#but it isnt a case of tearing out the foundations and starting again

[undeadmartian]

The conversation about how to make the muppets relevant again comes up periodically and makes me feel insane for thinking that there's no need to revolutionise the muppets? Like that's it. That's the draw. They're muppets.

[harbinger--of--dawn]

jotaro bg ideas idfk i just copy pasted this from discord after a 3 am brainrot session read it [mind the tw tags] 

jotaro thought time because i cant sleep no matter how hard im trying

clearly jotaro went through some type of major trauma during high school between when we see him in flashback panels and where he is at the start of part three. you just dont have that sort of emotional change w/o trauma

because i have severe brainrot i think perhaps it has something to do with the ocean

ocean life is his spin and has been since he was tiny tiny ofc, but maybe seeing something he holds so dear take from him caused him to become so guarded and afraid-- what im saying is, perhaps he understood what the ocean can take on paper but experienced it personally and couldnt handle it for a very long time

im thinking ! he was likely hanging out and exploring and tried to help a small child who was caught in an undertow and just. couldnt help them

just. a small and physically weak 15 year old jotaro desperately performing cpr on this poor 7 year old. hes barely conscious himself from over exertion and hes swallowed his fair share of seawater but he cant get this kid breathing. theyre in a somewhat secluded area and no one can see these two kids and every time jotaro tries to yell for help more saltwater springs up from his lungs.

someone finds them and jotaro thinks. thank god this poor kid can be helped and there's yelling and sirens and touching and pulling and its terrifyingly overwhelming. it goes into sensory overload almost instantly and after he vomits seawater on a lifeguard he goes into a full on shutdown. holy isnt at the beach-- sadao brought him in his yearly attempt to be a Good Father and hadnt kept a close enough eye. theres no one familiar and this freshman is losing his mind over this kid he fished out and he goes into a shutdown. they cant get him to talk.

jotaros not responding and someone says shock and someone else says "no hes r/tarded cant you see it" and hes too tired to care. his limbs feel like lead and they cart him off to the hospital because his lungs are full of water and hes not looking at them and despite the ableist bystander, this lifeguard is very scared he's in shock. jotaro watches the kid the longest he can but theyre not bringing him to an ambulance. theyre not doing cpr. theyre not doing anything. jotaro coughs up brine and lets himself shutdown entirely

he ends up with a severe case of pneumonia. they had to have him on a ventilator for the water and hes stuck in the hospital for days due to a mix of his shutdown and actual shock. they never tell him what happened to the kid. he doesnt ask. he knows. 

holy is at the hospital before sadao is. she got the call first. sadao's phone went to voicemail.

they tell holy they can take him home when he wakes up if the foundation is there. shes worried and begs these doctors to keep him in the hospital a little longer. just a couple more days. they relent. jotaro comes out of shock only to very quickly develop sepsis. its nasty. hes really badly off for a while and. sadao just doesnt show up. he was ‘called for a show’. nothing. just. gone.

jotaro misses a lot of school. hes really badly off. they try and get him into therapy but hes unresponsive. hes stopped caring in class. hes barely there for a very long time and it tears holy up to bits. suzie q n joseph come over to help because its too much. holy gets therapy too. she responds though. jotaro just sits through his sessions, staring at the kids toys. the doctor tells him he can play with them. he tells her that the little boy should be playing instead of him.

hes gone after that. he pieces himself back together but its wrong. hes angry. hes afraid. hes paranoid and certain everything he loves and cares about is going to turn on him. he sees the endless love he put into the sea and the lifeless body it gave back to him and is terrified of putting anything into anything else anymore. terrified of loving, caring. hes afraid of the consequences hes made up for himself.

he lashes out at holy. tells her shes a b/tch and that he hates her. hes keeping her safe. the farther she is the safer. hes terrified of loving loving loving and losing. hes certain the best thing is to never get attached because you will lose it and it will only hurt just that much more.

he doesnt learn. he sees kakyoin in the water tower and the water up to his ankles and feels the salt in his lungs and knows hes drowning again.

[zalrb]

Stelena wasn't healthy. Their problems are worse because they're not even remotely acknowledged. The show romanticizes them to such a degree that Elena tells Stefan that he was a "perfect" boyfriend who never scared her, who was never a monster, as she's standing next to the bridge that he was about to intentionally drive her off of a year before. The show props them up as "pure" when they weren't even close. They never once actually worked out their issues, or even acknowledged their problems

“Stelena wasn’t healthy. Their problems are worse because they’re not even remotely acknowledged. The show romanticizes them to such a degree that Elena tells Stefan that he was a “perfect” boyfriend who never scared her, who was never a monster, as she’s standing next to the bridge that he was about to intentionally drive her off of a year before. The show props them up as “pure” when they weren’t even close. They never once actually worked out their issues, or even acknowledged their problemsEven long after they broke up and became friends, they still white washed their history. And that’s not a promising foundation for a future relationship IMO. Say what you want about Delena, but their problems were laid out bare on the show. They both acknowledged when their relationship was unhealthy (the only couple to ever do this, mind) and ended up changing so that they could be together in a healthier way which we saw in season 6. And now they’re human and living a normal life, and lasted”            

I read this on my phone when I wok up and literally bell laughed so thank you for that anon, you made my morning. Truly. Now, shall we begin?

Stelena wasn’t healthy. Their problems are worse because they’re not even remotely acknowledge […] They never once actually worked out their issues, or even acknowledged their problems

The thing about Stelena, anon, is that when they do have an issue, it isnt simply acknowledged but it’s resolved and it’s resolved rather immediately so that they don’t have to spend so much time on one issue because they’ve already worked through it and have a better understanding of each other because of it. Every argument or setback that Elena has serves to make them a stronger couple. Case and point.

1x04:

1x05:

In 1x06 when Elena confronts Stefan about being a vampire:

He spends the entire episode answering her questions and beginning to tell her about his past:

and Elena is satisfied with Stefan’s explanation but the issue between them hasn’t resolved yet because she doesn’t know if she can handle being with him and so they don’t move past it, she tells him they can’t be together, which directly contradicts your claim:

And in 1x07 it’s clear that the feelings are still there and yet she doesn’t rush into his arms, he doesn’t push her to because the issue isn’t resolved:

But in 1x09 when Stefan helps Elena despite their circumstances and saves Bonnie:

Elena realizes she doesn’t have to fight her feelings anymore because at his core, Stefan is a good man, he has proven it to her by trying to help Vicki and by trying to get rid of Damon to protect her and Caroline and now by saving Bonnie so the issue is resolved for her because she knows she can be with him, however it isn’t resolved for Stefan so he walks away:

In 1x10 Stefan succumbs to his love for Elena because Elena makes it perfectly clear that her issues are resolved, she’s walking in with open eyes and she loves hm and she trusts him:

Essentially, the issue for SE in season 1 was trust and building that trust through vulnerability and communication, through honesty and they make good on that, they tell each other how they feel even if it’s something they don’t want to admit because they will not be kept in the dark from each other:

In season 2 their issue was external forces trying to tear them apart and them staying strong in the midst of that. In 2x06 Elena breaks up with Stefan because Katherine hurt Jenna, that is their issue:

2x06:

So Stefan partly resolves it in 2x07 by taking Katherine down:

but like I said, it’s still only partly resolved, that sense of safety hasn’t been put back together for Elena yet so they still remain apart:

And it’s when Stefan proves the lengths he’ll go to to make sure the people around him and Elena are safe:

That they reconcile:

And even during their time apart, Stefan and Elena remain open with each other, Stefan encourages Elena to just feel her emotions, to let everything out and let him in:

which she does after expressing how she thinks everything is because of her

And then in 2x15 when they are together, they disagree on the best way to handle Klaus and Elijah and they have that out

which is resolved because Elena chooses to fight and she has Stefan at her side:

I have so many posts that breakdown how they got through season 3, you can read a few of them here:

http://zalrb.tumblr.com/post/146761737865/the-3x22-delena-retcon-really-does-come-across-as

http://zalrb.tumblr.com/post/155811077060/omg-i-never-noticed-stefans-face-in-the-background

http://zalrb.tumblr.com/post/155965695700/in-3x22-elena-talks-to-matt-about-stefan-and

But this takes me to the next part of your claim.

The show romanticizes them to such a degree that Elena tells Stefan that he was a “perfect” boyfriend who never scared her, who was never a monster, as she’s standing next to the bridge that he was about to intentionally drive her off of a year before. The show props them up as “pure” when they weren’t even close

The thing is, anon, Elena is consistently unafraid of Stefan:

and she never thinks of him as a monster

to the point that she consistently opens her veins to him

despite knowing and seeing his demons

because she believes in the kind of person he is, in the good man he is, in his desire to combat the darkness to the point that he had become suicidal:

And because it’s been repeatedly proven that she connects to the humanity inside of him, that he is at peace and calm around her so she heads off his ripper tendencies

(^^ it is also clear here that Elena is concerned not afraid)

So because of all of this foundation, all of this groundwork, in season 3, Elena understood the context of Stefan’s situation which was that he was forced into an impossible situation to save his brother and that Klaus compelled him to kill innocent people which is why she can see this:

and still say this:

She saw him fight

Heard these words

Witnessed him defend her

So no, she never thought of him as a monster:

Even long after they broke up and became friends, they still white washed their history.  And that’s not a promising foundation for a future relationship IMO.

Here, you’re just repeating yourself although I find it so rich that you accuse the show of whitewashing SE’s history when all they ever do is whitewash Delena’s history, it’s like the show’s number one priority next to making Bonnie suffer.

I have an entire post on DE’s retcons, here: http://zalrb.tumblr.com/post/148984820350/can-you-give-examples-of-delena-retconned-moments

Say what you want about Delena, but their problems were laid out bare on the show. They both acknowledged when their relationship was unhealthy (the only couple to ever do this, mind) and ended up changing so that they could be together in a healthier way which we saw in season 6. And now they’re human and living a normal life, and lasted”

So I really need people to stop confusing acknowledging issues with solving them because Damon and Elena never, and I mean never, resolve their issues.

From 5x10 to 5x17, it’s all about how toxic Damon and Elena are and the show thinks it scores points by the fact that Damon can acknowledge that hes a bad influence

but Damon doesn’t stop being a bad influence on Elena. She’s trying to concentrate on Jeremy in 5x17 and he’s intent on distracting her with sex

Damon literally kidnapped Jeremy and told Enzo to choke him because he as upset that Elena broke up with him

much like how three seasons before he snapped Jeremy’s neck because Elena rejected him

and Damon and Elena never even mention it. Instead Damon simply says this

but do we ever get into how Damon’s go to reaction to heartbreak is to punish Elena by killing the people close to her? Does he ever work on that? Because if I remember correctly, Elena has been saying the same shit since season 3:

And your boy STILL doesn’t change. THEY don’t change. Did that 5x16 conversation catalyze a change? Or does this happen instead:

Elena says this:

but do we ever get into how Damon can’t even recognize his own girlfriend? That he is such a narcissist high on his own insecurity that her ex-boyfriend was the one who noticed she wasn’t Katherine and not him?

In 5x17 Elena says they need to be apart because they’re bad for each other and do bad things for each other but is there any real reflection on the problems in their relationship, do either of them do anything to change or does Elena spend 5x18 dreaming about a perfect life with Stefan while Damon tries to stop it.

5x19 Elena is with Stefan again being held hostage by Enzo and Damon tries to get her out.

5x20 Stefan and Elena keep a secret about Enzo’s death while Damon tries to figure it out and they kiss because he was having a bad day.

5x21 Stefan tells her to be with Damon so she listens.

5x22 he blows himself up.

Where is the change, where is the development, where is the growth? There wasn’t any to the point that in season 6, the show had to erase Elena’s memories to start the DE love story over again, talk about whitewashing history, and even in season 6, Damon lies to Elena about the cure because he was once again too involved in his own insecurity and when Lily outs him, Damon and Elena never talk about it. Do not get it twisted, the last thing, the very last thing, Damon and Elena do is evolve from their issues. 

You tried, though.