#but i fear that fandom interpretation is veering more towards

[headlightsontonight]

also this isnt at all controversial or anything but sam dean characterizations are firmly in my head as two characters putting on an act to desperately be smth that they just are intrinsically not but want to be

sam desperately wants to be normal. he is not normal, because of his demon blood, because of the way he grew up, because of his reactions and priorities. because of who he is

his desire for normalcy is reiterated over and over throughout the first part of the series, but it always involves burying some part of himself (lying to himself and others)

hes playing a part for what he thinks normalcy entails, despite having never experienced it himself

dean desperately wants to separate himself from normalcy. dean is not apathetic to normalcy, in fact, he craves it, the white picket fence life he makes fun of.

he doesnt think that a normal life is in his cards, that it's appropriate to want considering johns quest for revenge and then having the knowledge and skills that he does

where saving people becomes a mission statement, a way he can be useful

hes playing the part of a hero, like in the movies, despite wanting desperately to be out of the life and have stability and family and a home (and he has experienced shreds of it as a child, enough to idealize the experience and want it)

sam and dean are mirrors of what the other isn't, in personality, approach to life, aspirations, etc.

and in a way, this is reflected in the s5 finale. sam accepts his role in the supernatural world and elevates it to become a hero, dean retires and has a pseudo family to grow old with.

(of course, this works on paper and in terms of themes, but quickly becomes undeniably horrifying when you realize that the s5 finale is

sam -> in hell and tortured for eternity

dean -> knowing his brother is in hell and being tortured for eternity and that he just kinda has to accept it) but thats beside the point

[deborahdeshoftim5779]

Responses to “The Marvel of Trelsi Part XI”

Response to this post by BoltonEvans here: 

“The biggest issue with Troyella honestly isn’t just that their relationship is unequal, which would be an indictment in and of itself, but that it’s unhealthy. When we break it down to brass tax; Troy’s future isn’t as important as his and Gabriella’s relationship, but Gabriella’s future is more important than their relationship. Gabriella is always right, and Troy is always wrong. Gabriella is entirely above reproach. Troy’s every action is open to criticism and rebuking. Gabriella sees fit to punish and scold Troy when he fails to meet her ludicrously high expectations, but Troy can’t so much as question Gabriella’s failings and shortcomings as a partner without receiving an icy look from Gabriella, herself, and the justification that Gabriella “always” does “the right thing”, and is “one step ahead, as usual���. When Troy confides his concerns about his future and his insecurities in Gabriella, Gabriella scarcely pays his words any mind before bringing up her own (comparatively less serious) problems, as if she needs to one up her boyfriend. Gabriella can toy with Troy’s feelings and ultimately determine that he isn’t worth fighting for, while Troy scrambles to do everything in his power to keep Gabriella content and at his side.”

Great points. I agree. 

“Yet, it’s Troy the characters in these films, and, consequently, the fandom, see fit to demonize and write off as “not good enough for Gabriella”.

The fandom’s vindictive cruelty towards Troy beggars belief time after time. I conclude that they were watching a different version of the film. 

“Ryan was originally conceived as having a crush on Gabriella, in High School Musical 2. Which, definitely was a byproduct of writer’s bias- two male leads lusting after the same girl? Yeah. Extreme bias. Anyway, in both the junior novel adaptation of the second film (which was based on an earlier draft of the script), and a deleted scene, Ryan attempts to flirt with Gabriella in an outrageously uncomfortable manner by mentioning the previous lifeguard at Lava Springs having awful back hair; implying that Gabriella is far easier on the eyes. This concept, however, seems to have been by and large abandoned in the final cut of the film. Instead, several lines of dialogue, as well as Lucas Grabeel’s performance, indicate Ryan having a preference for the Troy half of Troyella.”

I see no avenue for Ryan having feelings for Gabriella. And I don’t like to imagine what an “earlier draft of the script” would look like, given the final product. What I see in this scene is Ryan walking into a trap with his naiive eyes open, and then Gabriella leaving him to take the flack. He thought Gabriella was being friendly, thought her compliments were genuine, and it turned out that she was a stage prop in a plan to humiliate someone he had no intention to hurt. It’s a disgusting scene, because if you wiped Gabriella out of the picture, clearly the two of them (Troy and Ryan) could have had a nice chat. 

Personally, I don’t think Ryan had a more than platonic interest in Troy, but I do think he got on better with Troy than with Gabriella. He also admires Troy, because Troy has what he longs for: recognition and popularity on his own account. I suppose it is easy to interpret that admiration as being more than platonic. That said, he approached Zeke with a compliment long before approaching Troy. (Not to mention that scene in HSM III “I Want It All” and at graduation between them). Anyway, he does not admire Gabriella, apart from being impressed with her academic abilities. Ryan may also be grateful to Troy, who signed his yearbook-- almost everyone else ignored him when he tried to sign theirs, which gives the impression that very few people signed his. 

Ryan eagerly and without any hesitation declares Troy as having the “category” of East High School’s Absolute Primo Boy “pretty much locked up, don’t you think?”, a large grin playing across his face...

Sharpay asked him a very silly question, which he appears to have taken literally. His tone is sort of “Come on, Shar, you already know the answer to that!” It strikes me that he is very much used to hearing about how much his sister wants Troy, and silently amused that Troy so clearly does not reciprocate those feelings. Ryan’s later annoyance, resentment and eventual anger with Sharpay for using Troy as a tool to replace him tends to make me feel that he would be favourable to Gabriella’s place in Troy’s life because it means Sharpay doesn’t get her way for once. If Troy is unattainable, then he’s not going to be kicked aside. Ryan is a very practical guy. He looks out for Numero Uno. In HSM III, he does not mention that Troy would not like to perform with Sharpay, but that Sharpay can’t fulfil Gabriella’s role: “You... are not Gabriella.” In HSM II, he pretended that Sharpay was “East High’s Primo Girl”, whilst clearly believing it to be Gabriella, hence that funny stare round the corner.

His mood quickly sours, however, when Sharpay begins daydreaming about herself and Troy, leading to Ryan having to take a minute to compose himself before exiting the school building on Sharpay’s heels. 

Actually, he kind of gave her a “get real” look there, by snapping his fingers. I imagine that Ryan is always having to compose himself around Sharpay, given her high drama capacity, and her always roping him into her schemes.  

“...takes issue with Troy potentially performing in the Lava Springs talent show only on the grounds that he doesn’t want to see Troy sing with Gabriella, stands off to the side, beaming, as Troy is introduced to Mrs. Evans...”

I personally think that Ryan didn’t want Troy and Gabriella upstaging him and Sharpay: “What about our song?”. Ryan never actually stated that he wished to see Troy perform in the Lava Springs Talent Show; he even went so far as to tell Sharpay that Kelsi had written a song for him and Gabriella, calling it “a problem”. “Now it’s an amazing song, but Kelsi didn’t write it for us.”-- “us” being him and Sharpay. Along with his incredibly sarcastic behaviour at dinner (which was hilarious), it doesn’t look to me like he appreciates what appears to be yet another dinnertime with him being shunted into the corner, whilst all the focus is on Sharpay, and this time, Troy. His anger when Sharpay announced that she’d be performing in Troy was based on him feeling betrayed by her, and the waste of his beloved “Tiki Warrior Outfit”, not to mention the time and effort he poured into rehearsing a song that he clearly enjoyed-- not least because he got to be the Handsome Prince. His annoyance with Troy at the end of Humuhumu was both hilarious and telling; even though Troy did nothing wrong, he snatched the necklace thing from him and stalked off. :D When Sharpay confirms his worst fears, that he has been replaced, he snaps. Later on, he sarcastically tells Sharpay, “But you and Troy have a good show, sis.” Back in HSM I, he was worried that Troy and Gabriella, referred to as “they”, sounded good-- worried and impressed, rather. When Sharpay ranted against the injustice of Gabriella signing up for the Talent Show, Ryan just pretended to agree with her. He also eventually became good-natured when he saw that Troy and Gabriella performed “Breaking Free” so well. So I don’t think that he was jealous of Troy and Gabriella, but resentful of how Sharpay used Troy as a replacement for him, thus making him feel replaceable. I think that when he was upset about the “Troy and Gabriella” show, he was referring to their popularity and how that would mean no attention for him. We already know that he secretly longed to win the Star Dazzle Award. Ryan seems to me to be incredibly practical. 

I’ve seen the scene where Troy is introduced to Mrs. Evans, and he’s pulling that same face the entire time at everyone, which must take some muscle effort. :D

then, not subtly at all gives Troy’s behind a once over as he passes by.

Maybe it’s just me, but his cap is too far down for me to see anything. It looks to me as though they’re all just getting out of the way. Ryan keeps pulling that face for the entire scene, and sometimes doesn’t even look interested in what’s going on, because almost everyone gradually forgets that he’s even there (as usual). 

The binoculars scene was funny. Ryan looks to me like he’s watching a very good film. However, he is only there because Sharpay forced him to be: later, when Sharpay yells at him to “keep an eye on those Wildcats”, he has snapped and stalks off. I would be more convinced if he decided to keep watch of his own accord. Besides, since his parents own the club, there’s not much for Ryan to do from day to day. So why not spy? :D 

“This is veering into headcanon territory, but… if you factor in the lyrics to “Everyday”, lyrics that Ryan and not Kelsi penned, lyrics that describe both feelings the speaker believes they have only one chance to act on, and Troy’s internal conflict over the course of this film… Ryan likely came to the conclusion that he had blown his one “chance” with Troy.”

Because I hardly ever watch this scene, too pissed off with movie events to stomach the sweet reunion part, I don’t know what the lyrics are. This is a plausible interpretation. But if this song is so important and personal to Ryan, then why doesn’t Ryan, who can play the piano, teach Troy the song? If they’d had that scene together, that would have definitely had more potential for romantic interpretation. 

Obviously, I’m biased, but I just don’t see anyone having the same dynamic as Troy and Kelsi; and Troy is almost completely dependent upon Kelsi to perform “Everyday”, from what I remember-- at least until Gabriella appears. She’s the one giving him the moral support throughout there. I don’t feel that he and Ryan had that unspoken understanding through music that was shown between him and Kelsi. 

What I’d like to know is who taught Gabriella the song. Neither Ryan nor Kelsi are shown to know her that well. Ryan hands Troy the new score and then when Troy confronts Sharpay, Ryan dashes off, whilst Troy is off to rehearse with Kelsi (who manages to teach him an entire song within an hour or so). Where does Ryan dash off to? Is he going to fetch Gabriella? Is he therefore the one who preps Gabriella? So many unanswered questions. 

“Ryan never attempts to approach Troy throughout the rest of this movie, even while orchestrating a scheme to reunite Troy with Gabriella (something Gabriella obviously didn’t want, as she was the one who terminated their relationship) and get him performing in the talent show for the boosters from U of A with a song actually in his range, and a partner he’s comfortable with. It is Troy who seeks Ryan out.”

Ryan helping to orchestrate a reunion between Troy and Gabriella is definitely significant and a very decent thing to do. I think it was a completely naiive idea, but his heart was in the right place.

“And, Ryan’s faces during that sequence say it all. He thought Troy would never have anything to do with him, again, but…. here Troy is, right in front of him, saying his name, apologizing to him, and offering his hand in friendship.”

Yes, I like that scene. Ryan does act as though he is meeting a celebrity. Again, I can see how this might be seen as more than platonic. 

“He can hardly believe it. But, he’s certainly not going to refuse it. He even attempts to ameliorate Troy’s (completely unwarranted) guilt over the talent show by assuring him, “Hey, truth is… we’ve all had a lot of fun. At least I have.”

I approve of Ryan not taking an apology that was never warranted in the first place. 

“I could go on, incorporating graphics from the third movie and break downs of the context of them to illustrate further proof that Ryan has decidedly not platonic feelings for Troy, but I’m sure you’ve got the gist, by now. (And, I don’t want to detract from the point of this analysis, which is intended to be a celebration of Troy/Kelsi, not my preferred ship.) With this knowledge in hand, Ryan’s silence in regards to Troy and Gabriella’s relationship is suddenly painted in a new light.”

I’m happy to discuss all ships. I base ships on their plausibility and level of interest, and though I don’t ship Troy and Ryan, this is quite obviously a superior pairing to Chyan (implausible), Ryella (nonsensical) and Ryelsi (implausible, nonsensical and offensive). All of those three have next to NO evidence in their favour-- I don’t care about “I Don’t Dance”, because it’s a waste of minutes. 

I think Ryan holds Troy in high esteem and they become very good friends, which I think is a positive thing. 

It would certainly be a very interesting headcanon for Ryan (who deserves a more prominent role in some capacity), and one with more proof than for the central couple. But again, I’m biased: for me, Troy and Kelsi are unique (the “Playmakers” *squee* :D) and extremely well-suited for each other, as well as being reliant upon and devoted to each other’s success. They both have something that they need and value in each other that is, to me, a lot deeper than with Troy’s other relationships with other characters. Which is what I’m babbling about in this series, LOL! 

However, I do agree that there are a lot of unappreciated dynamics in the movie series, that deserved far more attention than Troyella.  

“As of the end of High School Musical 2, Ryan and Troy are friends. This is not up for debate. This is a fact supported by their interactions in High School Musical 3: Senior Year. Ignoring the transparent Pro-Gabriella/Troyella bias the entire narrative of that film is steeped in, Ryan has likely come to terms with the fact that Gabriella is the one Troy’s heart is set on. He doesn’t necessarily like it...”

To be honest, I don’t think he looks unhappy there at all; everyone behind those doors looks wistful and impressed at the performance. They always seem to me to be in the middle of a daydream. (Which they are, because this performance is in no way a reflection of Troyella’s actual relationship). Besides, we can’t actually see the bottom half of Ryan’s face in that pic, LOL! I’d certainly like Ryan to be unhappy with Gabriella, but then his later victory air pump during the final Musical performance would contradict that. He doesn’t even look unhappy when Troy shows up halfway through the musical with Gabriella on his arm, and even helps give them another chance! I wish he hadn’t, because Troy should have turned up on his cue, and Gabriella should have fucked off back to California, since she had no intention of performing, but there you go. 

- but he keeps his opinions and personal feelings to himself and tries to support whatever makes Troy happy.

I’d like to see more information about Ryan’s feelings on anything, let alone Troyella. He gets almost no airtime when it’s not convenient. 

With that said, I doubt he’d manage to hold his tongue if he knew the full details of the prom debacle.

Again, I’m hesitant on deciding how he’d react, because I don’t know enough about his feelings, overall. 

I’m really looking forward to further analysis of Kelsi. You do such an excellent job breaking her character down and exploring what makes her tick. It’s given me a renewed appreciation for her. Keep up the amazing work! You’re fighting the good fight. ^___^

Thanks! Kelsi is a marvellous character, who just isn’t appreciated enough in the fandom, so really, she just gives me the material to explore. 

Thanks for the responses!