#but lillie still ends up handing nebby over to the player and i STILL feel bad because im like shit man you raised that little guy

[puppyeared]

i think the reason why im so drawn to spirit tracks and pkmn scarvi is that having the legendary/princess as a companion rather than a goal that marks the games completion makes me feel satisfied the way i would after helping a friend

my brother always teases me about how I still havent finished botw after almost 7 years bc "id rather be out picking flowers" which i wont say is untrue. and yes i know Zeldas been holding off ganon for 100 years, yes i can get some sort of idea what her relationship with link was like by recalling memories and going through her diary. ive always loved botw for its unique storytelling and setting which makes it stand out, because it lets you get to know who you're saving.

but because theyre memories, it only works if theres something for the player to investigate that already happened. its retroactive (but effective nonetheless)

on the other hand, spirit tracks does something similar but instead of having the player try to piece together memories and interpret them as a spectator, you actually have an opportunity to get to know zelda yourself by talking to her and working together. besides making it a gameplay mechanic, giving the player control over how they interact with zelda makes it so much more personable.

and I find that making the goal feel personal instead of an obligation gives me more of a reason to work towards it. I know what kind of person botw zelda was but as the player, shes still very much a stranger to me. but spirit tracks zelda? thats my friend!!!! she invited me to go to the beach after we get her body back!!! i dont want to whip her to make her move faster thats mean :(

you know how hostage negotiators are trained to introduce themselves and get to know the person theyre negotiating with because its harder to hurt someone when you know what their favorite food is? its kinda like that, because it feels like im helping a friend than being told or led to do smth

and although i havent played scarvi myself, i feel an attachment to koraidon and miraidon even just watching playthrough clips because its like!! thats my weird scaly dog!! it loves sandwiches and we're friends!!! you know!!!!!!

[bluerosesburnblue]

MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm I’ve been rewatching a playthrough of Pokemon Sun and one of Ultra Sun back-to-back (just to try and gather my thoughts about what went wrong with Sword and Shield’s writing) and hitting the end of Ula’ula Island and the mini-arc after that just made me mad again about how the Ultra versions just completely butchered the emotional core of the original Sun and Moon’s plot and also how poorly the Ultra Recon Squad were implemented (which sucks because I like all of the URS members as characters, but the plot does them no justice)

Edited with two points that I forgot to include last night

So, alright. In the original Sun and Moon you have our lovely villain, Lusamine. She’s an awful human being. She acts sweet, but the second you don’t conform to her standards of beauty and perfection, you’re worth nothing more than utter disgust. Those standards? How willing you are to conform to her control and let her decide everything

Her goal? Open up an Ultra Wormhole and go to the world populated by the Ultra Beast Nihilego, the subject of her affections. This is worth enough to her that she’s willing to torture and kill an innocent baby Pokemon to do it. A Pokemon that her own daughter has bonded with, while said daughter screams at her to stop. But because Lillie stole that Pokemon in the first place and ran away, defying Lusamine’s control, then she’s ugly and not worth listening to

Everything makes sense and is treated with appropriate tone. Lusamine doesn’t care about getting back to her original world, so Cosmog dying while she summons a wormhole? Way more wormholes opening up than she intends? Not her problem.

The player and Lillie having to gather information on other ways to traverse worlds by summoning the Legendary Pokemon? Lillie’s primarily doing it for her own sense of closure. She’s choosing to be a bigger person than her mother by trying to save her from being stranded in another universe, but she also needs to air her grievances for everything her mother’s done to hurt her. And there’s also the matter of Guzma, who went in with Lusamine out of a manipulated sense of loyalty. While he’s a troublemaker and a jackass, he doesn’t deserve to be trapped in a dimension with hell jellyfish for the rest of his existence. So Team Skull begging you to save him? Warranted

And the postgame reveals that Nihilego venom make people act out their natural desires uninhibited in an effort to protect their species. They’re parasites. Lusamine was always a controlling, beauty-obsessed perfectionist (though these traits may not have started manifesting until she lost her husband to a wormhole), but her obsession with interdimensional jellyfish and the lengths she was willing to go for them was induced. The ending makes it obvious that she doesn’t think she was wrong, but she may be able to be rehabilitated

The game never tries to force Lillie or Gladion to forgive their mother for the abuse they suffered at her hands. Gladion pointedly never calls her “mother,” always “Lusamine” or “the president” and he still doesn’t later on. Lillie wants to rehabilitate her mother, but after the whole scene where she calls Lusamine out on her bullshit it comes across more as Lillie trying to be a good person by helping an obviously sick person and it still leaves open the possibility that if the rehab fails, Lillie may just leave. No matter what, their family will never go back to what it was. It can’t, because they’re all different people. But Gladion and Lillie now have Hau, Hala, the Player, Kukui, and Burnet as family to fall back on. People who care about them for who they are, unconditionally

And then...

There’s Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.

And I was honestly enjoying watching that playthrough up until the Aether arc hit. It was interesting to see how the trials were changed up and weigh the two versions against each other. I liked seeing the added dialogue for my boy Hau that really fleshed out his character. But the Aether arc...

So, alright. We have our lovely villain, Lusamine. She’s an awful human being. She acts sweet, but the second you don’t conform to her standards of beauty and perfection, you’re worth nothing more than utter disgust. Those standards? How willing you are to conform to her control and let her decide everything

Heard this before, haven’t we?

Except now the Nihilego venom is gone from the equation. Lusamine, in no uncertain terms, still tells Lillie that she has no children, “certainly not any wretched children who would run off and reject my love!” And then mocks her own daughter for wanting to save Cosmog while stating that she’s too worthless to even hang around the player character

And the game plays it off like she’s still a good person because her motivations have changed from “I wanna live with the toxic space jellyfish” to “yo if a light-eating inderdimensional monster destroys the world then it’ll fuck up my collection of cryogenically frozen Pokemon so I’m gonna kill it”

No, seriously. Lusamine’s now a good person because her daughter will be tangentially saved due to her trying to protect things she actually values

All plausible deniability she had is gone because there is no Nihilego venom in this version. Lusamine really is just that abusive and there’s no real possibility that she might’ve just had bad tendencies that she was keeping in check that got overridden by venom. She’s an abusive mother and there’s no getting around it. She still forced Lillie to dress like a Nihilego, except this time it was entirely about the control and not because she was being influenced by a glass parasite. Gladion still felt the need to run away with Type: Null because she was going too far, Lillie still felt the need to run away with Cosmog for the same reasons

The scene in the cryo-room just pisses me off so, SO much. Gladion calling her “mother” and begging her to let him take her place? And yet he still calls her selfish and still has his line about how “she’s real nice... as long as you mean nothing to her,” but also I guess loves her and wanted to protect her this whole time and that’s why he left? Fucking what? And it’s not like she didn’t show herself to be just as abusive as in Sun and Moon where he never forgave her! They’re forcing Gladion to excuse her abuse because she missed their dad I guess

Even if she calls them “good kids” in the very next scene, it still comes off of the heels of her verbally abusing her timid daughter for trying to stand up for herself! It just comes across like they’re only “good kids” because she expects them to go back to how they were before they left. She doesn’t care about who they’ve become at all

EDIT: And I forgot to bring up how stupid the thing with Cosmog is in that scene! Last time we got the impression that Nebby nearly died and was forced to evolve because Lusamine overtaxed them and forced them to open up way too many wormholes, because as long as she had one that went to the world of the Nihilego, she didn’t care what happened to the Pokemon world. Now she opens up one to a specific place... but still feels the need to torture Nebby to do it? And despite opening way less wormholes, Nebby’s still overtaxed and evolves? And Lusamine doesn’t bring Nebby with her, why??? Before, she didn’t care if she came back, but this time her goal is “beat Necrozma and come back to my collection.” So why does she jump through the wormhole with no way to get back? After intentionally screwing over the baby Pokemon that she would have needed to get back home???

And that’s not even the complete... just... dumbassery of the “we have to track Lusamine down” stuff. Because now instead of going to a world inhabited by only parasitic jellyfish and opening extra wormholes in the process, she and Guzma open one wormhole and go to a highly populated interdimensional city to piss off the local god, intentionally. And at that point, it’s less of a matter of saving them and more of a matter of cleaning up their mess

So you’d think the Ultra Recon Squad, interdimensional travelers who came to Alola because a hungry, furious legendary being was about to escape its prison and they didn’t have a way to stop it, would want us to get down to their homeworld as fast as possible to stop the local god from getting pissed off by two overconfident dumbasses. And what do they do?

“Yeah, if you play a flute you can summon a legendary Pokemon. We rode one here. Should be fine. What, no, we won’t help you look for the flutes.” But also, ten minutes later, “Stop! It’s our job to save our world, not yours! Lusamine betrayed us how can we ever trust you to help???”

The writing can’t keep straight throughout the game whether they just want to find strong trainers to take out their local deity before it goes on a cross-dimensional rampage or if they want to train themselves to be strong enough to take on the local god. But beyond that!

What’s the point of going through all this trouble to summon the legendary Pokemon when the URS already befriended the opposite version legendary and can just call it whenever? Especially since they do just that when Necrozma immediately absorbs the one you just awakened

No, seriously? What? We lose Nebby, who we have an emotional attachment to, immediately and have to rely on this other legendary that’s just... here??? I guess????????

One of the only things we know about the world of Ultra Megalopolis is that they don’t do the Pokemon thing, they just compensate for everything with extremely advanced technology! So why the fuck are they pals with a legendary Pokemon? Especially one that has lore in Alola, but not in Ultra Megalopolis?

And how the fuck do they know about the Alolan legend of summoning the legendary Pokemon, which they would never need to research because they have one already?

Literally why does Necrozma open like ten extra wormholes when it shows up. There’s no reason other than to have the extended “fighting Ultra Beasts” cutscene that no longer works because the Ultra Beasts aren’t important anymore now that they cut their postgame story out. And I know they go “Ah, Necrozma pulled in the villains from other universes! That’s why Rainbow Rocket...” Rainbow Rocket was just shallow pandering with no substance and wasn’t particularly fun to play. It wasn’t worth making the main plot nonsensical to have it in there. I would’ve much rather had a rewritten International Police postgame that includes the Ultra Recon Squad and has you traveling to the new Ultra Space areas to either return them to their natural habitats or just learn more about them to take care of them

EDIT: And why does Lusamine need Nebby at all, when the Ultra Recon Squad just had a legendary that they were gonna bring the strongest trainers to Ultra Megalopolis with? What makes her think they wouldn’t take her, their closest ally at the time? In the original, Nebby was the only way to get to other worlds. But they’re not in this version, so why does she go and hunt Nebby down instead of working with the URS or trying to steal their fully evolved world-hopping beast?

The whole climax is just tied together by utter nonsense. And it’s such a shame because I legitimately love the concept of the URS and Ultra Megalopolis and the general personalities of the four characters in it. It’s such a wasted opportunity because I guess they felt obligated to hit the same basic plot beats? Even at the detriment of their new characters?

And it’s such an easy fix, too. Just have the two URS members in the game be stranded on Alola. Their technology for dimension-hopping was experimental and based on their studies of Necrozma, who can hop worlds and who they have easy access to. But the inaugural trial is rushed because Necrozma’s looking to break free. Two members stay behind to monitor, two end up stranded in Alola with broken tech desperately looking for a way to get home in time to stop Necrozma

And that’s how they end up partnered with Aether, who have the most advanced tech in the region. It’s something they trust and understand, and Aether has the resources to help and a president who seems very interested in ways to get to other worlds. She’s even performing experiments already!

Unbeknownst to them, though, Lusamine’s only looking for ways to get to Nihilego as she still came into contact with their neurotoxin during experiments trying to find Mohn. Nebby’s kidnapped, several wormholes opened, Lusamine jumps into the Ultra Deep Sea to be with the Nihilego. Except this time, a wormhole opens up to Ultra Megalopolis where Necrozma is. It’s not long enough for Necrozma to get through, but long enough that it sees the light of Alola and knows exactly where to go when it breaks free...

You awaken Nebby and save Lusamine as in vanilla Sun and Moon. Then Necrozma breaks free, chases Nebby’s light through Ultra Space back to Alola, steals the light, bam. Back to where Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon kick off the climax. Maybe add in a section where you have to get the Dimensional Research Lab and Aether to work together to fix the Recon Squad’s dimension-hopping gear to break up the pacing. Save Ultra Megalopolis and Nebby. Now you’ve got something a little closer to Platinum’s additions to Diamond and Pearl instead of the butchering we actually got, complete with two climactic moments. One for Lillie, one for protag

Everything about and surrounding Necrozma’s addition was just so sloppily done, which is such a shame with how good both the base game and the ideas for expansion were

Also, move Mina’s trial and put Hapu’s back in its spot. I like having a trial for Mina, but why place two trials after the Necrozma climax? We just beat a god and you expect me to do trials? The original Sun and Moon understood that at that point you’re at the falling action of the story, may as well keep it succinct and only have it be the Pokemon League. And also, the Dragon trial is supposed to be this big, ancient final trial. Oldest of them all, the final task before being allowed to the Altar, Alola’s most sacred point. But now we have another trial and a Grand Trial after it?

Just have Mina’s trial as soon as you hit Poni Island and have the justification be that her trial takes you to the sacred sites of Alola where you can gather info on the legendary Pokemon. Bam. Lore opportunity. And if her trial’s also necessary for getting into the Dragon trial in a “you must prove your worth to the captains in a gauntlet for permission to enter the sacred final trial site” way, then even better. And Necrozma likes Z-Crystals, so you’d have even more stockpiled, further justifying its interest in you

And with Hapu’s Grand Trial back where it was, Lillie can have her Exeggutor Island fun. Which she could’ve had anyway and seriously why did you replace her with a nameless NPC in USUM?

I’ve had way too long to think about all of the ways I’d fix USUM’s story. And the sad thing is, if the story was better it’d be my favorite Pokemon game because the gameplay additions, new locations, and the fact that the game has sidequests make it near perfect otherwise and are the reason I always come back to Ultra Sun over Sun. But the abysmal climax to the story just doesn’t offer any incentive to replay the game at all

[zchaotic]

Things that Grind My Gears USUM and common complaints

1. People that said USUM butchered SM’s Story.

I loved SM’s story, I found Lillie’s growth to be amazing and I loved it when Lillie stood up to her mother. The story focused on her was great until the ending where Lillie went back to her mother to help her recover, it undoes most of her growth, we are given no indication that Lusamine has learned anything and the worse part, it ends the story with no closure.

Gladion also got stuck in a position pretty horrible, having to run the place he was abused in. It was a sloppy conclusion that dampened a great story.

Ultra Sun and Moon’s changes to the story are as followed; the Ultra Recon Squad being added in, focus on Necrozma as a villain, Lusamine’s motives being changed and how they affected her kids, Lillie’s focus and the post game.

While the Ultra Recon Squad didn’t do much besides foreshadow Necrozma and the pokemon could do a bit more for build up, Necrozma gave what is to me a better climax boss compared to Mother Beast.... in that we get to fight the fused alien monster.

Further more, USUM attempted to change Lusamine for a bit more than just fitting the Necrozma story, it tried to humanize her on screen. Something that SM DID NOT DO! For many, Lusamine in SM was an irredeemable, child abusing bitch and we didn’t get the info as to why she was doing things in the first place until the post game. Wrong place and wrong time for that backstory.

In USUM, they actually mentioned Mohn and add weight to Lusamine’s backstory. Him disappearing caused her downward spiral into the villain she became, who didn’t want to let things go. That is why she froze her pokemon and that is why she became such a control freak to her kids. This also adds to Lusamine’s “Mother knows best” mindset, where she believed she was right and everyone else should shut up and let her deal with things. Which is part of the reason she used Nebby for her goals this time, to feed that ego/ messiah complex and prove to everyone that she was right.

This dangerous thinking helped motivated Gladion when he took Type:Null and ran, he saw potential in the pokemon that Lusamine sure as hell didn’t. Gladion wanted to be free from that control and knew Type:Null was treated like dirt, so he wanted to give that pokemon a better life and prove its potential as a pokemon.

Lillie is a similar deal, she took Nebby and ran because she didn’t like how it was being treated. She did the only thing she could have done to stop this mistreatment and rescued the Cosmog. That is what lead to her escaping.

She still got inspired by you the player to become a trainer, change from the outfit her mother forced on her into her Z powered form, have a talk with her mother and have that goodbye with Nebby, in a more meaningful place and for reasons that make a bit more sense than. “I’m not a trainer.”

While Exeggutor Island was cut out and it was a bummer since that was less moments with Lillie. The majority of the things she said outside of what Lusamine use to be was moved over to Rainbow Rocket’s ending OR we got to see it. While Lillie’s talk with Lusamine was off screen, the girl told us what was going to happen so we can have an idea what was being talked about while we fight Necrozma.

We got to see Lusamine take that turn around for the better. It was no different from SM where Lusamine had a recovery off screen and Lillie decided to help her recover. (The later is worse for a LOT of reasons.)

While I admit that Lillie’s lack of focus made her part of USUM’s main story weaker, it gave a better conclusion to her family and other characters in comparison due to the following.

Lillie got to become a trainer on screen and continue to live with Kukui and Burnet, far away from Lusamine. Lillie still had around the same growth, though it isn’t the focus.

Gladion got to get away from Aether and live out life on his own with Silvally. He occasionally visits and there are signs that he isn’t in completely bad ties with his family.

Lusamine, though it is in dialogue, got an onscreen turn around. Thawed out her frozen pokemon after Rainbow Rocket/ was starting to do that, let her kids go and had closure with Mohn. A more believable redemption and closure compared to her SM ending where we see nothing but her as a villain.

Guzma had a bigger redemption arc as of RR.

The Captains have a last hurrah at Mina’s trial.

Hau had a more complete story arc where he takes things more seriously. I can close this story book and know how it ends for our characters.

Where exactly was things ruined outside of the lack of focus on Lillie? To me.... nothing.

2. USUM’s “Plot Holes” compared to SM.

In relation to the story, things play out the same way and the changes to Lusamine raised a lot of questions.

a. Why does Lillie still have the same look as in SM when Lusamine doesn’t have an obsession with Nihilego in USUM?

b. Why did Nihilego show up in USUM when Lusamine’s plans have nothing to do with it?

c. Why didn’t Lusamine use the legendary the Ultra Recon Squad have to go after Necrozma or why did the Recon Squad let Lusamine do what she did with Nebby.

d. Gladion’s reason for stealing Type:Null doesn’t make sense in USUM since it is just to get stronger and protect his family?

e. Why did they retcon Lusamine into “she didn’t do nothing wrong”/ Why is the game trying to depict Lusamine as a good person when she still abused her kids, has the frozen pokemon and tried to kill Nebby?

My answers are not popular... but here they go.

a. I did use to believe that Lusamine dressed Lillie up to resemble Nihilego, but then USUM changed that woman’s motives to where it had nothing to do with wanting that beast. But instead of raging about that “plot hole”, I believe that the resemblance is ultimately just a coincidence and nothing more in both sets of games. No one in the two sets of games has pointed out the resemblance. Just that Lusamine demanded Lillie and Gladion do what she says/ treated them like ornaments.

Lusamine was still such a control freak to her kids that she didn’t even let them pick their own look. They look what SHE wanted them to look/ do what she wanted them to do because “Mother Knows Best.” It’s pretty messed up, emotional abuse, it is why Lillie has little self confidence because she was treated as a child that should shut up and listen to the adult. It is how Gladion has all that frustration and need to do things his way.

Lillie changing her look and taking life into her own hands still has the same weight and impact in both sets of games. Lillie is stepping out of that smothering shadow and became her own person.

b. Nihilego showed up at Aether Paradise because the Aether Foundation was messing with Ultra wormholes. That is a given in both games, the reasons for the wormhole opening were different, BUT that is why the wormhole opened up. The Wormhole was just Nihilego’s, in SM that part was intended while in USUM it wasn’t.

c. Now for the legendary the URS have, that pokemon was their only ride in and out of home at Ultra Megaopolis, if they let their Solgaleo/ Lunala near Necrozma... that prism would eat them and they be screwed over. They let Lusamine do what she did with Nebby because it was a more acceptable lose/ result in a safer way to fight Necrozma in a more controllable way. The URS resulted to using theirs as a last resort when Nebby (You and Lillie’s only way into Ultra Space.) got eaten by Necrozma.

d. In USUM, Lusamine never had that obsession with the Ultra Beasts that escalated as it did in SM. Gladion took Type:Null and ran because 1. He had it with Lusamine’s abuse, didn’t like how she was treating Type:Null, stole it and ran to prove to that woman that she was wrong. With plans to come back once Null’s Power was realized. This can also split open in SM, where Gladion took Null and wanted to stop Lusamine, that woman was GONE and that boy’s only objective is to protect the family he had left and face his problems head on. So his change wasn’t that drastic and it opens him up more as a boy that has to manage quite a lot on his hands by himself.

e. As for the “Retcon!” There had to be a reason why Lusamine was nowhere near as extreme as she was in at SM. There was a reason why Lusamine’s goal had nothing to do with Nihilego in USUM. The post game of SM had this to say in the matter along with Guzma’s description of what Nihilego does to you.

From Wicke’s Note on Nihilego. “There have been sightings reported of this beast in Alola's past. Its most distinctive feature is its parasitic capability. When Nihilego latches on to a host, it does not manipulate its actions directly. Rather it awakens the host's own capabilities and boosts them to an extreme extent in order to protect itself. It injects the host with a sort of neurotoxin to achieve this effect. This neurotoxin of Nihilego's is incredibly stimulating and inspires feelings of extreme excitement and a lack of inhibition in its host. In other words, anything or anyone that a Nihilego latches on to will have its native skills forcibly activated to their fullest extent and will then act as it naturally desires to.”

This was the games attempt at trying to tell us that prior to SM’s events, Lusamine either got affected by the venom in some way or form... probably from the Wormhole experiments in opening the wormhole and trying to find Mohn or she kept focusing on the beasts and kept digging down the rabbit hole. Which was how she focused only on Nihilego and nothing else. It doesn’t excuse any of the crap she pulled, but it is the only real explanation we have and to be honest, she chose to dig that deep.

In USUM, Lusamine never got affected by that venom/ had something else to focus on and thus her motives for messing with the wormholes are different, she shows a care for her kids, the pokemon she has, etc.

Even without Nihilego, everything... from the abuse of her kids, the frozen pokemon, taking advantage of others and even allowing Null to happen were ALL from her and that is the reason we want to see this woman get knocked off her high horse. The things we should be mad at her for, because they all stemmed from her and it is why she is a villain in USUM.

For a bigger compare and contrast. http://ultraericthered.tumblr.com/post/167852568320/sm-lusamine-vs-usum-lusamine-part-1-while-her

http://ultraericthered.tumblr.com/post/167853295755/sm-lusamine-vs-usum-lusamine-part-2-in-sm

http://ultraericthered.tumblr.com/post/167853828520/sm-lusamine-vs-usum-lusamine-part-3-in-sm

USUM just made the changes so we can have that desire to see her get kicked and feel bad for how it got to the mess it did in the first place, while giving us the hope that she can be salvaged and have a turn around/ repair her relationship with her kids.

She became a problem for most of the game because she was going to go Leeroy on everyone and as everyone feared, it would have made things worse.

It is called, humanizing your villain on screen. Lusamine is less scary as a villain in this game, but she came off as a character with some actual depth to the things she has done as well as the villain Game Freak intended to make. One that can turn around for the better and have a hope of reconnecting with her kids in the end.

Nothing was really retconned, but things were cleared up in a way to show us what she would have been like without going down the rabbit hole she did in SM.

3. Lusamine’s abuse of her kids got swept under the rug, her turn around came out of nowhere and she got off Scott free in USUM.

a. It didn’t, Lusamine admitted to her kids that they were right to take the pokemon and run. She started making amends to the Cosmog she hurt right when you came back and Lillie only came back to Aether to see Nebby recover, after that they parted ways. Lusamine also had an identity crisis in between the post game and RR, where she realize just how much of a fuck up she was and after RR she decided on how to fix herself.

Getting her ass kicked was already done by Necrozma and more of it was not needed now that she learned her lesson and started making amends. This woman letting her kids go was another hint that she knew what she did was wrong, she got that and she hopes the best for them. (Seen with the goodbye between her and Gladion.)

b. Lusamine’s whole Leeroy Jenkins thing backfired, Necrozma is causing problems on Alola... problems she tried to prevent and funny enough, problems she caused in SM. The Ultra Recon Squad were chewing her out for her crap and Lillie had her turn with her while you were fighting Necrozma. It may have been off screen, but it is common sense to think THAT is when people were able to get it through her head in just how reckless she has been and get her to self reflect on the things she has done.

c. Despite Lusamine getting sick in SM at the end... she and the whole of Aether got off scott free for their shit in there as well. It’s pokemon, it is very likely Lillie and Bill would fix her up and she would recover. (Sacred Ashes exist for a reason people... its that strong of medicine.)

Another thing in Pokemon. Archie, Maxie, Colress and grunts from various villain teams have gotten off scott free for their shit and in USUM, Lusamine not having legal repercussions isn’t that different from them. So this didn’t bother me so much and if anything, Aether being raided by Team RR works as karma since now they are being taken advantage off... by force.

4. USUM should have been a sequel instead of ruining SM’s story/ should have been DLC.

a. I don’t understand why they didn’t make a sequel, BW2 was known for this... but there were a couple plot holes that came from BW2. One, what happened to the previous protagonist and all the characters that got involved with that one just mention them? It made things a bit shallower since the new protagonist is a substitute for them.

In addition, BW2′s story... compared to BW... wasn’t that great. It was a basic, bad guys are using a legendary for their goals, cause trouble in random locations etc that we see in every other game and unlike BW it wasn’t the whole plot. While a Sequel to SM might give closure... it would have caused as many problems as what BW2 did.

So I kind of appreciate that USUM was a rewrite of the story, it helped polish things out and give a better sense of closure. While SM had a more emotional story, I would take USUM as a whole over it due to that one giving closure while still having some of those emotions.

Also, DLC wouldn’t have covered a whole new challenge with the trials, trainers, new pokemon ETC... this was done in Crystal, Emerald and Platinum. So why is USUM doing any problems when some games with DLC abuse the hell out of it and milk us for money?

I apologize for the long rant, but I wanted to get this out of my system.

SM are good games, but USUM came around, did things a lot better in most areas and became the definitive edition of this generation. I really wish more people see it as the improved version of SM instead of a hindrance to Gen 7, it and the story doesn’t deserve the hate it gets.

[imaginegladions]

(Gladion + Lillie x MC) Hmm. Don't you think there'd be a tense atmosphere if one of the siblings were left heartbroken? I doubt they'd think bad of each other indeed, but I can imagine it'd ruin things pretty badly. Or is that just me? :D

A SHORT META ON LILLIE & GLADION

THIS META GOT SO MUCH LONGER THAN I INTENDED IT TO BE SO IT’S UNDER THE CUT.

I don’t think they would be particularly ruined by it. By looking at their relationship as siblings, you’ll see that in this kind of situation Gladion is more likely to back off to be honest.

In order to see how they would react we have to take into account (1) Lillie and Gladion’s relationship in-game, (2) Lillie and Gladion’s way of handling grief, and then using both points to predict the (3) outcome of the situation stated.

(1) Lillie and Gladion’s Relationship

Gladion feels bad about leaving Lillie at Aether with Lusamine when he ran away. In the games, he does everything he can to atone for this. 

“I’m sorry… I wasn’t there for you when you needed me.”

Lillie on the other hand feels intense worry for Gladion constantly and a bit of resentment for him leaving her. 

“But…but when you took Null and left Aether Paradise two years ago… you left me alone with Mother! She was so bad after you left!”

But, she also comes to understand why Gladion had to do it. He had something he needed to do for the good of the region and now she has her own mission to complete. At this point, Gladion and Lillie have complete understanding of each other’s actions.

Lillie: I feel like there’s so much I have to do now… to save Nebby… to save my mother… I’m OK. You don’t have to worry. I know what I have to do now. And… I don’t know. Maybe it sounds strange, but… I’m kind of excited.

Gladion: All I could think about back then was finding a way to save Null… That was the battle I was fighting. But now you’ve found your own battle to fight. I know you can handle it.

Actually, you could say Lillie understood what Gladion was going through from the moment she knew she had to leave Aether to protect Nebby. 

After the player catches Nebby, Gladion challenges the player and says:

“I’ve been waiting for you. To thank you. For what you did for Lillie. For our mother. I appreciate it. Maybe more than you know.”

“Lillie wanted me to tell you something. She’s looking after our mother at the foundation. She wanted me to tell you…that you’re the best Pokémon Trainer in the world, . She gave me this. For you.”

Gladion is still trying to redeem himself and is doing it by talking to his sister and being close to her so he can ascertain what her needs are that he can help her with. He also wants to thank the player for being there for Lillie, a task he failed in again and again in Aether Paradise and in Aether House when she was taken.

In conclusion:

Gladion and Lillie completely understand each other’s motives.

Gladion still feels guilt at leaving Lillie.

Lillie feels a deeper connection to her brother because of her independence but is unaware that Gladion feels that guilt.

(2) Lillie and Gladion’s Way Of Handling Grief

Let’s take the first occasion when they both experienced grief. The disappearance of their father, Mohn. Funnily enough, all three Aether family residents have the same way of dealing with grief but use it on different spectrums of alignment.

Lusamine goes from Lawful Good and becomes Chaotic Good and then eventually Lawful Evil when possessed by Nihilego. She has good intentions in the beginning. As a scientist, she wants to study the Ultra Beasts. She wants to protect them. The loss of her husband only made her more obsessed with continuing his research and their cause. She diverted her grief towards protecting Ultra Beasts.

Lusamine (after meeting Nihilego): It looked like it was suffering… Like it pained it to be in this strange place… I can’t bear to see that happen! I will save it. And I will love it!

Lillie starts out as Neutral Good. She wants to do the right thing. She obeys her mother. She stays by her side but eventually when Lusamine becomes too much for her to handle and she sees that Nebby suffers by her hand she decides what is right for herself for the first time and runs away. Despite this, Lillie’s actions are pretty mediocre and are actions that any good person would take. She diverted her grief into protecting Nebby and saving Alola and her mother from Ultra Beasts.

Lillie: It’s like I told you before… Nebby saved my life once when I was in trouble. Now I want to save it!

Lillie (after Aether Paradise event): When I— Once I am ready, I am going to come after you, . I am going to catch up to you. And when I do, I’m going to become strong enough to save my mother and Nebby, too!

Gladion is Chaotic Good. He aligns himself with Team Skull who does questionable acts for what he sees is justice. His intentions are good but the way he goes about achieving justice can sometimes be morally questionable. He hates when others look down on people or judges them prematurely. And finally, he is actually benevolent and kind towards people or Pokémon who are innocent. He diverts his grief into protecting Type: Null and getting stronger to take down the Ultra Beasts to save Alola.

Gladion (to Lillie): All I could think about back then was finding a way to save Null… That was the battle I was fighting.

Gladion (to Lusamine): Mother— I apologize most sincerely for the actions I took in taking Null and running away. Yet I cannot regret these actions. They were for the sake of the greater good.

See the pattern? They all want to do good as a way to get over grief.

(3) Conclusion

Taking all of this into account, if Gladion and Lillie ever did end up being interested in the same person Gladion would likely be the first to notice. He’s hyperaware of Lillie and of the actions other people take towards Lillie in his pursuit of redemption and he’d be the type to be just as hyperaware of someone he’s in love with. 

He would believe that if the person he loves will make Lillie happy then he’d give up his own happiness for her. And since Lillie isn’t aware that Gladion is low key trying to make amends, she wouldn’t notice that Gladion is in love with them too unless the person they both love points it out or chooses Gladion.

If the person they love chooses Gladion:

Gladion would be surprised and disbelieving.

He would likely try to convince you that you’re not in love with him and you are better suited to Lillie.

He’d feel even guiltier about stealing you from Lillie unless he, you, and Lillie have a talk about how everyone feels.

He would likely try and run from the situation.

But, if everyone makes their feelings clear, he’d accept it.

Lillie would also accept it, she’d be a bit upset about it but she would understand if you told her you didn’t love her.

Lillie deals with heartbreak by finding other reasons to be helpful, tbh.

She still has a modicum of respect for her brother, understanding how hard it is to run away and live alone and be independent so she’d understand why you’d choose him.

If the person they love chooses Lillie: 

Lillie would be absolutely thrilled but try not to be overly happy in front of Gladion if she knows he loves them too which is highly unlikely.

Gladion would back out gracefully and maybe focus more on Battle Royale or running Aether.

He would consider it more recompense for having left Lillie all by herself.

Gladion deals with heartbreak by himself. He’s always self-assessing like that. Even in the anime. He deals with loss the same way.

Lillie would probably notice his hermit like behaviour and eventually figure out that he was in love with them too.

She would want to talk to him about it thinking he’d be upset with her.

Gladion is honestly just happy for his sister though.

Which makes Lillie love her older brother even more tbh.

Hope that helped! I was trying to see what I could do now that I’m out of the hospital but I couldn’t really work up the energy for HCs. :P 

[zchaotic]

Decent story telling deciphering. Episode 1, Lillie.

I think I got the core of Lillie's character growth figured out. 

From both sets of games to the anime... it is about Lillie learning to make that first step into becoming a braver person.

For most of SM and USUM, Lillie was a timid person who could barely do anything by herself without having second thoughts. This stemmed from Lusamine being so much of a control freak to her and Gladion, making all the decisions for them and telling the two to just listen to the adults around them. (How extreme this was depends on the set... but it doesn’t matter much in the end when it is emotional abuse.)

Some time before the events of the game, Lillie saw what was being done to the Cosmog Nebby and found it so extreme, so wrong that the girl realized that her mother wasn’t sound in the mind.

So she took the Cosmog and ran, the girl wanting to help get Nebby back home and find the means necessary to do it.

That is when the Cosmog teleported Lillie out of Aether.

Out of that toxic environment and to the tropical region of Alola. Where two were cornered. Lillie found proper emotional support in Kukui and Burnet, individuals that allowed her to relax to the newfound freedom she obtained.

When you the player arrived, Lillie was slowly trying to break away from the lingering, over bearing shadow Lusamine had over her. That... is what her old look represented, the resemblance to Nihilego is just a coincidence since in USUM, Lusamine’s goals have nothing to do with that Ultra Beast despite everyone looking the same. The clothes themselves represent a past of a bound childhood.

Every time Lillie was trying to find a new look to suit her, was every time she tries to find the courage towards becoming independent. With you, Hau and everyone Lillie befriended inspiring her towards that.

To become a trainer, to become strong enough to fight her battles.

Then Team Skull came along to get the Cosmog while you were dealing with Guzma.

We the player raided Aether Paradise and through some dialogue from Gladion, figure out that Lusamine was a control freak to her kids... explaining why Gladion is trying to do things in his own way. Whether to stop Lusamine from endangering Alola and the family or to stop her from endangering herself. (USUM and Gladion’s motive to raise Null to its potential and prove that woman wrong.

When we confront Lusamine, we see why Lillie had so much self doubt. Lusamine talks down on Lillie for stealing her stuff and leaving, this woman really thinks that her kids should just shut up and let her take care of things (USUM) or think they are pests getting in her way to what ever she wants (SM).

Then you fight Lusamine for what ever reason. (In SM it was self defense since the crazy bitch was trying to kill you, in USUM... because the crazy bitch wanted to prove to her kids that she can manage Necrozma. “I’ll get to her in another time.”)

Nebby’s power got used in great lengths and it evolved into Cosmoem to survive.

Then the next day happened, after some thinking... Lillie changed her outfit to a more lively Z powered form. Finally making that big step out of her mother’s overbearing shadow, with a goal in mind... rescue Lusamine from her own stupid/ crazy shit.

During your trip to Poni Island, Lillie took more and more steps to facing her insecurities, things that would frighten her before and press forward. (USUM took out Exeggutor Island... BUT the things she said on that island went over to the RR episode in some way or form.)

Eventually reaching the altar and helping you evolve Nebby. Depending on the version, you and Lillie either go into Ultra Space to fight Lusamine... OR Necrozma kicked Lusamine’s (and Guzma’s) butt for you and causes everything to go off the rails.

In SM... Lillie chewed Lusamine out and the crazy bitch latched onto Nihilego in an attempt to kill the both of you. Then Lillie had Nebby blast Nihilego off of  Lusamine, the woman said some sweet words, Lillie forgives her... gives you Nebby right there because she wasn’t a trainer and made it her objective to help Lusamine recover... while saying she is going to become a trainer in Kanto. Yes these scenes are emotional... but it kind of undoes most of Lillie’s development towards the end, her standing up to her mother, only to go back to her in the end. We have no idea if that woman learned anything and for all we know, Lusamine would just go back to abusing Lillie again. No closure and if it was.. it is a pretty gritty ending that soured a good story and goes against the message that Children are not things that belong to their parents.

In USUM... because you the player had to deal with Necrozma... who ate Nebby and was stealing the light from Alola. Lillie’s chew up at Lusamine was off screen, but Lillie told us what she was going tell that woman at around Vast Poni Canyon.

Off screen, she called out a less crazed Lusamine out on her self entitled crap... that people are to help one another instead of trying to do things by themselves. (Like what Lusamine had been doing to her kids.)

We go back to that aftermath and we see Lusamine having a change of heart... knocked off her high horse by Necrozma and lectured by Lillie.

Admitting that her kids were right to go against her. To Lillie’s fortune, she saw her mother make the first big step to repentance... tending to what was the Cosmog. (Lusamine making repentance towards Nebby.)

This isn’t as focused as SM... but this is a good trade off.

Lillie only went back to Aether Paradise to help Nebby recover, while you the player finish up the last grand trial.

Gladion tells you to go to Mahalo trial when you beat him.

Where you find Lillie and Nebby... in the place you all first met. Lillie says her goodbyes to Nebby and promised it that she will become stronger. While Lillie doesn’t go to Kanto, she does stay with Kukui and Burnet. It isn’t as emotional, but it makes me feel happy that she is showing her growth and is in a happier environment.

As well as becoming a trainer and beginning her biggest step towards something. Which is seen in RR when Lillie becomes a trainer, it is a Clefairy and the only reason it is high leveled is because of your point in the game.

Lillie is a support trainer... which fits her character perfectly. Speaking of courage, she was willing to help you fight RR... kick a grunts butt and even help you in battling Faba. She is starting out as a trainer, so of course once that happens... you the player have to manage the rest while Lillie takes the role of healing your pokemon when needed. Some might find this disappointing, but this is reality... she started off as a trainer and she isn’t as tough as you yet.

In addition, after RR she offers to become your partner for the Battle Tree... and is one of the best supporters in that whole place.

Even if USUM isn’t as focused on her or as emotional this is good closure for one of Gamefreak’s best characters and those who said this game butchers, her story, when it really didn’t, can go take a hike.

Now for the anime. Lillie’s backstory is different compared to the games. Lusamine isn’t an abusive control freak and instead is kind of a goofy mother that smoothers Lillie in affection the first chance she gets. Treating her daughter like a baby.

She is pretty god damn neglectful and is way too childish that problems arise between her and her kids.

. In addition, Lillie is still a girl that hasn’t seen much of the outside world... so she comes off as timid and awkward.

Lillie had PTSD from being attacked by a Nihilego and ever since, she had a fear of touching pokemon. For most of the first season, Lillie slowly tries to overcome that trauma and as part of school therapy, she bonds with an Alolan Vulpix that hatched from an egg.

Snowy.

We see Lillie try to overcome that trauma piece by piece, from bonding with that Vulpix, Ash’s Pikachu AND riding on a Stoutland.

Throughout Season 1, we were also giving hints that more was to this trauma and Gladion is trying to take matters into his own hands to protect his sister. This doesn’t get revealed until the Aether Arc. (One of my Favorite Story arcs.)

Unlike the games, where Lillie was scared of Lusamine... in the anime, Lillie wasn’t scared of telling this woman off for doing things her way... like evolving Clefairy without telling anyone.

While the Clefairy Lillie cared about was Lusamine’s... that woman should have asked her kids if it was okay.

In addition, we have a pretty strained relationship between the family... because Lusamine wasn’t never really there for her kids... especially when Lillie got traumatized and that woman never bothered questioning how it happened.

We are drawn into how more of this happened and Gladion explained to Ash how Lillie’s Trauma happened. Then a Cosmog Ash was taking care of (Nebby) teleported Lillie to Type:Null... who was apart of that trauma and it caused a regression that was SO bad that Lillie didn’t even want Snowy with her. In Lillie’s eyes... Type:Full tried to attack her.

Desperate to overcome that regression, Lillie... with Ash and Nebby, retraced her steps bit by bit... to hopefully regain those memories and understand what happened. Now for those with PTSD... this is probably a bad idea if the person suffering from it doesn’t want to remember it, in this case Lillie does want to remember... as scary as it might be.

Eventually the teleporting leads to the Aether Lab... where Faba wanted to keep the incident a secret if to save his own hide. The bastard took Lillie and tried to erase her memories, which resulted in Gladion coming in with his Type:Null... that broke his helmet and kicked butt as a Silvally, to rescue Lillie.

There... she remembers what happened, she remembered what happened... she remembered Silvally pouncing on the Nihilego that caused her so much pain.

With that mystery clicked... Lillie started being more open to touching pokemon and she relished every fun moment now her phobia is gone.

Then Faba came along, took Nebby and caused a chain of events that lead to Lillie and her family meeting Nihilego again. That pokemon... caused Lillie’s fear to surface, through that event... the thing nabbed Lusamine and went into Ultra Space with her.

More trauma and leading to the girl finding a new goal... to rescue her Mother from the Ultra Beast.

That is when she takes on her Z powered form, the meaning behind the clothes is a BIT different, her stepping out of her sheltered world in an attempt to become more braze... instead of taking life into her own hands.

With this courage, she and Gladion went off to Poni Island and the alter to rescue their mother. She also helped her brother over come a Totem Kommo-o during this journey.

Once they reached the alter, Ash and the others came by to lend their supporting hand. The Tapus come and Ash brought Nebby... where the evolution end up happening and they all go into Ultra Deep Sea.

The world of Nihilego... where Lillie and the group found Mother Beast Lusamine... who thanks to the venom now drugging her out of her skull is acting like a child. She shouts out pretty harsh things to her kids and in her rampage, nearly kills them when she tries to run from them.

Along the way, the Mother Beast sends out her Pokemon against the class mates. Most keeping them at bay, with the final pokemon our heroes having to confront, being Clefable... a pokemon Lillie has a close bond with.

Even if it is a pacifist way, Lillie had the guts to try and snap Clefable out of the mother beasts control with... a pretty sappy I love you speech and a hug. (Dangerous as hell... but it worked.)

Then she, Clefable, Ash and Gladion reached the Mother Beast into a corner... where Lillie had a different choice of words to the Mother Beast. A chewing at Lusamine for her neglectful behavior, for treating Lillie like a baby and turning around to act like a bigger one. For letting work and that desire to see a UB take priority over her kids... and becoming a puppet for the UB.

That speech... worked on snapping Lusamine out of the haze... but then Nihilego took control and tried to swat Lillie. Then comes Ash using that 10,000,000 volt Z move out of nowhere and knocking Nihilego off of Lusamine.

The heroes rescue Lusamine, go home and... even if Lillie changed back to her old look, she had pretty good development to where she isn��t the same timid wreck she was. (Remember, Lusamine isn’t a control freak in the anime... the clothes have a different meaning and Lillie doesn’t have a reason to toss it out when there isn’t a symbol of an overbearing shadow.)

While Lillie is a try hard that over does herself from this point forward, she ends up taking more steps to becoming more mature and braver. (Including being part of the Ultra Guardians and dealing with more UB’s...being willing to do that as well.) Like fighting a Tyranitar that was terrorizing a group of Alolan Sandshrew, she and her Vulpix helped the Alpha shrew fight back... drive Tyranitar out and in exchange, got an Icium Z and an ice stone. Showing that more is going to be done.

As of now, she and Gladion want to look for their missing father... Mohn.

That girl is taking another big step in trying to help... by finding a way to restore a Magearna’s soul heart and becoming stronger so she CAN do something to get him back... to give her family that needed closure. This... is becoming something that might surpass the way the games told this families story if it plays its cards right. We just need to wait and see.

Lillie becoming brave enough to face this big obstacle, for the sake of her family.