#both written by devin grayson btw

[casscainmainly]

"If you want to continue working with me... with my family... you need to commit. You need to decide in your bones that you're not going to lie down and die."

"You lost sight of the value of Roland Desmond's life. If you need me to forgive you for that, I probably can[...] but[...] you have no right to expect me to excuse you - for losing sight of the value of yours."

Gotham Knights #2 // Nightwing (1996) #117

[dickgraysonsptsd]

(hey this is Barks 👋 this is my main)

Thought it would be fun to ask what your fav Nightwing adventures are :) they don't have to be 'good', just the ones you vibe with!

HI BARKS i love your art sooo much btw. thank you for saying they don't have to be "good" because what i would say while trying to look like i have good taste and what i would say for my actual faves/the ones that stick in my head the most is. different.

i'm keeping these specifically to dick-as-nightwing stories, so no robin or dickbats stuff! and i tried to go for self-contained single issues or short arcs where possible. and tried to minimize my nw '96 picks because otherwise this would genuinely all be nw '96 (my beloved). OKAY YAY LETS GO

🚨🚨LONG POST WARNING🚨🚨

batman: year three

i usually go for robin annual #4 (juvie) for my personal dick backstory rather than the one presented here, but there's so much to love about this arc and so much that sets up alpod and eventually nw '96!! bruce as a character defined by and constructed upon his grief (over his parents) and dick coming to try to intervene in a time of their mutual grief (over jason) that overlaps with an event related to DICK'S grief (over HIS parents) is such a great layered story!!

showcase '93 #11-12

just a fun little nightwing/robin team-up circa azbats era, written with tim as the narrator. we get a lot of tim fanboying over dick and an aside in #12 where dick is clearly rattled by how he left the titans (in the aftermath of his breakup with kory) + feeling adrift as nightwing (yum!). and this panel has really stuck with me:

dick won't treat the robins like kids in the sense of talking down to them or babying them, because he knows what that feels like (bad! like your grown-up doesn't trust you! like you aren't capable enough!) but he also knows, as the grown-up himself now, that they do have to be kids. they have to have childhoods. and they have to acknowledge their limitations and their capabilities as children, but without being treated like kids for it.. urghh it's so good!! it's so like him!! it's so consistent with how he interacts with damian in dickbats era!!

there's also this bit of classic Dick Grayson Blaming Himself For Anyone Dying Ever And Craving Atonement For His Sins:

it's a very straightforward little story, but there's a lot of great characterization and tim+dick relationship stuff packed into it!

nightwing (1996) annual #1

dick goes undercover as the new groom of a suspected black widow! this issue reveals that BRUCE TRAINED HIM BY ASPHYXIATING HIM ON DOZENS OF TOXINS SO HE COULD "PROPERLY DIAGNOSE THE SYMPTOMS OF DISTINCT FORMS OF ASPHYXIATION" which is so kinky it makes me ill (positive):

it also has a scene where dick takes the suspect's son to the circus and they bond over both having dead dads, and later there's a moment after dick reveals to his "wife" that he was just there to investigate the murders when he seriously considers staying with her and the kid and like... give this man a baby NOWWWW!!!!!!

nightwing/huntress #1-4

this is such a classic devin grayson "everything in dick's life is ultimately about his relationship with bruce" storyline (she's right.) (don't check to see how much of this list is by devin grayson btw!!!) and i really like the art in it! i think huntress fans generally don't like this story so i'll reassess after i read more huntress :pensive: but for now i enjoyed it a lot--devin grayson's voice for dick is my favorite!

nightwing (1996) #86

dick gets shot in the arm, becomes manicwing, and alfred + babs force him to take time off to heal against his will (and deal with him climbing up the walls when forced to slow down). i love the entirety of the tarantula and blockbuster arc but this issue is a stand-out to me for being weirdly funny, involving multiple relationships in dick's life, and letting you see what happens when he CAN'T work, which reinforces why nightwing is so essential to him (which then plays into why he and babs break up soon after). this issue does a lot for this arc imo!

also featuring dick's burgeoning obsession with america's most wanted, which will flourish in outsiders (2003) when he goes full autistic hyperfixation and literally calls john walsh to guest star

titans (1999) #10-12

slade comes to the titans for help rescuing addie from the remnants of the hive organization. i love to see dick acting as team leader and i LOVE when there's pushback and conflict involved and i LOOOVE so much of the titans' history (and therefore dick's history) coming into play!! and most of all i love dick being relentlessly, devastatingly heroic at all costs:

yeah he ties himself to a falling bomb in an effort to disarm it in midair knowing that even if he succeeds he'll probably die. and he does it. successfully. madman.

batman: gotham knights #8-11

there is so much to screencap in this arc, it's insane. the iconic "complicated... sticky and hot..." scene, dick saying bruce can't be dead because dick would know if he were (which connects forward to bruce's "death" arc in such a painful way... he WASN'T dead!!! and you DIDN'T know!!! SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN DICK, HUH??? DOES IT MEAN ANYTHING?? IS YOUR SOULBOND REAL OR IMAGINED?? IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM REAL OR IMAGINED?????), dick reciting the oath to amnesiac bruce, dick flinging himself off a building, tim and dick eating popcorn while they watch strange and batman fight, the buildup to murderer/fugitive... it's soooo good!!!

batman: gotham knights #14

JPV: Are the women safe? Dick, sarcastically: No. I let them get shot.

this is the dick writes a letter to bruce issue (you know the one), which would land it here anyway, but it's ALSO the dick has to work with jpv and is a huge cunt about it because he remains deeply jealous of jpv for somehow earning bruce's approval in a way dick didn't issue. god bless! we love him at his most petty and uptight!

battle for the cowl (2009) #1-3

people hate this event so much and for what!! this is a great comic for dick and his relationships with bruce's legacy and the other robin boys. and it has what i lowkey think is the most beautiful single page of nightwing art:

and then uhh yeah the entirety of nw '96. the whole thing.

[pyroreadscomics]

Hell yeah, Catwoman sideblogs for the win! (though, techincally, mind isn't just a catwoman sideblog it's a general comics one, but dear god have I been single minded for the last year+) I loved that backup story. Short but really gave Eiko's character a chance to shine. Now when will Holly return from the war. I'm about 50/50 on the GCS becoming a love triangle or a polycule the next time they get a full series together. Probably not in the upcoming mini series though, not really enough time to flesh that out. Also, we seem to have wildly different opinions about Selina's love interests. I'd guess because your ranking is in some substantial part based in how healthy it'd be as an actual relationship (where, yeah, Valmont would be pretty low down) where as if I were to write up that list people would be scoring extra points for how interesting that relationship ended up being to read. So like... Valmont would be upper mid-tier despite being a walking red flag just and someone sweet and inoffensive but dull like James Thien would be significantly below him and Slam Bradley (not Sam Jr) would get really high up just because Relentless and No Easy Way Down (the two stories that have them as a romantic pair) are among the best Catwoman stories ever and their dynamic is part of that. Also btw, Eiko's top 3 just below Bruce and just above "Selina should stay single actually" as a love interest. Trickster as love interest only happens in that Devin Grayson story where Selina runs for mayor of New York. And you'd probably put Spark close to dead last because imo he's just Valmont but worse (both like as a person and also in being less interesting while serving the same role in the story (ie, untrustworthy thief who's working for an evil organization Selina starts working with and then catches feelings for in a way that makes her seem a bit dumb (but then early New 52 Selina written as a dumbass in general)))

What are your thoughts about Howard's Catwoman run?

The run being really gay doesn't save the writing from being really mediocre.

(More nuance below the cut)

Well that was snappy, unfortunately my thoughts are many and complicated and probably won't be entirely ironed out until a few months after she leaves the book or I reread the run again, or both. That phrase was something I said while reading through the series for the first time a some months ago that I still mostly stand by, but now feel the need to caveat and add nuance.

(Also, it feels weird that, because I put off answering this for months, the end of Howard’s run is just a few months away now, but I’m just going to assume the ending is neither so good it retroactively makes everything better or so bad it tanks the run with guilt by association)

When I say mediocre, I very specifically don't mean bad. I'm using mediocre to mean it's average, ordinary, of moderate quality. Not bad enough to hate, or even particularly dislike, but not good enough for me to shed a tear if it was suddenly canceled (which… seeing as it’s end is now on the horizon… I’m actually filled with anticipation as to what comes next.)

And like many multi-year runs, Howard's Catwoman has had it's ups and downs while it's low points are i think widely known: Her dialogue tends towards what i can only describe as AO3 generic, the plotting itself is sub-par, Gotham War disappointing even though there was no way to go into it with high expectations (joint effort i know, but even taking only half blame for it Tini Howard doesn't come out of that event looking remotely well), and I have an entire rant ready for how I dislike how Black Mask is used in that series.

1. The reintroduction of Eiko

But, that said, at this moment I do feel like calling out some highlights of Howard's run (or at least, the bits of it I really liked.)

Also yes, alot of this could be considered fanservice, but I’m at least acknowledging that things that make me happy don’t inherently make a run good. (but at least more enjoyable to slog through than Tom King’s batman or most of her New 52 stuff)

Okay, let me be clear, Eiko in this run is a shadow of her debut in Valentine's run but Selina's supporting cast has a worrying tendency to disappear without a trace after one, max two runs, so damn if it wasn't nice to see Eiko suddenly reappear in a major role in the Catwoman run after a 6 year absence and not have her confined to the dustbin of comic history alongside other Catwoman supporting cast members such as Gwen, Alice, Zee, Clutterbuck, Wilder, Arizona, and Cassandra Cartland (If you knew every single person i mentioned without having to check, I like you, and you like me also know too much about Catwoman)

If nothing else, if Eiko's appearances in this comic, and her guest appearances in other current Gotham stories (like Punchline: Gotham Game or Ram V's excellent Gotham Nocturne) manage to cement her as a persistent part of Catwoman's cast, this run will have done enough for me to earn a passing grade.

Also I like Eiko's new catsuit and not just because it makes it easier to tell her apart from Selina

2. Catwoman #43 & #44 (The Harley Quinn two parter)

Judging by the mood in the room, If anything gets me an angry response it's going to be this.

It's fun, it was a fun two parter, and honestly there are times when I wish more writers would stop trying to do the high drama stories they're kinda bad and instead write fun inconsequential side stories.

Also yes I do ship it. What of it?

Actually speaking of

3. The queerness.

It’s not a lot, but for a character who’s been out as bi since 2015 Selina is never written that way (at least in the main comics, I understand the HQ show and the recent movies have either explicitly or implicitly had bi Selina). Like it’s so bad Selina doesn’t even get pride tie in stuff, no appearances in the pride anthologies or even pride variant cover. JFC Nightwing gets one every year and last time i checked he was still canonical cishet. And… a bit like Eiko, but less important, it’s nice to have another run where Catwoman is canonically queer. Selina acknowledging Eiko as an ex, flirting with other women, that Selina and Harley sharing a bed scene. It’s just nice to have that part of Selina’s character acknowledged.

Also it’s so minor but the gay bar called Conroy’s got me just a bit.

4. Knight Terrors

On balance, despite me having criticisms of it, I did like it as a version of “What does Selina’s worst nightmares look like”. It’s not quite as good as Devin Grayson’s take on the matter (and ain’t that a sentence) but I’m a big fan of Selina’s mind dark fears conjuring force a lot of catholic imagery and doing something actually interesting with the Sister Zero concept. (It’s really just a shame that this story is clearly setting something up for Gotham War that never actually gets paid off, which is wild considering that was literally the month after Knight Terrors)

Lastly:

5. Valmont

Look, I really liked Valmont for two reasons, one of which is superficial, one of which actually had thought put into it.

Superficially: Selina deserves a whipped subby bisexual twink, as treat. Sure he's a cocky asshole, sure he looks like pirate au ghostmaker, sure he's ready to murder anyone who looks like a threat to his dom love (and honestly anyone in general), but honestly that's all part of the charm.

Because Bruce, as the whole wedding thing shows, is big on these concrete declarations of affection, even as he’s really bad at actually expressing his affection in more casual ways. And Eiko, as she says, is “comfortable with these declarations, names. Things like titles and vows.” So in dating either of them Selina would be consenting being put into a box and labeled, even if it's a box as unconstrained as “dating” and a label as loose as “girlfriend”.

But, putting a bit of thought into things, Valmont has this really interesting role in the story. He's the obviously incorrect choice in a love triangle, but also the one who Selina would pick anyway.

Like, the issue before he dies the story teases a bit of romance with Bruce and Selina, and earlier there were some teases (or.. maybe acknowledgement is the right word?) between Selina and Eiko. There's two existing love interests for Selina, Bruce, who's the moral and safe choice, the wedding bells and gaggle of step kids choice. And there's Eiko, who's a major crime lord, one who's conducting business with some of the worst in Gotham. If it was just the two of them (especially if Eiko was closer to her Valentine personality), it'd be a pretty classic "the good boy and the bad boy girl" love triangle but Valmont is here, and he adds an interesting angle onto that love triangle(?) (is it still a triangle when there's three potential lover interests?).

(A reversal on Eiko and Selina’s very undefined relationship in Valentine’s run, which could be seen as divergence for the character but also kinda makes sense. With Eiko ending that run by shedding Catwoman (and identity that embodied personal freedom and also rebellion against her father) to become the head of the Hagisawa family (an identity marked by responsibility to the family and her place as her father’s heir) that going forward she’d be a lot less likely to engage in a nebulous undefined relationship when her life is now, by choice, very defined. It’s still however one of those things that assumes a non-zero amount of character development happened off screen.)

But Valmont? Valmont doesn’t ask anything *of* Selina.

Sure he does initially, “hey here’s this cat, I know where you live, join my thieves guild”. But this tactic gets him shot down by Selina and at best relegated to “untrusted ally” status (and more likely “useful but dangerous”). But after this, and after a brief break during the CatQuinn two-parter, Valmont’s back with a new tactic called “I’ll do literally anything you ask of me, including stopping killing people, and ask for nothing in return.” Which… with Selina being somewhat adverse to long term commitment (or commitment in general depending on the writer) this works.

Valmont’s hardly a healthier romantic option (he might not be the worst person Selina’s ever dated, but he’s still at the end of the day an arrogant invasive assassin) but he puts a spin on himself that makes Selina let her guard down around him and they do eventually become some vaguely undefined item.

And then in his final issue, Bruce accuses him of still being loyal to the league of assassins and of manipulating Selina. Then he kills again in the process of undoing a problem he caused, and gets in a big fight with Bruce about it. And when Valmont goes to kill Bruce, she kills Valmont which… It’s a weird moment for Selina, she’s normally very reserved about killing people and while yes needing to save Bruce could theoretically push her far enough. But also, it’s the best thing this run could do with Valmont.

Because Bruce’s accusations (along with Valmont’s general sketchiness) lead to this question with Valmont: does he genuinely love Selina, or is he using her for some unknown end? Because he know what he’s naturally like (down with murder) and we know he’s changed his behavior, but we don’t know whether it was because he wanted to be with Selina enough to change himself for that chance (which… understandable) or, if he was on some deep cover mission to manipulate Selina towards and he changed behavior in order to further his own covert ends. And… imo the possibility of it being one or the other is more interesting than any story you could get out of committing one way or the other.

And by killing Valmont, the run gets out of having to answer this question, which, again imo, is the most intelligent narrative decision this run made aside from bringing back Eiko.

That said, If in the last two issues Howard answers the question of “what really was up with Valmont” I’m retroactively taking back all of this praise and will be downgrading this run to "of poor quality but at least Eiko's here"

[bat-lings]

whats your opinion on dickbabs?

Thanks for the ask and your interest, Anon! (that got long though, jump to the last paragraph for the condensed version)

I’ll start off by saying that I’m not a big romantic at heart, and never a hardcore shipper. I’ll very rarely favor one ship over another if they’re both well-written and respectful to the characters which is why ship wars make no sense to me but movin on

Consequence: dickbabs is a very easy ship to get involved in for me, ‘cause their dynamic is extremely rich and doesn’t stop nor start with romance. Their getting together is a process as opposed to the typical knee jerk, love at first sight, star-crossed lovers scenario. It feels right for them development-wise and thus very natural to me, which is a big selling point.

Batgirl: Year One as a retcon installs the potential for their relationship from the get-go. Their dynamic is already fun, but while Dick is crushing on Barbara basically from day one she pushes him away— which is best for both of them at the time. They both have some growing to do (especially Dick who’s a bby and totally acting his age) before they can really fit together.

I like that dickbabs doesn’t actually happen until they’re both in adulthood, when they’ve grown into their own persons and have had other meaningful relationships (namely Kory & Jason Bard respectively, both of which where also relationships that developed & occurred over a long time-span). After that Dick and Barbara come to a point where they click, can and want to construct something together. And even then, it takes time. It’s often implied that they were in their way to have something before the Joker shot Barbara, and then everything was put into question again.

Barbara putting the brakes while Dick chases after her is a theme in their relationship, and a narrative that makes a lot of sense character-wise: they’re both extremely independent but Barbara’s a control freak & her handicap was a significant obstacle to overcome before she could consider getting serious with Dick, who plays his part in supporting her during that period of adaptation. Birds of Prey #8 is the most well-known example.

Barbara learns to let go around him which is just enormous for her. Dick has an ability to make her bring down her walls.

[Nightwing 1996) #38]

And that process? Those not there yet moments? I love it. The blatant flirting, the witty banter, the underlying proximity. So many things that characterize their relationship whether they’re romantically involved or not.

[Nightwing #0.5 || Azrael: Agent of the Bat #60 || Nightwing #20]

((speedo-boy is a totally valid nickname for dick btw))

[Robin (1993) #71]

(Bonus point for making Timmy laugh!)

They share such amazing moments betraying that proximity. It’s a kind of bond that gets to me. I don’t really care in which kind of narrative it occurs, romantic or platonic. It’s the stuff I like to see my favorite characters share with someone. I like dickbabs a lot for that, the fact that they’re a rock and a primordial source of comfort for each other.

[Nightwing #37-38 || Robin #86]

When they actually become an official couple, it feels like the natural consolidation of years-long deep mutual respect, care and trust. They’re just so good for each other; Dick always feels responsible for everyone and everything around him but he can always rely on Barbara, and there are very few people around whom Babs opens up like she does with Dick… or who can convince her to catch a break tbh.

[Joker: Last Laugh #1]

They could’ve been a power couple for years if not for flimsy story lines (*cough* Devin Grayson) or editorial choices (aka the clusterfuck that was Infinite Crisis and the whole wedding thing). In that sense, dickbabs knew as unnatural an end as dickkory did. Which is kind of a shame for both ships tbh, they deserved better.

Luckily (and coherently character-wise), Dick and Barbara’s dynamic doesn’t stop there. They still rely and confide in each other long after it’s established that dickbabs won’t be a thing anymore. Because if their relationship always was a romantic one, it also goes way beyond that.

They’re a lot about potential, with how long it took them to become an official couple and how short that lasted; after which there’s a lot of nostalgia and bittersweet could’ve been. But alongside all that potential lies the very real, tangible care they have for each other and continue to nurture as years go by. I like to think they stayed that one constant part of each other’s life, while the rest of the world shifts, crumbles, rebuilds and changes around them.

[Batgirl (2009) #7]

They’re not friends-> lovers-> break up-> friends, as disconnected steps like fiction sometimes inadvertently schematizes. It feels like every step of their story converge and add up to form that multifaceted, rich and textured dynamic.

So to answer your question, Anon: I love dickbabs. For their rock solid partnership, their witty banter and overall ease around each other, the comfort they find in each other in moments of crisis— and most importantly, I love that they have those things whether they’re romantically involved or not.

[angstandhappiness]

Interesting!

"If you want to continue working with me... with my family... you need to commit. You need to decide in your bones that you're not going to lie down and die."

"You lost sight of the value of Roland Desmond's life. If you need me to forgive you for that, I probably can[...] but[...] you have no right to expect me to excuse you - for losing sight of the value of yours."

Gotham Knights #2 // Nightwing (1996) #117