#but the person who wrote that propaganda cares so much

[foundfamilyhq]

Propaganda under readmore:

At the end of Young Sheldon, his character displays grief in such a moving and honest way that I don't think you really ever see that often. At least, not in a way one would expect from a show like Young Sheldon. On the outside he appears cold and unmoved by the death of his father, but in actuality he keeps repeating the last time he saw him in his head over and over. Thinking of the many different things he could have said or done before he left his life forever. Should he have said bye? Should he have said I love you? He uses Star Trek to help cope, but that makes him come off as inconsiderate too. He starts to realize how much he underappreciated his dad, and wants to say something at his funeral. But he says nothing. He regrets not saying anything then, and he regrets never saying when he was alive. Sheldon never cries about his father's death once, but you can still see the pain and utter despair in his face.

(the rest is copied from my old propaganda cuz I was proud of it lol) HEAR ME OUT. We can FIX HIM! (not the autism btw. That's his best feature) He is still an innocent kid! A kid who has yet to learn to be a bigoted and prejudiced asshole. A kid who is mocked and bullied for the sin of being kinda annoying and hard to understand. A kid who is growing up in a toxic environment that encourages him to change for the worse.

If he gets adopted, he could be given the kind of support and understanding that he never had. He could be taught how to respect others and why that's important.

Sheldon Cooper at his finest is a smart, silly, and quirky little guy. And even with his flaws, just imagine the power the family could gain from this kid. Imagine the hijinks that he could get into with everyone! Just, Bazinga-ing all over the place. It's a silly and fun picture!

And if you don't like that, imagine different characters studying him to see what his deal is. Or different characters trying to fix him to varying degrees of success.

Please adopt the young Sheldon Cooper! He's autistic, has OCD, hoarding behaviors, and is asexual and arospec (if not aroace), and maybe more that I forgot! (*got the ocd/hoarding from his adult version, but I don't think it's a big stretch to apply to the kid him, or at least whatever he grows up to be)

Anyway, PLEASE LET SHELDON COOPER IN THE FOUND FAMILY! We can still save him from the adult he is yet to become!!!

[hamliet]

the notion that bnha is pro authoritarianism or social hierarchies is nonsensical not to mention acting like being pro cop is bad

Err... BNHA is pretty pro-authoritarian. I actually find it pretty disturbing. And that's even if the story turns out with the League alive at the end.

As for being pro-cop--cops are human individuals, yes. But people have in recent years in multiple countries (including Japan, by the way) protested against cops being used as tools to maintain social hierarchies wherein people who are not part of that hierarchy suffer for daring to want to be treated as human beings. When I say I'm anti-cop, I'm not saying I hate anyone on the basis of being a cop. But I am saying that the ways in which the police force are used in many countries does societal harm. Critical thinking, yo.

Honestly I feel like this whole story (BNHA) and fans reactions throughout (especially when compared to other stories) demonstrate how people are not using critical thinking. And that can have real world consequences, though it doesn't have to.

I just find it weird that people are okay with a story where the ruling class is always right and always wins. Like... how have they not? I mean, even stories that end up suggesting the ruling class isn't entirely wrong or show flaws in rebellions generally don't go hard on the authoritarianism. But Horikoshi... is doing this.

The whole thing is so weird to me personally, too, because Horikoshi's wishy-washy framing and switches in coding generally seem to be the result of him caring, deeply, what his audience thinks and feels. Too much, really, but it also seems like he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people. Except this ending--even if Tenko does reappear as New Character and saves the League--is the exact opposite. (If Tenko doesn't reappear, then everything I'm about to say is multiplied by a thousand.)

It's catering to mean-spiritedness, and while I do understand fiction isn't reality, the side he's catering to now is making the argument that fictional crimes are real crimes and thus must meet real penalties.

I can play this game too.

If people are gonna make those arguments, I'm going to say they're the problem and the reason we have wars, genocides, assaults, and more.

If you ever want a cycle of violence/abuse to stop, someone has to accept that they've taken the last punch. Not keep going until the other side is WIPED OUT.

If you equate justice with equalizing losses, then you are enacting Dazai from BSD's statement on justice: justice is a weapon. You can never heal by it.

If you want to heal, you have to stop fighting and bandage wounds. And maybe you are too injured to do the bandaging. That's okay. But someone else can, and if you try to stop them on the premise of "but no one bandaged my wounds" you're a bitter person who makes the world a worser place.

If you say a tragedy is the story, sure. But you have to set up tragedies from the start. See, Attack on Titan, which's ending I love. It began with someone crying and an ominous message to the future. You don't set up your first chapter with "this is the story of how I become the greatest hero!" spend 200+ chapters criticizing hero society and have the hero fail at the goal he'd been repeating for 200 chapters in the end and join hero society and still think you wrote a story that delivered in what you promised. You failed.

Either you wrote a tragedy and are trying to pass it off as a happy story (see how well that works usually) or your understanding of a happy story is pretty much just fascist propaganda. And yes, BNHA does have fascist themes at this point. Way more than AoT ever did. But they have smiles and cute frog girls so it's not nearly as dangerous, right? (sarcastic).

The thing is, this is where the lack of critical thinking comes in. While I've seen people talk a bit about how BNHA seems like copaganda, it's taking things much, much further than other stories usually do and into territory where I'm frankly disturbed.

Yes, BNHA started out as a clever critique of hero society and of the very idea it's now seeming to uphold: that the human instinct (which is universal in real life to) to idolize people leads to a lack of humanity for those who do not have those traits we idolize, whether their fault or not, and for people to become villains in response. But not only has it failed to deliver on this premise by upholding society (hey, Naruto and to a degree Tokyo Ghoul also failed to completely change society), it's gone so far as to endorse what it previously criticized.

It's more akin to Game of Thrones Season 8 upholding racism, sexism, and classism, than it is to Naruto or Tokyo Ghoul. GoT ended with a joke about prioritizing brothels being open, as if the misogyny was actually a good thing and not what caused a lot of the problems. There's no critical lens here. It's just like "hey, there was no point in struggling. Monarchies that abuse women, rah rah, let's go!"

BNHA seems to be going a similar route. Deku's murder of Shigaraki, Ochaco's crying over Toga, the way Shouto reaches out to Touya--it's sad, but not framed as something the audience should see as a wrong done on behalf of heroes. In fact, the heroes are not criticized at all. Frickin' Edgeshot, whom no one cares about, is fine. All of them are fine. Their statuses are generally fine, too, except maybe Enji's and even then he's not like going to face the fate of the League and die alone. His family still supports him. Hawks is completely fine and framed positively. His regret over Twice is pure lipservice. Deku really did just need to kill Shigaraki, and all his "I want to save" spiel, much like Ochaco's, is for naught. He just needed to learn to grow up and get in line.

Even if Tenko comes back, and even if Deku like... somehow knew this would happen via vestiges or whatnot (let's be real, he will if this is the case), and the message is just that society isn't ready to move forward, but at least they can live, then... I don't know, y'all. That's still depressing. I don't see how Deku is a hero for that, much less the greatest number one hero. He decided to be a hero at the cost of his own integrity, and if this was a gritty story about the realistic struggle of living in a capitalistic society where ethics are always compromised that would make sense, but... it's not. Even until the final battle, the characters were endorsing idealism.

At the very least, Horikoshi didn't deliver on his promise in the first chapter. At the very worst, he's endorsing fascist ideals.

Like, I'm sorry, but "kill this person for the good of society," the violent upholding of oppressive societal hierarchies, the importance of being a cop hero and the way the military hero brutalities are worshipped, the way heroes are lauded and everyone who doesn't get in line with this is punished, went from being criticized to being endorsed. Those are all central elements of fascism.

The little guy deserves to lose, but, but Deku is the little guy, so it can't be! Except it can be. Because it's actually pretty common irl even to trot out examples of people like Candace Owens to be like "hey, you can't possibly say Republicans are racist!"

And don't you dare say "but Japanese culture makes it unreasonable to expect a non retributive justice!" The Japanese people are not a monolith. Not to mention... Naruto, Bungou Stray Dogs, Monster, Hunter x Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, Mawaru Penguindrum, Oshi no Ko, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan, and Tokyo Ghoul all say hi.

I hated the TG ending, and still hate it, but I'm not going to say that it upheld the CCG as right all along because it didn't. BNHA thus far is doing that with hero society. And even if the answer is for the League be revived and to leave society or whatever, then how can we be happy Deku is a part of this society? How can we root for him, or his classmates? Is he going to work from the inside to change it? Why wasn't that emphasized beforehand as a theme or struggle?

tl;dr Horikoshi has cooked his story no matter what he does now, and I don't think it's salvageable. Either way it has themes that are disturbing especially considering real world events across the globe, and that people should be more aware of instead of focusing solely on stories that have fascism and monsters in them but don't uphold it.

[most-datable-datable-bracket]

ROUND 3 MATCH 32

Mammon propaganda:

“He was done dirty in the first round, I hope he wins this time because he deserves it 

First of all, he hates you at the start but then he starts to like you but he exclaimed his hate too much at the start so he can't admit it 

Everyone knows that he likes MC, even his little D (who are demons familiars) thinks that they should date 

He is a classic tsundere but doesn't actually hurt you like other tsunderes but he is so bad at hiding his feelings that everyone is just ignores it 

He is the avatar of greed, meaning he is clingy which may be a turn away for some people but he cares for you so so much 

He has never turned into his demon form to hurt you (Asmo hasn't but he has tried to seduce you with his power)

Don't get me started on his story cards, he literally is so cute

He wants to be a mentor to Luke, like Lucifer was to him, he is only mean to Luke because he wants Luke to learn about how life isn't all sunshine and rainbows

He is also so hot, he is a bisexual panic 

He is bullied by his brothers but he cares for them so so much despite their bullying

I am so in love with him and have written so many fics about him 

Anyway, I'm going to stop here because otherwise I'll be here all day”

“First friend, first pact, practically the MC's first everything, he is a major Tsundere, he holds my heart hostage, I just want to smooch him, he and MC share a room, he is such a cute little bab, he does bully Luke (a child) but it's revealed that he just wants to show Luke that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and want help him figure things out

He is the cutest little guy, he cares for his brother 

His sin is greed so he does steal things from people but since lesson 1 he hasn't stolen anything from MC 

He wrote a song to propose 

Sure he is clingy but in a good way

He is so cute 

He adopted a child, which he had to leave in the care of witches and willingly let's the witches extort him 

There is so much that I can say about him but 1. Spoilers and 2. I don't think you want to read that much”

“OKAY SO. OH MY GOD. 

First person we're able to properly romance in game. AND FOR GOOD REASON. He's had MCs back from the beginning, hes the one real one in the game. He's always trying to protect us and its so nice. Puppy boy. He's so me as well??? Like he's such a doting boyfriend it's literally so cute. When MC had to go back up to Earth, he kept breaking the rotating schedule in order to call us more. He always gets MC gifts (avatar of greed love language being gift giving im gonna collapse) and he just drops the most romantic lines out of nowhere??? Like sir are you trying to give me a heart attack. He's the secretly traumatized comic relief. He has ADHD. He's canonically queer (MC doesnt have a set gender). He even likes Head pats. Vote Mammon.”

“HE'S SO PATHETIC AND CRINGEFAIL. I LOVE HIM”

Jaehee propaganda:

“only female love interest in MM, not included in the first round for SOME REASON, you literally go off and live your coffee shop au with her at the end of her route.”

“My lesbian wife. Open a bakery with her after convincing her that she doesn't have to give up her happiness to make money. She can pursue her passions. Also her backstory is so sad and I just wanna hug and kiss her and throw hands at her "family" for making her feel like she does. Also the Valentine's dlc, you get locked in the back of the bakery with her and... Yeah that's my wife. I love her dearly. Also can we just acknowledge that she's like the only path that involves almost none of the dramatic death defying nonsense. You're just gay and in love and it's beautiful”

[aedesluminis]

Today I finally decided to check something a friend told me a while ago. It was about Robespierre allegedly supporting and pushing for a full scale invasion of Italy, an idea that came from his younger brother Augustin and Napoléon.

The evidence for such claim is mentioned in Mary Young's biography on Augustin Robespierre. This is what Young has to say about it:

(page 142).

So not only was Carnot - someone who's considered responsible for turning a war of defense into one of conquest by robespierrist historians - unexpectedly against the idea of invading Piedmont, but Maximilien Robespierre, even more unexpectedly, was pushing for it.

And there's more: at page 154 - 155, Young mentions, quoting a work by J. Colin, that the reason why the CSP fell apart was because Robespierre interfered with war affairs to the point of alienating Carnot. While the latter was indeed against invading foreign countries, Robespierre, on the contrary, approved it and wanted it to be accomplished:

So it seems like the story about great advocate of peace, Maximilien Robespierre, is indeed just a story...!

Because of course a historian, whose book presents a foreword by Marisa Linton, wouldn't completely intentionally or unintentionally twist and misunderstand sources, right?

Right!?

Wrong.

The sources which Young uses to support her ideas are from Histoire de la campagne de 1794 en Italie by Gabriel Fabry vol 2, p. 438 and L’Éducation Militaire de Napoléon by J. Colin. Let's give them a quick look.

Fabry's histoire simply reports a CSP decree showing a certain eagerness in wanting to invade Piedmont. The excerpt, as you can see, doesn't include any signature.

(pages 438 - 439.)

Since Young said that Robespierre approved it, one would be inclined to think that it was Maximilien who wrote and signed the decree, with his signature being the first one. Of course the handwriting and signature of a CSP member isn't absolute proof of approval, but I usually see these two things used as arguments to show that a CSP member agreed; even by reputed historians; so I wasn't surprised to see Young making such a bold assumption. I then checked Aulard's Recueil and surprise surprise that decree was written and signed by Carnot only. No trace of Robespierre:

(I underlined in cyan the part similar to what Fabry reported, since Aulard made only a summary of the decree.)

Concerning the fact that Carnot was opposed to Robespierre's - yes, because Colin considers it as such - warmongering plans, the latter mentions a letter dated 26 Thermidor, in which Carnot complains about it:

I happened to find that letter in Correspondance générale de Carnot vol. 4, p. 575 - 576:

To sum up, it says that the plan comes from the mind of Augustin, but that it was the tyranny of his brother that inspired it.

Now, this is a letter written shortly after the fall of the Robespierrists, it doesn't take much to understand that this is purely thermidorian propaganda, not only because of its content, but also for the wording used. Moreover, it's not a personal letter, in which Carnot rambles with a friend or relative, it's an official one from the Committee of Public Safety.

Saying that Carnot didn't approve the conquest of Piedmont whereas Maximilien Robespierre did - I actually don't know if it was Augustin's idea, but this is not the point right now - is simply wrong since the decree of 19 floréal quoted above has been written and signed exclusively by him.

Thinking that a historian didn't care to double check their sources leading to such a misinformed mess is... truly appalling. This is proof of how one should always double check sources when possible, even if they come from historians we trust or appreciate!

Not that I personally trust or appreciate Young, considering that another of her bizarre claims based on dubious sources almost caused a sort of Thermidor in the community almost one year ago...

EDIT: Mary Young wasn't a historian, but a psychologist, so I did wrong in calling her as such. I do still think that someone of the reputation of Marisa Linton should have done a much better job in reviewing the book.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Propaganda:

For Orufrey: "They're tragic wlw who have devoted their lives to each other since they were kids. They live together, they cook together, they're raising four girls together and they're doing the best they can. Olruggio would do anything for Qifrey if Qifrey would just Let Him 😭 but Qifrey is dead-set on protecting Olruggio and keeping him safe and in the dark no matter what it costs... i cant 😭..."

"Man I don't know they just have the vibes. They have toxic yuri energy but they are two grown men. They've known each other since their apprentice days and have stuck together ever since. Qifrey's main magic type was something he took up because Olruggio proposed that he learned to control the water he feared. They live together away from most of society with Qifrey's four apprentices, living the sapphic cottagecore (ateliercore???) dream. Qifrey, due to the fact that his eyesight is very much failing, something which is very problematic when it comes to witches, who need their eyesight more than most, is getting very desperate to get all he lost to the Brimhats, the witches who took one of his eyes and his memories, and Olruggio ends up noticing this pursuit and is implied to have done this more than once. Qifrey does not want Olruggio to know about both his failing eyesight and his goals, so he ends up completely wiping Olruggio's memory of those things, and laments that Olruggio is a kind person, and one who would most likely forgive him again, but also one who would try to save him, even when he didn't want to be saved. He also apologized right up until the moment Olruggio's memories of his secret were gone. In general I think chapter 40 is the somewhat toxic guy yuri chapter ever. I'm very tired so I do not know how to explain any of this, I just thought "wow Orufrey reminds me of this one poll I saw on Tumblr" and then spent three days straight hunting for your blog before completely forgetting my reasoning for Orufrey being yuri right before I submitted this."

For Joongdok: "Well first of all Yoo Joonghyuk has a whole arc that is transfem coded as hell (has a power/technique that can technically only be used by women but somehow he can also use it, for a time he even turns into a woman to wield it and it's. Actually just let me get the quote "The ines of the face had changed but it was clearly Yoo Joonghyuk. No, it was even more than before.") that just kinda happens,, and doesn't get brought up again but anyway. Second of all just look at them. You see the vision. Also a bonus observation is that these two often get shipped in a poly ship with Han Sooyoung and whenever I see people make a "regular couple, yaoi couple, yuri couple, I see no difference love is love" meme with them the combination of which pair among these three is which of the categories is always different"

Note: This submission also mentions Han Sooyoung, but I decided to count this polyship submission as guy yuri as well.

"They love each other, they pretend they don't care for each other but all their actions prove they care too much, if you remove someone from the trio then the resulting duo is extremely dysfunctional, as evidenced by more than a million words of canon. Is it technically guy yuri? Well, Han Sooyoung is a woman, but in a way she's one of the guys. Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk are men, but the text heavily hints that Yoo Joonghyuk is a trans woman who's just too busy and stressed out to transition yet, and Kim Dokja has just never thought about his own gender a single day in his life. They made the world for each other, they went back in time countless times and waged countless wars for each other, they wrote and read and lived a story, their story, for each other and that's what saved them all. The way Han Sooyoung writes Yoo Joonghyuk's story to save Kim Dokja and loses herself in the process, the way Yoo Joonghyuk voluntarily lives the story to the point of losing himself too and even forgetting why he originally decided to do it, the way Kim Dokja read Han Sooyoung's story which was Yoo Joonghyuk's life and that's how he found himself, they all took so much from each other and gave so much of themselves to each other, this is all very yuri."

"they're so yuri you have no idea. they have every staple of a yuri ship. unwavering devotion. waiting dozens or thousands of years for each other. dooming themselves and the world for each other. so much yearning. i also see them genderbent a lot (including inn canon in the case of yjh) and they're right both of these people are women. i genuinely can't even see them strictly as men at this point they're just yjh and kdj and they are yuri do you understand."

"they're so yuri. the abscense of yuri is the presence of yuri etc etc. these two guys are all ABOUT abscenses. also one of them is a part time woman. the other guy is a guy but like in the same way a square is a rectangle. anyway they're so guyyuri to me. bonus points also because they have a mutual girlfriend and when she's present they're girlyaoi but that's not relevant to this specifically"

[kitkatopinions]

When people talk about how "rwde is mad that RWBY subverts expectations" I wonder how much of what's considered subverting expectations is actually ignoring set up, doing things out of nowhere, and actually doing a popular and very much so expected thing.

Like don't get me wrong, I do think sometimes people have ideas for what RWBY should've been and then think that it was more set up then it actually was. Like, people who took Blake saying she grew up outside the kingdoms and had to learn to fight to mean "I am an orphan and spent my whole life on the streets" that then got mad when Blake had pretty big house and parents. I might agree that RWBY perhaps shouldn't have given Blake the privileges they gave her specifically because of how they decided to use her to tell the other Faunus to stop being mean to their oppressors (though I'd sooner throw that part out than get rid of Blake being the daughter of a leader with a big house,) but I don't think it was pulling the rug out from under people the way some people do.

However, then you have things like Adam, where some people in RWDE are saying "he was set up as this interesting character who would be an ideological foil for Blake that cared about the cause and his people, and it felt like he'd be used as a way to talk about the injustice in the world of Remnant and then was reduced to nothing but a girl-obsessed hate sink two dimensional incel" and some anti-rwde people are hitting back with "you're just upset that the edgy bad-boy isn't getting redeemed, you just wanted Adam to be Zuko, but RWBY subverted your expectations by not redeeming him and instead giving Ilia the redemption arc, and giving Blake and Yang the sympathy."

And there's a lot to unpack, there. Including the fact that redemption arcs and sympathy aren't a zero-sum game in fiction and as someone who loves both redemption arcs and when characters get justified sympathy, it's frustrating when people act like there isn't enough redemption to go around as if it's a pie and Adam getting a piece of it means Ilia doesn't get any.

But more to the point, A. I at least have zero interest in Adam being a Zuko, because so much of Zuko's redemption arc hinged on Zuko confronting his and his people's role in oppression. Adam is oppressed. Zuko was scarred by an abusive father and banished from home, Adam was branded like cattle by a supremacist who he was working for as a child laborer. Although both are incredibly sympathetic, they're incredibly different. Whether or not the writers were trying to harken back to Zuko (which I believe they were,) they seemed to completely miss the differences between the two characters, and also deciding to 'subvert expectations' when the circumstances they themselves wrote were so different is a bad look at best. As if they couldn't have 'subverted expectations' with a different character like Cardin or Jacques or even Roman Torchwick, that wasn't a member of their in-universe oppressed minority group.

B. A member of an oppressed people group that's been hurt by the oppressors of the world and yet spends their time committing horrible cruel acts that force the heroes to stand against them is not some never before heard of thing. In fact, it's very common. A revolutionary supposedly fighting for equality that's actually hurting the people he's supposedly fighting for is a pretty regular every day thing. People have literally been criticizing how it's misused and usually racist propaganda (usually written by white people) since long before RWBY was even concepted. Adam isn't a proper subversion of anything, in my opinion, because you can't do the common thing and then say you subverted expectations by not doing the less common thing. Which in this case, the less common thing would actually be to make the oppressed person who had been branded and was shown fighting for the rights of his people to actually be a nuanced and complicated character who does deserve sympathy and could be redeemed.

C. It might just be me, but if you're going to 'subvert expectations' then the thing you write instead of the expectation had better be pretty freaking good. Because sometimes the expectation is there because it just works well. Like in a group of heroes, you expect them to develop a friendship. If people want to subvert expectations by instead having them hate each other, the story better be golden because the reason people tend to expect friendship is that it's usually much easier to connect to character dynamics when they actually like each other. If you're going to write a story where hope is a central theme, but you want to subvert expectations by making a sympathetic and cool character with a personal connection to the mains look like they're gonna get redeemed but then instead make them just the worst person imaginable, then you better do it super well and make him instead a great well-rounded nuanced and fun to hate villain. So not only do we have to pay attention to why the writers shouldn't have gone that route for Adam, we gotta look at the quality of what they did with it, and... Nope. It sucked. Adam was paper thin and horribly voice acted and honestly if he'd never attacked in V6 nothing would've really changed because it had no real consequences that couldn't have been better achieved in a different way, and introducing his branding scar in the same scene he got stabbed was purely for shock value, and nothing came of his character, and idk if Ruby ever even learned his name on screen or Weiss knew anything about him, and it was so badly done. If you're going to 'subvert expectations,' you gotta do it well, or people are always going to want the thing they expected in the beginning instead. Unfortunately, the RWBY writers didn't write Adam well at all. So I for one can't blame anyone for saying 'honestly, I wish they'd gone with the other thing.'

D. Back to 'sometimes when people say subverting expectations, they really mean ignored set up.' With Adam in particular, I do believe that he was always meant to be a bad guy who did bad cruel things from the very first trailer he appeared in, but that doesn't at all mean that set up wasn't ignored. From Blake talking about him as a mentor, to her crediting him with the Grimm masks, to the ideological differences, to Cinder literally having to threaten and coerce him into working with her on screen, the set up indicated that at the very least, this would be a complicated and nuanced 'villain with a point' and that point was going to matter and be addressed. The set up was that Cinder's coercion was going to be addressed and would matter. The set up was that Blake's complicated feelings about Adam and her desire to help her people and her later established care and compassion for Ilia (who may I remind people is at least just as bad as seasons 1-3 Adam in at least attempt if not execution,) would lead somewhere when it came to Adam. The set up was that seeing a child laborer literally branded on the face with the logo of WEISS'S COMPANY would lead to big discussions and some sort of recognition of just how bad the current system is and how bad the SDC itself as always been. And instead Weiss as far as we know never even heard about it and continued on being angry that she wasn't set to be CEO and calling her grandfather a hero and Blake was completely disinterested in attending a rally against Jacques Schnee and teased Weiss about her family owning half of Atlas. Like ???

E. Doing things out of nowhere is also not subverting expectations. In regards to Adam, this looks like randomly making him totally obsessed with Blake enough that he stalks her for weeks when he literally let her go repeatedly before that. Doing things out of nowhere is making Adam not care an ounce about his people in order to do whatever Salem says when we saw him reject Cinder outright and need to be coerced with threats to his people. Those aren't subverting expectations, that's just doing one thing and then retconning the character to do something out of character.

This post turned out to be mostly about Adam, but there's tons of examples of this, like people saying RWDE are mad that the writers 'subverted expectations' by making Ironwood turn evil when we were sitting there like 'the fact that he wasn't evil was subverting expectations in the first place! And they had to throw V3 out the window to get where they were in V8! And it was super badly done!' People just throw around 'subverting expectations' when it comes to RWBY because it sounds a lot better than 'flying by the seats of their pants doing whatever pops into their heads with no care or consideration towards set-up or emotional pay off' but that's it, that's what the RWBY writers seem to do. When I expect something to happen in RWBY, it's because it's the natural thing that makes sense to happen, and in their supposed effort to 'subvert expectations,' the writers instead made a show with no consequences where you can't expect the writers to make anything that happens matter and you can't trust what's in the show because the writers might say sike and retcon it. It's endlessly frustrating to be like 'hey was any of what was in the show going to matter' and then have people say 'you're just mad because RWBY subverted your expectations.' RWBY subverted my expectation that the show would be good, how about that?

You know, if the show actually was interested in subverting expectations, Jaune wouldn't be in the show nearly as much and he'd be more gender-non-conforming and be a support healer role instead of the man now with like twenty years of experience on the mains who always has his trauma get plenty of focus and gets away with screaming in Ruby's face that she's responsible for all bad things while he mourns the three different women that were shoved in the fridge for the sake of his character development. They could've started with making the white straight cis able-bodied not-faunus man actually not be a basic underdog-protagonist turned Michael-Scarn-esque tragic hero that Weiss lusts after, but whoops. Like what am I supposed to think, that they're super interested in subverting expectations for the sake of women when Jaune is right there guzzling up screen time? Nah babes.

(Before someone comes in here talking about Adam-obsessed fan boys, I do not even like Adam, canon Adam is not only gross but far too two-dimensional for me to even enjoy, and my own ideas for rewrites involve me boiling Adam down to a concept and building him up again as if he was a different character as much 'Adam' as Ruby is Red Riding Hood. Nobody accuse me of being an Adam-obsessed dudebro or I will lose it. Because that's another thing that a lot of anti-RWDE people seem to do, is decide that the only reason anyone would ever talk about problems with Adam is because they're an obsessed incel man. And meanwhile I'm over here as a bi-women who dislikes Adam partially because he reminds me of my controlling 'my happiness is your responsibility' ex-boyfriend who we - long story - thought might've stabbed someone with a sword once. So yeah, not an Adam fanboy lol.)

[the-90s-music-colosseum]

Round 2 Group A Match 1

expand for propaganda ↓ (wall of text warning)

Thom Yorke:

"what other musician has a five minute compilation of his moans on stage ? yeah? no one? i thought so. vote thom yorke for my well being"

"He wrote all I need. (sexiest song ever written)"

"He made out with BOTH of the Greenwood brothers (damn)"

"Three Radiohead albums are on the top 10 highest rated album of all time, therefore his cock is massive"

"Vote him please or I will cry - microwave anon"

"I actually do have a locket with his face in it. I wear it everywhere 🙂"

"He was too hot in his Pablo Honey era cant change my mind🗣️🗣️🗣️"

"I just love him so much. He's such a cutie I want to put him in my pocket and take him with me everywhere :)"

"He wrote Spectre (sexy)"

"https://youtu.be/0YuENQZTV0k?si=EM9dx5Ye0bX6Xa4a"

"He would never evade his taxes like SHAKIRA DID."

"I want to meet thom yorke in a a record store where our eyes meet for a split second and we each notice what section the other is looking through and although neither of us is brave enough to start a conversation with the other we go home and fall asleep dreaming of what might have happened if we had gotten up the courage to talk to that cute person in the store and get to know them. I need him so bad it’s appalling"

"He's really cool!! He has had great character development over the years too if you're into that sort of thing. He has a really beautiful soul"

"gotta support grampa"

"hws so fine i want to turn him into a keychain so i can dangle him from my purse & jingle him whenever km bored… i will breath on him until it fogs all over then wipe him with a cloth to keep him clean Like a pair of glasses"

"If he wins I will create the most beautiful victory art you could ever imagine. (My 6th grade graphic design class will finally come in handy)"

"he's got that disease steez hes a flotsam fairy, you can sling him around like those stretchy hands you get in the quarter machine, he'll get mad for a minute but its fine"

"https://pin.it/1v99xvI"

"https://pin.it/4nvY08s"

"Has the voice of an angel"

"I had a dream once that I saw him and Jonny Greenwood walking down the street. I walked up to them and told them how much Radiohead meant to me and asked Thom if he could sign my Pablo Honey CD I had on me for some reason and he pushed me into open traffic and I got hit by a car and died. Jonny laughed. 10/10 dream got killed by Thom Yorke"

"He made Let Down in 1997. Shakira could never"

Shakira:

"ITS SHAKIRA SHAKIRA. le lo lo le lo le??? guys come on. do u even care about latinas."

"Shakira is genuinely hotter than most people on earth, so."

"No one else sounds like Shakira. No one else moves like Shakira. (Whether you think that's a compliment or not is up to you.)"

""is anyone even voting for Shakira" ME. I AM."

"She gives me huge Stacy's mom vibe. Like I'd come over to my friend's house not to hang out with them but to talk to their mom about how her divorce makes her feel and so I volunteer to help around the house or anything she needs. I'll take the task of cleaning out the attic with the black widows I'll mow the lawn on a hot summer day so she can offer me a cold drink for my hard work. Sorry I got lost in thought but she was part of my lesbian awakening and I will not take any Shakira slander"

"Shakira literally made me a lesbian <3"

[thepatristictradition]

Your "Biblical World View" is just 19th Century Enlightenment Propaganda

Is it just me, or does everyone stroking their ego about how "Biblical" they are, and how "Bible-Believing" they are (protestants, always), always seem to never actually believe the Bible?

I think so many of the tumors growing on the back of Sola Scriptura (where is that in the Bible?) are a result of late enlightenment, materialist philosophies, built on a bedrock of a hermeneutics of suspicion.

I saw a horrific example of this when I read someone discount John John 8:7-11 because, "Well, that section of John wasn't written by John, actually. It was added by scribes, so you shouldn't take it as seriously." Like, what? If this is your take, do you just not believe in any of the Bible? If some part is less Divinely Inspired, if it is less the Word of God, how is any of the Bible to be believed?

This is very funny, please laugh.

What this does is create impossible win conditions verging on, "If Jesus didn't write the Bible with his own earthly hands and leave it on a table for John the Baptist (not Catholic) to copy by hand, then none of it is real." Do you see how stupid that is? It is very stupid, and also very much not the historical view of the Church.

Scripture is Divinely inspired and Inerrant. It is inspired by God and has no Errors. This does not mean all of Genesis as we have it now was written by Moses himself. But all the people who recorded it for him, translated it, recovered it, and edited it were divinely inspired, and their collective work is without error.

I don't care what kind of historiographic view you take on Gospel authorship-- I care that you actually believe in the Bible. This handwringing over, "oh, who really physically wrote xyz," is a product of actual Free Masons, no I am not kidding.

This is what singled-minded, scholarly fixations on the Bible will do to people, and this is exactly why the Church needs Tradition. Tradition is why we have the Bible in the first place-- you're welcome, by the way. Tradition teaches you how to interpret the Bible. It is nothing less than the height of hubris to assume you know better, you are more imbued with the Holy Spirit, and more worthy of interpreting the scriptures than men who knew the apostles personally.

[hot-take-tournament]

HOT TAKE TOURNAMENT!

TOURNAMENT OVERTIME #166

Submission 515

if you must ship Jesus with one of his disciples then at least ship him with John

look I'm a Christian (but like not the bad kind) and I don't personally ship Jesus with anyone cause that feels a bit too much rpf-y for me but I see people (jokingly, I assume, for the most part, but also this is the internet so I know some people are very serious about this) ship Jesus with either Judas or Peter and like....... tell me your knowledge of the Bible is the few Bible stories you remembered from sunday school as a kid without telling me that your knowledge of the Bible is the few Bible stories you remembered from sunday school as a kid. like yeah sure there's all these great stories about these guys that kids learn about! everyone who has some basic knowledge of the whole easter deal knows Judas and if you've learned any stories about Jesus with the disciples then you probably know about Peter. but like........ John is the guy. like go read the book of John if you don't believe me. like this is the guy who is canonically (fun reminder that the term "canon" originates from people discussing the Bible long long ago) "the disciple who Jesus loved." like Sufjan Stevens, king of "is he talking about his boyfriend or Jesus" refers to John & Jesus' relationships in his song "John My Beloved" which is hella gay and like it's all right there!!!!!! like this is so strange for me to be invested in because I'm not like someone who actively ships them but like if I wasn't religious and all I would be all over this and the fact that people keep being like "hehe Jesus and Judas~~~" when there's like no textual evidence for that!!! it's just people seeing the kiss of betrayal and liking some dramatic stuff!!! and the people who bring up Peter instead are the same!!! like you're just applying fanfic tropes to a dynamic and deciding that you like it instead of like looking at what's actually there in canon!!!!!!!! like at least do cool blasphemy or whatever I hate that I care about this. I hate that I wrote all of this. I have no dog in this fight. whoever wins I lose because I don't want to care about this in any way but I do and it's horrible and I just wish people would at least talk about the guy who when having to read his gospel like a year ago for something, I was left with the thought of "huh....... if I didn't know any better I'd say that there was something going on here"

Propaganda is encouraged!

Also, remember to reblog your favourite polls for exposure!

Now this is the discourse I live for.

Also, if your otp is chriscariot (Jesus/Judas) or chrisrock (Jesus/Simon Peter), fight for your ship in the notes!

[genericpuff]

And with that, 2000 years of history and 10+ years of an animated adaption later, Attack on Titan is over.

I wasn't planning on making an essay post about this but like all of my essay posts, it got crazy out of hand, so here we are. I have a lot to say on it and the more I wrote, the more I realized exactly what the Attack on Titan finale was about. It's cathartic. It's also kind of a big shitpost but not for the reasons you might think.

Spoilers for the Attack on Titan finale ahead! CW: DISCUSSION OF WAR AND GENOCIDE AHEAD!

Now for anyone who knows what I'm about to talk about (and anyone who follows my stuff here), I'm sure you're wondering , what side do I fall on in regards to Attack on Titan's ending? Am I about to talk shit about it? It's very divisive and somewhat inconclusive. It followed the exact ending in the manga which, while expected, was still disappointing to many who had hoped the anime would take some other path.

But I have to ask, could there have been any other way?

Eren committed mass genocide, bordering on extinction of the entire human race. There was no way that he was gonna come out of it redeemed or as a hero, and he knew it. He went straight up Walter White core here and like Walter White, he is not a hero.

The fact that the Marlayans have been constantly going to war with other countries using Eldians as their personal soldiers goes to show that for countries that seek out conquest, there's no target too small or insignificant that can't be marked as an "enemy", and we see that reflected in Eren as well, in his pursuing of "freedom", an ever-moving goalpost that can never truly be satisfied.

The Jaegerists were hellbent on creating a new empire on the bloodshed of Marley - 'an eye for an eye', so to speak.

Nothing was ever going to truly satisfy either 'side' in the conflict of humanity vs. Eldians because such conflicts' origins have been obfuscated in hundreds of years of history, propaganda, and generational trauma that has repeated itself for so long that many don't even know what they're fighting for anymore, aside from one thing - that they don't want to suffer, that they shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of their ancestors, that they want peace and happiness but don't know where to start with taking the first step.

I think people are disappointed in this ending because, let's face it, it's anime, and it's an anime adaption that took years to finish. We always want to see some kind of vindication from stories like these, but I think in having vindication, it ultimately removes the point altogether of what's being said.

As much as we may try to fight it, try to deny it, the course of human history travels in a circle. Conflict will always arise. History is written by the victors, and those victors will be seen as heroes by whichever side they're fighting for regardless of what heinous acts they may have committed to justify their salvation. And after all of that conflict, regardless of the result - time goes on, and new conflicts arise.

But I don't think that means we have to succumb to grief and suffering and that's a point that I'm seeing missed in a lot of the discussion around the finale. There's a very powerful scene between Armin and Zeke, in which Armin talks about how he was born to run up the hill with Mikasa and Eren. He recognizes fully that if his life isn't meant to be long, he can still cherish those small moments that he thinks back on fondly, the moments that defined his life with the people he cared about.

And that's really all life is. Small moments and experiences that stick with us until the end. The very act of being born in and of itself is a cosmic miracle that gives us the chance to experience things that bring us joy and stay with us forever - however short or long that 'forever' may be. We take these small moments for granted when we're comfortable, but we look for them the most when we're suffering.

If I can relate all this to another piece of media that says the same thing - albeit with a much brighter ending - FF XIV: Endwalker also asks a similar question to Attack on Titan - is the only meaning in life to suffer and die? Of course, by its end, we learn that while death and suffering is an inevitable part of life - not something that should be avoided - it shouldn't persuade us to give in to fear and despair as a constant state of being. And I think Attack on Titan goes for a very similar approach, albeit slightly more as a cautionary tale - a nihilistic reminder that ultimately, the losses and victories we find in our current point of history are still just that, a single point, a blip that will be forgotten until it's ultimately repeated, and there's no escaping that.

It cautions us that freedom cannot exist without constant vigilance for war and conflict. It cautions us that our values and core beliefs for attaining freedom, love and happiness can be twisted into a weapon to cause harm, vindication gained at the cost of another. It cautions us that when left in the wrong hands, power can and will be abused by the ignorant while propagandizing itself as "the greater good".

So why not just find the joy that we can? The friendships, the little moments, the things that bring us happiness even if only temporary. Conflict is inevitable, suffering is inevitable, but that doesn't mean life isn't worth living. "Happiness" is not a tangible end point - it's the side effect of living a meaningful life that's true to yourself.

Attack on Titan is over. Some will argue the ending was the only way, others will argue that there could have been another way and that the anime adaption had the chance to change it but still didn't for reasons beyond their comprehension.

But isn't that the whole point? We'll argue. We'll bargain. Many of the arguments made will reinforce our own beliefs further rather than sway us. Many of us will insist there had to be another way, just as Armin insisted that this couldn't have been the only way, that humanity must have had another option. Meanwhile, many of us will acknowledge that at the end of the day, this is the story Isayama wanted to tell, and regardless of whether or not it makes him an idiot toying with his audience and admitting defeat by lampshading it in the penultimate scene of Eren admitting to his own idiocy, this was the power given to him and he used it in the best way he knew how.

Much like in any conflict, there's one thing that unites both sides - the human need for joy, connection, and freedom.

We might not agree on how Attack on Titan ended, but we can agree that it was a hell of a ride, and I hope we can all agree that it was worth riding, even if it wasn't satisfying for everyone in the end. It brought many people together regardless of their backgrounds, experiences, and differences, and connected them through something they all loved for over ten years. And despite how big a part of our lives it was, life will still go on, and we'll move on to other things to watch, enjoy, and argue over. Isayama will move on to whatever awaits him next, knowing fully well that his choice was his own, that he created the series he wanted to create regardless of how people feel about it. We'll all look for our own forms of joy and happiness as life moves on around us, as conflicts come and go.

Isn't that really what freedom is at the end of the day?

[ohdorothea]

This tournament is being run by and for queer fans, homophobes will be blocked on sight <3 More info about the tournament here!

Lyrics for the songs under the cut <3

Write in the tags your interpretations or propaganda for a specific song! Tags will be used to decide what songs may be saved if there are extra slots in the next round!

Nothing New lyrics

They tell you while you're young

"Girls, go out and have your fun"

Then they hunt and slay the ones who actually do it

Criticize the way you fly

When you're soaring through the sky

Shoot you down and then they sigh

And say, "She looks like she's been through it"

Lord, what will become of me

Once I've lost my novelty?

I've had too much to drink tonight

And I know it's sad but this is what I think about

And I wake up in the middle of the night

It's like I can feel time moving

How can a person know everything at eighteen

But nothing at twenty-two?

And will you still want me when I'm nothing new?

How long will it be cute, all this crying in my room?

When you can't blame it on my youth

And roll your eyes with affection

And my cheeks are growing tired

From turning red and faking smiles

Are we only biding time 'til I lose your attention

And someone else lights up the room?

People love an ingénue

I've had too much to drink tonight

How did I go from growing up to breaking down?

And I wake up in the middle of the night

It's like I can feel time moving

How can a person know everything at eighteen

But nothing at twenty-two?

And will you still want me when I'm nothing new?

I know someday I'm gonna meet her

It's a fever dream

The kind of radiance you only have at seventeen

She'll know the way and then she'll say she got the map from me

I'll say I'm happy for her then I'll cry myself to sleep

Oh woah, oh woah, oh, oh

I've had (I've had) too much to drink tonight

But I wonder if they'll miss me once they drive me out

I wake up (Wake up) in the middle of the night

And I can feel time moving

How can a person know everything at eighteen

But nothing at twenty-two?

And will you still want me, will you still want me

Will you still want me when I'm nothing new?

Run lyrics

One, two, three, four

Give me the keys, I'll bring the car back around

We shouldn't be in this town

And my so-called friends, they don't know

I'd drive away before I let you go

So give me a reason and don't say no, no

There's a chain 'round your throat, piece of paper where I wrote

"I'll wait for you"

There's a key on the chain, there's a picture in a frame

Take it with you

And run, like you'd run from the law

Darling, let's run

Run from it all

We can go where our eyes can take us

Go where no one else is, run

Ooh, we'll run

Ooh, we'll run

Ooh, we'll run

So you laugh like a child

And I'll sing like no one cares

No one to be, no one to tell

I could see this view a hundred times

Pale blue sky reflected in your eyes

So give me a reason and don't say no, no

And the note from the locket, you keep it in your pocket

Since I gave it to you

There's a heart on your sleeve

I'll take it when I leave

And hold it for you

And run, like you'd run from the law

Darling, let's run

Run from it all

We can go like they're trying to chase us

Go where no one else is, run

Ooh, we'll run

Ooh, we'll run

Ooh, we'll run

There's been this hole in my heart

This thing was a shot in the dark

Say you'll never let 'em tear us apart

And I'll hold onto you while we run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Like you'd run from the law (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Darling, let's run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Run from it all (And we run, and we run, and we run)

We can go where our eyes can take us (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Go where no one else is, run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Ooh, we'll run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Ooh, we'll run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Ooh, we'll run (And we run, and we run, and we run)

Ooh, and we'll run

[archerofthemists]

After reading the SOTR excerpt and knowing what little we know from that time frame of D12 from the original trilogy....I'm scared. This book is gonna hurt so fucking good but I'm scared and I have some theories. 🫣

Considering what we've seen from Catching Fire, I'm expecting a more harsh District 12. We know from Katniss's mom that the Peace Keepers were more harsh. Whippings and executions were common then, as opposed to how Katniss and Gale grow up with Peace Keepers who don't care that they hunt outside of the District, just as long as they aren't flaunting it.

Then I got to thinking about how Snow had Haymitch's family killed.

It wouldn't have been something bold. Having Haymitch's ma, brother, and girlfriend rounded up and executed without them committing a more direct crime doesn't sound plausible. Peace Keepers aren't going to have them killed in the District Square and announce "they were killed because Haymitch made the Capitol look foolish." There is absolutely going to be more to it.

Which brings to mind what Suzanne said when the book was announced, that this was inspired by David Hume's ideas of implicit submission. And how this story will take a deep dive into propaganda and the power of those who control the narrative.

And then I remembered what Katniss said about The Hanging Tree song. How she learned it from her father, how her mother didn't like it. How worried it made her mother that it would bring them trouble. How she ultimately forbade the song completely when Katniss and Prim started making mini nooses. That kind of fear isn't typically unfounded.

And then, I look at Haymitch's girlfriend, in the light that she is more than likely related to The Covey (most likely Maude Ivory's daughter given the timeline and ages, but I could be wrong). The Hanging Tree song would not have been known to many people. In TBOSAS the only people who hear it are of course Lucy Gray because she wrote it. Snow, The Covey and the handful of Peacekeepers at the birthday party when Lucy Gray sings it for them.

The chances of Peacekeepers remembering the song and repeating it to district citizens is basically zero. (Remember, they didn't really like the song that much)

Is it a reach to think Leanore Dove is killed simply for singing The Hanging Tree and the wrong person hearing it? It can be easily labeled as a rebel sympathizer song. It would explain Mrs. Everdeens worries around the song, if she saw a peer killed simply for singing it around the wrong person when she was younger.

Is it a reach to think Snow had Peacekeepers enforce arbitrary laws to get to Haymitch's loved ones and make them examples to the District?

[cleolinda]

Weekend links, April 21, 2024

My posts

Initially I wrote, “I ran my mouth about the Watcher streaming/paywall situation because I make bad decisions,” but I think the post has actually gone over well? In short, I want to see them succeed but I am also deeply fuckin’ baffled. I so desperately want the tea about what was really going on behind all this, and how the guys are reacting to it now, and I really hope they can turn this around somehow. 

Side note, Friday was CHAOTIC. 

Reblogs of interest

The Hot Vintage Lady Polls are escalating in round four. We got to a point where I posted propaganda for Ava Gardner AND Dorothy Dandridge in their matchup. Probably the biggest scandal of round three was Vivien Leigh getting knocked out, but she’s now High Chancellor of the Shadow Realm. The most contentious matchup this time seems to be Judy Garland vs Natalie Wood, which is nearly 50/50 as of this writing. But keep your eye on Hedy Lamarr, who may have Mifune Sweep energy. 

(I think I love these brackets for the same reason I love Dracula Daily: it’s delightful that thousands of people on Tumblr actually have deeply-held opinions about things from many decades ago, and if they didn’t before, they do now.)

(“I’m Katharine Hepburn, and this is Jackass!”)

--

Happy Bread Day (Observed)!

Hozier Watch 2024: “Why Would You Be Loved” has arrived on the Wasteland, Baby! special edition. I like this post about how that song is in conversation with “No Plan,” one of my favorites. (I wrote about “Movement” a while ago, but I could have fully inflicted an essay on you about how “No Plan” pulled me out of my six years of hiding from the internet. Anyway, it’s a great album from a few years ago, check it out if you haven’t.) 

Generally I keep my mouth shut about Taylor Swift, but the new songs sure have some lyrics. I love Florence Welch, but I’m scared.

You’ve heard of spoon theory, now check out spell slot theory

“You’re either frolicking in this field with me, or...” is funny, but then you get to the reblog.

What if we lay in this field together and held feet

A deep breach of etiquette with a little dog named Gucio

A story about statue vandalism with a delightful twist

You gotta fight mint with mint (like I can bring in my lemon balm, but at what cost?) 

I saw this post about feeding wild skeletons on Pinterest and I loved it so much that I tracked down the original. 

Once again, Holy Shit, Two Cakes theory

Remember the haunted house I grew up in? Yeah, it had a carpeted bathroom like this.

“gonna start formatting my posts like fics on ff.net circa 2008” will do you exactly the psychic damage you’re imagining 

The Round Table attempts to use Zoom

Video

Lil Nas X covers “Jolene,” Dolly Parton loves it, and @oscar-wet-and-wilde has further Black Country recs

A big loud steppy

“He’s retrieving”

Crispy meows

Watching this angel of a Doberman get a full spa treatment is also self care

AND YOU DARE SAY NO MORE TREATS??!?

The sacred texts

I don’t like thing, now with artist credit 

Personal tags of the week

I love when I can use a really niche, specific tag, and this week, it’s mouth perfect size for meme, with a little shaped on the side.

[most-datable-datable-bracket]

ROUND 2 MATCH 1

Mammon propaganda:

“First friend, first pact, practically the MC's first everything, he is a major Tsundere, he holds my heart hostage, I just want to smooch him, he and MC share a room, he is such a cute little bab, he does bully Luke (a child) but it's revealed that he just wants to show Luke that the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and want help him figure things out

He is the cutest little guy, he cares for his brother 

His sin is greed so he does steal things from people but since lesson 1 he hasn't stolen anything from MC 

He wrote a song to propose 

Sure he is clingy but in a good way

He is so cute 

He adopted a child, which he had to leave in the care of witches and willingly let's the witches extort him 

There is so much that I can say about him but 1. Spoilers and 2. I don't think you want to read that much”

“OKAY SO. OH MY GOD. 

First person we're able to properly romance in game. AND FOR GOOD REASON. He's had MCs back from the beginning, hes the one real one in the game. He's always trying to protect us and its so nice. Puppy boy. He's so me as well??? Like he's such a doting boyfriend it's literally so cute. When MC had to go back up to Earth, he kept breaking the rotating schedule in order to call us more. He always gets MC gifts (avatar of greed love language being gift giving im gonna collapse) and he just drops the most romantic lines out of nowhere??? Like sir are you trying to give me a heart attack. He's the secretly traumatized comic relief. He has ADHD. He's canonically queer (MC doesnt have a set gender). He even likes Head pats. Vote Mammon.”

“HE'S SO PATHETIC AND CRINGEFAIL. I LOVE HIM”

Elliott propaganda:

“I will punch anyone who dislikes him. He’s like a fire emblem character in the modern day. He’s so flamboyant and handsome, he can play the piano and he’s best friends with the old fishing man!”

“dramatic writer man with sexy hair”

[queerplatonicshipshowdown]

Round 2, Match 11

Lapis Lazuli and Peridot (Lapidot) from Steven Universe vs. The Doctor and Jack Harkness from Doctor Who!

Propaganda for Lapidot:

They are roommates that are v close, Peridot is canon aroace and they do break up at one point but they're fine now

Peridot was confirmed to be AroAce, and I personally view Lapis as AroAce as well (specifically Greyromantic and Asexual). A lot of the fandom ships them romantically because they're quite close in the show, literally living together and showing deep care for each other. Peridot even becomes depressed at one point when Lapis ran away out of fear of the diamonds returning. But they're never actually shown to be romantic. And (as I mentioned), Peridot was confirmed to be AroAce. Aromantic people can 100% be in a romantic relationship if they want to, but Peridot doesn't seem like someone interested in actually being in a romantic relationship, she's more interested in observing romantic relationships (one of her special interests is a tv show called Camp Pining Hearts, and she is very into shipping characters in that show). Their relationship just seems much more like a qpr to me!

Propaganda for The Doctor and Jack:

Jack's feelings are canonically romantic and the Doctor's are canonically not. To me, they are so special.

I wrote a fic to explain how I feel. https://archiveofourown.org/works/48043345

[darklinaforever]

For God's sake, just because you don't find a character interesting doesn't mean others can't. It's just your perception, don't try to pass it off as the only truth. Different characters evoke different emotions in different people and it's okay to say "I don't like this character" or "I don't find this character interesting." But it's not normal to yell that people who think this character is deep are idiots. You're literally acting like a person who, I don't know, doesn't like the color blue and is trying to prove to everyone that blue is a shitty color. This is crazy.

You :

For God's sake, just because you don't find a character interesting doesn't mean others can't. It's just your perception, don't try to pass it off as the only truth. Different characters evoke different emotions in different people and it's okay to say "I don't like this character" or "I don't find this character interesting."

What is not understandable in these simple sentences that I said ?

(But then, if people find that Aegon II is an interesting villain in one way or another, good for them ! I do not claim to have the holy word about the love that one can have or not have for a villain. All tastes are in nature. Perhaps the depth of his pathos and monstrosity can be interesting and fascinating on a certain level ? But for me, the way he's written doesn't grab me at all and I can't really see anything interesting about him... On the other hand, I think I'm speaking completely objectively when I say that Aegon II from Fire and Blood, is not deep, complex and complicated. Sorry not sorry)

It's Aegon II, indeed, who I don't find interesting at all, even as a villain. He's just pathetic and disgusting, and anyway it seems to me that these are canonical traits of him... But some people like this type of villain and good for them, it's just not my personal cup of tea.

And yes, I said that the character of Aegon II or Aemond had no depth or complexity, which is... true ?

Interesting does not necessarily mean being depth or complex (and even fascinating does not necessarily mean complex or depth). Disney villains for example mostly have no depth or complexity, yet they are usually always interesting and or fascinating in one way or another for the majority of people. The best example I can give is Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty.

Again, I never denied that one could find Aemond, or Aegon II interesting. As I've already said I myself find that Aemond is interesting through the prism of his writing, but not Aegon II. Yet I absolutely do not want anyone who might find it interesting in one way or another, as my old comments from my last two posts prove. So before you accuse me of something I didn't say, it would be nice if you actually read what I wrote. This will avoid making comments from the start of your request.

But please, describe to me all their so-called complexity. Aemond is described as a little devil from his introduction and remains so until his death. As for Aegon II, if it's due to his so-called refusal of the throne in the first place, there are tons of posts, including mine, which explain well why this is pro-greens propaganda bullshit created by Eustace.

Then, as I already said, it is not because a villain can have sincere positive feelings for someone that he has depth and complexity to spare. (I say this in case anyone comes to tell me that Aegon II loved his brothers because of building statues of them. And no, I'm not making any reference to Sunfyre, because, sorry to shatter the dreams of Aegon II stans, but he didn't give a damn about his dragon ; @nrilliree has already explained it very well several times. It's the same for those who think that Aemond cares so much about his mother Alicent, when he didn't even try to get her back after she was captured, even though he literally had the biggest dragon in the world at his disposal. Quite funny when we remember how Alicent declared that her son would come get her... And let's not even talk about those who romanticized his relationship with Alys, when he literally took her as a woman object. This is what war prices mean. It has nothing to do with being a mistress. Translation : He raped her ! Go to see @horizon-verizon for these things about Aemond)

Again, the movie “The Frighteners” is a great example of this. There we find two villains who are madly in love with each other, but who are real psychopaths obsessed with murder simply to break records with crazy looks, including the girl who often screams hysterically. Clearly, we cannot really say, just because they sincerely love each other, that they are complex and deep villains, because they remain quite caricatured despite this particularity.

And that seems to be something that's been happening a lot lately. That we confuse interesting and fascinating, with depth and complexity for villain characters.

Villains can be deep and complex, as well as being interesting and fascinating. But not all of them are. And sorry, but Aegon II is clearly not a character with any particular depth or complexity (unless you sincerely believe the bullshit that he was manipulated by Criston to take the throne and out of fear that Rhaenyra would kill his brothers and sisters. And again, I will say that it's still debatable even if this thing were true).

And I don't think it's crazy to just describe how Aegon II was written as a villain by GRRM. It's great to have your own interpretation of a text, but after a while, there is interpretation and fanfiction that we make in our own heads.

But once again, please try to explain to me the so-called depth and complexity that Aegon II and Aemond possess in Fire and Blood. (Obviously trying to give me examples that haven't already been dismantled and refuted...)