#cass vs punisher is the most recent one

[drbatsponge]

Whenever you see a Cass vs Whoever thing on Twitter or something please remember the holy words of one Kelley Puckett.

[bigskydreaming]

Your take on Damian and Jason bonding fics where they met in the League of Assassins?

Depends on what you’re talking about, since I see two types of those fics typically. The first - I’m not a fan. These are the ones where Jason and Damian met back then and formed a bond BEFORE either returned to Gotham. I dislike these because I’ve yet to read one that didn’t blatantly feel like an attempt to just replace the bond Damian has with Dick in canon with the same kind of bond with Jason, before he even meets Dick....and thus never ‘needs’ to form that bond with Dick....the strength of which is a defining catalyst for when and why Damian begins to change as a person.

Like, any time you just kinda....switch up a dynamic involving two characters by simply cutting and pasting one character out for another, its always going to feel to me like its just your attempt to have the dynamic you like with one character, but without having to be ‘saddled with’ the other half of the canon dynamic, a character you don’t like.

I’ve said many times that I don’t like the tendency to play favorites with the Batfamily, like, to have THEM play favorites with each other....not even when its Dick that’s the favorite lol, or like, people saying in a fic that Dick is Bruce’s favorite. Nah. No family benefits from favoritism. So its not that I want Dick to be the only ‘real’ or strong bond Damian has within the family, or that he can’t or I don’t want him to have connections with others....its that this particular dynamic is Dick and Damian’s and its that way for a reason....and if you just change things up in fic so that Damian STILL only has one REALLY strong bond within the family, its just now its with Jason and coincidentally, Damian and Dick are no longer that close here because there was never any reason for them to become close.....that’s when I side-eye.

Because also, too, there’s the fact that these characters are not interchangeable. A big part of the problem I have with fandom’s seeming contempt for Dick is that they then go on to write these versions of Jason or Tim that essentially feel just like they’re Dick Grayson with some Jason or Tim superficialities slapped on top. What I mean is, there’s a REASON that Dick is the first real bond other than with Bruce that Jason, Tim, AND Damian each all formed when they joined the family - just like there’s a REASON the myth of “Dick was an asshole to Jason at first” never made sense in terms of Dick’s actual characterization. 

And that’s because Dick, of all of them, is the one most likely to make the attempt to reach out and befriend the newcomer, welcome the new addition to the family. And it has nothing to do with him innately being ‘better’ than the others or anything like that, its purely to do with where these characters came from, the instincts that were hardwired into them years ago. I just don’t see Jason ever making the first move to bond with Damian then way Dick did in canon, because Jason is more territorial by nature, and with reason. He’s too cautious in a lot of emotional ways to be the one to open Damian up to the perks of being emotional, the way Dick did by literally just....letting himself be open emotionally with Damian, even though it left him vulnerable. 

And Tim, even without the way he and Damian were initially at odds - well, actually, BECAUSE of that, like as in for the same reasons the writers played it that way - Tim’s not really secure enough in his place in the family SPECIFICALLY, to take the lead in welcoming Damian into it and helping him feel secure in it, the way Dick the eldest did. 

Dick, by contrast, is hardwired to be welcoming. I make a big deal about his roots as a performer, because too often we only hear it mentioned that he was raised in the spotlight to hype up how self-centered or egotistical he is, as though insecurity and overcompensation are the only reasons ANYONE ever becomes an entertainer, even those born to a family of entertainers.....whereas I look at Dick’s roots and early childhood and see a guy who was born and raised to be INSTINCTIVELY inclined to put people at ease, to make people feel welcome, to defuse tension with a laugh and a smile. Dick was a child entertainer, and his first inclination is to ENTERTAIN. 

Because just like when seeing Jason as Robin, unsure and insecure, and just like when he saw Tim that way, seeing Damian that way when it comes to his new family, despite all his bluster....Dick is the one who was always going to be most likely to - and most likely the best at - putting that kid at ease. Putting aside his own gripes or feelings and doing what comes most naturally to him....putting on his performer’s mask and entertaining, disarming, charming the crowd, even the crowd of one, until they’re relaxed and secure enough for Dick to get through to, essentially.

So flat out - I just don’t see any scenario where as reserved and emotionally defensive as Damian was initially....that Jason or Tim or Bruce was ever going to have as much success being the FIRST one to really get through to Damian the way Dick did. (Which incindentally, is also part of my reservations about reverse-age AUs...particularly the ones where the family is almost closer than they are in canon, despite the fact that the most infamously reserved member is now the oldest and the most welcoming people pleaser among them is the last, with him having no influence on how successfully the others ended up integrated into the family. Too often, these smack of “see how much better others could have handled being the eldest and how much better it would have been for the family” and I’m just like.....uh.....I do not know that I agree with your logic.

So basically, fics that have Damian and Jason bond back in the League of Assassins, and then end up in Gotham sharing the kind of dynamic Damian usually has with Dick - AT THE EXPENSE of Damian having any similar kind of dynamic with Dick now, or any reason to develop one......meh. Not a fan.

THAT SAID:

There is another type of fic that could be referred to here, one where at some point AFTER Damian joins the family, he and Jason start to bond over shared experiences with the League or remembering having encountered each other in passing....THESE I have no problem with, and am even all for, as long as they’re used to like...again, add to the connections Damian has, rather than supplant or replace the ones he already has in canon. 

Because like I said, I’m not in favor of favoritism within the family, and that cuts both ways - even as much as I like Dick and Damian’s bond, I’m not a fan of necessitating that be the ONLY strong bond Damian forms. And a past with the League is something that’s unique and distinct to both Jason and Damian. Its a niche they both occupy and can occupy with each other without taking away from anyone else, because it is very uniquely THEIRS....and thus very uniquely a way in which ONLY they can fully bond. 

Not to mention, I reeeeeeeeeeally dislike fandom’s tendency to write that Damian is ‘spoiled’ as though being raised the Heir to the Demon was sunshine and puppy dogs, instead of murder and punishments. Damian’s status within the League gave him an ideal mask to hide behind when protecting himself emotionally - his haughtiness is as much an act, a defense mechanism as Jason’s abrasiveness, Tim’s aloofness, or Dick’s performances. In reality, Damian’s childhood in canon was abusive as heeeeeeeeeeeeell. We are talking about a kid who was literally raised to kill people, denied affection, and taught even not to expect or accept affection. THIS is what Dick had to break through, and its why Dick was ideal to break through it...Dick’s GOOD with kids like this....look at his teams and mentoring of various young heroes as much as his interactions with his family.

But once he HAS broken through to Damian and gotten him to open up to the idea of family....Jason is perfect for forming his second strong attachment, because Jason of all of them, is the one who will always be able to look at Damian’s arrogance and spoiled child ACT and see it as the mask it is - because he KNOWS the League in ways none of the others will, and thus has the clearest picture of what Damian’s early life had to have been like, what he went through, and how the spoiled prince routine was not at all consistent with the reality of being raised among the League that Jason himself is familiar with.

Plus, of course, Jason has his own extensively abusive childhood to contend with, that carries tons of paralells to Damian’s in ways that again are distinct to the two of them, even though all of the others had massively unpleasant childhoods in various places, times and ways as well. He’s the one who’s most going to understand the slight twitch heralding when Damian is expecting a punishment or a beating to follow a verbal reprimand, as well as understand just how important it is to Damian that this NOT be called out and addressed as what it is....even though Jason knows from his own experiences that it NEEDS to be addressed, for Damian’s own good. Thus Jason has ingrained instincts that enable him to navigate a lot of the minefields Damian’s issues create, in areas and ways where even Dick is going to come up short, for lack of personal experience or frame of reference. 

Bottom line is I’m ALL for Damian having more bonds than just with Dick, and I’m sick to death of stories that are just like “Dick and Damian vs Jason and Tim and also Cass exists probably but sorry I don’t know Duke well enough to write him I haven’t read a comic written in the last five years” (Isn’t it funny how often we’re told people don’t know Duke well enough to write him but also told the reason people write Jason/Kory/Roy is because the recent comics are ALL they’re really familiar with as opposed to the older stuff? HMM, FANDOM, HMMMMM - BUT I DIGRESS).

So yeah, I’m allllll for stories that give Damian new dynamics as well....as long as they’re not doing so just to have an excuse not to give any attention to the dynamic Damian ACTUALLY already has with Dick in canon. Like, gimme more Batfamily connections that ADD to their existence as a FAMILY, rather than just....cycle through and replace the connections that are already there in a never-ending dosey doe that never does shit to actually develop them as a family because writers prefer pretending key members of the family don’t exist or at least aren’t that relevant if they do.