#but like. i don't think i've ever seen a queerbait that just. didn't work. no one give a shit

[strawberryghostlight]

ok but like. someone ask me about the post-covid hp cursed child script updates pls someone ask me. bc they fucking tried to queerbait they really tried they tried so fucking hard and it didn't work this is so funny to me it didn't even work they tried to queerbait on purpose but nobody gave a shit the queers have moved on from hp

[super-who-locked-me-in-here]

Pieces of media my mom has seen and the popular MLM ships in them that she doesn't think are gay:

MCU - Stucky (note that she does get a kick out of Stony stuff and she believes wholeheartedly that those two hate fucked in a not-filmed scene of Avengers 2012 so this is not about her thinking "oh Captain America is so straight-laced because he's the ideal American man" or anything)

MCU - Poolverine (she's fully aware and accepting of the fact that both Logan and Wade are canonically queer characters but she thinks all the flirting Wade did with Logan in the newest movie didn't necessarily mean anything because "he talks like that to everyone". Side note though: while she believes Wade should be with Vanessa, she does think that Logan can and should shoot his shot with Wade after Vanessa inevitably dies since he and Wade are both immortal. It's just that she thinks Wade should get his happy ending with Vanessa first.)

MCU - Lokius ("Mama have you ever seen a man fix another man's tie like that" "No but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen! I wouldn't know though; it's been like 15 years since I worked a corporate job.")

Sonyverse/Marvel - Symbrock ("They literally have a symbiotic relationship. That doesn't make them gay." So I showed her the comics where Eddie calls Venom "love" and gives birth to Venom's babies and she said "Fine you win but please never show me alien man birth ever again."

Supernatural - Destiel ("They're like Steve and Bucky! They're brothers in arms! They've been through hell and back together!" Note that she only watched through season 5 but she does know about a lot of their later interactions because I told her about them)

House M.D. - Hilson ("Dot I watched that whole show and they were never anything more than good friends" "What about when House admitted to thinking about Wilson during sex? What about that whole episode where they pretended to be gay for each other to prove a point to a neighbor and Wilson proposed? What about that whole episode where Wilson had to furnish the apartment and House told him not to let a woman tell him what to do but Wilson let House tell him what to do? What about the whole ending?" "Why can't two men just be close enough friends to joke about that stuff with each other?"

Real life - Me and my best friend of the same gender orientation who I've kissed multiple times and have had a requited crush on for years that neither of us have ever persued for logistical reasons (I literally used me and this friend to try and prove my mom wrong about Stucky and Destiel. I asked her if she thought me and this friend were like brothers and she said yes with a straight face)

Sherlock - Johnlock (to be fair this is the BBC ship name, but she doesn't think any iteration of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson are the slightest bit gay. "They're business partners and roommates.")

Our Flag Means Death - BlackHands (Should go ahead and say that I'm not really a BlackHands shipper myself; we both really enjoyed Stede and Ed's romance in the show. BUT it takes so much away from Izzy's character and his development if you don't acknowledge that he was jealous of Stede and in love with Ed, at least a little. My mom thought Izzy was just an extremely loyal first mate.)

Also, for the record, I'm not trying to call my mom out as homophobic. I'm queer and so are two of my siblings and she's very supportive of us. There are gay romcoms she enjoys like Our Flag Means Death and Red, White, and Royal Blue. The reason I'm making this list is because I think it's really funny how she doesn't understand the concept of queerbaiting (not that all of the above listed ships are queerbaiting). She thinks things are either explicitly straight or explicitly queer (whether it's gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc) and cannot comprehend the idea that some character relationships are deliberately pushing the boundaries of straight friendships into queer relationships to get more minority viewers and I think her explanations are funny.

[nerdyvocals]

9 People to Know Better (except I'm not tagging 9 people)

I don't normally do tag games, but I got tagged in this twice (by @jealous-kippen and @remmixx, my beloveds <3) so here I am! (also as I'm writing this out I am realizing that while both posts were titled the same way, it looks like they had different question prompts??? So I'm just gonna combine the two)

Favorite Color: Purple! Any shade will have my heart but I am partial to more red-toned purples. (PV, if that means anything to anyone who sees this other than me, you know who you are)

Currently Reading: Three things! In terms of actual books, I've been slowly making my way through the Riordanverse since my university did The Lightning Thief in my second year (first school in my state to do it once the rights were released!) since I somehow never got into Percy Jackson as a kid, and I'm currently on Son of Neptune. I'm also one like my third or fourth re-read of Eurydice by Sara Ruhl, since that's the play I'm designing the costumes for for my senior project. And in terms of fanfic, I woke up to a notification about this yesterday and Actually Screeched.

Last Song: Dial Drunk by Noah Kahan (ft. Post Malone), which was a bit of an accident. I use siri to request music while I'm driving and I asked for Dial Drunk and was singing along until I got jumpscared by the slight difference before Post Malone's verse. Although if you look at my spotify, the ROTPL album has been on repeat for weeks.

Currently Watching (Series): I've been hyperfixated on ROTPL and have watched it over a dozen times at this point, which is probably not healthy, so I put on NCIS last night for background noise while I ate dinner and accidentally watched like six episodes.

Currently Watching (Movie): Saw the Barbie movie the night before the actual opening with my coworkers (We don't cross picket lines people! I was not asked nor invited by any company, and I paid full price for my ticket. There's a one-screen theatre in the town where I'm doing summer stock, this relic from the 50's, and they were able to get access to the film a day early and did a special first come first serve premiere.) and we all sobbed the entire way through.

Current Obsession: Rise of the Pink Ladies. Full stop. I'd seen clips of it when it first aired in April but I was iffy on it in spite of how good it looked. Like most, I'm a little tired of reboots and remakes, and while I did clock Cynthia as being queer within two seconds, (I believe my exact words were "That's either a very butch lesbian or the eggiest egg to ever egg.") I was Convinced it was a queerbait situation. Plus I was nearing finals and didn't have time to get into a new show. But then Crushing Me was trending on tiktok and I realized this was not queerbait, so I put it on to have something playing while I packed for summer stock and it's been the only thing I can think about since mid May. It got me writing fanfic again for the first time in years, if that tells you anything. Speaking of,

Currently Working On: A follow-up to my previous fic, Steady, Steady! I wanted to have it up this week, but it is a behemoth. I'm a little over halfway through my plot outline and I'm at 10,441 words. Fun fact, this will be my longest single-chapter fic so far. Not just in the fandom, not just on AO3, but ever (so far!)

No-Pressure Tagging: @merely-a-player, @penguin-writes-books, @el-fandom-birb, @marley-barnes112, @isweartheyregayyourhonor, and @look-at-those-niceass-rocks (since I've already dragged you back to tumblr kicking and screaming)

[mamanbou]

I've gotta be honest. I have seen the arguments against calling Nandermo "queerbaiting", and I agree with them, but just saying "it's not queerbaiting if they're queer as individuals" willfully ignores that the nandermo shipbait is very revealing of some sinister shit wrt the show's queer rep in general.

It would be one thing if the ship simply didn't happen, but isn't it strange that it's never even entertained textual? They've both dated men, Laszlo and Nandor fuck all the time, queerness isn't a sensitive topic amongst the main cast, so why is the hypothetical of Nandor and Guillermo dating/fucking avoided like the plague (except in the cloak of duplication, which is then never addressed again), despite their notable closeness? Why do they always specify "friend" during dramatic monologues about their relationship in the actual show, while the actors and PR team play mouth service to the ship elsewhere? Why can't we get a single canon explanation as to why these two are off limits to each other in the sexually depraved vampire show?

Did Paul Simms think he was being woke when he called them non-sexual soulmates, the same way every other showrunner does to aggrandize their refusal to portray gay relationships in explicit terms?

Think about how multiple official sources have called Nandermo a "will they-won't they", despite all hints of romantic feelings from either party being 100% subtextual to-date, not even a "you like him, don't you?" from a side character (duplication cloak doesn't count, that was guillermo talking about himself). That shit is unheard of in straight sitcom will they-won't theys. Think about how the Guide being in love with Guillermo was confirmed quite clearly, and how it's a bit that she falls for everyone, but the Guide then spent 2 seasons obsessed with Nadja and it was NEVER stated that it was a romantic thing, despite the show playing into the homoeroticism.

At times, it feels to me like gay relationships are good for sex-based punchlines in wwdits, but the showrunners struggle to consider them in nonsexual contexts. A majority queer cast is great for the show's reputation, great for variety in jokes in a raunchy FX comedy, but the prospect of two male main characters actually consummating their homoerotic dynamic is a carrot on a stick that they never intend to feed us.

I wouldn't have this complaint if official sources didn't wink and nod about nandermo so often. I wouldn't have this complaint if Paul Simms wasn't so wishy-washy on the subject in every interview he'd ever done. I wouldn't have this complaint if nandermo even had ONE scene on the level of laszlo trying to kiss sean, something explaining that Guillermo has tried to make a move on Nandor or vice versa, and here's why it didn't work. But at this point nandermo is genuinely a yuri of absence situation (the absence of the thing is more poignant than its hypothetical presence) and I feel fucking crazy dealing with this in a piece of media where nobody is straight.

[wellofdean]

I've read a lot of your posts, but I don't how you can say that Supernatural was not queerbaiting. What do you mean by 'it was structural'? The PTB never let Dean and Cas be in love, they just strung us all along and then slammed the door in our faces? Killed the gay and then never mentioned Cas again? That is queerbaiting, plain and simple.

Hi friend. Well, this is why: there are too many things, especially starting from the arc in season 7 where Cas is working with Crowley, that simply DO NOT MAKE SENSE unless Dean is in love with Cas, and Cas is in love with Dean. I mean... what do you mean they never let them be in love? Were we watching the same show?

Like, Why does Dean look back at Cas with that injured look on his face when Cas is working with Crowley? Why does Dean forgive Cas for breaking Sam's brain almost immediately? Why does Dean take Cas's stupid trenchcoat with him through a series of stolen cars when he thinks Cas is dead after the Leviathans? Why does he look like he is going to die on the spot when he meets Emmauel and his wife? Why was Dean in Purgatory for a year, refusing to leave even though he had a way out until he found 'the angel'? Why is Cas not leaving Purgatory with him so devastatingly painful that he has to rewrite his memories to cope? Why does Dean telling Cas he needs him break Naomi's conditioning in that crypt? Why do they forgive each other irrationally again and again and again? What in the holy name of all that is totally fucking gay was Dean's confession about? Why does the narrative very explicitly parallel Cain's wife with Cas? Why does it parallel Cas and Eileen? Why can't Dean, possessed with the mark of Cain, kill Cas? Why does Cas let Dean beat him up or hold him back, like, EVER? Why did Mary fucking know the minute she met Cas? Why did Castiel, angel of the lord, let Dean dress him up like a fucking cowboy? Why does Sam always have that look on his face when they bicker? Why is losing Cas what breaks Dean down like nothing else? Why is their relationship breaking, being mended and fucking saving the world the most important emotional arc and plot element of the entire final season? Why does Dean always look like he is literally choking on his own heart whenever anything Cas is involved? Wherefore all those insane Jacting Joices?? Like, I could go on and on, but their love for each other is the backbone of SO MUCH of that story, and there is simply too much of Supernatural that doesn't make a lick of sense if Dean is not queer and in love with Cas, and Cas doesn't love Dean beyond all human understanding.

And listen: I don't care what anyone involved in the making Supernatural says about it! The text is the text, and it is profoundly, thoroughgoingly queer. They loved each other. They were each other's primary relationship, and nearly every other character on the show sees it and SAYS it.

Here's what I wish the "QUEERBAITING!!!" crowd would remember: there are a lot of queer experiences in the world to represent, and not all of them are defined by who tongue wrestles and fucks who. Not all of them are sexual at all! Not all of them are happy endings. There are a lot of queer people who don't work out their trauma and hetero conditioning until it's too late somehow, and who have to make peace with just being, or just saying it, and not having, again and again and again. There are a lot of queer people, even now, who can't look their real selves in the eye. There are queer people out there who want a thing they can't have, or think they can't have, and don't say anything at all about it. The fact that they can't say it, or can't have it doesn't make them any less fully fucking queer.

Some of us queers felt seen and represented by this story, Don't erase us just because you didn't get to see two pretty men make out.

That said, the majority of the final two episodes of Supernatural were egregious examples of narrative malpractice, and we all deserved better. Dean and Cas deserved better. I will agree with you there. But, that's not queerbaiting; it's just poor storytelling and denial. The queerness was already BAKED IN, and fully present, and I would argue it was there from the get go, that it went from a character based on a bisexual beat-era dude in a story about profound Daddy issues to the most romantic love story I have ever seen with my eyes on TV.

Seriously, SPN fandom catechism is so tired.

[rebeccadumaurier]

thoughts on bungou stray dogs season 5

woo, that was a fun binge-watch! ok, my (not spoiler free) thoughts:

this was a good season, really really good. i'm really impressed by asagiri's ability to keep us guessing and to play off old story patterns while also developing new ones—characterization's very consistent but also keeps developing in fresh and interesting directions. pacing's less wack than s3 (where fyodor appeared in like 3 episodes), the plot develops at a solid pace, the themes are really interesting

this was the gayest season i have seen so far and i've been letting this stupid show queerbait me for 6 years now, so that's saying something. fukichi and fukuzawa simultaneously have the energy of messily divorced exes, pining repressed best friends, and happily married couple all at once. if i was mori i'd be jealous (but it's mori so he's not, though i do appreciate mori/fukuzawa as a foil to fukichi/fukuzawa).

i'm not really the biggest fan of raising the stakes continuously overall, like i really don't think media needs to go like season 1. save my friend season 2. save my home season 3. save the world or some shit, it's fine to have similar magnitude of stakes throughout. but it's cool that asagiri's got the ambition to tackle some lofty questions—in particular i think nikolai's own struggle to determine his free will compared to fukichi's desire to strip free will from humanity in exchange for world peace is interesting.

i have never been particularly taken by fyodor, or fyodor's relationship with dazai, or fyodor's relationship with nikolai. but this season has finally caused me to cave and admit he's great. he's hilarious, he's a great foil to dazai (their weird 4D chess frenemyship is excellent, i understand why people ship them now), his dialogue is top tier and i fucking lost it when he faked having a split personality to the character with split hair because he (rightly) figured sigma would fall for it. like yes DRAG HIM

speaking of split haired characters, i miss Q, who had a lot of potential to add some more chaos to the mix and who i generally want to see more of (his fucked up gender energy and his being a lovehatechild of dazai and chuuya is so entertaining)

i'm...actually a bit disappointed that dazai did not actually let chuuya die, although i do like the direction asagiri took—in "double black," we saw chuuya place his trust in dazai, and it paid off. this time around, dazai placed his trust in chuuya—literally let him put a loaded gun to his head!!—and it paid off (and also chuuya got his revenge for dazai taking too long to nullify corruption last time, you know he had fun with those extra bullets).

i really enjoy that asagiri shows time and time again just how much these two trust each other, but at the same time, i think their relationship could actually be stress tested more—like, i genuinely wanted to see dazai placed into a real "pick chuuya or the ADA" situation! i want to see dazai and chuuya actually on opposite sides, not in truces or working together or whatnot, and i suspect that this will happen in the show's last arc—it's eventually going to circle back to ADA vs. PM, just like the beginning. TL:DR; i'm an insane dazai/chuuya shipper and the chokehold they have on me is so humiliating that i just don't talk about it 99% of the time. if i loved you less i would be able to talk about it more.

although i did 100% call him being OK with killing chuuya as BS, because there is no goddamn way dazai's last words to chuuya would ever be as mild and cliche as "we didn't really get along, but sometimes we understood each other." that man has been practicing dramatic monologues in his head daily for the last seven years. when he does deliver that monologue it's going to fucking SERVE

speaking of being taken in by fyodor: fine fine I GET THE DAZAI/CHUUYA X FYODOR/NIKOLAI PARALLELS NOW OKAY. not that i denied them before but we were really getting bashed over the head with it in the prison break episodes. being queerbaited by this show is better than a lot of actual media gay couples but it still hurts like a bitch.

i continue to want to wring atsushi's neck lol. akutagawa has never really been my fave or anything, but his character development is clearly progressing much faster (and i really really respect it) and our narrator still can't fucking form an opinion without one of his friends to guide him!! kyouka and lucy please ditch him and date each other instead. the lack of kyouka in this season was CRIMINAL.

i kind of ship kenji and tetchou now...i know the show is pushing tetchou and jouno but jouno is just so fucking MEAN and tetchou deserves someone who doesn't judge him for his quirks okay :(

tachihara biggest glow up of any character since the beginning of this show. the character development i didnt know i wanted

this season did a lot more work to humanize the hunting dogs (esp. the non-tachihara ones) and i enjoyed that a lot. teruko's role in the finale, killing the man she loved most because fukuzawa couldn't, absolutely murdered me. i think it's such a good step in her character arc as she has to figure out who she wants to be without him. also i appreciate that she's a badass female character who isn't a weirdly sexualized girlboss and is also a weirdo

aya and bram is truly one of the most bizarre pairs in this show and there are a lot of bizarre pairs, so that's saying something. i legitimately feel like asagiri picked some names out of a hat or spun a wheel for this or something. but i am excited for bram to figure out what he wants after spending forever being enslaved to others, and hope that this involves listening to the radio all day with a 10-year-old girl. the way children are portrayed in BSD as these incredibly vulnerable and impressionable people worthy of love and protection sincerely fucks me up so bad

loose ends: where is the help me note from? i assumed dazai wrote it, but i doubt it, and i also doubt he just left sigma to die. we still don't know what fyodor's ability is, which makes me nervous, since he is ALLEGEDLY dead. i wonder if it's nikolai's (frankly he does legitimately seem like the type to have split personality issues). i'm worried the antidote isn't an actual antidote, and we obviously haven't seen the end of nikolai. there's an actually comical amount of power in bram's hands now. mori's been fairly quiet this season, and there's no way he didn't plan a way for himself to benefit from the carnage. that man is a vulture, he exploits starving orphans off the street! and he sent in chuuya to save the ADA's ass twice and let akutagawa disappear for 2+ weeks! this man was just negotiating to have yosano join the mafia, you can't tell me he didn't get something for himself out of this.

honestly i kind of just want this shit with the hunting dogs and the decay of angels to end and to stop worrying about world domination so we can go back to the ADA battling yokohama's villain of the week, like man the tension has just been building nonstop. give the ADA a coffee break. 😭😭

ranpo fans are truly getting their time lately huh. we are winninggggg

[inevitably-johnlocked]

HellooOoOo Steph! Maybe this is out of nowhere, but I've seen that you've been in this fandom for a long and I want to know your opinion on the way it ended. I mean, the creators, the actors, people from the crew seem to be very open about Johnlock, but after S3 everything changed. Do you think something happened? or everything was for the play? :/ (PD. Thank you for your amazing blog! You're doing amazing<3)

Hey Nonny!

Ah, I've actually talked about this in a few posts before:

Do you think we’ll ever get an S5 (Dec. 31/19)

Do I Think S5 is still a possibility?

Do You think there will be an S5 and was it Queerbaiting? (Mini master post)

What would You like to see in S5?

What do I think about the rumours of S5? (July 2021)

Is there confirmation of S5?

Watching S4 Made me Sadder (discussion about fandom and the future of the series)

about the hiatus, do you think the show would ever return?

The long-short of it is this, and THIS IS MY OPINION, NOT FACT, just speculation based on what I see/read and gossip, so PLEASE take it with a grain of salt:

I think that Ben and Martin were led to believe, right up until TAB, that the show was going in the direction the rest of us thought it was. Martin seemed proud to be doing the series and proud to be "confirmed" a bisexual Watson. They were VERY disappointed in what they got instead. I think Martin was MORE pissed off because they essentially turfed the character he worked very hard to develop.

There was gossip post-S4 that AA had a lot to do with S4's fuckery. Word is that she wanted to be rocketed into stardom the same way the whole series did for Ben and Martin, so she got chummy with MG and SM, and that's why she features so heavily in the season even though she's "dead". I'm a bit 50/50 on this gossip, only because post-S3, she seemed really to want to be a villain that Mofftiss were setting her up to be in HLV. BUT I think there's merit in the rumour that she had a hand in Mary's death scene in T6T... At the time of filming, AA and MF were going through a then-unknown messy split, so she was basically forcing MF to mourn her and John's marriage and Mary's death. Looking at the rest of the season with this in mind, and with how much John was fucked over in S4... I can kind of believe it, but again, this was the gossip going around at the time, and NOT PROVEN.

That all said, I think EVERYONE aside for MG and SM were blindsided with S4. So I lean more heavily to MG and SM's ego fucking up S4.

Though, I do think SOMETHING corporate may have happened behind-the-scenes between TAB and S4. I believe there was a changeover at the BBC around that time, so that may have had an effect.

Another rumour that was going around was that the (supposed) holders of the remaining copyrights on the Holmes IP saw what was going on with TAB, and didn't like the implied Johnlock (this has been a back and forth discussion that's been had here in the past, and has great insight from people more educated than me and corrected me on things I erred on, so do read this post).

This is my saltiest take of the whole thing: Mofftiss were PISSED the fandom figured out TAB before it aired, despite putting ALL the clues there. Prior to TAB airing, it was well known that they kind of had a love-hate relationship with the fandom that they cultivated, but because that fandom made them money, they played into it. Because I suspect they don't think good story-telling means that the audience should be able to pick out clues to predict the ending (which is kind of the whole POINT of foreshadowing), they instead changed their story, retconned the whole series, all for the sake of multiple "twists" no one could ever predict. And without a third writer to reign them in, their egos went through the roof after TAB was critically praised and awarded. Essentially, Mofftiss got too full of themselves. It's well-known that they were doing rewrites literally a day or two before filming each episode. However, when S4 got panned from the audience they were INSTEAD trying to cater to (ie anyone BUT the multiple branches of fandom), they instead took their ball and went home and blamed the fans for it being bad, and it took months for them to finally admit to queerbaiting. AND they won't ever confirm if the series is done because Sherlock the Brand™ still gets them money (ie the Escape Room that is exclusive to people who pay them to see the additional content) Basically: Mofftiss were just big man-babies about the fandom itself..

So yeah, anyway. That's my thoughts on it all. And again, PLEASE know that it's ALL GOSSIP AND SPECULATION, and barely anything has ever been proven. Post-S4, those of us who stayed did a lot of it to try to make sense of what happened.

And don't take any of what I said the wrong way: I still love Sherlock and I still love the show, and I do still have hope for another Season. I'm just... at peace?... with if it never happens, because honestly, I love the fandom and I love what came OUT of the dumpsterfire of S4: art, meta, fanfiction, poetry and prose... I try to look on the brighter side of it all.

If anyone has anything to add, please do. I do like some gossip, LOL.

[matan4il]

Hello! I'm currently reading all of your meta posts and i just really have to say THANK YOU. Not only they are very entertaining to read, but they're so well written and so detailed and they're truly a joy to read. So thank you, you've done an amazing job! I still haven't finished but I'm slowly going through all of them!

Having said this, I have kind of a loaded question for you. Maybe it's something other people have already asked you, in which case I apologize, i still haven't read those answers (so feel free to not reply, but):

Do YOU think buddie will eventually happen, canonically?

I see so many wonderfully excited people in your asks and ot warms my heart to see so much hope, but I personally cannot help but be very dubious and rational about the whole thing. I've been in fandoms for too many years and seen way too many ships be queerbaited/detroyed for the sake of no homoing the whole thing, and the situation with buddie is eerily similar to some of those ships. I don't really want to get my hopes up, especially since even the actors, for as professional as they might be, don't seem to have a good relationship anymore. Between them and Tim Minear being Tim Minear, I don't really see it going anywhere and it makes me sad + it kind of makes not really want to watch the show because i don't want to suffer though it shipping something that just makes me sad.

Essentially, what I'm looking for, is reassurance. You know way more than I do and you've analyzed every episode (and i'm guessing you've also watched a lot of interviews). What is your guess? I really want to hope, but i'm hesitant because i don't want to get my heart broken all over again, if that makes sense.

In any case, thank you for your time and, again, for all of your hard work, it's truly incredible! It had been a long, long time since the last time i saw meta posts so well written and so detailed in a fandom!

Have a great day 💕

Awwww, hi hon! :D Thank you so much for reading my meta and letting me know you're enjoying it, that makes my heart grow three sizes (at the very least)... And your words are so kind, I'm so grateful and will cherish your compliments! I hope the rest of my meta posts will bring you just as much enjoyment! *hugs*

I totally get the hesitance to invest emotionally in a non-canon same-sex couple. I've been there too, and I know what it feels like. I can tell you that in the past, I've had the weird (and lucky) experience that most ships of this kind that I liked, but suspected won't ever go canon, indeed didn't, and a few couples that I thought might, did. There's no doubt that there are way more ships of the former kind, but I think something that has always helped me is that I had a good sense of when a show won't go there, no matter how hard it would hint at the ship. 911 doesn't feel like one of those shows. It feels like one of the shows that could actually follow through on its own promises and narrative regarding Buddie.

Does that mean it def will happen? No. And I don't wanna promise that, because I can't. But I can tell you that I personally have hope. The very fact that I believe Eddie's whole introduction even back in s2 was meant, IMO, to make us entertain the possibility of this ship, I think that says it is very possible that it will happen. I'm not saying that back in s2 the show was def gonna go there, but I think it was gonna fly those sails and see where the wind might take this ship... and there's no doubt that the response was overwhelmingly positive, and that no other possible LI for either guy so far has been able to offer even a bit of competition. And I do think Tim has more experience than some producers with same-sex ships going canon (he was a part of the Buffy verse which had the iconic Tara and Willow, and the shooting scene in 413 very much parallels them), plus he's shown before that he listens to his fans and takes their wishes into consideration. I'm not saying it's the only thing dictating his decisions, but I do believe it informs them.

I also think Oliver and Ryan probably get along much better than people realize. We know that Oliver doesn't have to ever refer to Ryan or Eddie on his personal social media accounts, for example I think he's never explicitly referred to Megan West or to Taylor outside of interviews. Even when he was asked about them. And he has talked about Ryan supportively, even quite recently. But even if they hated each other, I do think they can be professional and give the audience an amazing onscreen couple (I'm not sure, but I think that was the case with the main ship that went canon on Castle, I believe the actors didn't get along in rl, but they still did a great job portraying lovers). Oliver and Ryan have both expressed support for Buddie in the past, and I'm sure they know what a positive effect Buddie going canon can have on their careers, so I'm pretty sure if it were up to them, Buddie would have gone canon already...

I hope this helps, lovely! Thank you again, so much! And may you have a gorgeous day! xoxox

And if you or anyone else are looking for other replies of mine, you can find them in my ask tag. xoxox

[buddha-in-disguise]

I've been around fandoms for several decades now. Both before the internet, through the earliest days of internet fandom, to the present day.

I can genuinely say, the way Supergirl treats its fans, especially the LGBTQ or BIPOC fans as a whole, has been the worst by some margin. Particularly in regards Supercorp in terms of queerbaiting.

Whether those involved in the production of Supergirl want to admit it or not, Supergirl as it stands has been queerbaiting a large portion of the audience. Without a doubt, in terms of a ship, the largest core group of fans there is for Supercorp, and by some margin.

Have there been some fans who have taken things too far? Absolutely. And every good SC fan I know recognise and understand this, and constantly say this.

Yet somehow, an entire fandom gets tarred with the same brush continually.

But worse still, when anyone tries to address the queerbaiting that has gone on with someone who works on the show, other than the women in general, Jon Cryer (who could teach those BTS of SG a lot on how to engage with fans on SM, and not piss off swathes of fans), and Jesse, there are few instances I can think of where it then hasn't resulted in SC fans getting dumped on, or called delusional, or basically saying it isn't there.

Here's the thing.

As LGBTQ fans, the majority of us - especially the older ones like myself - know exactly what queerbaiting is. How do you think it even became recognised as a problem?

Because we called media out on it. The LGBTQ audiences defined it, via our experiences. So we know exactly what queerbaiting is thank you. We don't need to be told it isn't there or isn't something going on - because we are the ones who wrote up the damn definition!

In all my years of fandoms, never have I seen queerbaiting on the scale Supergirl use. Season 5 - especially 5a - brought the queerbaiting to a whole new level.

So many of us now dread S6, because S5 was so bad in a multitude of ways for the LGBTQ audience, including but not exclusively Supercorp queerbaiting.

And I don't speak for all SC fans, but I do see a lot like me are caught in a conundrum. We all love the majority of the cast. Particularly the women. Sure we all have favourites, but also as a whole, the female cast is loved and respected.

Here's my dilemma. I want to support the female cast. Hell I was a Chyler, Katie and Azie fan long before Supergirl, and have grown to love Melissa, Andrea and Nicole particularly. Nicole as a transgender women especially holds a place dear to us. I will support them all beyond Supergirl.

As S6 will begin filming, I want nothing more than to show them I love, support and care for them. But then I'm at the point where I want to just tell the show to go jump, because they've sucked all the enjoyment I had out of it for me. When you actually dread what the next week might bring, that is not what any show should be about. Yet here I find myself dreading what the show might bring.

I also am questioning do The CW even care about Supergirl any more, especially as they finally got Superman, which they've coveted for years, and made no secret of it.

They seem to forget that Supergirl and Superman have two pretty distinct fans. I like Superman, but I love Supergirl. I'm also just a little bit done with all the iterations of Superman we've had on screen.

Supergirl has always struggled on the social media side of fan engagement as well. Not once have I seen a showrunner actively engage with the audience. Or at least, if they have it was a long time ago. The current showrunners definitely haven't. Hell, one doesn't even have a SM account.

But even if a showrunner or others involved in the show don't engage, when others do, it becomes a nightmare. The last 6 or 7 hours are a case in point.

Again, yes some fans take it too far where Supercorp is involved. Yet, once again, rather than just stepping away, a writer got embroiled into something that didn't need to happen, because they gave out conflicting tweets on replies to fans over Supercorp, and then began blocking fans who were polite and respectful and did absolutely nothing to warrant a block.

Then they also liked a post that called SC fans dicks.

Yet somehow again, we are all the bad guys.

I've no doubt that they felt overwhelmed on how the reactions went. I truly do. But I really don't understand why anyone doesn't just step back. Put out a polite post saying it's all getting a bit too much, and they need to disengage. I think each and every decent fan would understand and respect that. I know I would.

But here's the thing.

Ultimately the writer shouldn't be in that position of trying to answer fans on it all. Nor should they dismiss fans who say it is queerbaiting, if they're not LGBTQ themselves.

The problem is Supergirl social media is so lacking, it places a higher burden on writers and others instead. That is on the show. Entirely.

I also have to question just how diverse is the writers room? Having a number of women, if they are White and cis, when you have a cast of characters who are LGBTQ and/or Black or POC, is not having a good diverse writers room. And it shows.

If you say there is no queerbaiting, but not LGBTQ, you need to stop trying to redefine what is accepted queerbaiting.

If someone says it is a gay agenda, you need to stop with that, because that is homophobic. End of. That's no different that being racist if you write it is a Black agenda.

Supergirl put themselves in this position.

I've had family watch Supergirl with no preconceptions on characters suddenly say: I see something between Kara and Lena. Are they together? And being astounded when not only do they realise they're not together, that they actually have 4 seasons of this and counting.

This has come from straight family. Or my very gay, very into men brother in law.

If others see it who aren't involved as Supercorp fans, who might even be straight - that is queerbaiting.

But here's the thing. It shouldn't need us to say others see it too. If a large segment of audience see it, say it is there, pull out receipts to show why they are saying that time and again, that should be enough.

Yet it isn't.

As much as it pains me - I sense now The CW has Superman, they're going to let Supergirl go by end of S6. I'd be more surprised if they announce a 7th season than not.

Whatever decisions on the shows future they might be making, one thing is clear.

If they don't allow Supercorp to develop, and don't get rid of whatever homophobic block is going on for the show, Supergirl will be left with a legacy of being probably the worst example on queerbaiting your audience ever.

The 100 are still panned to this day over Clexa by LGBTQ fans.

Supergirl still have a chance, a choice to pull it around.

Sadly I doubt that will happen.

In the meantime, I'm stuck on wanting to stop watching the show, but wanting desperately to support the cast. That's the conundrum many of us now face.

The legacy Supergirl will leave is not going to be about empowering women if they don't change significantly for S6.

It will be how they queerbaited, how they dismissed the only full cast Black woman, worse still, who played an LGBTQ role. How they dismissed the LGBTQ as a whole.

Those are legacies that will not die away for LGBTQ fans. The CW in general has tainted itself with the LGBTQ audience in more than one show.

What a mess.

And it really wouldn't take much to avoid all of this. That's what is so disappointing. It is an easy fix.

Apologies for any typos/mistakes as I'm posting unedited.

[some-gold-can-stay]

your anti-woman, anti-lesbian take isn't as hot as you think it is. maybe you didn't see it built up, but plenty of people did. again, you don't have to bring women down for your mlm ship, but here you are doing just that. also? there's more representation for wlw ships? do you watch tv whatsoever? most of the time when women are seen kissing it's only there for sexualization and queerbaiting. there's far less wlw representation than you think, bestie but go off i guess. maybe stick to ryan murphy content. he seems to share your dislike of non mlm gays.

I don't dislike non male gays. But I've seen way too many shows where women are favored over men. They will have both but only the female pair gets to show affection. If I wasn't at work and had time I'd list them.

Also, please come off anon and talk to me like an adult. I'm a woman. How can I be anti-woman? Anti-lesbian? Dude Portrait of a Lady on Fire is one of the best LGBT films I've ever seen.

It was fine. I just wanted a pay off for a couple they wanted us to root for and care about. Vince and Ben went through a lot. We saw them struggle with accepting themselves and each other. However briefly. Fuck me for wanting a payoff for the time I spent caring about them.

And fuck you for gatekeeping.

[bciwasinlove]

So this tweet [from a ziammielarrie] showed up on my twitter TL and so much to unpack here I needed to say something about it.

Starting with their first statement most just larries are veterans who have been in this fandom for 7-10 years and have seen EVERYTHING play out from the beginning. The twitter just larries that they are directly refering to who even tho they have been in this fandom for a long time [myself and close mutrals included] decided to look in your videos/MPs just to give ziam a fair chance bc all the ziammies kept calling just larries hypocrites for months. We looked into and we didn't see, definitely didn't see how it's "just like larry" and overall didn't understand the proof left us with more questions then answers which we then asked and we got no good responses.

So please stop finding a way to call us hypocrites in a new way [bc that's what the first part of OPs tweet is doing] when we are long time stans who have seen it all and then go and say we don't care about the closeting larry is going through JUST BC we don't believe in ziam like you do. The thing about the first part of their tweet is they say we don't care about larrys closeting but ziammies main reasoning on why more people believe in larry and less believe in ziam is bc "larrys closeting didn't worked and ziams closeting did." They have a whole MP about that line/topic but doesn't that line directly do what their claiming just larries are doing?

That line invalidates everything larry has been put through bc if larrys closeting had worked people wouldn't see Harry as a queerbaiting womanizer and some wouldn't see Louis as a homophobic party boy nor would you have twarries thinking he got a one night stan pregnant. On top of that if they truly believe both larry and ziam are real doesn't that line make it seem like oh larry fought for people to see what is going on with them behind the scenes and what their being put through closeting wise but ziam apparently didn't fight as hard? So don't say just larries don't give af about larrys closeting when ziammielarries say larrys closeting is a fail their practical out everyone knows. When will they understand not all larries are OT5s btw.

To the second part of this tweet [I've seen these kind of tweets ALOT on twitter where to bring up liam or even zayn they need to drag the other boys mostly louis into their tweets. Can you say something about liam or zayn WITHOUT involving louis please? These tweets could be from a ziammie, a solo stan or an OT4 or OT5. Usually it's an OT4, OT5 or ziam that will go liam or zayn is underrated not louis and a solo stan will say louis is not the one being sabotaged. Excuse me [OP was saying the first one] but both are shit statements that aren't true. If you ask any GP who knows little info they will say they know Harry and Zayn. If you see any hit tweet from a toxic solo stan about this they will say Harry and Zayn carried 1D.

I made this analogy on twitter comparing 1D to season 1 of Glee. Harry is Rachel and Liam is Finn the main ones who got all the major solos in the beginning. Zayn is Mercedes the one who comes in for all the big high notes, Niall is Quinn the dark horse you didn't see coming but deserves what they got and doesn't need big notes for a good song. While lastly you have Louis as Santana overlooked and under appreciated during their time in their singing group but once they were on their own they showed the talent they always had.

No one ever saw/treated Zayn or Liam whether it was the people in charge of 1D, GP, media or post haitus fans as the underrated ones. Towards the statement [not on OPs tweet but what I have seen from other ones] should also be mentioned bc it's a similar topic on how louis is not the one sabotaged. Every 1D member had at least 7 million monthly spotify listeners EXCEPT Louis who barely has 4 million, all the 1D members gets played on the radio every week EXCEPT Louis who I hear once every 4 months at best for his solo music.

The best we get for Louis is hearing him when they play Perfect by 1D! Fans have even called in and asked radio stations to play Louis music and their told they would like to but AREN'T ALLOWED. On top of that we have proof Louis was suppose to put out his first solo album and go on tour back in 2018 but instead became a judge on the Xfactor. So tell me again how Louis isn't the one who has been sabotaged?

I'm just so tired of seeing so many tweets dragging Louis name in it when trying to talk about their favs problems. The worst is when it comes from an OT4 or OT5 bc then it's clear they have favorites and don't really care for the others mainly louis. I'm also so tired of so many tweets trying to call us hypocrites for just being a larrie when we have been around this fandom just as long or probably even longer then some ziammies. Please can't people just uplift their favs and stop bring other peoples favs or groups into their tweets saying things that aren't true.