#but the entire game hinted at clive having to LIVE for himself

[mistress-light]

Well, maybe I am now convinced that Clive did survive.

[acursedhalo]

I would just like to say you singlehandedly saved the ending for me. I didn't even think about these things, I was too upset lol.

I'd like to add a few more things that I believe hint that Clive is still alive:

The game does not shy away from showing characters dying. All bearers and dominants who die from the curse are shown to fully turn into stone before completely dissolving, but it was just Clive's hand. Of course, Clive's hand falling limply like that was startling and immediately makes you think he's dead, but I think this is just the devs toying with you. He did just face a god and survive, so I believe him falling unconscious from exhaustion isn't outside the realm of possibility.

When Torgal howled, I assumed it was a mournful one to further drive it home that Clive is dead. But going through some gifs and screenshots, I remembered Torgal howled when Clive, Jill and he made it back to the hideaway from Dhalmekia after the second time skip. It's a "coming home" howl, and I think it's what it's meant to convey during the ending as well. It happens after the sun rises, which we know is a symbol of Clive's return. I might be misremembering, but I think Jill gives Torgal a surprised look here. Or, they share a look. Idk I remember a look.

Clive narrates the beginning and end of the story. You could handwave that away, I guess, but it goes deeper than him simply thinking these things as he lays dying. The post-credit cutscenes with the two brothers who are spiritually meant to represent Clive and Joshua shows a book called Final Fantasy that was written by Joshua Rosfield. Now, I don't think Joshua actually wrote this book, or at least he didn't publish it. I think it's his scholarly findings about the eikons and Ultima that Clive and Tomes went on to publish in his honor, and it's likely that the story Clive narrates is actually this very book. Who he's telling the story to remains up to the player's interpretation, I guess. Given the number of children in the hideaway, it could be them. Hell, it could even be his and Jill's children.

Jill is very much the player in that final scene. She immediately assumes the worst when Metia fades away, like Gav and I then did because of her reaction, until she sees the sunrise and smiles. I couldn't for the life of me understand why a sunrise would make her smile in such a devastating moment (it's not like Ultima made the sun disappear) until the above post reminded me of what the dawn narratively represents, which is Clive always making it back to her.

And lastly, Clive dying spits in the face of both Joshua's sacrifice and the message Clive's loved ones have been trying to hammer into his head for the entire game. He's been all too willing to charge headfirst into death if it means saving everyone else, and the people who love him remind him constantly that he doesn't have to sacrifice himself. The hardest thing for Clive to do is to accept the gift Joshua gave him, which is to live the life he has without his little brother.

Whether Yoshi-P will ever confirm whether Clive is alive or not, or if it will remain up to player interpretation, I have no idea.

But I've seen someone say that Yoshi-P wanted the players to feel hope when they play this game. So, I think ultimately it's up to the player to decide whether they have hope and faith in Clive's promise that he will return.

“I’ll be back. I promise” - Clive Rosfield

[wormywormz]

GASP!!!! TELL ME SOME DETAILS ABT THE SWAP!!!!

OK im gonna go a bit more in depth about characters/plot that i cant really put into drawingz. plz enjoy

(major spoilers for the first 3 professor layton games and pretty much everything in ace attorney. ill keep out of huge spoilers for the prequel pl games because i know you havent played those yet ghostie!)

to preface: ive never played plxaa and i dont know what happens in it but the idea of layton in a courtroom and phoenix solving puzzles really tickled me so i wanted to like do that but as a whole thing

i really dont know how to word this correctly but the plots for each games are essentially the same just told in different ways (as layton youd be solving the crimes in court instead of out on the street using puzzles and the same for phoenix but like the opposite) i briefly entertained the idea of layton having to solve a puzzle to get someones testimony but since its a complete swap it doesnt make sense for both layton and phoenix to be solving puzzles in different situations. still really good though

while the plots are the same theyre toned down a lot for layton (lost future isnt clive trying to destroy london because his parents died he like… killed the prime minister because his parents died) and more extreme for phoenix (i dont have an example really but the first game would probably be more about the von karmas/miles with professor layton type stakes. like a mech or something)

thats the basics for the stories i wont go into specific games because this would be very long and id only talk about lost future, the best game

-

laytons original motivations for becoming a defense attorney are spoilers for miracle masks entire plot so i wont go into it but claire was also a big motivator for that. her trial went down awfully and layton was already looking into law so that was probably what solidified that motivation. hes still the same character overall though, hes just a gentleman

luke is.. literally just the same character except he was an important witness in laytons first big trial & then went on to become his apprentice you know how it goes from there

i cant go into anything about descole so instead ill touch on floras character. the lawyer layton (working title) stories would be played out chronologically (spectres call to lost future) layton adopts her halfway through his career and she tags along to crime scenes a lot, much to laytons dismay

im gonna make a stark decision and say layton either gets disbarred or retires not long after lost future (he keeps adopting kids during his career and at some point he goes “hmmm maybe i should take care of them”) katrielle wants to follow in her fathers footsteps so she takes on an apollo-like role and becomes a defense attorney. yeah this means phoenix is the one who goes missing

-

phoenix is an arts professor! i lean more towards drawing instead of theatre but also it doesnt really matter. he never found out what happened to miles all those years ago so he didnt do any drastic career changes. hes very fond of puzzles but sometimes he would like people to give him information without having to solve a puzzle first

you guys remember andrew schrader? no? cool thats who mias swapped with. she stays alive and probably teaches something cool like criminology. i dont think she really tags along on adventures but shes a good friend to phoenix

maya is also essentially the same character. obviously since mia doesnt die im gonna say she lives with her but whenever phoenix finds himself wrapped in a new mystery shes immediately by his side

miles is interesting: his father was an avid puzzle solver, and he shared the same affinity for them as a child. hes also the reason phoenix is so fond of puzzles today. he still…. sort of enjoys puzzles as an adult. but its definitely something hes embarrassed about thanks to manfred drilling it into him his whole childhood that puzzles are dumb or whatever. you know how manfred is. 

he used to give phoenix hints for free as a kid but he REFUSES to give any hints as an adult, even when offered hint coins (all his unlocked hints would be some degree of “too difficult for you, wright?” or something. i dont know dialogue but hopefully you get the gist)

alright thats it. this is really long and i dont think ive touched on everything but this is probably a good place to end it. if youre still reading this thank you. i hope this post is actually readable

[multiverseinteract]

The Labyrinth- 11:20 am

Clive approached the massive structure first, stopping in front of the open gates.

"It.. Looks like the entrance to a maze," Cyrus said.

"A Labyrinth, such as in legend," Trecero croaked out. His voice was hoarce, and obviously weak, but he'd come back around enough and was wide awake.

"Legend?" Cyrus questioned quickly, "Like... Old Greek myth, legend?"

"Er.. What's Greek? I only know an old story I heard once, from my buddy Trust. His story was about a legendary Labyrinth located in the center of what he called 'The Underground'. Some dungeon stuff that I never ended up doing. It was legendary, apparently. Trust never found it," Trecero explained.

"Ah, that makes... Some sense. Dungeon stuff, though? Like.. Is that a norm?"

"Yeah, actually. Dungeons and adventures and missions and stuff like that. Our worlds pretty wild compared to yours, huh?" Farrow chimed in.

"Well, it sounds like you're just living in the world of Dungeons and Dragons. See I've got explosions, and mafias, and poison gas explosions, more explosions, guns, zip lining, life threatening situations all the time, living the life in my world. I have a corvette!" Cyrus seemed to take pride in everything he said, which surprised Rascal a bit.

"Cy, you talk of that really lightly,, you were in therapy for months after the poison gas incident, and the mafias-? Don't you remember what they did to y-" Cyrus quickly cut him off with a nervous laugh.

"Nah nah, it's all over now, I'm fine! That's just our world, you know?"

Rascal instantly caught the distraught tone in Cyrus's voice, but didn't say anything further.

"... You have a corvette?! And you know about DnD too!? The hell? A nerd secret agent? Awesome!" Alex was obviously stoked over the whole situation, and Rascal was left in awe that the corvette was what he got excited about.

"What's... DnD?" Farrow dipped an ear in confusion, and Trecero just shrugged and gave him a 'don't even bother to ask' look.

Clive approached the entrance to the Labyrinth, peering inside.

"Guys, let's focus on the maze thing. This feels important," he said, catching everyone's attention.

"Look at the top of the walls.. They are covered in spikes," Marque pointed out.

"And barbed wire, it looks like. Damn, this things high security.. They really don't want anyone cheating, huh?" Albi added.

"Guess not... Do you think it's that important, or is it a game?" Molly asked, "Like, it might just be a dungeon challenge or whatever Trecero said. Not worth our time."

Clive took a step back, considering the possibility.

"Well... Does it look like there's a way around?" he asked to Molly, who turned to look down and check.

"... There might be. I think I see a light curve at the end there. I can go check if-"

Cutting Molly off, Clive suddenly let out a yell and tried to jump back. His foot was caught, almost glued to the ground as a black form grew up his leg.

"That's an issue!" Alex yelped as both he and Albi leapt at the same time to assist him. Though, their combined efforts, along with Cyrus, Rascal, and Marque, did nothing but nearly break Clive's leg. The substance just grew more, until it had covered him up to the chest.

"Fuck! Get me out of here!" Clive wheezed lightly while still gripping onto Albi. His voice switched to an almost squeaky, audibly frightened tone as the black reached his neck.

"It's crushing me-"

Albi kicked at the source of the black, and drew back his foot in pain. Nothing he was trying was working, and soon before him, Clive was entirely covered, and suddenly the black dropped in a puddle back onto the ground, seeping into the concrete before disappearing.

"Clive!" Albi yelled as he dropped onto the ground, still smacking at the ground.

"What the fuck-? What- happened-?" Cyrus took a step back, now in fear for his own life. He tightened his grip on Rascal's hand, and Rascal didn't bother correcting his language this time.

"Albi. Look- there- in the Labyrinth. It appears similar to that of the portals the crystals create- come on, let us hurry!" Marque tugged Albi to his feet and they both took off towards the shadowy opened portal. There was a man waiting at the entrance, and as Albi tried to run right through the portal, he was met by a clear wall, stopping him cold.

He looked into the eyes of yet another familiar man.

"Oh, Albert, dear old friend. Yet from another world, I can easily tell," the man gave Albi a sinister yet surprisingly polite grin. He was dressed in a pinstripe suit and fedora, with a golden tie tucked neatly into his jacket.

"Jacque. From another world? I remember you from mine.. You lived in my world. Where is Clive?" Albi almost snarled back at the man.

"Oh not to worry, he's just fine. He's spending some time with me," the man, "Jacque", moved aside to show Clive, who'd already been strapped down in a steel chair in the center of the room.

"Clive! Clive can you hear me?!" Albi pounded on the invisible wall stopping him from strangling Jacque instantly, and Clive looked up.

"Albi-?" Clive squeaked out. Clive wasn't normally afraid, but seeing Jacque again, the one man that had bested him in the past, gave him a new sense of fear he'd never felt before.

"We're going to play a game! If you know me in your world, you know how this works already. Me and my games..." Jacque chuckled to himself.

"What game?" Marque growled, as the rest of the team was joining behind the two.

"You're going to solve my Labyrinth. Isn't that going to be fun? Clive here is located in the center. As is the core crystal you're searching for," Jacque held up a fire shaped crystal that looked like a dark smokey quartz, "The Faded Flame."

Albi blinked in surprise and moved his hands away from the portal.

"If you make it to the center of the maze, Clive goes free, you get the Faded Flame, and you can go on your way," Jacque said, and for a minute, the offer sounded good.

"However," his sudden drop in tone gave everyone an awful feeling, "Until you reach the center, I am allowed to do whatever I please to Clive. He belongs to the Torturkammer, until you reclaim him."

Albi's expression dropped upon hearing his words, and without hesitation he cried up.

"What did your world Clive do to you that would make you go after an entirely different one!?"

Jacque simply grinned, setting the Faded Flame lightly on a nearby table, that was covered as well in shining blades and tools laid out in a neat line.

"Oh, I have nothing against you, however, Clive, in my world, had a friend... He beheaded me. Cut my head clean off with a bloody butcher's knife. The sorry excuse of a man murdered me in my sleep in cold blood, but even the dead don't forget. Of course, when Neptune appeared, it was my chance at salvation. I am alive again. But seeing that someone is tampering with that, especially him-" Jacque gestured to Clive, "Sends a rage through me like nothing ever did before."

"I know you," Cyrus spoke up quietly, stepping forward, "From my world."

"Ah! I didn't see you there, Cyrus old boy. Long time no see, how are your lashes doing, may I ask?" Jacque grew a new snarkiness in his tone, and Cyrus recoiled lightly.

"Healed. You're lucky you're protected by this damn portal, or you'd be dead!" even Cyrus was displaying a new anger, which surprised Rascal, and admittedly scared him a bit.

"Oh no, dear... But we don't have much time to talk. I'll see you at the center," Jacque smirked and tipped his fedora, "Good luck surviving. But don't worry! I'll give hints on how to get to the center. All you'll need to do is follow this sound!"

Jacque pulled a small remote from his suit pocket and pressed a button, and a sharp electrical sizzling and a blood curdling scream came from behind him.

"No- Clive!! Jacque, don't hurt him!!" Albi cried, once again trying to get through the barrier, "Clive hang on, we're gonna get there!! I promise!!"

"I'll keep him alive for you, but the condition you find him in depends on how quickly you manage to get here, and only if you survive."

And with that, the portal closed, and the team was left in the darkness, facing the Labyrinth.