#but yeah no I really don't get it. especially when the more virulent stans resort to the very tactics they accuse some of us of using

[skaruresonic]

Twitter: "these people are mentally ill and dangerous. they'll excommunicate you if you don't exactly parrot their views"

my friends: actually some of the most caring and chill people I've ever met, who are extremely hard on themselves and passionate about their work and who have largely withdrawn from Sonic in order to move on from the drama

maybe I'm biased but

[essayofthoughts]

OK, so I know it was a long time ago, but you once called Tony Stark Stans virulent.

I agree.

So full disclosure I am far more of Bucky fan and don't care about Wanda all that much, however the way they try to blame Wanda for everything Tony does in AoU and after is something I can identify with.

Its actually very similar to how they victim-blame Bucky for everything that happens in Civil War when legit he was minding his own business not hurting anyone at all for 2 years before all hell broke loose due to Zemo. Also, the way they try and what Tony did to him in the final fight as a "normal human reaction" is just deeply disturbing. No. Beating him up, punching him, heck maybe even trying to shoot him once would have been a normal human reaction.

What Tony did was a brutal and vicious sustained attack lasting several minutes with multiple weapons and involved attacking Bucky when he was down and attacking from behind. (The kick to the face was especially nasty, since he was a) already down and b) was no actual threat. This is also an *unarmed man* who has to resort to hand-to-hand fighting whereas TOny is the equivalent of a flying tank and armed to the teeth.

I am sorry, but calling that a "normal human reaction" makes me think some of them might legitimately have psychotic tendencies.

To be absolutely fair to the Tony stans I do think that responding to the revelation of who killed your parents with anger and grief and a desire to lash out is a "normal human reaction". The difference lies in scale and capability - as you say, Tony's basically a flying tank, which means his capacity for retaliation is far beyond what most people have! And, further, Bucky is unarmed! Bucky is fleeing! Bucky has managed to live peacefully without hurting a soul since getting free of HYDRA until other people elect to fuck it up for him. Tony is very much directing his anger towards someone who is another victim of HYDRA's bullshit and taking that anger out on them and while that is understandable - who wouldn't be angry and upset in his situation? - the fact he is using all of his weaponry (after saying he won't sell weapons anymore, after seeing the horror they can commit, but it's okay, isn't it, if it's him wielding them?) and using them on a target who is themselves a victim and who is very clearly not wanting to fight back, who is unarmed, who is fleeing? That crosses every line.

But yeah - I'm a fan of Bucky too and the way he gets treated as a prop in a lot of Tonystan metas and works annoyed the hell out of me before I gave up MCU as a bad bet. The way the stans write WinterIron is just... jesus christ what is wrong with their perspective on the world? I also really hate how they try to claim that what Wanda did to Tony was just like what HYDRA did to Bucky which... no! Wanda in essence triggered Tony, but he had already been working on Ultron before! Bucky was brainwashed, mind-wiped and utterly controlled by HYDRA, and any time he objected "but... I knew him." they hit him and mindwiped him again! Bucky was given no freedom, Tony was hurt yes, but he was free to act on his fears, that was the point. Firstly that Tony be and bring about his own downfall, and Secondly that Tony is fully capable of doing that himself with very little cause. If Tony went through therapy and learned to recognise when he was feeling provoked or triggered, to take a deep breath and think things through, would he have used the sceptre behind the team's back to make Ultron? Signs point to Significantly less likely.

It's this very particular thing you see in a lot of fandom spaces where one character is picked as the Blorbo Who Can Do No Wrong, and so their agency gets denied at every turn. Every bad thing that happened? That's someone else's fault. Someone else made them do it, the Blorbo would never do anything like that on their own.

And... it's incredibly boring! It's also incredibly childish and a really infantile approach to fiction. Part of why I like both Wanda and Bucky is that both of them are fully capable of doing bad, even terrible things, be that under their own power or when influenced by others - and both have the capacity to feel terrible for it! Bucky keeps to himself and hides and does his best to avoid hurting people again! Wanda has a whole panic attack and needs a pep talk to believe she can fight to right the wrongs she committed, and we don't see her play around in minds much after AOU! Both of these people learn things - about themselves and about others - that cause them to change and grow, meanwhile Tony is stuck in his character roundabout, repeating the same cycle, never growing, and his fans look at this infantile writing and go "... PEAK".

Anyway thanks for this ask! That meta is years old at this point but I'm glad it's still making the rounds and hitting a chord with people!