#but that doesn’t negate the hurt that’s been put on me by ppl who took advantage of my kindness and understanding

[yvmoveon]

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[duchessofostergotlands]

Hi Jessica so maybe I understood what William said in another way but I don’t think that he was referring to being LGTB as being a choice, I think he was referring to his children choices in general. He will respect whatever they choose to do.

Hey jess so about what William said it was definitely ambiguous but I understand what he say that he will support their decision of ‘coming out’ of them saying I’m gay or lesbian, LGTB. Not that being gay is a choice but of the choosing to make it public.

Will was talking about how he was worried about ppl’s reaction to his kids being gay. Obviously the only way ppl could learn that was through them deciding to come out publicly. Hence decision was the right choice of words, I think. But even otherwise, it was a free conversation, unrehearsed and unplanned and unscripted; it would have been a slip. Why cant we just enjoy the victory that it was for ppl like me? I’m gay&young& religious so hearing the future head of COE say that felt wonderful...

Actually in William’s defense re the use of the word decision, my thought immediately went to what the kid may decide to do after talking to Will and Kate - whether they’d want it to stay in a small circle of people who would know (hard but maybe doable - I mean there’d likely be whispers but nothing confirmed) or if he or she would like to come out on the world stage. I want to believe he was talking about that. Because it’s one thing to come out privately - publicly? That’s another Looking at what Will said in context a little more it does seem that he's not talking about sexual orientation being a choice that he'd support but more about any life decisions they might make that he'd fully support. I think he does have some understanding of the fact the orientation isn't a choice but I appears that his comment has to do with his talk of being in the public eye and pressure his kids will face no matter what personal and relationship decisions they make. More tact though Will! Re: William saying he’d support his kids regarding their choices when it comes to being gay, I took it as he meant he’d support their choice to come out or to stay closeted, whatever made them more comfortable. He didn’t word it the best but that’s what I thought he meant, not that being gay is a choice.

I understand what anon means because I thought the same thing initially about her decision quote. But I also think he could have meant their decision to come out and make that public knowledge because he was talking about their position as public figures. We’re not gonna know either way because you can’t tell from the video but I don’t think it’s completely fair to criticise him for that when he might have easily meant something different.

I watch the video and it seemed like he was answering about the coming out part. So like saying he’d support whatever decision they would make when it come to that

Let’s look at what I actually said, shall we?  “I have to say I thought exactly the same thing. I have to say as a disclaimer that I I haven’t seen any video or anything so I’m not sure of the context but I thought the same thing (edit: I have now seen the video). I’m surprised not to have seen it picked up. I hope that he continues working in this area but also that he takes the time to learn more about some of the stereotypes and myths people perpetuate”

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This is going to be long so buckle up kids

Where in that did I say that it wasn’t a slip? Where did I say that it couldn’t be treated as a victory? Where did I say that he definitely meant that being gay is a choice? None of those things are in my post, some of you have just projected this view on to me based on nothing. I worded my response very very carefully because I wanted to be sure that I wasn’t saying “WILLIAM HATES GAY PEOPLE” as that’s clearly not true but I didn’t want to give him a free pass either when his words were in poor taste. I covered the day more than I cover most William engagements, I reblogged a lot of the quotes and posts, I was really pleased to see him do this engagement. And yet this is the one that gets attention when I didn’t actually say half the things you’ve said anyway!

So for the record my view on it: William was asked how he would feel if one of his children was gay. Neither he nor the young person mentioned coming out explicitly. He said he would respect their decisions. That’s the situation. Now my thoughts:

I think it’s very possible that William didn’t mean that being gay is a choice. But the statement was ambiguous. Watch the video again. The fact that even in these asks you guys can’t agree on what he meant- was it his children’s choices generally or specifically about coming out?- shows that ambiguity. And this isn’t ambiguity around something harmless, it’s ambiguity around the very identity of LGBTQ+ people. There are lots of people who would think of themselves as accepting of the community who still lack understanding around the fact that it isn’t a choice. They don’t realise how hurtful that perspective is and has been. The idea it’s a choice underlies really damaging and prevalent issues like the use of conversion therapy. It’s a very sensitive idea so being clear is important. Ambiguity is not a good enough defence to white wash a poor choice of words. “I know what he meant” isn’t good enough for me. It might be good enough for you, and that’s your call, but that doesn’t mean it’s good enough for me or for the anon who initially brought it up. If it’s not what you mean, say what you do mean instead

We don’t know that William was specifically talking about coming out rather than being gay because this is the first time he has ever visited an LGBT youth charity. He’s touched on the subject before but in very general terms. He is very very new to this area. You can’t get better and learn if people don’t tell you when you make a mistake. 

You didn’t actually bother to ask me about this but the fact that it was an unscripted conversation and that it wouldn’t have gone through KP beforehand like a documentary or a campaign video is an important factor and is why I don’t think that it has to define the entire visit. I never wanted it to! I think putting a red flag for him to improve in the future is enough in this instance 

Me saying that William was tactless in that comment and should have thought it through more doesn’t mean the rest of the event wasn’t fantastic. I’ve blogged about it a ton. It was great. The comment doesn’t negate the fact the engagement was great and the fact the engagement was great doesn’t negate the fact that the phrasing was poorly worded. Those two realities can co-exist. I can think he should be more careful next time but not think it means he’s a homophobic twat. 

That one from the religious person riles me to be honest. It reminds me of this comment Piers Morgan made recently. Someone said that men ruled politics and he said they didn’t as, amongst other things, the Prime Minister is a woman. Now putting aside that she’s not a woman, she’s an evil robot, it is great to have a female PM. But that doesn’t erase the fact that after 300 years of Prime Ministers two have been women, and both were white women. Or like when people used Obama’s presidency as evidence racism wasn’t such a big deal in the US. It was fantastic to have Obama as a President. Let’s celebrate that. But also let’s remember that he was the first one after dozens of white men and no women have had the job at all. You can celebrate victory while also recognising where you still have to make progress. 

[cowboylikedean]

Anonymous Said:

What I was trying to say yesterday with the asks that didn’t go through…it makes me sad that haylories feel the need to devalue H&Ts other relationships (another sign of tinhatting. Larries are fond of this too). Take their most recent relationships/flings/whatever. Haylories were crying “PR!!!!” For both hiddleswift and hendall. Taylor was on a break and so was harry. Why would they need PR? And both looked pretty happy with those ppl, so haylories find excuses for why they were happy. “Well harry and Kendall were always drunk on that yacht”. “Tom is an actor, he pretends for a living and Taylor was acting too”. And they ignore the similarities between haylors relationship, and harry and Taylor’s other relationships, which is again cherry picking their proofs. Harry and Taylor share clothes/accessories = it’s true love! Harry and Kendall share clothes/accessories = it doesn’t mean anything, harry does that all the time OR (my favourite) it’s a coincidence and they probably had the same hat before. Taylor and harry go on public outings holding hands, and Taylor meets Harry’s family = true love! Taylor and tom go on public outings holding hands and Taylor meets toms family = PR!obviously!! It makes me sad. I saw on a confession blog someone said about Larries that they’re not actually fans of the real Harry and the real Louis, but fans of the fictional relationship THEY’VE created, and I think haylories have gone down that path too. I don’t have hope that they’ll ever be supportive of Taylor and harry end up with other people. They’ll both be married to others with kids and haylories will still be sitting here crying “PR!”

~this is a very long reply sorry i got carried away~ I agree on all of this. It’s really frustrating. 

Particularly because it leaves no room for ambiguity. This is what bugs me about all tinhatters... this idea of All Or Nothing. To them, it’s not possible that hiddleswift and hendall were real and Harry and Taylor will always mean a lot to each other. By their actions, hiddleswift and hendall seem to cancel out the love and connection Taylor and Harry have to these people.... Which is ridiculous. That’s not how people work. Just because someone matters doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t. Like shit.. my parents divorced when I was 6. My mom remarried when I was almost 18. My parents aren’t in love with each other and they’ll never be together again (thank god), but the matter deeply to each other. My dad is still a very important person in my mother’s life, not just as the father of the three children they share but also as her first husband and a relationship she saw lasting forever. A wirlwind that lasted 14 years total and started with an accidental meeting that turned into a first date because neither wanted to say goodbye. The fact that my parents’ history matters enough to my mom that it is one of her favorite things that she can say that through all of it, the fights and bullshit of the downfall of their relationship and aftermath, they have come to a point where they’re friends doesn’t negate her relationship with her current husband. My mother’s current marriage to her husband doesn’t mean that her relationship with my father isn’t or cannot be one of mutual trust, love, care, compassion, and friendship as it is. The same goes for Harry and Taylor. Any relationships they get in don’t negate their love and care for each other. 

It takes me back.. last year this time, Harry was getting off the yacht.. actually that was a year ago today (thanks facebook lookback lol). Taylor was dating Calvin. We all knew this. They didn't call tayvin PR because they weren't this bad in early 2015 when tayvin started... but New Years Eve 2015/2016 when we got the first photos of the yacht, haylories stood with others who hate hendall because it challenges their view of Harry and his personal life calling it PR. This was the beginning of haylories actually using larries to back them up. During this five day period of yachtgate, I saw several haylories reblogging larries with their illogical reasons why the yacht was a PR stunt... 

Things like: “why are they standing where they know the paps can see them” (ridiculous - it’s a yacht. There’s not that much room. Also, I know they’re great photos.. but it’s not like the paps were on a little boat right next to the yacht... it’s called long lens cameras... the same kind that caught Taylor in Hawaii.) or “that’s too much PDA for it to be a normal vacation” (lololol they’re on vacation?????) to “why is Jeff also on the yacht? why are they signing papers? see? It’s about business.” (Jeff is Harry’s best friend??? and like we don’t know what the papers were (harries who tell you otherwise are full of shit too) and also it’s none of our business???) or “the only reason ellen would be on the yacht is because it’s PR” (??? i still to this day don’t know why ellen was on that yacht other than a personal reason like happening to be in St. Barts and being invited to chill. how does this even make sense) 

And like don’t get me wrong, I participated in some of that shit... but I also never seriously used the phrase “PR stunt.” I always saw it as a vacation fling that was made Extra and Over The Top by paps, fans, and our good friends the media and general public. The haylories literally and seriously saw it as a PR stunt. 

PR for what? Well I’ve only ever gotten the answer about PR for Kendall... the newest season of KUWTK was coming up and they needed hype... But what about Harry? Nothing. The harries have chimed in and said it was “to distance Harry from 1d and the 1d image” which makes no sense.. but haylories have offered nothing.

Same with hiddleswift. Haylories and others who believe it was PR talk about what PR Tom could need or get from it... putting his name in the forefront of people’s minds while the Bond considerations were happening for instance. Promo for the filming of Thor for instance... But there’s nothing that Taylor was promoing. Nothing she could have been promoing. It was bad press for her and contrary to the saying, some press is bad press.... So wtf was the PR angle? 

And then this leads me to......... 1. I have always said it’s really sad seeing haylor stans of all people accuse a ship of being PR. We all know what it’s like to see that happen and literally... Hunters and foxes much??? like not to be That Taylor Stan but like... IKP isn’t just talking about the media and the GP. It’s talking about fans who accused PR stunt and used that as an excuse to be invasive and nasty too. OOTW refers to “couldn’t take the heat.” That heat is all of it. The fans too. We should know more than anyone why that shit is harmful and we shouldn’t do it.

but 2. You refer to a confessions blog that says that the larries aren’t fans of Louis and Harry but rather the fictional relationship between them that they created... And like.. I’ll take that a step further and say what many others have said as of late... the larries are actively against Louis and Harry. They fling personal insults at Louis and his family. They yell negative things about potential Big Moves for Harry’s career. They’re nasty and they work against them as people and professionals. The same is true here. 

I have no idea what happened between hiddleswift, but I think it would be foolish to rule out the idea that the bad press and negative fan reaction wasn’t a part of it. If it got to haylor, who’s to say it wouldn’t get to hiddleswift? Either way, it wasn’t nice and the stuff people were saying about her was nasty. 2015 was a tough year for this fandom, and I’ll be the first to admit that some of the things we all as people who didn’t like tayvin said and did were not okay. It was heartbreaking to see that carry over to summer 2016 with even nastier stuff being said for less. Seriously... I remember there were some fans that took photos on their phones of the yellow dress before the paps showed up and people were saying how she’d called them. I saw people say that say that she’d instructed random strangers to take photos of her. That is ridiculous! 

And then as for hendall.. When the Anne iCloud leak happened, these people fed, contributed to, and used for their own beliefs the larries’ posts (again) about how this leak was a fake done for PR reasons to push the narrative that hendall was dating. They opted for harassing Anne, Harry, and family and making fun of them... saving the photos that their legal team was trying hard to get off the internet and reposting them with long explanations about why that photo was “obviously fake.” Speculating stuff about how it’s “weird” to have so many pictures of your son and his vacation girlfriend. Posting about how why would Harry have taken photos with Anne’s camera. Making mountains out of molehills. It was obvious that Anne, Harry, and family were hurting and frustrated by the whole thing... and the haylories were fucking awful!

It’s just clear to me that Taylor and Harry and their personal wellbeings don’t mean that much to these people. The Idea of Haylor as an Established Romantic Relationship means a lot to these people... but Taylor Swift and Harry Styles as people... not so much.