#byler fandom ily

[butchnavi]

I genuinely hope stranger things gets cancelled and season 5 never comes out idc if it’s already been greenlit and probably filmed I just want to stay in this era of the tumblr fandom forever the writers will never beat what y’all come up with by the week

[smoosnoom]

hi im so sorry to bring up relatively old drama but why am i getting dragged into the entire clique stuff 😭

i talk to exactly two people on here in any sort of consistent basis, only one of which is actually a writer - please try not to make any assumptions about me, especially when i try my best to keep to myself on here, i really do not like getting involved into any sort of discourse within fandoms, and i usually consider it a waste of time

if u would like to chat abt literally anything ever, my askbox is always open :) but please don't include me in things i have no business being mentioned in

anyway ! only posting this because a few comments on my ao3 fic (which . why are u mentioning this on a fic of mine 😭😭😭) rubbed me the wrong way . if u also have no clue what the clique stuff is, just like i didn't, then pls feel free to scroll 👐

thank u

[wastelandroses]

Even though I’m a multishipper most of the time, I wouldn’t be fine if MiIeven was canon after the events of ST4, vol. 2 more specifically, and how the love triangle was handled overall. The sentence “I don’t care which one will be canon as long as all of them are happy” has been very common around circles that love both couples, MiIeven and Byler, but I can’t bring myself to agree.

I wouldn’t be fine if MiIeven was endgame after Will’s feelings were used as a prop to mend it. El should have herself told Mike how greatly she feels about him, or Will shouldn’t have to urge Mike to say “I love you” if the relationship was to be fixed. (However, I think they are doing this for a reason, but this is beside the point.)

Will is a gay boy in the 80’s, lives in a small conservative town that already hates his family. On top of that, he is terrified of coming out. Amongst everything else he has gone through, he does not need a storyline where his romantic love for his childhood best friend is neglected, turned into a plot device in favor of restoring a hetero relationship.

If they wanted to make Byler as an example of a tragic unrequited love, there are other ways to do it that doesn’t reek homophobia (and queerbait). The love triangle is not just a mindless fandom battle between who is better for Mike (or who he “actually loves”) like any other heterosexual love triangle in media. There is a difference between the two outcomes. One of them being filled with homophobic and disgusting writing choices that led to cause more unnecessary pain and trauma for a queer character and the other is a hopeful, refreshing ending along with another step forward in queer representation that the mainstream media lacks.

insp.

[hazmatazz]

unpopular opinion: everyone should shut up :)

[gay-episode]

I fully believe that I watched stranger things the way the duffers intended when it comes to byler.

Here were my thoughts (as I remember them) back when I watched Stranger Things for the very first time.

Also I'm gonna refer to Mike and El as milkven because apparently if you say the actual ship name it gets into milkven shippers algorithms or something

In season one- I felt absolutely nothing towards Mike and El, I literally groaned when they had their first kiss because of the generic "main guy gets together with main girl" trope, and I also found it really icky that El JUST compared her and Mike's relationship to a sibling kind of dynamic.

In season 2- okay I won't lie I shipped milkven in season 2, I thought they were really cute in their reunion scene (and admittedly that scene is still absolutely adorable), if the show ended with season 2 and I shipped milkven I would be a very happy camper. BUT obviously season 2 is notoriously THE byler season. I remember in the first scene with Mike and Will, when they're alone outside of the arcade, I remember my first time watching that and saying outloud "ha they have more chemistry than El and Mike do" I said it as a joke at first but as the season went on that feeling that they were good for each other only progressed. (This still blows my mind how I picked up on that without even knowing they actually liked each other lmao)

In season 3- my first time watching season 3 was eeehhh not very good for byler, you definitely have to know and analyze the characters to understand literally anything Mike does (at least I did lol) but I definitely knew that Will really liked Mike, I could tell immediately in the scene where Mike and El are walking away while the others are trying to contact Suzie, I remember seeing the way Will looked at them and thinking "oh wow Will totally likes Mike, that's cute" Also I really really hated milkven in season 3, my favorite scenes were El being independent and getting away from him

Season 4- DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED! Season 4 is what pulled me straight into the byler fandom. I cannot tell you how happy I got when Mike and Will had their kinda heart to heart early in the season, I don't know how to describe it but you know what I mean, it's this one ↯

Every single time they were on screen I could tell it was romantic, even in their fight scene. (I'm not even gonna start with the van scene otherwise we'd be here all day) Milkven on he other hand just made me mad, I cannot even begin to tell you how badly I cringed during Mike's ily monologue.

Keep in mind that these were are my thoughts from the very first time I watched these episodes and I KNOW it was intended to be that way. Obviously after learning more about the characters (mainly Mike) I have a LOT more to say about them, but the fact I picked up on this much from just my first viewing is honestly really telling.

[pholiabanna]

Mike and expressing feelings

Maybe this is controversial, but a very popular take in the stranger things fandom is that Mike has trouble communicating his feelings. Melvins use this as an excuse for him not saying ily to El, but some bylers also seem to believe he does have trouble.

However, basing myself on what I've seen portrayed on the show so far, I don't think that's the case. Ever since season one, Mike has been very vocal about expressing his discomfort or disagreement. From confronting his own dad ("I'm the only one who cares about Will") to screaming at Hopper (when he hits him and calls him "liar", he didn't precisely struggle with letting him know how frustrated and angry he felt). He also has no trouble standing up against authority figures (Hopper when he said they couldn't look for Will, Owen's agents who he didn't trust enough to stay on lockdown...).

My point is, him rarely opening up about his feelings hasn't been established on screen for his character either. Since he's the leader of the party, that role can only work if he expresses how he feels about plans or situations, which he does in all seasons.

The only feelings he's having trouble communicating are his love for Will and his lack of (romantic) love for El. But in my opinion, this isn't because he's a person that normally struggles with voicing how he's feeling.

It's a really hard situation for him because to begin with, being in the process of accepting your queerness in 80s America had to be terrifying, so things like being scared of El's or Will's reactions definitely come into play.

Also the guilt. He can't tell El he doesn't wanna date her, because seeing her cry in front of him while asking him why he doesn't say he loves her, knowing what she's gone through, breaks his heart. He's a compassionate person, and even if he's not in love with her, it doesn't mean that he doesn't care about her, and given she's going through a terrible time with the loss of Hopper, he puts her before himself and tries to be the best boyfriend he can for her. But the heart wants what the heart wants, so he can't say "I'm in love with you" because he isn't. He can't express his romantic feelings for her, but not because he's a boy that struggles with expressing his own feelings, but rather because those romantic feelings don't exist. And his true nature would be telling her the truth (and in my opinion, all of his talks with Will in season 4 were about him building up courage to eventually tell her that, because again, he's a boy that likes to be vocal about his opinions and he's trying to overcome the fear of rejection in this particular case, which is what's holding him back from his natural state).

He's also not opening up with Will at the beggining of the season for this particular reason. He's coming to terms with the fact that he loves him, and he seems like he's bursting with it. That's the thing, Mike has always been very vocal about his feelings, and with Will particularly. This has been portrayed on the show many times ("I'm gonna stay by you no matter what, we'll defeat the mind flayer together, meeting you is the best thing I've ever done..."). He opens up his heart to him with no problem. His behavior in season 3 and the beggining of season 4 was about him not acting like his usual self. In those scenes where there's clearly something that he's not telling Will, it's been established that he's acting as someone he isn't. So when he's not expressing what he's feeling, that's not his normal self. That's not his core trait, he's acting out of character. And that's because the feelings he wants to scream and yell are being affected by external reasons (fear, self acceptance, internalized homophobia...). Still, after spending some time with Will in season 4, he slowly goes back to his real self, and he starts to let him know what's worrying him ("El and I fought, it was a bad fight, I feel like a random nerd"). He has no trouble opening up with the right person. He's in the process of reverting back to his true self, the guy who has no problem being vocal about his thoughts. The reason why he still hasn't been fully honest about his romantic feelings with both Will and El is because of the misscommunication trope, the painting fiasco and the fact that season 5 is planned to be a continuation of season 4, so they dragged the storyline for a bigger payoff, where Mike being completely honest about his feelings will make him come full circle, and go back to being his true self, once all the obstacles are overcome.

So in conclusion, Mike is not "so in love with El but he has trouble telling her because he's a boy who has always struggled with communicating his feelings". Instead, Mike is a boy who's always been blatantly honest until growing up and his own personal battles have made him stop himself from doing what he wants more than anything (being honest) and his journey consists of overcoming those obstacles, because his honesty wins over his fears.

Anyways, that's the way I've always seen it. I'd love to hear more opinions in this topic and I'm completely open to discussion! Let me know what you think.

[cloudycleric]

want you to know that i'm not really in the byler fandom anymore (it started getting too toxic and inflammatory so now i just hang out on the outskirts lmao) but i NEVER EVER miss your byler videos. sometimes i watch them a few months late but i do not miss them. they're awesome, you're awesome, byler is awesome, keep doing what you're doing <33

this is actually so ❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹 ily. this is so sweet. thank you for this💕💕

[paintingformike]

a couple months ago I still lurked on sttwt and under one byler tweet there was this guy who asked why people think that will and mike are going to end up together, like it was a genuine question. and in his replies there was this byler shipper who for some reason started talking about hearts in finn's eyes in the van scene (not even finn's enamoured expression but like literal hearts made out of reflection of light 😭) I believe a lot of people from broader fandom think that bylers are delusional partly because a lot of bylers themselves don't understand why byler is going to be endgame and they talk about little details instead of talking about the storyline/writing/etc.

YESSS ive talked about this before but there’s this huge problem with bylers (especially on twt) not really having a full grasp on the narrative and that’s why they’re always losing confidence because it’s exactly as you said, they hold on to minute tiny details rather than the writing itself 😭 like its fine to look for proof in background details but i wish people stopped using them as their main points of evidence yk? it also feels silly to try convincing people with them cause some of them only make sense in the context of being deep into byler lore. instead of doing that i think its better to just explain why byler narratively makes sense, like the way the painting plot will play out in s5 or how will’s feelings for mike were developed in the same season as mike struggling to say ily to el. sorry but people are most likely not going to immediately believe us if we just talk about, lets say, closet imagery, but if we bring up how specific narrative/writing choices only make sense if they point to byler endgame then people might be more open to its possibility.

[ven0moir]

i hate twitter and the fandom there gets harder to interact with as time goes on. i want to respect peoples interpretation of the show and characters bc we really wont know who is correct or not until s5 comes out. but damn ... you get people over there upset for saying 'yknow ... maybe byler will not be this super cute heartstopper romance bc yknow ... apocalypse, IH, evil villain, stress levels up the roof, HORROR'

if you do believe that, thats ok but i urge you to visit the stuff that the duffers draw inspo from to be prepared bc like ... some people there are going to be legitimately traumatized by the storyline.

ultimately st is a happy story and it is going to end well, i do believe that. but before that happens, its gonna be hard.

the painting reveal, sure, theres a chance that the duffers go for a more tame scene with that. maybe its more tender and mike is going to be nice to will and maybe i am the one who is wrong and its not like how im perceiving its going to be.

but maybe im right when i say that "yeah thats the moment we're gonna see how bad mike's IH actually is ..." which means a fight and a really bad one at that.

maybe in s4 his reaction would've been far more positive but in s5 ...? with the end of the world, him saying ily to el bc of the painting, feeling responsible for her but defeated at the same time, the gates of hell opened, hellfire club being blamed, witch hunt ensuing, eddie dying, worried about wills safety, thinking romance with will atp will put both of them in danger but wanting to pursue it, etc etc ... i have a hard time picturing mike being all happy and giddy off the bat. its going to take him a bit to process it in a healthy way especially with how he's kept his feelings and trauma bottled up all this time.

[silverliing]

Your Millow brings me so much joy!💕 I try to stay away from ST fandom bc of the negativity but your art really just warms my sapphic heart, it's so lovely! Thank you for sharing it <3

hi ily 🥺 and i agree i kinda had to step away from the fandom for a long time, got a new blog and all out of it but i been on a ST kick lately and everyone’s been super nice thus far —granted i’ve been exclusively keeping it to the will/willel/byler side of things...

but anyway, thanks! I have been really busy with grad and job searching so i’ve been real slow with drawings but i want to keep making them bc millow genuinely mean a lot to me too and it’s so cool everyone is been so receptive about it 🥹

[biillys]

🔥ask game🔥 for Stranger Things

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

hello ily thanku 🥺🥺

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

well every time something's happening it's always the bylers or the steddies making noise. the harringrove gang can def be annoying too but something about the way the others think theyre like. morally correct for their ship etc is just like. give me a fucking break. ur litereally on tumblr dot com. wait actually not a ship technically but the people that are obsessed with the fruity four. literally shut uppppppp

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about?

feel like most of my opinons aren't common enough to weigh in here so idk? billy would never settle for steve fucking harrington? HEATHER would never settle for robin!!!!!! billy and max's relationship is COMPLICATED and the duffers did not get to/try to examine and show that in their limited screentime. so all the idiots that are obsessed with saying max hated billy/was happy he died, read the fucking room!!!!

11. number of fandom related words you have blocked?

lol

usually i don't blacklist things cos usually i'm chill but my dash had so much of them and i found myself like. getting actively annoyed everytime they were on my screen. so i started with blocking steve and was like wow. it's so nice here now that he's gone. lets see if i can make it even better.

unfortunate side effect of this is that i barely see any billy content now cos he's unfortunately linked hand in hand with the others. i miss him so much. it's okay tho cos i can cry into ur inbox about him and send my friend 25 minute audios about him and i made another billy sideblog thats locked that i can post headcanons and fic-ish things on so!!! it's fun still!!!! i may post on this blog like once in a blue moon but he's literally on my mind 24 hours a day. has been for almost five years now.

18. it's absolutely criminal that this fandom has been sleeping on...

six feet under crew. billy, heather, chrissy, and eddie all died. max i'm pretty sure technically died so she's an honourary member. yeah i know others died too but anyway. ANYWAY i think they deserve to have fun and start shit together yknow!!!! i think they'd all fuck each others lives up but also be there to help pick up the pieces!!!! stopping myself here becos otherwise i will not shut up. wait also just max, chrissy, and heather...... el too if we're feeling giving. i just think they'd have fun together!!!!!

WAIT ALSO tommy and carol. BRING 'EM BACK. the trio of billy, eddie, and tommy? but also ALSO the nightmare that would be max, heather, chrissy, and carol.

the idea of billy and max living at the trailer park and neil and susan fucking off? maybe susan stays? idk but just the idea of everyone coming to chill at their trailer or going between theirs and eddies, even though their trailers can absolutely not fit that many people??? friday nights getting fucked up and faded. making terrible life decisions. making permanent life decisions. no i need to shut up now....... fuck.... spending the hours between 11pm and 2am trying to nail down a tattoo design before struggling through work for the weekend, complaining about their bosses, making fucking disasters in the kitchen, carol and tommy surprisingly being the only decent cooks, max having a knack for baking. trying to plan concert trips, talking about how differnt their lives would be if they had went to go to college instead. bingewatching terrrible television. semi decent box-dye jobs. terrible at-home haircut jobs. high school spitting them out and them trying to find their feet in the real world, them all getting full time jobs and trying to like. fucking survive. find a reason to get through the fucking weeks. SHUTTING UP NOW i swear.

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

idk if i would say i'm ashamed or horrified or anything?? but idk i like dark fic/dead dove fic so like. that one w billy and the demodog? a fav. also i fucking love age gap so i would easily read billy/karen if it was out there. it is not. i've checked. wait forgot max/billy is usually frowned upon. read that easily too.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped?

i dont know a single person hyping up stranger things or it's plot lines/story arc's? fruity four i guess cos after season four that amount of ppl that made that a Thing? crazy.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing?

'how does billy have fans he literally deserved to die becos [usual list of reasons here]' banging my head against a wall. move on with ur life. everyone else has.

'[insert harringrove hate here]' when ppl post rancid takes on them and then i have to defend it even when i don't care for it like. please. did u not see the shower scene? the basketball scene? the fight scene??? open ur eyes. i may be a hater but i'm not stupid. they fucked for real i'll admit that. the worse the take is the more i'm like damn maybe i do ship them maybe they ARE gay as shit for each other and married right now.

[foxgloveciara]

Okay so we all know how I know byler is like. Very much implied.

However

I want you hard-core byler fans to know.

Netflix doesn't care.

They say they ship it, and very much post all those things about it. Even if the writers and actors want byler to happen, netflix can cut that with a snap of their million dollar fingers.

Ily all and I love seeing all the posts but I'm going to honest. Low-key cringe when I see stuff like "wait til milkvans see Mike and will kiss before going into battle" because I have been let down so many times seeing the implied gays not be gay, or they cancelling a queer show I only just gotten into (ianowt, for example) I love that you all still have that trust in netflix. But remember.

Big corporations don't care about queer people or inclusiveness. They just care about money.

HOWEVER

Please keep making fan content. Draw it. Write it. Animate it, cosplay it. Whatever. Even if it doesn't happen in the show, you are still capable of ignoring what happened. Look at the other fandom I'm in, Danny phantom. Alot of us ignore a specific inportant to the plot episode because it was dumb ❤

[wibble-wobbegong]

you: "mike was an asshole during the rinkomania situation but will wasn't all that great either because he's a complex character and he's allowed to make mistakes"

half of this fandom: "no he's not!!! he's perfect!!!! mike's the one who's a dick who ruins everything and their miscommunication issues all fall on him because he's stupid and he knows it!!!!!! will's attitude is entirely justified and mike had no right to be upset even when he was trying to extend an olive branch and got completely dismissed!!!! he should've said something when /el/ said something that hurt will because mike is also responsible for her words (apparently)!!!!!"

like, ffs people. i don't personally like the word "dick" being used against either of them because we know neither was trying to actively hurt the other, but just because will was justified in his feelings and was focussing on other things, it doesn't mean his attitude didn't hurt mike.

but hey, mike doesn't deserve to feel hurt because he made will sad (even though we all know that the reason he's doing all these hurtful things is that he hates himself and what he is) and that's a crime so big it completely overwrites everything nice he's ever done for will, right? /s

(i also saw people claim that the fact that it's mike who apologises means he was the one entirely in the wrong,,,, as if we didn't see the same with the s3 jancy fight. and we all know they were both in the wrong, even when the show framed it as if all the fault was on jonathan and nancy was somehow blameless even though she, like will, was also trying to apologise initially.)

((sometimes i wonder why people ship byler if they think will is this beautiful beacon of purity and kindness, and mike is this horrible asshole who only brings him sadness and despair... they are much more than that and acknowledging it is important for their relationship to be balanced))

poetry snaps

i use the word dick very loosely, but i guess a lot of people interpret it more harshly than i do

also FANTASTIC point about jonathan and nancy. ily for that

[over-rated-cheese]

🍂this is way overdue but here, a intro post🍂

🍁random shit bout me: my name is maya. I’m a minor, and a Gemini (birthday is June 1st). I have amazing photoshopping skills and I am extremely sarcastic. I’m a history fanatic. I also make art and fics when I have the time.

🍃the fandoms I like to fuck around in: mostly stranger things but I also like, heartstopper, young royals, umbrella academy, community, good omens, Taylor Swift and Barbie.

🌧️ships that I absolutely adore: byler (my main squeeze), ronance, elmax, jaragyle, stonathan, rovickie, elumax, byclair, bywheelclair, jancy, and duzie. (yes it is in order from greatest to least)

🍂platonic ships that make me want more friends: madwheeler (top tier), madcleric, willel, elmax, bywheelclair, byclair, henclair, ronance and wheelclair (again they are in order)

🍃the important shit:

🍁my ao3🍁:

Old friend (one shot, byler)

Daddy stuck around but he wasn’t present (one shot, byler)

Three times Mike and Will didn’t kiss in the upside down and one time they did (one shot, byler)

Heaven knows I’m miserable now (work in progress chapter fic, byler, learn more about it in this post)

If only you could see it from our point of view (work in progress chapter fic, byler, trans mike wheeler)

I just want to forget (oneshot, byler)

🍂my other socials🍂:

tiktok (I make edits)

youtube (I re-post said edits)

🍃my spotify🍃:

my son, ily💖 (will)

ugh, it’s you (affectionate)🙄 (mike)

for my fic:

repressed babygurl😔 (sad mike, rip)

🍁feel free to dm or send me an ask🍁

🍂my spouses /p:

@l0v3c0r3e

@adorewillbyers

@evil-gay-person

@weirdo09

🍂single once again🍂

🍃fuck off if you are a creep or can’t respect other people

yk who u are

(this was inspired by @atbyler u slay bestie)

🍁enjoy your stay and remember, you are kenough🍁

[wheeler-fan]

I've read your previous ask and in my opinion, Mike won't end up with El. There are so many stuffs going on with Mike that are weird and that cannot be explained with "Mike cannot say ily to people, that's his arc and that monologue solved it". Finn said that Mike is trying to be normal and that in season 4, he experienced something new. Finn also said that the Duffers have been hiding him Mike's prov since season 2 which is pretty sus if you ask me. I think Mike's character will most probably shock you in season 5. I think that the reality is that Mike wants people to find him normal so he cannot fully be himself around people. In Season 3, you can see how he is conflicted between doing what he loves aka playing D&D, hanging out with friends,... and staying only with his gf cause people of his age must have a partner and must act like most teenagers do (hormones,...). In season 4, you see him acting normally around Will only when El isn't around and only after he discovered that in fact Will was single and that nobody was gonna take his place.

first of all- no one can be 100% sure that mileven or byler will be endgame. Mike, El or Will can die, or things between them might just not work out - they're also just teenagers with trauma don't expect from them too much.

* you said that there's a lot of things going out with mike- i agree. But the part "cannot be explain" is not true, everyone can understand a character in their own way but the most important thing is to try to analyze his behavior and not just says "cannot be explain 😋" and it's all. I have an answer for every thing he's done bc i think about him 24/7 and he's not confusing me- i understand him. I would start to worrie a bit if some people from the fandom would be understanding him 100% and i would be confused while watching him and his behavior.

* what Finn have said about mike is also clear for me- mike is into some new things this season and trying to be as normal as possible. Byler fans think it's about his sexuality, but it doesn't have sense "into some new things" you mean Will? you mean feelings for someone new?? if that would be a new things for him it would have mean that there was nothing into Will from him in s1-3. "trying to be as normal as possible"- max said the exact same thing in the speech for Billy, and that's literally mike that's how he's dealing with his trauma, he's trying to move on as fast as possible, he's pretending that everything is fine that life is moving on and it's gonna be ok, he's trying to fit not only in high school but in life. Not everything has to be about Will.

* you're literally telling me that I don't get this character and that he's gonna shock me in s5. I have a question do u even listen to what is he saying all the time? or you're just watching st and see Mike's looking at Will and that's all u need? Try to watch st but not thinking that mike is lying about eleven, try to see it as he mean it.

* in my opinion you're completely in the part about s3. It makes me mad every time when someone says that mileven is toxic bc they only hang out together in s3 when it's literally Hopper's fault not Mike's 💀 He didn't wanted to leave his friends but it was hard to spend time with them and eleven when she practically couldn't leave the cabin and had to come back quickly bc of the Hopper's rules.

* the last part is confusing actually, like wym he's acting normal around Will bc he knows that he's single and no one will take his place 💀💀

He's acting normal around him bc they had talk, Mike camed to him and apologized that's why it's not that awkward as it used to be at the begging.

(ofc what I'm trying to say is that everyone can get this character in a different way- let's stop hating each other for that)

[elekinetic]

9, 10, 14 :)

9. most disliked character? why?

yuri in s4. boring, unfunny, just icked me out

10. most disliked arc? why?

as of right now (s5 will affect this but it’s Not Out so), mikes “learn to say ily” arc. i never felt the stakes and it felt blown out of proportion. and i dislike that mike is reduced to his relationships in this season.

extremely EXTREMELY close second is jonathan and nancy’s fight in s3. it was such an interesting set up and they just. fumbled it so hard.

14. unpopular opinion about your fandom?

not everything is about byler. a lot of things that people assume are about byler are probably, likely, almost certainly not about byler.

but i’m not trying to Start Stuff so i won’t say anything. live and let live yk.