#btw I didn't have my edgy phase like that
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dan-crimes · 1 year ago
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I embrace my edgy 14 year old self that would wanna be an overpowering all-encompassing mass of black smoke that simply floats around with no human characteristics besides bright glowing eyes and a flowy cape that's ragged and burns like fire
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3liipzx · 2 months ago
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Old art dump stuff TW: Mentions Su1c¡de
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Girl now realizing as I got older I think I was coping my bullying trauma after I went a horrible experience humiliation gossip that my classmates stole my backpack and sketchbook thinking I was a Satanist when really I like drawing edgy stuff in elementary I guess elementary kids didn't understand the concept of edgy art yet wait until they're in their teens usually thats when the edgy/emo phase comes in 💀(btw I'm in better place now I don't usaully talk vent or talk about my own trauma since yk is it personal just looking back to this yeah sounded like I wanted defenses myself or didn't see as a weak person easy pick on)
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Old Art 2.
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Dogman Fanart & OC drawing
Old Art 3.
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2021 old art
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Anddddd I forgot to add this should've have putted on the first one 💀
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skellymom · 11 months ago
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hello, i noticed you have "elder goth" written in your bio and im like. an infant bat. do you have any tips on anything (music, makeup, clothing, ect?
(srry if this sounds awkward, im just a very nervous person)
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Whew! I DIDN'T FORGET YOU!!! It was an INSANE weekend at work...and I'm burnt. Plus, I like to write my fics and answer asks at my desktop computer and not my phone (fat fingers are clumsy).
Ahem...ok for the Goth Thing:
It's really just about the music. That's it. I mean SO MUCH has evolved and developed since the first wave of that "genre" music appeared on the scene back in the 1970's (Post Punk) underground. Even some bands labeled as Goth now didn't see themselves as such back in the day.
This next list has a lot of good Goth music, with some songs not necessarily in that genre, but close enough that MANY in the community love them. And, some of them showed up before the movement even started (a few after to help with it's evolution), but definitely helped to establish the genre later on (ahem...David Bowie). Btw Marilyn Manson is NOT Goth. However, a LOT of us still love his music as it fits with our dark aesthetic...and remember when I mentioned David Bowie? Well, I am quite sure he helped inspired Marilyn Manson. His Mechanical Animals album certainly looks as it was influenced by Bowie. But, I digress, again... This is just a start on your musical journey...a stepping stone.
People will tell you that if you don't dress or present physically a certain way that you aren't Goth. NOPE. You can dress dark and spooky and edgy but not be Goth. You can dress like a pink princess or "normie" and be Goth at heart. When us older Children of the Night were coming up we did a LOT of DIY (do it yourself) and wore a lot of things you might not consider even Goth. There wasn't the depth, breadth, and easy access of things available on the market like today. We were poor, felt different, non conformist, and just looking for community. That's another hallmark of being a Goth: community. Because back in the day someone might do a violence on you for looking weird (Wearing all black back in the day was seen as extremely socially deviant. ESPECIALLY in small town US or conservative UK/England. People literally were afraid of or hated us. Our brethren: The Punks, Rastafarians, Metal Heads, Rappers, New Wavers (prejudice was doubled if you were a person of color, a different sexuality/gender, poor, etc.) experienced the same thing in society. Then came along The Satanic Panic and OH SHIT what a pain in the ass that was! And The "Moral" Majority crap...) I digress: we were looking for people like us, BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO LOOK EXACTLY LIKE US. Just a bunch of nice, supportive people who got together to listen to music, dance, support the local bands/talent, and try to make it another day. You will find this in the FANDOM, LGBTQ+, and Communities of Color as well...and they overlap.
The presentation is secondary and up to you on how you want to look. You can do it up the max or just be simple in black. My favorite person from back in the day, who really doesn't specifically identify as Goth, but hung heavily in the scene back in the day: Neil Gaiman. The guy who gave us the character of Death from The Sandman Series, published as I was coming into my own Baby Bat phase (based on a real person named "Cinnamon"). Yeah...the character everyone aspires to look like (next to Siouxsie Sioux). He wears just plain black clothes and a long black coat. (Pic of him as a youngin')
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Me, I go for "Lazy Goth". Everything black (even at work-black scrubs) with occasionally printed tee or a dark jewel toned piece of clothing. Usually I also mix in the Punk aesthetic too (I love the music and put patches on every damned thing). Punk is scruffy and imperfect, not fussy. I like comfort and ease of dressing. Especially in hot weather. And, I don't do a lot of face makeup, especially being older. Plus, I rather like my olive toned skin. Not every Goth needs to be pale. Google Goth People of Color. Beautiful and amazing looks.
Beware of Gatekeepers. Gothier Than Thou's. Don't let them crush your spirit. There is room in this subculture for everyone. If a particular club, group, or individual sets that tone, just move on. That shit ain't worth it.
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Dropping a quote from my (sort of) GothFather creative Neil Gaiman:
"Go and make interesting mistakes, make amazing mistakes, make glorious and fantastic mistakes. Break rules. Leave the world more interesting for your being here. Make. Good. Art."
This can also be read as the journey to "create" yourself. You are on a journey, my sweet Child of the Night. It will take a while to find your stride, whatever that is, and that's totally ok. Spread your bat wings and FLY!
Leaving you with one of my favorite songs:
youtube
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thefoxtherapist · 4 months ago
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*looks at your username then at aalto* yk.... I feel like I should have realized the fact foxes are your favorite animals lmao 😭
Anyways... Scar my beloved. As weird of a guy he is, probably the best emotional support you will get lmao💀
(Scar definitely gets cuteness aggression often. Like if you own a pet, yk the moment when you just wanna shake them and squish them but in like an affectionate way? Yeah, Scar would do that to you)
Mortefi not caring is king behavior. Now I thought of something silly. Reader could turn like into a whole monster and mortefi would just be chill with it like it's an everyday happening. (I believe mortefi has the worst sweet tooth btw, yes this one was random)
The Aalto one made me chuckle lmao. He's such a loser I love him. Ofc he thought reader is edgy, he has thinkin from experience. You cannot tell me Aalto didn't have some very extravagant phase while growing up. (Also I'm betting and ice cream he's scared of bugs)
Now to ramble on, just because this days I feel like talking too much 💀
Do you draw? Do you maybe have an art work you would like to share with the class about your oc?
Or maybe anything ya could tell about them?
I'm just a curious fellow who loves oc talk 😔
I would show mine if I wasn't a coward anon and also if it wouldn't be a bother lmao 💀
LISTEN I'M ONLY A LITTLE BIT PREDICTABLE OKAY!! (my other fav is Calcharo btw. I'm just. a dogboy guy, I guess. help)
RIGHT?! Scar is borderline fetishistic about it but he's really just like. genuinely hyped. He would loooooooooveeeeee his partner's scars, its probably his favourite thing on a partner. no matter how major or minor. Dude is THERE for it.
AND I AGREE? omg the cuteness aggression.
Scar couldn't help it, taking your cheeks in his clawed gloved hands. Mismatched eyes stared into yours before scrunching up slightly, grin wide and obvious.
"You're just soo cute~ Just.." He leaned forward, gently nipping the tip of your nose. "Edible! Biteable, even." The Overseer giggled in a tone you could not place except for possibly, crazed.
The way your nose scrunched up didn't stop him from squishing your cheeks with his hands, cooing at you when you did your best to puff them. Scar couldn't help but start grazing his sharp teeth all over your skin.
-
MORTEFI MY BELOVED HE'S SO FUNNY TO ME
Mortefi entered the room, rubbing his jaw as the familiar sensation of a lack of sweets affected him. It wasn't real, he knew that! But it didn't stop the feeling of strain in his mouth.
Your name fell from his lips, "do you know if we have any more chocolate bars?" But the doctor paused, surveying the less than human form in front of him. He blinked once, then sighed.
"That isn't very helpful in my search.." The man turned around, making a beeline for the kitchen. He would find his chocolate bars, and he would deal with what was clearly his lover in some monstrous form later.
-
Aalto is just Some Guy of all time to me. Like I know he's sneaky, and he's definitely got intimacy and commitment issues, and not to mention his upbringing was likely abusive given from what we know of his voicelines about his father. But he's just A DUDE. He has no reason to believe theres another reason so, yeah! You're just edgy. Until you aren't.
I really think Aalto in his teenager years had a private detective phase. Noir clothes and all. It's what led him to the path he's chosen<3 in my heart. Oh and his dad died and trying to find an identity was really hard for him.
Aalto's scream could be heard throughout the base you and your fellow Black Shores members had taken up in. You ran into the room, hitting the door as you slid in, weapon at the ready. But you lowered it when you saw the man.
Aalto was only in a towel, grey hair loose and fluffy around his face. But notably, he was standing on the closed toilet, fear visible on his face. You looked around, trying to find what he was screaming about. Your eyes landed on a spider beside the running shower head.
"I went in and it just appeared!! Babe, kill it!" You sighed, setting your weapon on the counter. You looked around, grabbing some toilet paper and rolling it up. You then leaned up from the bathroom floor, crushing the poor spider.
"I got it, wuss."
-
No I don't draw I've just written a bunch about him :broken_heart: but I'm on a waitlist for one of my favourite artists so mid August I should have art of him that I can share! To nobody's surprise, he is a foxboy.
As for information about him, his name is Esen! He's a Black Shores member, and an Aero Resonator. I really really loved the idea of there being animals with resonance abilities, and even before the current story I was toying with "what if there was second awakenings? why not right?" (looks into camera)
Anyways Esen is a vulpecula(made up in my brain), a vulpes adjacent creature. But he was taken from his home at a young age and ultimately experimented on for the purpose of testing on animals with resonance abilities. This caused a second awakening that forced him into a human form.
He doesn't have much memory of when he was a vulpecula, he just remembers the lab for the most part. I have like a fuck ton of lore written out, voicelines, forte report, ect.
but tldr: He's a funky funny lil hacker guy who upon escaping containment got caught up in a lot of shady shit as a "consultant" for criminals. He caught the eye of the Black Shores, they captured him for an interrogation. Then he stole all their data and tried to escape the island.
It did not succeed, but he was offered a job!
I LOVE LOVE ocs, I'm always happy to talk about mine, or yours, or anyones. So pleaaase tell me about yours I'm so curious!!
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its-snicket-here · 2 years ago
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after you posted that pandoras actor post i cant stop thinking about supreme being!reader who seems very quiet and collected, and they get asked like "what… do you see in pandoras actor????" and they just go full Jessica Rabbit mode and say "He makes me laugh." (this isnt a request unless you want it to be, this is just a random idea i liked btw) I imagine having someone like Pandora's Actor could refreshing ???????? because everything else that happens with Ainz is too intense. Sometimes you need some cringe in your life. Its good for your soul. Maybe smooch it even.
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I still have PTSD from my Creepypasta phase, Hetalia phase, and my edgy/emo/"depressed" phase all together. Every single day I think about it, I curl up in cringe and wish I never remember it in my life.
BUT ANYWAYS
Y E S
I personally see (and hope that everyone sees) that PA is honestly a refresher, because honestly, he seems more... human like than anybody else ironically. He doesn't necessary follows orders without any questions, as he is willing to question orders if needed - but also like, EMBARRASS AINZ BECAUSE HE WAS BUILT LIKE THAT, DESPITE BEING MONSTERS.
I also see that PA is like... an embarrassing remainder of Ainz's more human side. Despite all the exterior of being the wise, powerful, monstrous, all knowing being, it's nice to being smooch by humanity a bit. Just to take a break from the position he's in forcefully. Away from Albedo, away from Shalltear, away from Demiurge, away from everybody that sees him differently. He just want to be known as Momonga, not Ainz Ooal Gown.
10/10 recommend 2 hours under PA's bubble to feel human again with a smooch and a constant reminder of your cringey moments.
I'm also going to flesh this idea out more, sorry this came out shitty qwq
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"U-uhm, pr-pretty lady?"
"Hm?"
The date was unknown during the time when that child asked... everything was fuzzy when you tried to remember that memory. All you remember was the warmth it gave you when you remembered that child. The warmth of feeling human again...
That child was playing with your hair, no, attaching flowers in your hair when they asked. You were surprised when that child didn't fear you when the two of you met. You were an arachne, half spider half human, and still no fear were sensed. That child intrigued you heavily to the point where it became a daily thing to visit them... during the day? No... Night time... It was night time you always come visit. They... They lived in a village where the population wasn't that much, but big enough where... large farms... existed.
"Why do you feel happy when you talk.... P-pandora A-actor?" Your lower body's fangs clicked quietly, almost as it was a laugh when you were questioned about that. A pure soul...
"Well, he makes me laugh... Of course, he also reminds me too much of my... old... friends..." You dabbled on. "He makes me feel like a human. Honestly a breather from my duties as a supreme leader, despite cringing on my friend's creation." The concept of time would seem to not exist when you dabbled on about him while the child would play with your hair.
"One day..." You chattered on, "One day you will get the chance to see him..." The hands on your hair seems to ghost on you once you snap back to reality.
The grass tumbles and tussles against the cold night air. You couldn't see how dark or light the night is due to your blindness, but on instinct you could tell it was dark. You clicked softly, frowning at your own hopefulness. You were alone where a village once known to exist where gone, yet still here you are still at the same spot where the two of you met. In your hands was a messily drawn image of him, though it was slightly crumpled through your reminisce.
"I promised you that you would see him one day..." You said quietly. The grass continued to tussle and tumble in the wind, almost like a quiet melody to hide the silence in the village. "... I'm sorry if the drawing is bad because of my distraction, I can redraw it again when I come visit you one day..."
The pile of stones with many small gifts seems to beg to differ though...
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yuvon-writes-letters · 3 years ago
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Yuvon (and Jake),
I'm actually glad you understand my suspicions and still, I think you convinced me to trust you for now. Maybe that goes both ways.
So, helping each other with those weird situations over letters, hm?
I never would've dreamed of my life becoming this...messed up? Weird? Crazy? But hey, at least it is not boring.
Yes, I was saying the stuff with the chinese food (which I really cooked btw) because of the motel room :)
So, four hours only...But that's something we could have expected: Different universes (as far as we know), different 'time zones' if you wanna call it like that.
Jake didn't I still was not able to reach my Jake, but I took a closer look on the picture. Sadly I didn't find anything. In the moment I'll stay where I am, I don't want to leave my home, but I hope I'll find a way to contact the Crow-Crew soon. Or maybe what (or who) ever is responsible for the stasis desides to 'help' me a bit. The thought of the MWAF (at least that's what I think) being out of the stasis with me is not really calming. I am also thinking about calling other people I know from Duskwood, or had contact with. Maybe Alan, Darkness or even Phil in prison. I have to figure out with whom I can stay in contact.
To help you, maybe you can figure out a bit more of where you are and maybe why you're there? You said something of a library and game room, also a comfy room. Is there something, anything that could give you hints?
Or is there something you haven't talked about yet that you know which could give more hints on your situation? Everything could help you now (even though going or plotting against an entity would be rather difficult) [a little figure that seems to think really hard is sketched next to the sentence]
So yeah, I think that's it for now. Maybe Rai will answer again soon, then we'd be three people :)
Stay safe Yuron, and Jake too!
[Jakes red eye is drawn here]
Liska🐾🔥
Liska,
I'm inclined to at least give SOME trust to anyone who gets these letters, since I'm 99% sure everyone who gets these is an alternate amateur investigator in the exact same position as I was in before being drawn here. You saw me talking about the parallel universe theory with Rai, right? My opinion there still stands. Maybe it's a bit naive, but the shared circumstances make me trust y'all more off the bat.
Yep, we might be trapped in cosmic horror stories, but no one could ever say this is boring XD
I was hoping not to deal with time bullshit. I was so happy when I learned that Rai and I's universes ran on the same time. Guess I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up XD Still, yeah, I really should've expected it.
Calling them would be an interesting idea. However, calling Phil might be difficult, and calling Alan may or may not cause issues; hard to tell with what we know so far. Sounds like Darkness is your best shot, at least in my opinion. (The writing here grows a little shaky.) I think that
Sorry, I started laughing and my lines started going crazy. I can’t ever NOT find Darkness hilarious, he reminds me of me when I was in my edgy phase. Anyhow, you’re probably going to need some type of pretext for talking to him, unless you want to frame it as just striking up a conversation. Maybe send him that picture of the MWAF’s mask you just got and ask him if it’s the one from the legend? You’ve come to him for info on the MWAF before, it probably won’t come off as an odd question.
I mean, odd for reasons other than you being sent a photo of the MWAF’s mask. Whatever, you get what I mean.
As for the rooms: there’s been something I’ve been obsessing over for a while, now, but I haven’t been able to get anywhere with it. I don’t know how much you know about video games, but for purposes of what I’m talking about, there’s basically three types: Singleplayer games are self-explanatory, and I have more than a few in the game room. Multiplayer games, on the other hand, come in two variants. There are ONLINE multiplayer games, where you play with random people on the internet. I have none of those, which is probably not surprising given all my other restrictions.
What I DO have are what are called LOCAL multiplayer games. These games are basically meant to be played by someone in the same room as you, on the same console (I’m usually a PC gamer but local multiplayer is generally a console thing.) There are also board games (multiplayer!) and even some DnD handbooks!
What’s most interesting to me, though, is that almost everything so far has been tailored to my interests. Books are all genres I enjoy, games are all genres I enjoy, etc etc. But buried under some other stuff is a chessboard. I’m AWFUL at chess and generally avoid playing it to avoid humiliating myself.
So something’s definitely up with that, though I’m not entirely sure what.
(Blacked out) (Blacked out harshly) (Blacked out) fe No, nothing of particular note I haven’t said yet. There’s those three rooms to the “south”, “east”, and “west”. There’s infinite paper. Whenever I get out of here I’m gonna get hit with a fine for littering XD   I have a pen that doesn’t run out of ink, a pencil that doesn’t seem to get dull, a paper clip with all the letters I’ve gotten or sent so far, and my malfunctioning phone which doesn’t run out of charge.
For a rehash of the rules I’ve learned of this place: I don’t need to eat or drink. I don’t get injuries. Nothing can pass through the invisible barrier. The trees are pass-through-able if there’s a room on the other side. I am not allowed to contact anybody not somehow related to the Duskwood case. Unless I take action to spur them on first, the Crow Crew remains in stasis except for on landmark days like Father’s Day. (Jake is no longer in stasis, exactly, but he can’t get anything new on the case either. He considers it a variation on the stasis.)
:) Yeah, hope Rai’s doing okay. They probably just had something come up in their life, and that’s why they haven’t written for a little bit. Or maybe they moved and the entity keeping me here didn’t update the address XD
Jake wants to try to figure out if there’s a “conversion rate” for time between our universes. I suspect there isn’t a conversion rate, but it’d be good to figure out one way or the other. We’re taking notes on the approximate times we get your letters and send ours back to you. Your letter was received about 12 hours after I sent the last letter, and I’m sending this one somewhere about about 2 hours after I got yours.
Jake highly recommends you don’t call Alan. And while he personally doesn’t mind if you call Phil, he says that based on his own previous behavior, your Jake might not be too happy about it XD
He also suggests that maybe the reason my letters sent so oddly in the first place (introductory, then all the others at once,) had something to do with the time bullshit. Seems possible, I guess, but that might imply your stasis doesn’t have anything to do with my stasis; I figure if my entity was the one doing your stasis it could bypass the stasis to deliver the letters.
Speaking of stasis: I know it’s dangerous, and I know you’d be breaking your promise... but what would happen if you physically went to Duskwood? Probably too bad of an idea to actually try unless you get really desperate, but it’s something to think about.
You be safe too, Lis :)
—Yuvon and Jake
(The letter tucks itself into the paper clip with the others.)
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istanhooman · 4 years ago
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I'm going to be making head canons and the like on these characters by @yesimahooman
Totallyahooman, the owner of these characters, said I should make a post about her characters so you all know what you're getting into hehe. They're all cats btw, and I'm on my phone so there's going to be mistakes. Most likely.
Apparently these characters are called the "meme team" because Totally made four of them (Toby, Oliver, Gingerale, and Milo) for an animation meme and fell in love. They didn't even have names until like a month later ig lmao
Toby: He's really friendly, but unlike Two-Tone understands boundaries - even if he's a little hyper and annoying. Toby will happily drop anything for his friends. Basically the generic "good guy" Character (But Totally says he had an edgy phase in a cat's version of teen years). He has three little sisters, who always insisted on playing with him, which didn't work well with his edgy phase. Totally told me he doesn't have a father, but he has a mother that looks a lot like him and she's the sweetest darling ever. Toby's the peach-ish, brown and white one.
Two-Tone: Speaking of Two-Tone, the wittle baby man omg I love him. Totally said he was originally made for the weird animation memes, because she had the nice one, the anxious one, the dad-friend, the angry one and the murderer. And yeah, you can use an edgy killer for weird/edgy memes, but she wanted WEIRD. And so Two-tone was made. But he apparently evolved into a really sweet cat who just doesn't understand how to communicate with people. He's been friends with Toby since childhood (kittenhood?) and seemingly came from nowhere. No parents at all. Toby's family basically adopted him (though I kinda ship them???)
Oliver: Anxious boyo. He's the blue one with big worried eyes. I also love him, he's so adorable. Anyway- Oliver's worrying about everything, constantly. He's also really easy to pick on because he'd be too scared to defend himself. Actually, Cinder tries killing him the most out of the team, which forces Gingerale to protect the bb. Totally told me that when she draws the two, she can't help but draw Oliver huddling behind Gingerale for protection and I live for that. She also said that he was an only child, so he learned how to be by himself and is still getting used to actually being around other cats. She said that Oliver's mom is also really sweet, but she was too soft and didn't force Oliver into anything he was uncomfy with (which were simple fears like the dark or strangers) and so he never got that exposure that's needed to NOT be a crying mess.
Gingerale: The ginger cat. He's a very grumpy boy and hates all things fun. Actually that's not true, but he's very tsundere. He'll bully his friends, but as soon as someone does it, he's going OFF on them. He somehow always catches Cinder when she's trying to kill the team, too which would he so much fun to see. Totally said Gingerale's used to being ignored because he was one of the middle kittens of TWELVE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP RNAKKD. kinda sad to imagine tho, poor bby.
Cinder: Finally, the one I kept mentioning. The gray and white gorl. To explain her murderous ways, Totally gave me a run down: As a kitten, Cinder was severely bullied by three older ones. Their mothers didn't do anything to stop it, and Cinder's own mother was too deep in self-pity due to her mate leaving her. All because he didn't want kittens :(. So, Cinder didn't get anyone to defend her from these bullies. One night, Cinder's mom stands up and straight up leaves. Totally gave a small, sad detail of "So, wondering where her mom was going, Cinder followed after her. But Cinder's mom turns only to push the kitten away, giving her an angry glare before leaving for good. Cinder's never seen her again." And i- that's so depressing. Anyway, Cinder finally snapped and killed one of the kittens bullying her. Finally the mothers cared, but only for their own. They exiled Cinder from the area, and Cinder complied. But she never forgot how nice it felt to finally have some power and since then, she's just kinda- killed cats. Totally finished it with "Cinder found the meme team and thought they'd be easy, but Gingerale's a good match against her. So... She's just for comedy's sake now I guess". That was long, sorry.
Milo: Big boi. Big soft boi. I really like him, but also I couldn't help but think about Milo from Pokemon Sword and Shield. I told Totally this and she went "Yeah, I made him before the game was officially out and before I played it. I had no idea" And I'll just accept her word. He's cute tho, the gray tabby. He's bigger than his friends and is super fatherly to them, even though he's around their age. Always making sure Oliver isn't so scared, Two-Tone and Toby are out of trouble, Gingerale actually socializes and the twins are recognized more. Very sweet.
Aidan: Speaking of the twins, they're the last two I need to tell you about! First is Aidan. He's the one with sunglasses. And also the spikier fur, and he's the boy. I like him because he thinks he's really cool and popular, but he's not. In fact Totally always forgets the twins exist. She's getting better at it, she says. She told me that Aidan is that one "I'm so cool" character who's calm and collected usually, but if a girl (or boy, she claims their sexualities are never specified and up to interpretations for the creativity) flirted with him, he'd DIE. I need to make hcs on this.
Nadia: The pretty girl. Basically it. She's really nice and understanding, but always finds a way to insult her brother casually. The twins have always been there for each other, but at the end of the day they're siblings. They're going to argue with each other. In fact, Totally said she likes to take a bit from her own siblings and say things like "Oh yeah, and Nadia one day would be all 'Aidan, brother, listen to me. I love you, but you're ugly. No girl would like you' And Aidan turns to his sister, slightly pulls down the sunglasses that somehow stay on his face and glances at her up and down before sighing, 'But Nadia, you're forgetting. You look just like me, but curly. You're just as ugly as I am, and you won't find love either.' Or smth like that. Just the casual insulting chaos that is siblings".
EDIT: Totally told me she updated character sheets and said I should replace the old ones! So most of these aren't old now
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