#but this did help me solidify my interest in ellie x abby LMAO

[minustwofingers]

Neil did say he wouldn't do a story that goes from enemies to friends concerning Ellie and Abby. Concerning the Abby being gay, I haven't seen anything from the writers that strictly says Abby is straight, but at the same time going from what I have seen in my respective playthroughs leads me to currently believe she isn't. If you do end up attempting to write them as a pairing, to stay true to both characters, sparing Joel and Jesse, etc and not go from canon would help with that because knowing Ellie, if Abby kills Joel especially in front of her and then they start dating, it would go against Ellie's character and it wouldn't be an accurate depiction of her. Then on another level it could easily delve into a toxic relationship if canon events transpire and they get together. I agree with the posts I have seen recently about toxic relationships shouldn't be glorified. I escaped a toxic relationship and when I see those stories I scroll away from them and they aren't appealing at all in more ways than one.

hi again anon! first of all, before i respond to this, i want to say thanks for taking the time to type out a thoughtful response :)

to address what you've sent in an (semi) organized format since these are some really good points (also so sorry for the ramble...i have a lot of thoughts on this...)

a lukewarm defense of ellie x abby/enemies to lovers as a whole

straight abby

so to clarify what i was saying in the other post, i'm not disagreeing that abby could be straight/that you have good reason to believe that she's straight in canon. what i was saying in response to this was that if you're totally convinced that abby is straight, then that's great, i'm just not really sold on the idea that portraying her as queer betrays her characterization, since her sexuality + romantic life aren't a focal point of the games. (please note that i'm writing this under the assumption that your point is that writing a queer abby is synonymous to an ooc abby, which i really heavily disagree with. if this is just you saying that your personal characterization of abby is that she's straight and that you can't bring yourself to imagine her in a relationship with another woman, then that's a totally different thing and imo totally valid!)

neil's take

this is my own personal take on fanwork and fanfiction, but i don't really take this as an indicator that the pairing shouldn't be written for. i personally wouldn't want to see ellie x abby in the next part, because to be executed well it would require the bulk of the plot.

when toxic pairings are glorified

first things first, i'm sorry you also had a bad experience! i've had my share of toxic relationships too and i'm glad we're on the same page about glorifying toxic relationships.

however, i don't use my fanfiction to moralize. there's a rather big difference between glorification and depiction, and i think it's my reader's responsibility to know where the line is. there's also, imo, a big difference between fanfiction that has some morally grey elements and flawed characters and fanfiction that's self-insert and makes your love interest an abusive asshole while still maintaining a joking/positive tone.

there's also a significant difference between pairings and self-insert, too. self-insert implies a sort of escapism, and it's sort of fucked up when the escapism being sought out includes toxicity. pairings are different people and don't have that same level of reader relation.

this all makes it sound like i'm going to purposefully write a toxic, shitty, unhealthy ellie x abby fic. which is not the case and leads me to my next point...

why i would write ellie x abby after joel's death: a short treatise on why i disrespect canon for sport

i have a lot to say about this one so i'll split this up into subsections

exhibit a: characterizations are sort of flexible

i say this with a caveat, because sometimes it's so clear when you pick up a piece of fic that a writer has no fucking clue what's going on and doesn't know how to write a character. but some of the best fanfictions i've read have taken a pairing i'd never see coming and would ordinarily disagree with and turned it into something insane, because odd pairings and circumstances that seem otherwise impossible require you to dig into what's left of a character after the most obvious character traits. on the surface, of course ellie would never be compatible with abby. but what about below that? that's something that you can only find out by writing it with your own personal interpretation of the characters.

exhibit b: genuine enemies to lovers is by definition a little iffy at first

real enemies to lovers has really gotten watered down lately, and i think that part of the problem is that so much fic is tagged as enemies to lovers when it's really just surface level tension that's resolved 1k words in (i myself am guilty of this, but i think it's important to point out anyway). it's supposed to feel impossible at first! they shouldn't start out with the characters making eyes at each other and by describing how crazy the sexual tension is in the air from the moment they meet, because that makes the payoff so much less rewarding. which leads me to my next point:

exhibit c: stirring the pot is fun

this is the reason why any fic i write for them would be set at least after joel's death and likely after seattle. if those events hadn't happened, it just wouldn't be a very interesting story. the challenge as the writer is to figure out how to get these two characters who have both immeasurably hurt the other person into a situation where, while still honoring their characteristics, they manage to adapt and see each other in a different light. that's why i like this pairing—not because i was picking up on mad chemistry between them and just want them to bang. from what i know about them, i feel like the potential for genuine character exploration/growth is crazy.

tldr: i see what you're saying! but the reasons you don't like the pairing are actually sort of the same reasons why i personally do...which is kind of an odd impasse to be at lol. anyway thank you so much for sending this in!!