#but seriously it feels like youd rather respect the well-being of non-existent people than respect the feelings of irl ppl

[bananasfosterparent]

(since the reply is one relative to me)...

Here's the long and short of it:

It's C O N T E X T. It's roleplay.

My bard, both my druids, my cleric, and first bard turned druid would all agree with your point. Ascension is evil and no life is worth more than another. Astarion has done nothing and cannot do anything to make his worth more than anothers because a life is a life, and sacrificing the others only prevents them from the opportunity Astarion got lucky to have. Freeing them is his chance to return that kindness and they've done nothing to not deserve that same opportunity. And I would also like to see more content about them in the actual game.

We all understand this. It's why I have Tavs who believe in this and strongly and proudly take that stance.

But what you don't seem to understand is that for most AA fans, our "it's okay to sacrifice the other spawn" stance is completely within context of the Tavs/Durge paired with AA and their individual playthroughs. And for many of us, that reasoning to help him ascend is a better/positive/more fun/more cathartic roleplay experience than the alternatives. So we prefer it and defend it for ourselves as fans and for our characters, because within their own context, it's a good choice to make. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Because none of it is real. Astarion is not real. His story is not real. His siblings and their story is not real.

But real people can get different things out of it. Seeing it differently does not negate or invalidate other ways of viewing it.

Sacrificing 7006 spawn + Cazedor doesn't have any negative impact on real life nor does it say anything about the moral standing of real people being attacked over a video game choice.

And no, there is simply no world in which killing 7000 people, of whom all have been abused before, while at least several thousand of them are innocent, is "the good thing".

In a fantasy world, you can actually imagine how different outcomes of the same issue might turn out, and control how the narrative is seen within its own context. And no one irl gets hurt or affected.

As a fan of Astarion and member of many Astarion specific groups, I understand how the AA ending can be a complete negative and cautionary tale for some. BUT as someone who has been through DA, who's friends with other AA fans with their own traumas, I also understand those of us who connect to his story in a different way and find his ascension cathartic and positive as a roleplay option. Are we just connecting to Astarion "wrong" and must we be "corrected" by those smarter and more media aware than us to show us the truth? Because that's how it feels people against AA fans think.

Hate AA! Or love AA as an abusive person. Please, it allows for variety within the fandom and is cathartic for many players.

But please try to understand that hating on AA fans and trying to correct us for finding that catharsis elsewhere, in different ways...only feels disrespectful, condescending, invalidating, and unnecessary.

We're not asking for you to understand it or follow along. We simply just want people to understand that there is no "one true way" you're supposed to see Ascended Astarion and that viewing it as a positive does not go against canon or hurt anyone. It does not render the abuse narrative null and void. It does not take away from it.

And I know there's a cowriter who said that ending can only mean Tav is sexualizing AA and that he's "ruined". But if you can't see that was a personal opinion of that cowriter and that they can't dictate how each player roleplays, then I really don't know what to tell you.

It's simply an alternative interpretation, opposite of the abuse interpretation. And yes, the way you see his story and the other spawn is one valid and respectable interpretation. Not a singular conclusion that you have to agree with. Even if you cannot fathom otherwise being valid, that doesn't make it invalid.

I was not influenced by anyone when I began to prefer AA. I went into the romance and the entire game itself completely blind and unknowing of what would happen. For me, the ascended ending offers more positives, sparks joy, and the outcome makes the sacrifice worth it for that Tav, her moral standing, her personal views, and her warped values. And I as the player am free to indulge in it as a positive all I want.

The positive reasons given are ones that justify that choice for the Tav I have paired with AA. To justify it NOT irl, but to justify it within her narrative so that it makes logical sense as a story and her personal development journey lines up. And to justify it as a cathartic/enjoyable RP experience for me as a player.

For most AA fans (at least ones I am friends with and in private groups with), that is the case.

Just because you cannot fathom roleplaying such a perspective, and just because that perspective doesn't spark joy within you, does not make it invalid, anti-canon, stupid, or wrong.

We see the same cut scenes you do. We hear the same dialogue you do. We read the same dev notes and writer interviews. But we have different eyes, different irl experiences, different traumas, and different ways of viewing and dealing with those traumas. We want different things out of the story. Interpretating an open-ended story in a way that's not popular doesn't mean it's inherently wrong.

And you can view the story as being non-negotiable and non-open-ended if you want. But the story and Astarion himself are art. And art is meant to be seen and interpreted however the viewer decides in their brain. Even if one of the cowriters doesn't personally see it that way. Even if you cannot personally fathom seeing it that way.

Astarion, his siblings and his "victims"

I wrote a blog about how I really do not get those folks, who do honestly in their heart believe that Ascending Astarion is the "good" ending. And frankly, the comments that AA fans left underneath really make me just shake my head.

One of the people understanding my point also put a really good comment underneath:

Because I really get the feeling that the AA fans do not even consider the siblings and the "victims" of Cazador as actual characters within the story.

And yes, sure. From a writing perspective they are not big characters. I mean, the siblings do have very little in terms of background. Some have a bit more (mostly Leon and Darylia), the others a bit less, and then there is Yousen, about whom we know nothing but the name. And out of the other 7000 we obviously only really do know Sebastian in any regard. Which from a writing perspective is absolutely fair, because the focus definitely is on Astarion. Yet, the interactions you do have with the siblings - and with Sebastians - are meant for the player to understand that this is about empathy.

It is very likely that pretty much all of the siblings got abused just as much as Astarion - or at the very least lived in the same fear of abuse as Astarion. They are all the victims, even though it is fairly likely that they also abused each other. That is just something that abusers use in their advantage: Trying to get their victims to abuse each other. BUT that does not stop them from being victims.

And yes, it is absolutely heavily implied that some of Astarion's "Victims" also have raped him (same with the other siblings). Because as he was ruled by the order of Cazador to bring him victims he had not even a lot of chance to fight back. But we know that is not true for all of those 7000 souls. Some of which will just be purely innocents, who got seduced or kidnapped, and who have at times been made to suffer endless hunger in that dungeon for at times 100 and 200 years!

This means that to ascend Astarion, what you do is to kill a lot of innocent victims of abuse. More than that, you are with it condoning the abuse their abuser had put them through - because you are quite literally enacting the plan this abuser has come up with.

I feel this is a big thing that is also missed with the Vellioth memories. While Vellioth obviously would have prefered to live and go on abusing Cazador for years and years to come - he is also proud for Cazador to defeat him and then continue the circle of abuse. Because in Vellioth's minds he has "taught him well".

While yes, Cazador wants to ascend himself, at least if Astarion ascends all the planning for the ritual, and all the "lessons" he has taught were not for nothing. Astarion will continue Cazador's legacy. He will simply become the next Cazador, until inevitably one of his own spawn will rise up against him and so on and so forth.

If Astarion ascends, Cazador lives on through Astarion. Because in that case Astarion does all the things Cazador would've wanted to happen.

Of course we as players are biased for Astarion, because not only is he the one vampire spawn we know, but we really get to know him really good. Not the very least given the fact that Astarion also is literally the companion with the most playtime for his companion quest. But just for a thought experiment imagine that by sheer luck one of the other spawn also has gotten loose from Cazador and was doing a quest with some of their own companions, while Tav/Durge, Astarion and other companions were doing theirs. And now imagine that other spawn - no matter who of the other six it might have been - went in wanting to sacrifice everyone else, including Astarion, to ascend themselves.

I can guarantee you, that each of them could have made as much of an argument for it, as Astarion.

Would you still think that would be a good thing?

By all means, argue about the fact of how good the relationship between Ascended Astarion and your own Tav/Durge might be. How it is totally not an abusive relationship despite the non-consensual choking...

But that does not change the fact that the ascension itself is a bad thing that is going to continue Cazador's plan and Cazador's legacy.

And no, there is simply no world in which killing 7000 people, of whom all have been abused before, while at least several thousand of them are innocent, is "the good thing".

... Also, I just want more fandom content about the vampire siblings, because I just think they are neat.