#but botw and totk are basically the Great Man Theory

[niteshade925]

I can see how the regional phenomena in totk is basically totk's version of a modern 4 horsemen of the apocalypse: pollution (the sludge), addiction (marbled rock roast), climate change (the extreme blizzard; admittedly this one is a bit of a stretch), and pestilence/infectious disease (the giant mosquito boss and the undead gibdo). Which, hey, references to real life issues, great, but what I didn't like so much was how you can just solve puzzles and fight bosses--basically have a handful of big name heroes running around doing tasks--and the water will magically clear up, the addicts will magically become normal people again, the extreme storms will magically dissipate, and the pestilence will magically disappear. Real life does not work that way. I know, I know, it's a game why you taking it so seriously blah blah, but I'm just saying, we have to remember that for any of these problems to be solved, it takes a lot of effort and cooperation from a lot of people to accomplish, and that's definitely an understatement.

[shannonsketches]

Do you think that Oot/WW/TP Ganondorf is the same as TotK Ganondorf?

I know the former are all stated to be the same man (WW coming from the Adult timeline and TP coming from the Child timeline) but for some reason TotK doesn't feel the same guy.

I could be digging too much, but while they seem to have similar goals, they have different mannerisms. Not sure if this makes sense, but Split Ganon seems more like he plots while TotK schemes. Again, no idea if that makes sense, that's just how my brain likes to brain.

And I know this is probably a stupid comparison to make, especially since it was probably just to save money, but ancient Gerudo in TotK have pointed ears while Ganondorf’s are round, while every other time they all seem to have rounded ears (for the most part) which leads me to believe that even the past of TotK is set way after the known timeline, where Gerudo have been pairing with Hylians for a long while, while TotK Ganondorf is another reincarnation of Split Ganondorf/Demise.

(Also, if you would like me to stop sending in headcanon/theory rambles, please let me know. I tend to ramble to people I like, but I can stop if you want me to.)

Oh this is a great question!! I don't think it's a stupid comparison at all, and I always love headcanon rambles. It is the foundation on which this house is built lol So, you're right! From a strictly non-narrative perspective, it most likely was simply to save money on models that only show up a couple of times in cut scenes. Narratively, it may also have been intended just kept consistency with BotW's Gerudo designs which were meant to be far (10k+ years iirc?) in the future (which I, like you, initially wrote off as a side-effect of them having to cross genes with Hylians for so long, same with their bright green eyes where in OoT they were all yellow/golds), and even assuming our genetics theory is correct, from a gameplay perspective it might have been expensive and confusing for the very young players who aren't quite old enough to be thinking about evolution.

But because Ganondorf's model is 1) Being Debuted and 2) getting a lot more reuse, his ears were probably specifically rounded to reflect his previous designs (and also probably also to help make him Very Distinctly Not Like The Others).

To answer your first question: Yes and No.

I don't see BotW or TotK as a prequel or a sequel, I read it as a consolidation. Because there are 37 Years of Zelda Games, a myriad of confusing timelines, and just a metric shit ton of lore that constantly contradicts the lore in other games (which happens when you have 37 years and a bunch of different creative teams working under one title), when I played BotW the first time, I didn't think it felt like a Zelda game at all.

To me, it felt like an open world mechanics flex from Nintendo that happened to be Zelda-themed (which, Nintendo more or less confirmed that it was, from a design standpoint). It's a good game, don't get me wrong! But the fact that you could find items and references to ALL of the timelines, and ALL of the games, kind of made me feel like this was less of a chronological installment and more of a 'stop asking us about the timelines goddammit here take this this is the timeline now' from Nintendo. (In fact I believe in an interview "This is the end of all of the timelines" was their answer haha)

So when TotK came out, and it basically updated OoT's base plot to include Twilight Princess and Wind Waker and Skyward Sword and several other games all together to make it all One Story, with One Beginning, and One Ending, my takeaway was that it's not a chapter in the timeline at all, but a patchwork of all of the Zelda games, so older players can have all of these easter eggs and brand new players can have a big epic story that begins and ends in two games instead of nineteen games.

I saw someone in the tags comment on another of my posts about this that they were frustrated by my saying that BotW/TotK are a good place for new players to start, because the earlier games are MUCH more straight-forward, and that's true! Because they're not worried about fitting all this nostalgia and reference in. But I don't mean that in the sense that TotK is The End All Be All of Zelda games and there's no point playing the earlier ones. You ABSOLUTELY SHOULD play the earlier ones, they're good stories and they're really fun and there's a lot of good juicy lore to extract. I mean it in the sense of someone becoming interested in comics because you found a blorbo in the MCU, and now you can go back and read those comics and Leo_Point.Meme at what they used for the movies while also being able to have all of this much more focused comic book lore you can enjoy.

ANYWAY!! tl;dr, IMO he is and is not the same Ganondorf. He's not any one of them, he's all three at the same time.

[zeldakat]

totk theory?:

(with other timeline stuff mixed in, for flavor)

everyone prepare your tits i went on a whole ramble in two diff discord servers and i need to share my thoughts

[VAGUE TOTK SPOILERS AHEAD]

SO. This all was started by me watching a theory video. In it someone said something about TotK being a closed loop (in reference to the time travel)—which I didn't agree with.

My reasoning, copied straight from my original ramble (with edits for grammar to make it easier to read):

The glyphs were supposedly made by ancient ppl after watching the dragons tears. But, they only appeared after Zelda time traveled

And, iirc, before the sword is sent back the light dragon is there. BUT she doesnt have the glowy light trails on her head yet.

Then I realized all that kinda falls apart bc tanondorf recognizes Zelda prior to her time traveling. BUT I can fix this.

Tangent time. I know this sounds really off-topic but I promise it eventually loops back to the original topic.

So, earlier today I was playing Hyrule Warriors (Definitive Edition) with my sibling, and we were talking about Ravio's weapons being called "rental hammers" and how it would be funny if, afterwards when he went back to his own time, he put those hammers up for rent for stupid amounts of money because, quote, "they have blood from the enemies from the era of the fallen hero in their grains" because he couldn't get it out when he cleaned them and decided, fuck it. I can make bank from this. THAT turned into a conversation about Hyrule Warriors' non canon status, and I said something along the lines of, "if Hyrule Warriors was canon it could solve the timeline convergence problem."

My reasoning for that:

It literally has all three timelines. its the whole fucking plot

^ though they dont stay together, it easily explains references in BotW. and the rock salt thing*

(*The "rock salt thing" is the fact that BotW's item description for rock salt references Wind Waker and basically says salt deposits like this exist bc of the Great Sea, despite this Hyrule. not being underwater. which raises some questions!)

And speaking of the rock salt thing–

I also posed the idea that, if you still dont want to consider HW canon for fun, you could just explain it by the Passage of Time. And just time in general.

THIS theory's explanation:

After Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass (both the same Link) is Spirit Tracks. Spirit Tracks takes place 100 years after WW and PH, and both of those games are like. pretty important to it

Spirit Tracks does not take place in the ocean. (For the most part at least. I don't know much about spirit tracks.) Instead, it's in "New Hyrule", which was founded by the previous hero and Tetra.

^ Basically they found a big ass fucking island (aka. a continent) and were like Yeah this looks like a good place to reinstate the monarchy.

So, even though Hyrule gets flooded in the adult timeline, we still end up with a Hyrule on land in that same timeline.

Slight topic change. BotW (and by extension TotK) is at the end of the timeline. At least 10,100* years after whichever game was most recent, and then some more to account for the first appearance of the Calamity. (Now. I personally am a fan of the theory that the events of 10k years ago actually took place before Skyward Sword (and these events are the Imprisoning War talked about in that game) but for the purposes of this theory we're ignoring that possibility.) (*More on this later.)

That's a lotta fuckin time. A lot can change in that amount of time.

Who's to say all three timelines didn't eventually end up in the same place? Kinda like the evening out of chaos states or whatever, I dunno I'm not a physicist.

And then. this is the part that circles back ok. Hylia, who is the Goddess of Time, just smushed them all back together into one because fuck it man, they're close enough.

I explained this by saying basically, that-

"Time doesnt work like that" as an argument for anything Zelda related is nullified by the simple fact that Hylia is the Goddess of Time and Nayru has significant power over time as well, and since they're both deities they can do whatever the hell they want with it. If Zelda, who is only channeling the powers of the Goddess Hylia via her blood, which—I don't know how goddess-turned-mortal blood works but this is probably a reasonable assumption—is diluted over tens of thousands of years, can go back 10k years, easy peasy lemon squeezy, then Hylia her-fucking-self can do as she pleases.

So the end conclusion to this one is that time can in fact work like that if an ultra powerful goddess of time wants it to.

And thus we circle back. (omg just like time travel,)

Now. All of this is to explain this idea: TotK is a closed loop, but only kind of. "What the hell do you mean by this, Cat," you might be asking. Well. It's simple.

Zelda's presence (in the past) and effects (on the future of that past) are guaranteed; her actions are not.

And what do I mean by that?

I mean that Zelda is guaranteed to time travel, and she is guaranteed to lead to the sealing of Ganondorf via Rauru's hand. This is to ensure the survival of Hyrule as it is in order for this Zelda to get to the point of this time travel in the first place—likely influenced by Hylia or other goddess to be this way so things stay stable. If this Ganondorf were to succeed, then. well. Hyrule would be screwed, because he"s kinda fucking overpowered with the secret stone.

(Now is "later".) (By the way—I don't know the full lore of TotK, but I'm pretty sure this all has to happen before the first Calamity. I would assume that the Calamity only existed as it did because this Ganondorf was under the castle; that's why the Calamity comes from/starts at the castle every time. so. Zelda actually would've gone back a good bit more than 10k years. Cool!)

Now. Whatever Zelda does to make that happen and whatever she does after doesn’t super affect the survival and state of Hyrule, for whatever reason. So, those actions are not guaranteed. Hence the whole dragon and Master Sword thing—the first set of bullet points in this post.

Oh yeah, and the light dragon also doesn't exist until Zelda time travels. That, or she's up above the clouds with all the sky islands, (which is probably the case, given the carvings behind the rocks in the intro section,) but I like the idea that, while that explanation is true for her, to everyone else she just appeared in the sky—similarly to how the glyphs have history but weren't present or documented till the Upheaval.

So, yeah. TotK is a sort of closed loop and that big sentence up there is what I mean by that. I bow dramatically, the crowd goes wild, etc etc.

[beardedhandstoadshark]

I want to know your theories or speculations about the future of The Legend of Zelda franchise! :)

Sure! So basically what is happening with Botw/totk is just Ocarina of time all over again. Big game heralded as one of the best that had ever come out redefining franchise and bringing a lot of new fans with it who connect the entire series to only that game.

In other words, I’m saying we‘re only gonna see botw type games for the next few years, with maybe some 2D (or perhaps even really small scale classic 3D) games thrown in on handheld consoles that will also be very good! But their existence generally disregarded from the "main“ series for. Being on portable ig, idk why people never count the handheld games. A Link between worlds is a great and full-fledged game, so is minish cap.

The next game is confirmed to keep the open world gameplay but not play in the current era, so! We‘ll prprobably continue seeing art style changes, at least. Perhaps a less cell-shaded look this time to separate it from its predecessors, or go the opposite route and back to Toon Link! Doubt they’re gonna make blue the new default color though, even current Link got his green back with the starter tunic. Keeping the gameplay means they’ll probably also keep the dress-up aspect, which I’d be very glad about. Best thing that came out of Triforce Heroes fr.

50/50 on wether they’re gonna pull the shrines again, though. At some point doing that all over again just seems tiring. I can see them doing less but bigger in the future, like mini-dungeons or something. Satisfy the people complaining while also getting something that looks new for advertising.

..less likely to happen but would love to gain some sort of learning system like the sword skills though, or perhaps optional items that function like them. Don’t need them to complete the game, but they sure make movement more flashy and fun. (I just wanna be Spider-Man again ;-; ). Not gonna have any other gameplay-based progression otherwise, as had been with botw/totk as well.

…also, whatever the next few games are gonna look like, botw stans are gonna be insufferable about it XD Oot-stans are still complaining about (and dramatizing) every minor detail after 20 years, and with the games already parallel each other it’s just gonna be them all over again fr. In other words whatever game is gonna come out in 10 years is gonna be great and possibly finally let you pet the dogs lmao