#c ; rhaenyra targaryen

[somefirewhiskeyfortheway]

Rhaenyra: how could they possibly believe I had a hand in this monstrous act?

Daemon:

[rynnthefangirl]

Aegon, allegedly: “my sister is the heir, not me. What kind of brother steals his sister’s birthright?”

Aegon, five minutes later: my sister is a traitor and I want her dead NOW. Oh, her son had been murdered while acting as a diplomatic envoy? Well done brother, what an excellent start! Let’s throw a feast to celebrate!

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Ryan Condal literally stating that he expects people to switch sides after they see B&C (as if the murder of Lucerys Velaryon and Queen Rhaenyra’s terrible miscarriage mean nothing).

Those many, many, many viewers like me who actually read the book (unlike the showrunners):

[witchering10123]

blood and cheese

ok, so for me this one's about fifty-fifty

i do think that we need to bear in mind that this needs to actually be filmed and give the child actors as little trauma as possible, so the psychological trauma of the children??? yeah, glad they didn't go down that route tbh

while maelor was an important part of b&c in the book, that would again have required a LOT from the child actors and I very much appreciate that they didn't traumatised the child actors

the change they made to make helaena choose between her son and daughter would have been just as emotionally torturous as making her choose between her two sons, and i thought that the actors did that really well

I did like that rhaenyra told daemon that she wanted aemond specifically, and he then went forward and added the whole "if you can't find him kill jaehaerys", it really adds to him grasping for more and more power and acting against rhaenyra's interests, it's going to make the rest of the season incredibly interesting

I also like how they're showing the bad and the good on both team black and green (after all the trouble to divide the fanbase lmao)

I think we should have gotten more scenes with jaehaerys and jaehaera - I thought that b&c was going to happen like next episode and it would build up the children and their relationship with helaena and aegon a bit more so we could be really gut punched during b&c. while it was horrific... we didn't get the chance to meet the family

i thought that cheese not knowing how to get to the upper levels and that they accidentally happened upon them was... not very good writing. the whole point was that b&c knew exactly what they were doing and they were very effective at what they did. it added to the horror that people could use the red keep against its inhabitants and do such an atrocity as b&c

this could be attributed to shock on helaena's part but I feel it was more a bad writing decision that they changed helaena offering her life to helaena offering her necklace??? like idk, obviously she has grasped the situation and maybe she did think that she could persuade them with money but surely when that failed she could have offered her life - obvi not wanting helaena dead I love her to pieces but it would have made the situation seem so much more horrible if helaena had been pleading for them to kill her instead only for them to wait for her to choose between her children

helaena walking in on alicent and criston felt like it was for shock value, and the fact that alicent and criston had sex earlier in the episode completely cancelled out the shock imo. I think it would have been far more effective to find aegon (as jaehaerys' father), aemond (as the initial target), or ser arryk (because I'm sorry where exactly were all the guards??? how the everlasting fuck did b&c walk through the castle without using the tunnels and only encounter a handmaiden???)

soooo on the whole, it was good??? the aftermath of b&c is really what's going to make it either be brilliant or not

[rain-dere]

The thing with Rhaenyra having bastards is that it is an actual problem. I feel like fans who defend her aren’t paying enough attention to how Westerosi treat bastards. And the thing is this is actually a vital flaw of Rhaenyra’s. She has the arrogance and superiority of House Targaryen passed down through generations which leads her to believe she doesn’t need to scheme for heirs that look like Laenor. Why would she even need to do that? After all, isn’t she the realm’s delight, her father’s favorite, his undisputed heir? Who cares what the people at court think or the potential frailty of the promises made by the lords of realm. She is Targaryen, and a dragon rider, and a god among men.

Except that her father- just like she does- thinks that love and the word of Targaryens matters more than optics. More than the unsightly schemes non-Targaryens debase themselves to. This was never about an actual real-life opinion on having children outside of marriage. This is about how a medieval monarchy cannibalized itself and ended its own dynasty with war and bloodshed. Rhaenyra’s ultra-Targaryen beliefs are as crucial to why it falters as those held by her male Targaryen counterparts.

[greenqueenhightower]

ls it just me, but despite the fantastic fantastic acting from Emma D'arcy and Harry Collet, I couldn't cry? And if there were any tears welling my body wouldn't let them out because I felt like I was being to forced by the writing to care about them? And usually I cry super easily, I'm a sensitive baby. But like I'm just utterly bored of everyone on TB!!!

People compare them to the Starks but I don't see it? The Starks were incredibly interesting! Rhaenyras sons seem to be just culled from a Disney Family Movie.

I initially started leaning TG only because I couldn't find any ounce of sympathy or understanding for Alicent's situation that much, I didn't really even care for her. Now I just can't stand how obviously biased the show runners are with how they fucked up blood and cheese. It also ruined the opportunity to make TB actually interesting! Why are they so afraid to make the greens sympathetic?? I'm sooo utterly bored of TB!!!!!!!!!

Rhaenyra is a plain Mary Sue, I hate when people compare her to Daenerys. None of her children are interesting and I just absolutely despise Daemon and have NO idea why women simp for him.

Every time Alicent and especially her children come up on screen I'm just extremely intrigued. I cannot say the same for any character on TB. The only saving grace for TB is my love for Emma D'arcy but that's about it.

Anon, you expressed my exact thoughts!

I love Emma and Rhaenyra's character could have been so interesting if it was not framed as the character you should be rooting for "just because". Her narrative as a rightful ruler of Westeros is skewed and uninteresting because everything was handed to Rhaenyra on a silver platter.

I ADORE the greens because they are fighting tooth and nail with themselves, their imperfections, their outside influences, society's norms, pressures from centuries of indoctrination, and others' manipulation. Rhaenyra is fighting against what exactly? She would be more interesting to me if she was more flawed like you said, more eager to go out there and claim her rights, and less keen on being miss-goody-two-shoes for the viewers. Daemon is interesting because precisely he is so evil and horrible.

I also did not cry at all at this episode which is a shame because B&C is one of the worst, if not THE WORST event that GRRM has ever written and we got a minute of some reimagination of it. I wasn't at all pleased with how the writers and producers treated it and I was so disappointed at how they portrayed Helaena and did not give way to her grief and suffering. Let's see if they do so in episode 2.

TB are definitely not the Starks, and I'm glad the show does a poor job with TB's revered and immaculate portrayal because it would upset me if they tried to replace or replicate the Starks.

I'm also extremely intrigued by Alicent, Aegon, Aemond, Helaena, Otto, Larys, and Criston, and they are the main reason I will be watching S2 this summer.

[ride-thedragon]

My blood and cheese thoughts.

I want to get it out of the way and say I didn't hate the adaptation. I think it was a bit underwhelming in terms of the atrocities committed and positioned in the books, but for the changes the show made, I think it's a really good adaptation of one of the worst aspects of the dance.

To go in further though a pros and cons list because I didn't entirely love it.

Pros:

1. PHIA SABAN. She was just excellent. I saw a lot of people early on hating on the delivery, but to me, it worked extremely well. That's Helaena experiencing this disaster without anyone at her side. That's show Helaena, it's amazing that she understands the character so well. Her immediate reaction is her discomfort at someone being so close yet still being terrified. The necklace handed over because she didn't know better, she's never had to know better. The way she reacted to Alicent and Criston, running through the castle muttering things to herself. It was all so excellent and she really sold it. "The boy is dead" sounded like a part of the prophecy she couldn't face when she was afraid of the rats and the way she's trembling as they believe her, that she sacrificed her son. It was incredible acting so early on, and it was excellent.

2. The trade-off. It was set up so well to me. Aegon confuses Jaehaera from behind in their first scene. Helaena is the one who can tell which child is which. The mother knows, is haunting, and the fact that she was checking on her kids that late in the night was so saddening. Then she, the only one so far who we see keeping track of who is who willingly is just beyond heartbreaking. The fact that they had the killer look her in the eye and admit to the other that she wasn't lying when she pointed to her son was just insane.

3. It was Aemond. In the books, they say Daemon, Mysaria, and Rhaenyra purposefully tried to kill Jaehaerys and traumatise everyone involved as payment for Luke. The fact that it was Aemond in the show made a lot more sense .

Cons.

1. World Building.

Helaena is the Queen of Westeros. Her children are the heirs to the throne. WHERE ARE THE GUARDS?!. Where are the at least 2 guards that should be obligated to be at their side. The handmaid's that would go with her to the kids' room in case they wake up, her maids who'd prepare her for bed after?. It makes absolutely no sense for them to be alone in that moment. It's not Criston’s responsibility. He's Alicent's guard. Helaena and her children should have guards.

2. Cruelty.

The cruelty of the killers was lost in the adaptation for the worse. Obviously, they don't have a personal stake, and the way it's set up, Cheese finds Helaena, and blood is trying to work it out, but I do think they should've been worse. There was just a menacing quality missing from the killers, especially when we followed them around. I think having it from Helaena’s perspective isn't the best, but it would've been better to have it interchange. To build up to the suspense.

3. Brutality.

No, I did not need to see a child murdered on screen, but I think the brutality of the situation was lost as well. Helaena is terrified because she's a princess left alone with criminals doing something unknown. Why not make it clearer. Have some bashed in heads of fallen guards, have a murdered handmaid, and the kids left sleeping. Decorate the place with the cruelty of what hey intend to do, have it resonate what her choice means, and when we see her run and hear the noise, it's past what they've already done. This also means blood is more a part of it and it isn't a split decision. This leads to more last issue.

4. LET DAEMON BE ACCOUNTABLE.

Why is he not? Why is it left ambiguous? It's so strange. When Aemond killed Luke, you could tell it was him overestimating the situation, its a mistake only to the extent that Aemond was playing a cat and mouse game with a war shipment because he didn't think of the consequence. It makes jo sense to do that with Daemon. This man wants to burn and kill and go to war the entire episode only to not have him say any prince would do. He schemes and plots, risks himself in King's Landing only to not have the final call? Let him be extreme. Now I'm going to have to sit through Daemon and rhaenyra again, misunderstanding each other and Daemon being sad because no one trusts him because he's a horrible person to be loved by and I'm sure by the end it'll be rectified. But I wanted that call from him, on screen for his anger towards what happened, towards the delay in action, when Rhaenyra gave him an inch by saying she wanted Aemond, I needed him to take a mile because that's who he is.

Overall,

I think it was a good adaptation for the show. I don't want to watch the episode back because the sounds of Jaehaerys' death made me sick. I don't think they could've done it better off-screen or more responsibly for the current events of the world. It was simply effective. I just had my expectations as a book viewer and as someone who was excited to see where the writers are taking the world they created because either like a lot of their choices.

[nonbinarylesbianherb]

The issue with Ryan Condal saying stuff like “it’s all about them and will continue to be” (in regards to Alicent and Rhaenyra) as well as other statements about them and just generally being seen as pro rhaenicent- is that when the show fails to properly represent a character or continue important plots (e.g b&c and the grief that helaena faces and is experiencing + such distinct changes of characters choices that it is out or character from s1) is that people will take their anger out on rhaenicent/ rhaenicent fans. I love rhaenicent and seeing scenes with them BUT i wanted to see Helaena’s descent into grief and madness, I wanted to see plots continued or start, I wanted to see characters properly represented. Why couldn’t he do BOTH? why couldn’t he provide us both without lacking or misrepresenting other things. whyyyy

[la-pheacienne]

I just LOVE how both in got and hotd we have established that the root of all evil is women who *checks notes* enjoy sex! consistency is important right? I mean GOD FORBID we genuinely root for anyone that isn't nEd FuCKinG sTark the paragon of big dick masculine honor! who are we gonna root for? a flagrant philanderer that started the war because she's a whore? pwease

but at least they're criticizing monarchy you guyzzz hashtag anti war hashtag subversion!! definitely promising!! never been done before!!!

[hotdaemondtargaryen]

(CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM THE BOOK ‘FIRE & BLOOD’ + HOTD S2 AND S3)

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN reflects on the first two episodes of ‘house of the dragon’ s2: blood & cheese and maelor the missing.

those were terrific episodes.

“Well written, well directed, powerfully acted.”

“A great way to kick off the new season.”

“Fans and critics alike seemed to agree.”

“There was only one aspect of the episodes that drew significant criticism: the handling of Blood and Cheese, and the death of Prince Jaehaerys.”

in the book ‘fire & blood.’

“Aegon and Helaena have three children, not two.”

“The twins, Jaehaerys and Jaehaera, are six years old.”

“They have a younger brother, Maelor, who is two.”

“When Blood and Cheese break in on Helaena and the kids, they tell her they are debt collectors come to exact revenge for the death of Prince Lucerys: a son for a son.”

“As Helaena has two sons, however, they demand that she choose which one should die.”

“She resists and offers her own life instead, but the killers insist it has to be a son.”

“If she does not name one, they will kill all three of the children.”

“To save the life of the twins, Helaena names Maelor.”

“But Blood kills the older boy, Jaehaerys, instead, while Cheese tells little Maelor that his mother wanted him dead (Whether the boy is old enough to understand that is not at all certain).”

“It is a bloody, brutal scene, no doubt.”

“How not? An innocent child is being butchered in front of his mother.”

“I still believe the scene in the book is stronger.”

“The readers have the right of that.”

“The two killers are crueler in the book.”

“I thought the actors who played the killers on the show were excellent … but the characters are crueler, harder, and more frightening in FIRE & BLOOD.”

in the show ‘house of the dragon.’

“Blood is a gold cloak.”

“In the book, he is a former gold cloak, stripped of his office for beating a woman to death.”

“Book! Blood is the sort of man who might think making a woman choose which of her sons should die is amusing, especially when they double down on the wanton cruelty by murdering the boy she tries to save.”

“Book! Cheese is worse too; he does not kick a dog, true, but he does not have a dog, and he’s the one who tells Maelor that his mom wants him head.”

“I would also suggest that Helaena shows more courage, more strength in the book, by offering her own own life to save her son.”

“Offering a piece of jewelry is just not the same.”

“As I saw it, the ‘Sophie’s Choice’ aspect was the strongest part of the sequence, the darkest, the most visceral.”

“I hated to lose that.”

“And judging from the comments on line, most of the fans seemed to agree.”

on ryan condal's decision to make changes to blood and cheese.

“When Ryan Condal first told me what he meant to do, ages ago (back in 2022, might be).”

“I argued against it, for all these reasons.”

“I did not argue long, or with much heat, however.”

“The change weakened the sequence, I felt, but only a bit.”

“And Ryan had what seemed to be practical reasons for it; they did not want to deal with casting another child, especially a two-year old toddler.”

“Kids that young will inevitably slow down production, and there would be budget implications.”

“Budget was already an issue on HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, it made sense to save money wherever we could.”

“Moreover, Ryan assured me that we were not losing Prince Maelor, simply postponing him.”

“Queen Helaena could still give birth to him in season three, presumably after getting with child late in season two.”

“That made sense to me, so I withdrew my objections and acquiesced to the change.”

“if you have never read FIRE & BLOOD, maybe it does not matter, because all i am going to ‘spoil’ here are things that happen in the book that may NEVER happen on the series. starting with maelor himself.”

“Sometime between the initial decision to remove Maelor, a big change was made.”

“The prince’s birth was no longer just going to be pushed back to season 3.”

“He was never going to be born at all.”

“The younger son of Aegon and Helaena would never appear.”

the butterfly effect.

“Maelor is a two year old toddler in FIRE & BLOOD, but like our butterfly he has an impact on the story all out of proportion to his size.”

“The readers among you may recall that when it appears that Rhaenyra and her blacks are about to capture King’s Landing, Queen Alicent becomes concerned for the safety of Helaena’s remaining children, and takes steps to save them by smuggling them out of the city.”

“The task is given is two knights of the Kingsguard.”

“Ser Willis Fell is commanded to deliver Princess Jaehaera to the Baratheons at Storm’s End, while Maelor is given over to Ser Rickard Thorne to be escorted across the Mander to the protection of the Hightower army on its way to King’s Landing.”

“Willis Fell delivers Jaehaera safely to the Baratheons at Storm’s End, but Ser Rickard fares less well.”

“He and Maelor get as far as Bitterbridge, where he is revealed as a Kingsuard in a tavern called the Hogs Head.”

“Once discovered, Ser Rickard fights bravely to protect his young charge and bring him to safety, but he does not even make it across the bridge before some crossbows bring him down, Prince Maelor is torn from his arms.. and then, sadly, ripped to pieces by the mob fighting over the boy and the huge reward that Rhaenyra has offered for his capture and return.”

“Will any of that appear on the show?”

“Maybe… but I don’t see how.”

“The butterflies would seem to prohibit it.”

“You could perhaps make Ser Rickard’s ward be Jaehaera instead of Maelor, but Jaehaera can’t be killed, she has a huge role to play as Aegon’s next heir.”

“Could maybe make Maelor a newborn instead of a two year old, but that would scramble up the timeline, which is a bit of a mess already.”

“I have no idea what Ryan has planned — if indeed he has planned anything — but given Maelor’s absence from episode 2, the simplest way to proceed would be just to drop him entirely, lose the bit where Alicent tries to send the kids to safety, drop Rickard Thorne or send him with Willis Fell so Jaehaera has two guards.”

“From what I know, that seems to be what Ryan is doing here.”

“It’s simplest, yes, and may make sense in terms of budgets and shooting schedules.”

“But simpler is not better.”

“The Bitterbridge scene has tension, suspense, action, bloodshed, a bit of heroism and a lot of tragedy.”

“Rickard Thorne is a tertiary character at best, most viewers (as opposed to readers) will never know he is gone, since they never knew him at all… but I rather liked giving him his brief moment of heroism, a taste of the courage and loyalty of the Kingsguard, regardless of whether they are black or green.”

“The butterflies are not done with us yet, however.”

“In the book, when word of Prince Maelor’s death and the grisly manner of his passing (pp. 505) reaches the Red Keep, that proves to be the thing that drives Queen Helaena to suicide.”

“She could barely stand to look at Maelor, knowing that she chose him to die in the ‘Sophie’s Choice’ scene… and now he is dead in truth, her words having come true.”

“The grief and guilt are too much for her to bear.”

spoilers! hotd season 3 & 4.

“In Ryan’s outline for season 3, Helaena still kills herself… for no particular reason.”

“There is no fresh horror, no triggering event to overwhelm the fragile young queen.”

“And the final butterfly follows soon thereafter.”

“And there are larger and more toxic butterflies to come, if HOUSE OF THE DRAGON goes ahead with some of the changes being contemplated for seasons 3 and 4…”

book! death of helaena and rhaenyra.

“Queen Helaena, a sweet and gentle soul, is much beloved by the smallfolk of King’s Landing.”

“Rhaenyra was not, so when rumors began to arise that Helaena did not kill herself, but rather was murdered at Rhaenyra’s command, the commons are quick to believe them.”

“That night King’s Landing rose in bloody riot,” I wrote on p. 506 of FIRE & BLOOD.

“It is the beginning of the end for Rhaenyra’s rule over the city, ultimately leading to the Storming of the Dragonpit and the rise of the Shepherd’s mob that drives Rhaenyra to flee the city and return to Dragonstone… and her death.”

the butterfly effect of maelor's death.

“Maelor by himself means little.”

“He is a small child, does not have a line of dialogue, does nothing of consequence but die… but where and when and how, that does matter.”

“Losing Maelor weakened the end of the Blood and Cheese sequence, but it also cost us the Bitterbridge scene with all its horror and heroism, it undercut the motivation for Helaena’s suicide, and that in turn sent thousands into the streets and alleys, screaming for justice for their ‘murdered’ queen.”

“None of that is essential, I suppose… but all of it does serve a purpose, it all helps to tie the story lines together, so one thing follows another in a logical and convincing manner.”

[lumillsie]

ೃ⁀➷ house of the dragon masterlist *ੈ✩‧₊˚

╰┈➤ otto hightower, alicent hightower, gwayne hightower, daemon targaryen, rhaenyra targaryen, aegon 'the elder' targaryen, aemond targaryen, jacaerys velaryon, mysaria, alys rivers, addam of hull, ser criston cole

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ otto hightower. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ alicent hightower. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ gwayne hightower. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ daemon targaryen. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ rhaenyra targaryen. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ aegon 'the elder' targaryen. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ aemond targaryen. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ jacaerys targaryen. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ mysaria. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ alys rivers. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ addam of hull. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

˚₊· ͟͟͞͞➳❥ ser criston cole. ੈ✩‧₊˚

tba.

[rain-dere]

I know season two spent five billion small council scenes showcasing parallels of Alicent and Rhaenyra being talked over because misogyny am I right? But they should have contrasted them to highlight Targaryen exceptionalism.

Rhaenyra has had unprecedented freedom (compared to other women but not her male contemporaries) due to her position as a dragon rider, named heir, Viserys's favorite, and current wife to Daemon. I wish she’d leveraged more of any or all of those and it had at least partially been successful. She outranks every single person in any room she’s in and they should’ve leaned into that instead because the show already heavily established that misogyny is the reason this whole war is even happening. Hopefully they do this going into season three now that she also has the dragonseeds behind her.

For Alicent, what little autonomy she had cobbled together throughout the decades died with her husband. If I recall correctly the book version Greens are more open to her advice but- show!Alicent’s inconsistent characterization aside- the show actually does a decent job of showing how women can be shunted out of power and the accompanying helplessness. The problem is Alicent loses power not just because she is a woman but also because she is outranked by her dragon riding Targaryen children. She literally cannot become an Alysanne or a Visenya or even a half-Targ Aemma. She married into royalty but was not born royalty and even as Queen didn't experience certain privileges Rhaenyra had.

I feel like the show diminishes this so it can point and say, "See, see! These women are struggling the exact same!" Do they struggle with many things, including misogyny? Yes. But said misogyny manifests itself in ways this show is not willing to differentiate between.

[greenqueenhightower]

So you mean to tell me that Rhaenyra sleeps with her sworn shield outside her door, and so does Alicent (most of the time), but Helaena and baby Jaehaera and Jaehaerys had NO sworn shield the night B&C attacked because it hadn't been assigned yet? Mmkay.

[the-heartlines]

rhaegons won that’s all that matters. (he’s called the realms delight now because he gives such good head since ya know he’s aegon the cockless now 🥰) also— here’s how sapphicrhaegon can still win!

[bbygirl-aemond]

daemon: you deserve a reward for putting up with me rhaenyra, fondly: you are my reward aegon: interesting aegon, to aemond: you deserve a reward for putting up with me aemond, immediately: yeah you know you're really difficult most of the time, it's honestly impressive-