#but i will say i love the s4-6 religious imagery and i adore their love story w the angels and falling and the righteous sword so

[clairenatural]

Sorry for the MASSIVE ask in advance but

I'm not a big fan of the S4 and beyond, post-cas Supernatural stuff not because I hate cas or his relationship to Dean, I think that was one of the better aspects of the show. I just hate how Supernatural, like many "monster-of-the-week" format shows that get popular inevitably think "Ah yes, what we need is a BIG COMPLICATED DRAMATIC PLOT that always ends up getting in the way of the basic structure of the show" and I think that although them looking for the demon-whats-his-name was always there from the beginning, the introduction of the concept of the angels in general was the start of that gradual escalation that eventually led to them doing ridiculous shit like dealing with leviathans or literally killing god and never resolving any of their previous issues. I know that's a big chunk of the show at this point, but if we're all allowed to have secret good versions of supernatural in our head that's my big thing. At some point a lot of the characters relationships and trauma cease to mean anything cuz like, they were already messed up characters at the beginning, but now Dean's been to HELL. and Sam went to EVEN WORSE hell with LUCIFER, etc etc etc. What did it matter that Dean died for Sam X number of times, and Castiel Y number. Who cares about their relationship to their dead mother or their abusive father anymore (a backstory that was already trauma central) because now super special Empty shit is happening without any of the prior shit getting any closure.

Supernatural is the TV show equivalent of those idle clicker games that wrack up currency into fake numbers they call "nonillions" or "dodecatrillions" or whatever because the scale ceases to have meaning. Would've loved a good version of Supernatural where they toned that stuff down after Dean went to hell and they still introduced cas and a lot of the other ensemble cast members, but he showed up every few episodes and was very sexy and helpful but also mysterious and Dean and he still fell in love without Dean having to be "The Righteous Man" or "Michael's vessel", but just a hot guy with Daddy issues. And also them increasing the number of episodes where Dean bonds with a child x10 cuz I'm a Dean fan and that stuff was always great.

Hello! Your reasoning for disliking how the show went post s4 is completely valid, tbh. You can have issues with a show and criticize it while still overall enjoying it--i have a ton of things I wish spn had done better. Like honestly I super agree with you about the trauma. I will commend jared for actually remembering that Sam has trauma about hell and lucifer because none of the writers did. And cas is just casually suddenly a member of an endangered species, which is never actually addressed, and even dean’s trauma gets erased. and ofc they can never heal from their childhood because j*hn keeps being glorified even after they establish that he sucks. And part of that is because, you’re right, they just kept piling new stuff on instead of taking the time to deal with what they already had. which is disappointing! But I enjoyed watching seasons 4-15 because I loved the new characters introduced and the emerging themes (and arcs--they did get super chaotic, but that’s honestly not the biggest qualm of mine because eventually the arcs just became the generic setting for my favorite little dudes to grow as characters in and that’s what matters to me).

my issue is mostly with fans who hate EVERYTHING about seasons 4-15 except the fact that sam and dean still exist, and even then they often complain about them being “out of character” (when, in fact, they’re just developing......as people tend to grow as people after their early-mid 20s). That’s what I don’t understand. Why keep watching a show if you hate the majority of characters and their development arcs.