD SET IS KRONOS.

KRONOS IS ANU IN THE ANCIENT SUMERIAN PATHEONS OF THE MIDDLE EAST. Anu had his phallus removed by Alalu who is ZEUS, meaning Alalu is ENLIL who is HORUS.

SO THIS PROVES THAT CROWS ORIGINALLY BELONG TO THOTH WHO IS HERMES, AND THE CAILLEACH IS NONE OTHER THAN HEKATE--WHICH MEANS HERMES AND HEKATE WERE ONCE A MARRIED COUPLE AND THOTH WAS MARRIED TO MA'AT WHO IS ATHENA IN THE ANCIENT GREEK PANTHEON WHO IS.... HEKATE!

ATHENA BECAME THE ARCH DEMON SAMAEL WHO WAS LUCIFER, SAMAEL LIKEWISE BEING AZAZEL WHO IS THE ORIGINAL EGYPTIAN GOD OF THE SUN NAMED RE WHO IS UTU AND APOLLO, THE NAME APOLLO MEANING "DESTROYER" WHICH FURTHER CONNECTS HIM TO LORD SHIVA WHO IS LOKI WHO IS LOPTR AND LAKI.

LOPTR IS BOTH HEKATE AND ECHIDNA DUE TO HIS ASSOCIATIONS WITH SPIDERS, ECHIDNA BEING TIAMAT WHO MARRIED TYPHON WHO IS ISHTARAN--THE NAME MEANING "THE TWO ISHTARS"--AND HE IS LORD SHIVA WHILST ALSO BEING THE MOON GOD KINGU IN THE STORY CALLED "THE ENUMA ELISH" WHERE IT DESCRIBES HOW ENLIL-- LATER VERSIONS SAY IT WAS MARDUK, TYING MARDUK AND ENLIL TOGETHER AS BEING ONE AND THE SAME-- DEFEATS ABSU AND THEN TIAMAT.

LAKI DERIVES FROM THE NAME OF GODDESS LAKSHMI, LAKI BEING HER ORIGINAL NAME, AND SHE IS ISHTAR WHO IS ISIS AND MA'AT WHO ARE APHRODITE AND ATHENA WHO ARE HEKATE!

SO, YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW WHO HEKATE IS!

SHE IS *NOT* ERESHKIGAL FOR ERESHKIGAL IS PERSEPHONE WHO IS SESHAT, NEPHTHYS, AND MUT WHO IS LIKEWISE ANPUT AND HER OWN DAUGHTER NAMED KEBECHET!

"Kebechet is a daughter of Anubis and his wife Anput. In the Pyramid Texts, Kebechet is referred to as a serpent who "refreshes and purifies" the pharaoh.

Kebechet was thought to give water to the spirits of the dead while they waited for the mummification process to be complete. She was probably related to mummification where she would fortify the body against corruption, so it would stay fresh for reanimation by the deceased's ka."

-- Wikipedia

And Ereshkigal is LILITH who is LAMASHTU.

Ereshkigal is also Ninlil who is Hera and Ereshkigal is SARPANIT who is the wife of MARDUK who is ARES, meaning SHE IS ENYO WHO IS ERIS: THE GODDESS OF STRIFE (SUFFERING) AND DISCORD (ENMITY) AND ARES... IS NERGAL WHO IS HADES!

The Morrigan is Hera and The Dagda is Zeus, meaning Nuada is... ENKI who is ODIN who is INDRA who is ZEUS and ENLIL!

NERGAL IS ABRAXAS, ABRAXAS IS RA WHO IS MARDUK!

MARDUK IS JEHOVA!

SARPANIT IS HIS OFFICIAL WIFE!

SARPANIT IS MARY MOTHER OF GOD!

JESUS CHRIST IS HORUS THE YOUNGER WHO BECAME RA WHO USURPED RE!

MEANING MARDUK IS THE NAZARENE AND THAT MEANS SARPANIT IS MARY MAGDALENE!

LILITH IS LEAH WHO IS LAYLA WHO IS LEILAH.

LEILAH IS THE GODDESS ANGEL OF PROTECTION WHO PROTECTS JEWISH HOMES AND FAMILIES AND ASSISTS THEM IN PROCREATION!

THERE!

YOU SEE IT NOW?

LILITH IS NOT A DEMON!

SHE DID MARRY JEHOVA!

SHE IS JEHOVA'S OFFICIAL WIFE!

SHE IS NOT ANAT!

SHE IS NOT ISHTAR!

SHE IS NOT INANNA!

SO GET THIS STUPID SHIT THAT SHE IS ASTARTE OUT OF YOUR GODDAMN HEADS FOR PETER'S SAKE!

THE NAME PETER MEANS "ROCK" WHICH DERIVES FROM MITHRA'S OWN ORIGINS SINCE HE MANIFESTED FROM A ROCK THAT IS STONE!

THE NAME HERMES LITERALLY MEANS "STONES"!

AND HERMES IS THOTH!

AND PETER ASSOCIATES WITH THE ZODIAC SIGN ARIES WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST SIGN IN ASTROLOGY!

THE AGE OF THE SHEEP BEING THE AGE WHERE MARDUK OVERTHREW TIAMAT AND HER DEMONS COMPLETELY AND THUS TOOK OVER AND JEHOVA!

TIAMAT IS "THE MOTHER OF ALL DEMONS", MEANING TIAMAT IS NAAMAH!

TIAMAT IS KI WHO IS GAIA, TIAMAT IS NAMMU WHO IS RHEA, AND TIAMAT IS NINHURSAG WHO IS METIS AND METIS COMMITTED SUICIDE AND THEN BECAME ATHENA WHO IS APHRODITE WHOM BOTH ARE ISHTAR WHO IS INANNA!

INANNA IS TAWERET!

INANNA IS ISHTARAN WHO IS APOPHIS!

APOPHIS IS LORD SHIVA!

AND THIS ALL MEANS WHAT IT MEANS...

ISIS WHO IS MA'AT IS... LOKI!

LOKI IS MEPHISTOPHELES!

RE IS APOLLO WHO IS PAN!

RE IS SEKHMET WHO IS ISIS!

MEPHISTOPHELES IS ALSO KNOWN AS "BLACK PHILIP!"

MEPHISTOPHELES IS THE KING OF THE CROSSROADS AND THE KING OF OTHER DEMONS WHO AFFILIATE WITH CROSSROADS, MEANING HE RULES OVER THEM.

THAT MEANS, YES, MEPHISTOPHELES IS HEKATE!

HEKATE RULES AND GOVERNS ALL THE CROSSROADS! ACCORDING TO ANCIENT GREEK SOURCES!

MEPHISTOPHELES IS A MAJOR CROSSROADS DEMON!

HE EVEN AFFILIATES WITH TRAINS AND RAILROAD TRACKS!

THOR'S FIRST WIFE WAS JARNSAXA BEFORE HE MARRIED SIF, SIF BEING HERA FOR THOR IS ZEUS!

JARNSAXA WAS A JÖTUNN!

KNOWING THIS, YOU KNOW WHAT BECAME OF HER AND WHY SHR SUDDENLY DISAPPEARED WITHOUT MENTION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO HER!

LOKI WAS BORN DURING HIS MOTHER'S DEATH WHEN ODIN KILLED HER!

ODIN IS ENKI AND ENKI WAS ENLIL AND IS ENLIL STILL!

ENLIL IS HORUS!

AND HATHOR DIED ACCORDING ANCIENT TO EGYPTIAN SOURCES!

AND HORUS MARRIED NEPHTHYS!

BES IS A NUBIAN (HEBREW) GOD, BES BEING PAZUZU WHOSE WIFE IS LAMASHTU!

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, PEOPLE, WAKE UP!

I LOVE YOU ALL WAY TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO STAY ASLEEP!

[irelandseyeonmythology]

Ok so I’m getting into the Fenian cycle and just read the palace/hostel of the quicken/Rowan trees, and I love it but there are a couple things that i’ve been trying to research to better understand it and I’m just not getting results. Who is the King of the World? The Lochlanns are the Fomorians, right? And where is the isle of the torrent?

Thank you for the ask! It's coming at a very opportune time as I've been diving into the world of the Fianna myself. (If you sent this to me a couple of years ago, I'd have been a little stumped even if I'd have done my best.)

So you sent this to me...ages ago, and I was at the Gaeltacht at the time, so I was typing up my response in Irish to be translated and. I. Went out of the window. And it hadn't been saved. And I was so depressed that I didn't want to go back to it until I had sufficiently mourned.

...but you can breathe a sigh of relief since, now that I'm no longer in the Gaeltacht, we are not bound by the custom of "when I'm there, I write only in Irish."

So, first off...let's go with Lochlann: What is Lochlann, who are the men of Lochlann? In Cath Maige Tuired, you're right, they're absolutely associated with the Fomoire, BUT! The reason why they're associated with the Fomoire is because there were real-life invaders from Lochlann, that is to say, Scandinavian or Scandinavian occupied territory (in CMT, the Fomoire are actually in what is today Scotland, Balor being situated on the Hebrides, which means that....yes....it is entirely possible to do a How to Train Your Dragon/CMT crossover if you desired. And yes, I have put too much thought into the logistics of that crossover, including the dangers of giving Bres access to a dragon.) The decision to situate the Fomoire on Lochlann was a political move, as a way of highlighting Ireland's political situation at the time it was composed. ("Lochlann" is still the modern name for Norway.)

In other texts, especially later texts, we see Lochlann often associated with far away, exotic, supernatural, and/or dangerous places, in the same way that Greece is often used to indicate someplace far away or exotic. (It makes sense -- how many Irish people living in, say, the 14th-15th century would have imagined traveling to Norway in the time before Aer Lingus?)

You can see this in, for example, the little known Late Middle/Early Modern Irish-ish (the dating is weird on this one) prosymetric text, "Aithed Emere (le Tuir nGlesta mac Rig Lochlann)", where Emer elopes with...Tuir Glesta, son of the King of "Lochlann". (Translated as "Norway" most of the time in descriptions, but I prefer keeping the term "Lochlann", because it's always the question of...is this the Real World Country, Lochlann, or is this the Cool Folklore Lochlann where Zany Adventures Happen, you know? I don't feel like "Norway" captures all of the different possibilities that the word implies.)

Now, since this, according to Thurneysen at least, didn't go back to before the 12th century, it was created well after CMT, well after the Battle of Clontarf and the final assimilation/ousting of the Vikings from Ireland. The Vikings are...chill by now. They aren't an active threat. So we have to ask ourselves: Why is Emer eloping with Tuir Glesta? It could be the result of an earlier tradition, sure, but I think it's more likely that we're not meant to think of Lochlann as "Fomoire land" or "Viking land", but "exotic, far away place for Cú Chulainn to voyage to in order to get his wife back." In Cath Muighe Tuireadh Cunga, there's a figure called "Aengaba of Lochlann", and there's no sign that he's a Fomoire, rather it seems that we're meant to view him as a sort of foreign champion. (It's interesting that in the Early Modern CMT, meanwhile, the Fomoire don't come from Lochlann, but from Africa. White supremacists have obviously gone ham with this but I've had at least one prominent person in the field suggest to me that it could be a means of drawing a Carthage-Rome dichotomy between the TDD and the Fomoire. And, of course, as I love to point out, if the Fomoire come from Africa = the Fomoire are black, then by that logic, Bres, Lugh, Fionn mac Cumhaill, the Dagda, Ogma, Bríg, Lír, Manannán, Emer, Cú Chulainn, Cairbre, Óengus, Bodb Dearg, etc. etc. etc. are all mixed race, which is a change I for one would be happy with but I suspect they would not be. Not that logic matters all that much to that crowd, especially since the only figures to routinely be presented as brown are Balor, Bres, Cethlenn, and the Fir Bolg, funny how that works.) And of course, when I was talking to a local on Tory Island, he said that the old people "confused the English for the Fomorians" (paraphrased) -- I don't believe the old people were confused at all, though, I believe that it only made sense for the Fomoire to become English, since they're always the people Over There, and Over There can be Lochlann, it can be Africa, and it can be England. Balor goes from being a Viking warlord to an English landlord, because why wouldn't he?

NOW, off of my soap box about the racist clusterfuck that is most adaptations of the Fir Bolg/Tuatha Dé/Fomoire rivalry and back to your question, Bruidhean (an) chaorthainn, "Hostel of the Rowan Trees", is about 15th/16th century in date, so we're looking well after the time the Vikings were a threat, so "Lochlann" here is very much Fun Zany Lochlann, not Actual Country Norway.

And we see this in a lot of Fionn Cycle tales, men from Lochlann opposing the Fianna, Fionn courting women in Lochlann and facing a series of trials, men from Lochlann imprisoning the Fianna in bruidhean tales. It's very much a trope, and it has next to nothing to do with the historical location. It's a place Over There, it's a place that has something our heroes need to get, or it's a place that is threatening what they already have. The people who live there are invariable dangerous, often supernatural, and more than a match for our heroes, even though they are, inevitably, overcome, though sometimes at great cost. The Men of Lochlann in these tales and the Fomoire have a lot in common, you could even argue that the Fomoire of CMT are even the Men of Lochlanns' literary great grandfathers, in the sense that it is, at least partially, a 9th century anxiety over Scandinavia that's been fossilized into the folklore up to the present, but they aren't the same, except for the fact that they both often represent the dark side of the supernatural, which the Tuatha Dé can often represent as well. (And indeed, as John Carey's argued, the difference between the TDD and the Fomoire is often minimal.) The Tuatha Dé and the Fomoire in and of themselves appear little in modern folkloric stories, at least....how they appear in the Mythological Cycle (indeed, Óengus is often relegated to being a wizard instead of a member of the TDD in folkloric variants of Tóruigheacht Dhiarmada and Ghráinne.) Manannán survives better than most, as does Bodb Dearg, but the truth is that there was a certain...anxiety about it that you can detect in the folklore. The term "Fomor" develops three meanings from the Early Modern Irish period -- the guys that we know and love, a generic ogre or giant (which is how it's often used now), and a churl or servant, which further complicates things.

Besides Bruíon Chaorthainn, you can also see examples of Zany Folklore Lochlann showing up in Fenian folklore in Soraidh Fhinn go Tír Lochlainn ("Fionn's Wooing in Lochlann"), Laoi an Airghinn Mhóir ("The Lay of Airgheann the Great") (which, besides being very alive in the folklore, also goes back at least as far as Duanaire Finn, which was compiled in the 15th century), Laoi Chath Gabhra ("The Lay of the Battle of Gabhair") (which is interesting for having the son of the king of Lochlann on the Fianna's side for once), Duan na Cloinne ("The Lay of the Children"), Comhrag Fhinn agus Mhanuis ("The Combat Between Fionn and Magnus") (our boy Magnus, son of the King of Lochlann, also appears in Soraidh Fhinn go Tír Lochlainn), Laoidh Maodh-Chabir agus Chamagich ("The Lay of Maodh-Chabir and Camagich") (for SEXY Zany Folkloric Lochlann), An Cú Glas ("The Grey Dog"), which the Fionn Folklore Database actually did a reel about on their Facebook/Instagram if I'm not mistaken, Bratach Fhinn (Fionn’s Banner), and Duan nan Naonar (The Lay of the Nine). I'm *sure* there are other legends out there, these are just the ones I was able to immediately track down.

So, that's covered. Now, who is the King of the World? And the answer is that, like Magnus, he's a recurring antagonist we sometimes see pop up. In Bruíon Chaorthainn, he's the king of Lochlann who tries to invade Ireland. Meanwhile, in Cath Fionntrá, which has a lay form of it in the Book of the Dean of Lismore (a Scottish compilation, incidentally, from the 16th century, showing how bound up all these traditions are from an early date) and, besides that, has Irish manuscript attestations going back to at least the 15th century, the "King of the World" is a full-fledged antagonist named Dáire Donn, who forms an alliance with kings across Europe to invade Ireland. (Here's the older text here, and the info on it here.) We see a sort of sequel to it in the modern Irish tale “The romance of Mis and Dubh Ruis” where Dáire has a daughter, Mis, who becomes a madwoman in the woods after his death and is sexed back to sanity by Dubh Rois. (It is...surprisingly funny, honestly.) Which is in Celtic Heroic Age. But what you can gather by him being King of Lochlann is also that he's...the Guy Over There (Who Wants To Come Here.) Even beyond personalities, that's it. You can compare him to the King of Greece in Duan Gharbh Mhic Stairn ("The Lay of Garbh son of Stairn"). The difference between a king of Greece and a king of Lochlann isn't that great, what matters is that he's Over There and that he's trying to invade us.

The Isle of the Torrent (Inse Tuile) is another one of those otherworldly, supernatural places where Things Are Weird. You can compare it, for early examples, to the islands you see in the Immrama genre, but you can also compare it to the various weird islands you come across in other stories, like in Nighean Righ fo Thuinn ("The Daughter of the King Under the Waves"), which has "Magh an Iongnaidh" (the Plain of Wonder). And obviously, you could tie this into the world of the Otherworld being located beyond the sea (which is a later idea; the early material seems to indicate, firmly, that the Otherworld was *below*, not *beyond*), but I think it just goes from the idea that you need your heroes to travel on a quest to get something -- you can trace it as far back as the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Odyssey, Jason and the Golden Fleece, etc. People like a good adventure yarn. People like to have their heroes go to exotic lands filled with supernatural danger (where things There don't work the way they do Here), they like to face off against dangerous villains and arrive home just in time to save the day, you know? I will note that Goethe's "Der König in Thule" was translated, into Irish, as "Rí Inse Tuile" -- Thule was a magical island in classical times, it was well known to Irish monks as early as the ninth century; it appears in Beatha Bréandain, the Life of St. Brendan, so it's not inconceivable it could have been worked into the Irish tradition, especially since the variant of it that was translated is a literary composition, not necessarily the story 100% as it appears in oral literature. I'd like to explore that possible connection more down the line, but all I can say right now is that it's an interesting coincidence -- my suspicion for it being literary is further increased by the fact that this is not a name you generally see in the oral literature, but I won't go further than that. "Tuile" in Irish does mean "flood" or "flow", so it could just be a strange coincidence, of course, but...it's odd. It's odd.

Anyway, all that, and where are we?

A lot of Irish folklore and Irish lit are dealing with Us VS Them, the idea of the People Over There VS the People Over Here (which makes sense because of...centuries of People Over There sailing over, first the Vikings, then the Normans, then the Tudors, then Cromwell, etc. etc. etc. etc. Not to reduce an entire complex literary tradition that spans multiple continents to a Just So story, and there are a lot of stories that obviously DON'T feature this theme, but I don't think it hurts.) (And Scottish lit, of course, also gets into it, partially due to transmission, partially because of their own history of Guys Over There coming to take things from Guys Over Here, which also got transmitted to Canada via the diaspora.)

Who are the Lochlannaigh? The Guys Over There.

Who are the Fomoire? Also the Guys Over There, but not always overlapping. (Not all Fomoire at all stages of the literature are Lochlannaigh, not all Lochlannaigh are Fomoire.)

Who is Rí an Domhain? The Ruler Over There Who Wants To Come Over Here.

And where is Inse Tuile? Over There, but the name itself is strange.

I hope this makes sense in some way!

[margridarnauds]

Feel free to ignore this message, but I've got a question regarding the Mythological Cycle; top 10 characters, rated best to worst. Let's go.

WHY WOULD I IGNORE THIS? THIS IS GREAT. 

So, as a warning, since this is a very, very subjective list, I am not going to be............as academic as I could potentially be. I’m willing to chat any of this, since....I’m always down for any asks, specifically re: THIS most niche of niche topics, but in this particular list, I’m not rolling out all the sources I probably could, I’m not doing any massive Old Irish parsing, though I am trying to reference at least where I’m getting this from for the most part. Also, just because a character ends up on one end or the other doesn’t mean that I don’t ACKNOWLEDGE their complexity, it’s just that one end of it kind of sticks out to me. As we’re going to see. 

[rape mention tw]

1. Bres- Best boi. Next question. (I mean, come on, my #1 location to visit here since the first day I got off the plane has been Mizenhead, because that’s where the Dindsenchas say he died.) 

2. Sreng- Look. Sreng gets ONE text where he has a prominent role (that would be the Early Modern text Cath Muige Tuired Cunga, for anyone following), but my GOD does he make it count. Brother and son to a slaughtered king of Ireland, the warrior who didn’t want to go to war, the man who made the gods bleed and held out an entire ass battle by himself, the boyfriend of Bres. He’s definitely a figure who tends to go beneath the radar, and when he is brought up, it’s generally to present him in an unfavorable light compared to the TDD, but like. He deserves the world and I love him. 

3. Lugh - This is going to be an absolute SHOCKER for people, because I think that people tend to think that, because I rip him routinely and my nickname for him is “The Bitch”, that means I HATE him. And I don’t. Not really. I don’t think he’s a straightforwardly HEROIC character, at least not all the time. I get slightly annoyed when people gloss over his flaws in order to paint him as a perfect figure even in texts where that is BLATANTLY not the case. But Lugh is FASCINATINGLY complex, and I love the texts that show that. The Early Modern edition of Cath Maige Tuired, Cath Muighe Tuireadh, shows a complex Lugh, as does Oidheadh Chloinne Tuireann and the Dinsenchas poem Carn húi Néit. Hell, even in the Táin, is Lugh really a GOOD guy, or is he just a “good guy” because he tends to Cú Chulainn? He doesn’t really give a damn if anyone else dies, so long as his own son is taken care of. He loves his father, and is willing to do anything to avenge his death even if it means that the innocent family members of his father’s killers get caught up in it as well. Lugh is a GREAT hero, he’s one of the pre-eminent figures of Irish Mythology, with some fairly strong evidence to indicate that an equivalent figure to him was the most widely revered deity in Gaul. But he is also, depending on the text, absolutely RUTHLESS in attaining what he feels is a greater good. He IS “dutiful/pious Lugh”, but what does that duty mean? How does he interpret that? He kills his own family members quite routinely (the Sons of Tuireann, Bres, Balor, Cermait, off the top of my head), and basically gets himself killed because of a marital dispute, and that’s an element of him that I think that people are afraid of, but I ADORE.  It makes him HUMAN. 

4. Ériu - The only person in the myths to love Bres as much as I do. Down to lose her virginity to a random stranger on the beach. The Sons of Míl come in and she’s like “Yeah, okay, just make sure to name the island after me, okay?” I love her. (Okay, but talk to me about how Bres is her ONLY CHILD across the various myths, about how it’s HER who gives him land, it’s HER who goes with him to Elatha and negotiates for his sake. She was willing to put aside her own people, travel to a foreign country filled with people who have been raiding her own people for years, and she did it for love of her son. You can argue over whether she indulged him too much, but you can’t argue that she’s possibly one of the single most devoted mothers in the Mythological Cycle.)

5. Carmun - Only gets one Dindsenchas poem to her name, but WHAT a showstopper it is. “One fierce, marauding woman” indeed. An Athenian witch who tries to invade Ireland with her three sons, only to be captured by the Tuatha dé and kept as a hostage. Longing (for her children? For freedom? For her old home of Athens?) eventually kills her, and she, like Tailtiu, another foreign woman who has a meeting space named after her, dies in an oak grove. An interesting example of a female villain in a myth, with the text obviously having quite a bit of respect for her, and her obviously genuinely caring for her sons and vice versa. There’s really not all that much more ON her, but I’m not sure that there really needs to be all that more because her story isn’t REALLY an epic. It’s very neatly contained as it is. 

6.  Bríg - It isn’t that I don’t LIKE Bríg, it’s that. Well. I get tired of talking about Bríg when there are a dozen characters more who actually DO things in the saga literature. You know. Like her husband. Who is almost never brought up in discussions on Bríg as if he’s not there. NOT THAT I’M BITTER.I just.....don’t really CARE for her. At all. And the way that people tend to discuss Bres in conjunction with Bríg has given me a certain level of resentment, so I just............ignore her whenever it’s at all possible. She gets points for the scene where she keens for Ruadan, since that’s a wonderfully human scene in a text that tends to be rather inhuman and detached in the amounts of blood, gore, and sex that saturate it, but like....I just don’t CARE. I don’t believe, at this point, that there is any way to really make me invested in Bríg, as a character. But I can’t really rate her lower because like. Below this, we start getting into the “Hall of Dicks” territory so I’m just putting her here. 

7. Tethra - Interesting figure. Not an awful lot about him, so I can’t really say all that much. But I do think that he tends to get under-discussed, in general, and put kind of in a generic “Evil Fomorian” category when he is, and...he DOES invade Ireland, along with Elatha and Indech (Indech is not on this list mainly because it is hard to properly quantify my “You are a total trashbag, but also you’re very interesting to me, but also I want to light you on fire and feed you to the dogs” feelings re: him.) But also he is the great uncle of Emer, he is described in a positive light in a few other texts, including IN CMT ITSELF. He seems to be married to Badb, which is....someone just GIVE ME THE ENEMIES TO LOVERS POST-CMT STORY, FT. A FOMORIAN WARLORD FALLING OVER HIMSELF FOR A TERRIFYING SCALD CROW WAR GODDESS. 

Anyway, only reason he isn’t ranked higher is because we don’t really know all that much about him and I thought it would be a little unfair to, say, Bríg to rank him higher when I used her lack of personality/overall narrative to place her lower out of spite. He doesn’t have any actual APPEARANCES, no lines, etc. So like. I love him, I’m endlessly interested in him, but he’s gotta be near the end. 

8. The Dagda - “Now, Rachel, the Dagda is a very important figure, with a variety of appearances-” and like. You would be RIGHT. He IS very important. And, actually, I’m INTERESTED in him, which is why he’s not at the bottom. He’s a very interesting figure, and I’d be lying if I said he doesn’t make anything he appears in more colorful. 

He is also a DICK. 

So, like, he fucks a married woman (I WILL say, Boann enthusiastically consented so....props? You were NOT as much of a dick as you could have been), he sends the husband out on a trip to his weird half-Fomorian brother (Bres deserved sainthood for that one ALONE), and then....oh wait.....when it comes time to provide for the partitioning of Ireland he just GIVES AENGUS ELCMAR’S HOUSE? Like. Come on dude. That’s a way to just add insult to injury. That’s a dick move. (Thomas Charles-Edwards DID write an article that discusses how the Dagda is not as much in the wrong as you would think, but like. Still a dick move, I’m sorry.) 

How the Dagda Got His Magic Staff? He gets these three brothers to lend him their magical staff so he can resurrect his fuckboy son, then KILLS THEM? Then his son is like “Dad, that’s a dick move” and he brings them back, on the condition that he KEEPS THEIR STAFF? AND THEN HE RAISES AN ENTIRE ZOMBIE ARMY IN ORDER TO ASSUME THE HIGH KINGSHIP OF IRELAND? 

I just. I just. 

In the Intoxication of the Ulstermen (Mesca Ulad), we learn about what the Dagda DID with his Necromancy Staff: He created a corpse xylophone where he keeps nine people in front of him, hits them with one end of the staff in order to bring them back to life, and then hits them with the other in order to kill them, on and on. 

AND SPEAKING OF MORALLY DUBIOUS SHIT: Tell me that there is another way to interpret this Dindsenchas tale than....the one that seems most obvious. 

“Let come of it what may.” 

And of course CMT, where he does totally kill Cridenbél with the whole “PSYCH you asked for the best three bits now EAT GOLD” Thing, even if it isn’t the way that Bres thought AND Bres did overreact. The Dagda should have paid the proper honor price for Cridenbel, Bres should NOT have tried putting him to death. It was a STUPID move, since it led to Bres’ ruling being called into question. And.....the porridge incident in that same text. Which. I can. Discuss. If asked to specifically. But will leave for now in case anyone should instead want to search for it on their lonesome. 

His relationship with the Morrigan is interesting to me, in that you have these really rather amoral forces being married to one another, having a relationship of long-standing, even though they have no issues getting sex elsewhere. And it is my pure scholarly opinion that she pegs him.

Basically, the Dagda is interesting to me, I think that there are two principal things that motivate him in any given tale: His own id and his loved ones, in exactly that order. He’s a rather disgusting figure, but you kind of keep wanting to peer in to see how far the muck goes. And, if it isn’t obvious, I definitely prefer, say, Lugh to him, because I feel like, of the two of them, at least Lugh DOES believe that he’s doing the right thing. It’s just not always in any way that anyone, not even in medieval Ireland, would really think about “doing the right thing.” There’s this complexity to Lugh, even at his absolute worst. The Dagda just doesn’t care. The Dagda is more a God in the way of Zeus or Poseidon where it’s like “I’ll do what I want and damn the consequences.” Interesting to see, but not my favorite as far as character. 

He kind of reminds me of Cú Chulainn, actually, where it’s like. He’s interesting. But also there’s this sort of rank misogyny and brutality that tends to be drenched in the texts that he’s featured in, even by Medieval Irish standards (and I’d argue that those standards are MUCH more flexible than we give them credit for), so I can never really enjoy him. And I’m saying this as someone who deeply loves some VERY VERY MISOGYNISTIC TEXTS. 

9. Balor - You would not THINK that Balor would be near the top of ANY lists on Mythological Cycle figures, but he’s actually very interesting to me, in terms of his evolution. In folklore, he is very much a straightforward villain, kind of adjusting to fit whoever the invaders of the time were. I am NOT saying there is no basis for a villainous Balor, or even that a villainous Balor is an INNOVATION like it is for Bres. I am DEFINITELY not saying that, especially since those folklore stories tend to include Proto-Indo European elements that indicate that they could be VERY old, possibly older than the saga material. But I am saying the man is interesting. Something that tends to be totally overlooked in discussions on him is that he was a BOY when, in Cath Maige Tuired, he peered in on his father’s druids performing magic and it seeped into his eye, giving him his Evil Eye. He was a KID. Of COURSE he would be curious and want to explore. And because of that, he was turned into a monster. How would you go about it, as a kid, learning that you had to keep one eye closed forever because you could kill everyone nearby? How would you cope, really, seeing everyone turning away from you in fear? And, in Cath Maige Tuired, he doesn’t even KNOW that Lugh is his grandson when Lugh kills him. He knew he gave his daughter away in marriage to a young man of the Tuatha dé, he would probably guess that he had a grandson there, or at least the possibility of one, but like. He didn’t realize it was Lugh SPECIFICALLY then. And then Lugh killed him. Lugh was, for once, RIGHT to kill him, but. Still. There’s something a little tragic about Balor’s death, even if it’s 100% not what the redactor intended. I have to have a little sympathy for him, despite it all. Also his wife, Cethlenn of the Crooked Teeth, is very interesting to me, as a figure. I’m really curious what kind of marriage they had. I kind of like to think, regardless of what evidence there really is for it, that they had that type of Bad Guy Relationship where they were absolutely ruthless and awful, but fairly devoted to one another. That’s outside the realm of scholarly observation, but I like to think it. She’s the one who kills the Dagda, btw. Absolute underrated BADASS. 

Also like he did try to kill Lugh in the Early Modern Cath Maige Tuired with the whole “Put my head on yours” thing so like, props for trying Balor. Props for trying. 

The main reason Balor is rated so lowly despite everything else is......folkloric Balor. Because fuck folkloric Balor. He still isn’t my LEAST FAVORITE of the Fomorian lords, because we have #10 and Indech, but like. I can’t REALLY put him so high up in my favorites list. 

10. Elatha - I hate him. I actually hate this man. I know he gets a few sentences, really, but God. I hate him. The only good thing that he, as a character, did is to give us Bres, the Dagda, Ogma, and Lir. (NOT including Delbaeth. For Reasons.) I could discuss how, like Bres, he was not always a villainous character, how his image was molded to suit the Scandinavian setting for the Fomoire in Cath Maige Tuired, but consider: I hate him. 

Actually, let’s go more in-depth here. “WHY do you hate Elatha more than Balor, Rachel, he only has small appearance in one text? And you already said you like Balor-” Which is a GOOD question. Very good. So, let’s go into the Elatha Call Out Mode. 

So, first of all. 

He has sex with Ériu, gets her with a kid, and then leaves. He KNEW she was pregnant. But no, he doesn’t give a damn, he just drops a ring into her hand, gives him his name + a name for the kid (GOOD THING ÉRIU DIDN’T HAVE ANY OTHER NAMES SHE WANTED TO GIVE THAT KID) and fucks off to his own people. Now, I will say, he didn’t deceive her, in the sense that she was never PROMISED marriage, but. God. She was a virgin, she was presumably quite young at the time. He was a king of the Fomoire, and she sure as Hell didn’t know THAT when she slept with him. And she obviously didn’t have his certainty that a kid would result from it. I don’t think there was straight-up DECEPTION involved, per se, I don’t believe that we’re looking at a case of rape, in either the modern or the medieval understanding of it (he isn’t Cú Chulainn, after all), but Elatha sure as Hell didn’t give Ériu ALL the information that he had until it was too late. 

Okay, okay, dickish, Bres was forced to rely on his maternal kin-group all of his life and Ériu was basically fucked (though aristocratic enough that she obviously had land to give him in the first place, so not MASSIVELY inconvenienced), but like. Not really UNUSUAL for an Irish “hero”. 

So, let’s go into this further. 

He raids Ireland, alongside the rest of the Fomorian lords. “Now, Rachel, that is unreasonable, as you’ve already said you like Balor and Tethra, who also-” But consider: Tethra didn’t KNOW he had a son on the other side. (Balor didn’t raid Ireland until the battle itself, so he gets a few Brownie points. A few.) Elatha DID. Elatha knew damn well where his son was, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had at least some idea that his son was king of the Tuatha dé, given how much he ALREADY knew about Bres’ birth. I can’t prove it with the information given in-text, so I can’t argue it in a scholarly setting, but like. He fucking knew. If Bres had been an average warrior, he could have DIED because of Elatha being a massive dickwad, because like. Even if we ASSUME that Elatha gave a damn about what happened to his son and wouldn’t attack him directly, he couldn’t exactly control ALL of his men during a raid. People are going everywhere, weapons are flying. 

BUT ELATHA IS THE ONLY GOOD FOMORIAN, AM I RIGHT? 

ANYWAY, next we see him, Bres is going to him for help. He’s at his most vulnerable, his most humble after being yeeted off the throne by the Tuatha dé. He SAYS exactly what he did, that it was wrong, with a level of humility that’s honestly rare in anti-heroes even today. What does Elatha say? 

‘That is bad,’ said his father. ‘Better their prosperity than their kingship. Better their requests than their curses. Why then have you come?’ asked his father.

‘I have come to ask you for warriors,’ he said. ‘I intend to take that land by force.’

‘You ought not to gain it by injustice if you do not gain it by justice,’ he said.

“But Rachel,” you might say, “This makes perfect sense, this is GOOD advice.” But consider: Bres had ALREADY admitted his wrongs. He doesn’t need a lecture. Elatha’s advice gives him absolutely NOTHING, while conveniently absolving him of ANY accountability for Bres’ actions. (And keep in mind, under Medieval Irish law, the kin-group WAS deemed as at least partially responsible for the actions of its members, so like. I’m NOT just putting modern ideas onto Elatha here.) Also: THIS IS LITERALLY BRES’ FIRST TIME MEETING HIS FATHER. He has traveled SO far to see this man, and what is Elatha’s reaction? THAT. Treating him as essentially a flea to be swatted away with platitudes while absolving himself, even though he was the one who set Bres up to be in that position from the get-go.

I’m not saying that Bres is flawless here, given that he ADMITS HE ISN’T HIMSELF, but Elatha? Is a douche. And then, to compound his douchiness, he doesn’t keep Bres in line. He doesn’t bother to deal with him, he just sets him up with an army and goes back to invade Ireland again. I know that some scholars (chiefly Elizabeth Gray) have read it as paternal indulgence, but personally? I don’t think his moral qualm was EVER with invading it. I don’t think he had a single issue with invading Ireland, given that he’d already done it before. He just wanted to hammer it in hard to Bres how utterly he’d failed. If he had REALLY given a damn about him, he could have spent time getting to know him, trying to tone him down, be more of a proper FATHER to him, but he doesn’t. And, if Bres’ actions during Cath Maige Tuired cause thousands of people on both sides to die, then Elatha set everything in place so he could. The only difference is that Bres almost never gets a trace of sympathy for it, while Elatha is presented as a tragic figure whose son is an unfortunate accident. 

Also like. Bres is the only one of his kids he’s even involved with to begin with, for better or worse. Like, this is 100% a scribal error, but I’m using it to further my “Elatha is a dick” agenda: Ogma, in Cath Maige Tuired (so I’m not even using outside genealogies that the scribe of CMT might not have been aware of), is described as a son of Elatha. So, not only did Elatha fuck over ONE SON, but he did this type of shit repeatedly. He didn’t give a damn about any of his kids. 

Anyway: THE ONLY GOOD FOMORIAN. AM I RIGHT?