#but aroace and gay julian hcs are also good and valid

[phiatheox]

okay so I understand that "if wishes were horses" could be a difficult episode for #bashirnation because if you take fake! Jadzia at face value then he becomes insufferable. but as someone who is unable to take off my queer-tinted glasses at any time I would like to put forward the interpretation that it serves as a strong case study for Julian suffering from comphet.

now, it's been a while since I've watched the episode so I cannot provide an extremely detailed analysis, but I remember that in the scene where fake! Jadzia is first introduced Julian's initial reaction was to reject her (yes this can be seen as just responding to context clues and being polite but we're having a gay time here), and it's only after she asks him why he's fighting this that he thinks *you're right, society says I SHOULD want this*, and starts kissing her back.

afterwards, when he learns that she's just a manifestation of his thoughts, he responds to her propositions with embarrassment at best and outright repulsion at worst, as if the idea of a version of Jadzia that reciprocates his feelings fills Julian with discomfort. at one point, the alien even says something along the lines of "why would mine create a woman to reject her?" and that's the thing, because to me this episode confirms that Julian doesn't actually like Jadzia: he's just chosen her as the one to safely project his desire to fit into cishetero patriarchal norms onto because she's never actually going to like him back, which is why when faced with a version of her that does, he completely loses interest.

[arojenniferwalters]

No canon straight characters; using labels needed for canonicity? and period accuracy in fanfic

These are some random thoughts I have on couple of posts I've seen on my dash lately, so I'm just randomly writing down my thoughts:

1) most characters are not actually straight on canon because they don't specifically say 'I'm straight' or 'i'm only romantically and sexually attracted to people of the so called opposite gender'.

This is very true. In fact, most character never identify as straight unless there are non-straight or trans characters in the work as a counterpoint. Grace Adler says she's straight. Jennifer Walters is not lesbian. Peter whatever from Doubt is still straight when dating a trans woman. Kenzi from Lost Girl reciprocates Bo's coming out.

I recently wrote a long meta on another sideblog about how a character never identifies as straight and how the writing and portrayal lead to credible non-straight interpretations even though I know he's supposed to be straight.

So basically, straight characters are usually explicitly straight when it's known that not everyone is. If there exists character who are trans or not straight, other characters then might also express their straightness in response.

But mostly it's cisheteronormativity that makes us accept that unless they state otherwise, they are supposed to be cis and straight.

(Of course this gets complicated when we talk about rep bcus 'they didn't say they aren't x or y' doesn't really count as proper rep. But it's complicated, but like headcanons are fair game. Like, 'you shouldn't hc this canon straight character as not straight' isn't a good argument, because few character actually *are* canon straight. Most characters just have the potential to be or are in m/f pairings but that doesn't mean that straight is the only thing they can be.)

2) Labels are great. Labels tell people without a doubt who that character is and it is incredibly validating to see characters identify the same way you do (shoutout to Aled Last!). But does a character need to use a label to properly count as having this identity, if there is strong coding and word of god?

I'm conflicted. I really am. Because you can do a decent job of making characters gay/lesbian/m-spec without necessarily using a label (although not using it can be obnoxious, especially with m-spec characters), that's not necessarily the same with a-spec characters. Because there's not enough rep for us for people to read in and accept the subtext/coding. (Canon ace, coded aro is another issue but that's semi besides the point)

Here I'm mainly thinking of Raphael Santiago in books vs TV show, and comparing 2 word of god demi characters; Rivka of Mangoverse and Julian Blackthorn of The Dark Artifices.

So, book!Raphael for a long time was barely/maybe coded aroace and after he was killed off he became a word of god aroace through twitter. Then came 2017 and the tv show and new book appearances and suddenly he got to verbally say ace (and/or aro) things without using the label. I haven't read-read the books with that canonization yet but it seems to be very clear now that he is sex and romance repulsed aroace. Great.

The tv show canonized his aceness before the books did but they did it without using labels and basically making a mess of his romantic orientation (is he still aro? Arospec? Alloromantic who just didn't feel rom attraction much? He never did pursue a romantic relationship with Izzy after the addiction mess even though they acknowledged that they cared for each other, but was it romantic from Raph? We don't know! *throws hands in the air in frustration*).

As much as I love show!Raphael, "I'm just not interested in sex." isn't necessarily the best way to establish aceness. Mostly because if you google 'not interested in sex', you get articles on libido and how to increase it, with one article talking about aceness, but not in the title. But the fact that Raphael says he's always been like this, that he's never pressured into having sex and is at peace with his orientation does, to me, make it good rep. I still kinda wish he'd used a label though.

Then the demi rep: neither Rivka nor Julian identifies as demi in text. Shira Glassman didn't at first realize she was writing Rivka in a demi way, in fact the backcover identifies her as straight (kinda as a 'there will be no romantic tension between Rivka and Shulamit' way, similar to Bo and Kenzi in section 1). But when people mentioned that she seems like a hetro demi, Shira embraced that and while the world doesn't do labels the way we do, she is still demi. I love her and I am happy she exists and she is accepted demi rep.

Now, Julian is a different thing. In TDA, he is 17, the year is 2012 and the Internet exists. After the 2nd book, people started speculating that Julian is demi based on how he thinks about never being attracted to anyone but Emma, and how he had started to feel different from his peers when he didn't start experiencing attraction like they did. Someone asked about this from Cassandra Clare and she answered the ask privately, saying that if he was a modern, non-Shadowhunter teenager and he had access to information about the identity, that he would identify as demisexual. The issue is that considering the timeframe (2012) and everything about his situation, he doesn't have access to that label so he doesn't use it.

So. Here we have a canon demi character, based on coding and word of god who has semi realistic reason for not knowing the label and thus not identifying with it, even though he would if he could. But a lot of people don't want to accept that. And that's where my issues come from: Julian says and thinks some very demi things, and to me doesn't do anything that invalidates his deminess. Why is that not enough? Like, I absolutely want him to use that label, I want to read him say it and find comfort in it. But why is his character not demi rep enough because he doesn't use the word?

Rivka has similar reasons for not having the label (not our world and the terminology doesn't exist) and while I doubt there are that much overlap between the 2 fandoms, I am curious about the difference. Neither one is not identifying as demi because they aren't demi, they don't identify as demi because they don't know the identity exists. Yet both are still demi characters.

How much does a character have to emphasize that they've only ever been attracted to one person/very few people, with the author validating that reading, before they are acceptable demi rep?

Another point is Princeless: Raven the Pirate Princess. That one has at least one demi character and maybe two acearo characters but they don't use labels. I love them all, but I feel uncertain about talking about Cid as an aroace character because she hasn't been talked about in that way the way Jayla has been. And I love Quinn and I cried when I read that the (pirate) ship has characters who identify as demisexual in a creator letter, but again, no one is using a-spec labels. It's frustrating. But it doesn't invalidate the rep.

3) I think the level of knowledge characters have on queerness should be an in-character discussion. Like, I've written characters as demi without the character using the label; I've written characters discovering a label; I have one fic where there's little possibility of the character having knowledge of the identity (because it's possible the label hasn't been coined yet). I try to stay in character about whether the character would know or have use for label and keep in mind the timeframe. There's a demi pairing I can't really write because neither characters exist in 2006 and beyond. Someone once complained that a book published in 2003 didn't describe the character as demi when the label hadn't yet been created while asexual worked as an umbrella term which included demis, so it still makes sense that the character would identify as asexual.

I don't think it's wrong to have a character be very knowledgeable about queer things if that's what you want to write, whether or not that's in character or realistic within the timeframe. Fanfic is about self indulgeance after all.

Some of that relates to what I'm in the mood to write. My magnum opus is 'this character is demi in all 78 eps of the show, but he'll only figure it out towards the beginning of the last season, just because I want that' and then I have another that's 'screw it, he has a better idea about his queerness but realizes the full picture in s4'.

I do try to be period accurate and think about whether or not the character would have access to the term. But sometimes I just want to have my faves identifying the way I want them to.

4) These are some very random, semi connected thoughts and I'm not even quite sure what the point was. I just feel like writing more about these things.

I am interested in discussing these issues. How much coding does a character need to be accepted as proper rep if the label isn't used? Can rep be valid if a random person reading it doesn't realize that there is that specific coding? If the book has queer readers, is there more leeway (sp) to not using the label, assuming that people reading a book with bi and trans characters or an f/f might also pick up the demi/ace/aro coding? If the author unknowingly wrote a demi character, does it still count if they accept that reading of the character and keep writing them as demi?

Anyway that was a lot of randomness.