#but much smaller than base game radahn

[i-28-29]

Why did Miquella lowkey twinkify Radahn using Moghs body

[miquellah]

⚜️ SOTE Impressions Survey Results ⚜️

Earlier, I cycled around a survey to get opinions on the story of Elden Ring's DLC, and 101 respondents answered!! Following through with my promise, here are now all the results as recived.

Most all of these responders are likely from Tumblr, with potentially just a few from Twitter. To my knowledge this was never posted anywhere else, so these results can likely be best considered the thoughts of a good chunk in the Tumblr sphere of players!

I've done my best to make everything sufficiently readable, but there's still quite a bit in length here, apologies. The text on the actual charts may or may not be difficult to actually read, but I've given small summaries after each question to try and mitigate this.

First, the basic demographic questions:

These two were optional, but almost entirely filled by all respondents nonetheless. It’s a pretty good split between gender! I half wish I’d made it more specific just for curiosity, but eh. Age range is primarily 19-25, with 26-30 second place.

A question to determine how familiar players were with Fromsoft’s soulsborne genre and writing. Most respondents are indeed Fromsoft regulars.

Most respondents fully expected Miquella to be Morally Grey before DLC release, with only a somewhat smaller amount expecting True Good over True Evil.

These speak for themselves. Base game lore has consistently high scores, whereas while DLC lore still has high peaks, there’s still much more of a spread haha.

Despite it all there’s more people saying the DLC lore coheres with base game more than not??

Have you changed opinions on the DLC's lore at any time since it's release? If so, how?

No (no elaboration) - 18 No change, i feel negative- 15 No change, i feel positive- 10 Yes, I feel worse- 2 Yes, I feel better now- 18 Yes (no elaboration)- 6 N/A- 7

And wherever there’s nuance it’s usually a lot of “yeah I see the vision, but some execution could ultimately have been better.” In hindsight this is also a question I should’ve made multiple choice…

A very high chunk of people were spoiled to any degree beforehand!

This question was due to all of the comparisons to Miquella as being similar to Griffith/initially expecting that of him before DLC. I think Berserk is a bit more popular in the Twitter/Reddit circles of fans, though.

Primarily high impressions of Marika, with veeeryy low levels of believing she’s justified. Only a sliver of hate.

VERY high opinions of Messmer! Very small justifications of his actions, much in line with his mother.

Very high impressions of Mohg overall, with a small slice of dislike, a tiny sliver of hate. People largely feel his actions are nuanced, with a small slice of more justified than not.

Miquella is by far the most divisive character! Albeit he still has some good chunks of Like and Love. Justification scores are much the same as Mohg, primarily complicated/nuanced.

More people feel Miquella is a child only in body, with a near-equal chunk feeling it’s open-ended/nuanced.

Surprisingly, most respondents do NOT believe in Mohg having sexual misconduct with Miquella… though perhaps some people felt this meant just with Mohg as a perpetrator, and not that there wasn’t iffy stuff at all? Nonetheless, this headcanon seems pretty prevalent in the community as a whole, but maybe that’s just due to all the loudest people with the crass jokes.

How do you feel about the writing choice of Radahn as Miquella's chosen king and consort?

Okay rather than try and take the stats for this one, I’m going to try and summarize the bulk of responses best as possible:

The least generous replies say this sucks ass. The most generous usually say “yeah, I see what they were going for, but the execution of this feels very flawed nonetheless.” One respondent states that the emphasis of Miquella’s plotline seemed to be on his choice of consort entirely, rather than his actual motivations or journey to get here.

Many people lament Malenia’s lack in things at all within DLC, past a single mention. A notable amount of people note that they would’ve been more accepting of the consort if it had ended up being Godwyn instead, because of the amount of weight he seemed to have in the base game lore alongside Miquella. At least one respondent laments the disservice “done to monsterfuckers everywhere” that we didn’t even get a physically  monstrous boss in the end.

There’s a couple of people who go “oh yeah this makes sense for the both of them and/or I saw the signs along the way”, but they never go on to elaborate… the longest responses are always from people who are most unhappy, or are fairly understanding, but still ultimately unable to end up terribly pleased with this plot point.

Overall the reception to this plot point is decidedly poor, with the main grievances being how little foreshadowing or apparent basis there was, and how it changed the context of things in base game– such as Radahn’s first boss fight, the battle of Aeonia itself, Jerren’s wishes, and the sacrifices of all the soldiers between both armies. Even any concerns over implications of incest are honestly low priority here.

By far my personal favorite response is “I couldve written a better plot twist with three hoyrs of sleep and a coca col”, so shoutout to that one.

(Bonus) Optional because she's not relevant in the DLC. How do you feel about Ranni as a character and her actions?

I’ll be honest, this one was just because I think people’s thoughts on Ranni are a great judge of narrative comprehension. HAHAHA. But out of 91 responders to this one, most everyone cleared!

The bulk of responses are ultimately “yeah what she did to Godwyn was fucked up, but ultimately I understand it”. A few respondents note her narrative of female autonomy, and state their own reflection in this. Several note that she is selfish, but some aren’t particularly condescending with this and say that by all means, she’s just like the rest of the demigods if not still better than them.

A small handful also note that Ranni and Miquella are essentially foils to one another, where Miquella gives up everything for the sake of his Age of Compassion, but Ranni finds a means to keep her soul. It’s noted that even with his well-intentioned ambitions, he still ultimately fails as a reflection of Marika, whereas Ranni cuts herself from the cycle entirely.

A good handful of responses are little more than “hell yeah girlboss” and “fuck yeah that’s my wife” lol. On the other end, there’s a couple of responders who talk about how much they hate how she’s waifu’d, some disliking her purely because of this. Only about 2-3 responses in here are ones I’d truly consider character hate (without any seemingly justified reason) though.

Overall she’s more praised than not, with most everyone acknowledging her motivations, complexity, and role in the story. She’s often noted for her foils with Miquella, her goals of autonomy and the subsequent sympathy here from cis and trans female responders alike, with many acknowledgments that she is still by no means a saint.

And that's all! Thanks again to all of those who responded, and once more to those who've now read all the results. I still have the individual responses saved, so if I wanted I could go through and try to discern if there's any patterns related to how certain outcomes in opinion happen... but I'm tired!!! Hopefully if nothing else, this survey was a nice way to reflect and to sate some curiosity ✨

[blaiddfailcam]

Miquella's lost Great Rune

Great Runes are unique imprints of the shattered Elden Ring bequeathed by Queen Marika unto her demigod children and stepchildren. However, only five of Marika's nine offspring are found in possession of Great Runes—neither Godwyn, Ranni, Miquella, nor Melina ever grant us one of these legendary artifacts.

(Frankly, I've debated with myself whether I should even bother writing this analysis considering plenty of fans have a deadset interpretation of Miquella's role based on cut content, coupled with the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC looming on the horizon that threatens to crush all our theories into dust. But, I figure there are still peculiar details worth ackowledging regardless of whether they mean much in the end.)

Great Rune general breakdown

In total, we acquire seven Great Runes throughout our journey. As listed in the key items inventory screen, they are:

Godrick's Great Rune

Rykard's Great Rune

Radahn's Great Rune

Morgott's Great Rune

Mohg's Great Rune

Malenia's Great Rune

Great Rune of the Unborn

Of these seven Great Runes, two are bestowed by characters other than Marika's direct offspring. Though Godrick is a demigod, he is merely a withered branch of the Golden Lineage that his Great Rune represents. The second is a bit more unusual. This is the Great Rune of the Unborn, held by Queen Rennala despite she is no demigod, and gifted to her by Radagon upon the dissolution of their marriage well before the Shattering.

But wait—how did Radagon get a Great Rune before the Shattering?

Great expectations

Although the Great Runes are regarded as the shards of the fractured Elden Ring, certain lore details suggest that even before the Shattering, Great Runes were fated for their respective demigods as if by resonance. This could explain why Godrick, weak as he is, possesses the Great Rune of the Golden Lineage itself, or why Radagon was able to give Rennala the Great Rune of the Unborn. (Furthermore, Ranni discarded her Great Rune, yet this would have had to have been prior to her corporeal death and the subsequent Shattering Wars triggered by the Night of the Black Knives.)

We as the player need only fetch three of the seven total Great Runes to "repair" the Elden Ring (two to be permitted by the Two Fingers into Leyndell, plus Morgott's unmissable Great Rune). No matter what, the Elden Ring is found whole at the end of the game regardless of how many Great Runes are recovered.

The Great Runes themselves are malleable things. Each one is warped in respect to their Shardbearer despite being fragments of the golden Elden Ring, taking on whatever traits defined their master while inflicting their mad taint in turn. Rykard's Great Rune writhes like the serpent that devoured and became him, and Radahn's burns in his resistance to the scarlet rot. Likewise, Mohg's is drenched with accursed blood, and Malenia's blossoms with the rot that festers within her. Even the very shape of a rune denotes its master, as indicated by the twin sets of Great Runes: Rykard and Radahn's (whose Great Runes even resemble the Erdtree eclipsing the moon), and Morgott and Mohg's.

Now wait a minute...

Hiding in plain sight

It's hard to ignore. As nonsensical as it seems, I can't overlook how closely the Great Rune of the Unborn resembles Malenia's Great Rune. They're even placed right next to each other in the inventory screen, despite the Great Rune of the Unborn is likely the second Great Rune the player will find, while Malenia's is typically the very last.

If Rykard and Radahn's runes reflect their relationship as brothers just as Morgott and Mohg's runes reflect theirs, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the Great Rune of the Unborn is actually Miquella's? He is Malenia's twin brother, after all. Should each Great Rune be visually altered in some way to symbolize its owner, it would make all the more sense that a notably smaller and pure gold Great Rune embodies Miquella's perpetual youth and his founding of Unalloyed Gold.

All this before unpacking how fittingly the Great Rune of the Unborn's function as a device for rebirth foreshadows Miquella's grim fate. Within the roots of the Haligtree watered with Miquella's own blood, the youthful demigod nestled into a cocoon in an attempt to rebirth into a proper god until his half-brother, Mohg, absconded him in his vulnerable coma. As such, Miquella remains quite literally unborn within his cocoon.

According to the Juvenile Scholar set, "Rebirth is as sleep to them." Upon each attempt to perfect themselves, the scholars are drained of their memories, devolving over time into mindless drones. Rennala herself is under a similar spell of dream-like delirium, as far as Ranni's dialogue posits. (Random fun fact: Rennala's eyes are golden in the first phase of her fight, but change to blue in the second phase when she recomposes herself as Queen of the Full Moon.)

It's not at all novel to infer that Miquella and St. Trina are likely one entity. Being a sort of patron saint of dreamtime, the Great Rune of the Unborn's effect of retaining coherence during rebirth would make it all the more appropriate for Miquella. The very function of the Great Rune as a protective charm against the adverse side effects of rebirth is reminiscent of the Unalloyed Gold Needle's use as a ward against Malenia's scarlet rot. Even her Great Rune depicts what looks to be a needle piercing the top right side of a ring, and the Great Rune of the Unborn reciprocates thus.

(While I understand that cut content would suggest Miquella was to possess a Great Rune symbolizing "abundance," and that abundance is still a vague notion in the game, I don't feel that this contradicts the Great Rune of the Unborn. We can see plainly that Rennala's rite reproduces scholars ad infinitum, despite their imperfections.)

With all this said and done, that leaves one last question: why?

A fate precluded

Upon his departure to the capital, Radagon gifted Rennala with a mysterious Great Rune, trapping her in a delirious spiral. If this rune was truly Miquella's, then how did Radagon acquire it if Miquella had yet to be born?

As aforementioned, Great Runes can be thought of as imprints, foretelling their destined demigods' function under the Golden Order. Radagon is Miquella's father, and his son was evidently fond of him in the days before the Shattering, offering him his newly discovered halo incantations to aid his decree. If Radagon was privy to the Elden Ring, the Golden Order, and its fundamentals, one could interpret that he was able to prevent his yet unborn son's fate by pawning his Great Rune.

Radagon himself is a peculiar figure. After a stalemate during his attack on Queen Rennala, he atoned for his transgressions and married her, siring three children. Rennala had become deeply infatuated with him, so much so that when he departed, her mind was left in pieces, and the Carian fates were fettered to the Golden Order. Perhaps most damning of all, Radagon destroyed Rennala's matrimonial gift of the Moonlight Greatsword and reforged it into the Golden Order Greatsword, devoid of its former magic in any capacity. The man cleaved ever to the future, hellbent on the perfection of the Golden Order—a leal hound, as Marika referred to him.

Miquella is referred to by Malenia as being the mightiest of all the demigods, despite she herself is evidently a terrifying force in her own right. The two are also Empyreans, indicating their destiny to succeed Queen Marika as the vessel of the Elden Ring, and as direct vassals to the Greater Will. Except, Radagon appears to have had little interest in permitting this fate. Ultimately, he becomes the acting god after fusing with Marika, his other half, and following her "death" as sentence for attempting to destroy the Elden Ring that bound her.

In order to achieve such, Radagon needed to devise an elaborate plot, playing both sides of the chess board to fulfill his ambition and prevent it from ever being toppled. Although Marika is blamed for the stagnant perpetuity of the Lands Between, it was Radagon who had everything to gain from the Shattering. Indeed, the three (possibly four) Empyreans chosen by the Two Fingers would have to be denied their fates to cement the Golden Order as truly eternal.

If the Great Rune of the Unborn is essential for a proper rebirth, certainly Miquella's attempt to resurrect was ill-fated from the start. Much like the amber egg, the cocoon he created as a vehicle for this transmogrification failed to carry him to his ascension. Mohg's abduction was certainly no help, but even still, Miquella grows within the cocoon, trapped in an unresponsive slumber. Thus, his dawn never breaks, and the Golden Order remains unwavered.

Further ramblings

I know this one was a doozy, and perhaps nothing but conjecture. Still, I can't unsee some connection between Miquella, the Great Rune of the Unborn, and oddly enough, Ranni. The implication of Miquella having been Torrent's former master, as hinted by the revealed Shadow of the Erdtree official artwork, certainly furthers the possibility of cooperation between Miquella and Ranni—maybe even a conspiracy.

Now watch me eat my words when the DLC drops and we get Miquella's Great Rune. Lol. Lmao. Regardless, the parallels are hard to ignore. Even if at first it would be easy to believe that the Great Rune of the Unborn is the rune that Ranni discarded, it doesn't make sense to me that Radagon would have then taken it to give to Rennala.

This could even indicate that Ranni and Miquella's fates were somehow crossed or intertwined. Perhaps the two of them appreciated this in the end, or at least used it to their advantage? I guess we'll have to wait and see what the DLC provides.

[eldritchtouched]

Always nice to find other people who question Ranni’s ending. I’ve always felt especially puzzled over why she insists removing the Ring will cause the outer gods to remove their influence, as we don’t see any of them actually make a move for the Ring. From what we see, they want to spread their influence and reshape/corrupt the world into whatever image they have. Their chosen agents/avatars/etc might be related to the Ring thanks to them all favoring Marika’s children as their first choice, but again… Who actually is pursuing the Ring? You can’t even count Mohg now with the DLC, as it’s impossible to say if his planned dynasty was originally planning to get involved before the DLC hit him with the Miquella nuke.

I'd point out that the Elden Ring seems to only be tied to Marika, the Elden Beast, and the Greater Will. The Elden Beast is tied to it and it is vassal to the Greater Will.

As you note, the other Outer Gods of the setting do not care about the Elden Ring. The only demigods who might've actively pursued the Elden Ring were Godrick and Radahn, given their actions in Leyndell. Nobody else did.

Regarding the situation with assuming Ranni can do that, this has problems,. If the Elden Ring is powerful enough to banish the Greater Will, there's a lot that doesn't make sense there:

Then Marika wouldn't need the plan with the Tarnished and a Godslayer weapon to deal with the Greater Will- she could just banish it outright. To kill the Elden Beast? What's the relation between the Elden Beast and the Elden Ring?

Why would such a powerful god create an artifact that actively would work against them and overpower them?

Can a god create something more powerful than them or not? If not, the Elden Ring cannot exist unless it's less powerful than the god who created it. If it's more powerful than them, then why give it to anyone if they clearly want to maintain their control over that person?

Why would none of the other larger gods then pursue the Elden Ring, even if only to make sure nobody could decide to banish them from the world?

Why do other Outer Gods have any power or influence in the Lands Between while the vassal of the Greater Will controls the Elden Ring, if it's that powerful and Marika's insistent on being seen as the only god followed?

That theory about Ranni makes no damn sense, really, given how much she's actively not with the Greater Will (and how the other divinities are associated with other rites).

Problem is, the DLC also now renders the Elden Ring completely pointless in the main quest's story. It's a MacGuffin in the base game to drive the plot along- get the shards to repair the Ring and become Marika's Lord (though Ranni and the Frenzied Flame are alternate paths).

The DLC basically says that Elden Ring isn't what made Marika a god and that Miquella's process for godhood is the process that she used in their attempts to parallel the two of them (rather poorly, imo, due to a bunch of reasons).

Problem is, as I've seen others point out, the Elden Ring is what made Marika become a god to begin with.

To expand on this, the situation with Malenia ascending to godhood in her boss fight via blooming, without either the Elden Ring or the Divine Gate stuff, implies that the process of ascension is supposed to be individual to the person. It really just feels like they were trying to shoehorn the Griffith/Berserk imagery with Miquella, and try to make Miquella into Marika's copy, and had to ignore the rest of the story to get there.

There's no reason for the Elden Ring to even exist now. There is no reason for Marika to have shattered it, nor for Radagon to have tried to repair it. If it isn't the cause of Marika's godhood, then shattering it does nothing to actually end her divinity. It also doesn't work if the idea is that it breaks her bonds to the Greater Will, because of how Outer Gods are intrinsically tied to their smaller gods, vassals, and worshipers without a random MacGuffin like a magic ring (which is what we see with Malenia and Mohg).

And, if it's simply a leash for her, then it makes no sense that any of the Great Runes give any powers at all, nor that the player can introduce Runes in the Mending Rune endings that alter the world, nor any of that.

Marika would know that there's no point to shattering the Elden Ring. Radagon would know there's no point to repairing the Elden Ring. As it now has nothing to do with their actual divinity or their power or the ties that bind them to the Greater Will. And, if we truly are supposed to go with the situation of Miquella being the parallel to Marika, then Marika shouldn't even want to end her divinity at all. She would've stripped herself down of everything but "I need to be a god" and thus would lack the internal conflict necessary to come to regret her divinity. (And the Miquella becoming Marika stuff seems... out of place to me.)

Though I generally get a bit leery about the "corruption" angle for the other gods in the story given the base game, because the thing is, the Greater Will has a name that implies it is all about compelling others to do its will. That it's overpowering others' wills, because the Outer Gods with names all get names that are descriptive labels of what they embody. The Scarlet Rot is literally the embodiment of the concept of rot and associated with the color red, for example.

(It would also make sense from the "stagnation versus change" angle that gods like the Scarlet Rot are only like they currently are because of the stagnation Marika caused by removing death. They're appearing as a 'corrupting' force because everything's out of whack. So this stuff that should be dead is still living, despite eternally rotting and thus in constant agony, in the case of the Rot. But the Rot can't stop being Rot because being Rot is its very nature.)

This implication that the Greater Will is a puppeteer shows up in the base game in a bunch of other ways. Marika and Miquella both have compelling powers in some capacity. Marika compels death and strife. Miquella can compel through charms and, for some reason, unalloyed gold is also able to affect one's will. (Unalloyed gold is a pure gold of the Golden Order's concepts- it has the ability to charm others; the bewitching branch is an unalloyed gold spell.) Marika's body is a husk when we find her. Radagon becomes a literal sword the Elden Beast uses against the player Tarnished. The scarseals and soreseals also imply that Marika and Radagon were compelled or had a duty and a burden because of the Greater Will as well.