#both wolsey and henry a papal bull for the annulment

[fideidefenswhore]

The next seventeen letters printed are certainly genuine and were written by Henry during his courtship of Anne. They survive, oddly, in the Vatican library, something that has led to the suggestion that they were stolen from Anne by Cardinal Campeggio: this would account for the fact that his bags were searched when he reached Calais on his return to Rome.

Anne Boleyn: In Her Own Words & the Words of Those Who Knew Her (Norton, Elizabeth)

[katharinepar]

In April of 1528, Pope Clement issued a papal bull giving Cardinal Wolsey the authority to handle the King’s Great Matter in England. He also dispatched the aging and ailing Cardinal Lorenzo Campeggio to England to look into the claims. However, the Pope had instructed the Cardinal to delay any decision as long as he could so as not to offend the Queen’s nephew, the Emperor. Campeggio’s journey took many months. A Legatine Court was finally convened in June of 1529 to hear the arguments regarding Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon’s annulment.

Both the King and Queen were in attendance on that day in June 21. Although the chronicles make it difficult to know the exact sequence of events, it appears that Henry made his arguments first. It was then Catherine’s turn to speak. She threw herself onto her knees before the king to speak directly with Henry, while George Cavendish (Wolsey’s gentleman-usher and then biographer) recorded the compelling testimony she made. Once Catherine had finished speaking, “she rose up, making low courtesy to the king, and so departed from thence.” As she turned and left, she ignored the calls to return to court.

[mihrunnisasultans]

Not the spanish princess making me, an Irish history nerd who dislikes henry Viii, pity henry viii 👁️👄👁️

Frost can always do the unbelievable, right? Like I’m sure that in that time period Henry still cared about his appearance to create positive image on the ladies and whole kingdom, not that of a dishevelled lunatic that is incapable of doing anything than having sex and throwing fits actually.

However, I don’t feel sorry (and I can bet neither you Anon) when he keeps crying and complaining how CoA the wanton whore cast him in Hell and made him a sinner. Frost legit made him believe in what he said because he’d lost his mind and I’m here sitting like what does she want to achieve by that? Maybe not to make him sympathetic, but IDK preserve her “grand love story” - Henry loved Catherine, but then he lost his mind after Francis beat him up & I suppose also Wolsey made use of poor Henry for his schemes (replace beating up with joust and Wolsey with Cromwell and we get a too-well-known narrative spread in some circles. Henry was okay until he got hit in the head and targeted Anne).

EF did not even make him hot and made him absolutely unshippable and yet some people still ship Anne x Henry in TSP when we see him clearly abusing his wife both physically and mentally at the same time? And what if she lied, Henry lied too about having slept with Juana, and CoA was actually informed by her father about this and warned about marrying this man based on that. Catherine simply decided that Juana was lying on purpose to destroy her life. It’s weird how this lie was not mentioned again, of course not by Henry because he’s a self-righteous hypocrite, but by CoA herself, or reminded in any flashback? And NGL even this Anne does not look happy to me to be told by her Dad to court this pig, she has to smile and laugh in front of him, but I don’t see her happy at the prospect at all... There is this idea here that Thomas Boleyn is doing everything to keep his family safe precisely because he knows about Henry’s “humours” and it’s not only ambition, but also fear that makes them want to be in the king’s favour. Same with Maggie. He is so visibly crazy everyone just ass kisses him out of fear. It’s... actually really sad? Like I can’t comprehend how people can ship it, especially in TSP, sorry. 

Despite Frost’s boyfriend’s comments how “witch” Anne destroyed CoA’s happiness with Henry, there was nothing of this in the show because it was clear all the marital mess had nothing to do with Anne. He turned vile before  becoming interested in Anne and yet people still want this gross man, who treats his wife so abominably, for their fave??? I feel sorry for her because she clearly feels obligated to please this asshole for her family’s sake, and if anything we should have all prayed CoA actually killed him in this crazy show when she got the chance and did herself and Anne a favour lol.

CoA was also Henry VIII’s victim and some people (who mostly care about their ship, not fans of AB in general) gloss over the fact that this man dragged through the mud a woman who was a good queen and wife for so many years, conspired behind her back with Great Matter, made a huge drama around her virginity, divulged private information about her and his brother’s private (intimate) lives, humiliated her multiple times, spread rumours about her being “diseased” and being of doubtful reputation etc. etc. and only wake up when he begins to use similar tactics to the other half of their ship (and yes it ended differenly simply because he could not just execute a woman with such powerful connections in Europe). But he got hit in the head and evil Cromwell appeared, I forgot. Poor Henry truly believed in his accusations against Anne and suffered until the end of his days  😭 😭 😭.

IDK some people behave like he just came and politely asked her for a divorce so that he might sire a son with another woman and she simply refused him out of sheer spite because she didn’t want him happy with another. And I won’t even mention people who apparently believe falling out of love with your spouse was enough for divorce in 16th century and I’ve seen takes based on that as well.

And sorry, but I do believe he was well aware of CoA’s virginity or lack thereof when they married and it simply never bothered him until he decided to use this to make himself 100% right and the wronged party in divorce proceedings. He was historically sly enough to do so, unlike his show counterpart. The dispensation definitely covered for such possibility and the English were the party that wanted to have that assurance:

Both sides agreed that a papal dispensation was needed. The couple had become, at least in theory, related in the first degree of affinity when Catherine married Arthur. The issue of Catherine’s sex life raised its head again for, if she had stayed a virgin, there was no real affinity. The marriage treaty  explicitly states that a dispensation was required because ‘her marriage to Prince Arthur was solemnised according to the rites of the Catholic Church and afterwards consummated’. Two months later, however, Ferdinand was telling his ambassador at the Vatican, who had orders to seek the dispensation, that it was all a lie. ‘The truth is that the marriage was not consummated and that the princess our daughter remained as whole as she was before she married,’ he wrote. ‘Even though this is true and known to be so where she is, the mad English ... [believe] that the dispensation should say that the marriage was consummated.’ This, he explained with startling prescience, was ‘in order to get rid of any future doubt over the [rights of] succession of the children that, God willing, will be born of this new matrimony’. The English, he meant, wanted the pope to state clearly he had taken into account the idea of consummation with Arthur when giving Catherine a dispensation to marry and have legitimate children with Henry. Popes in the sixteenth century were, however, smooth political operators. Julius II knew how to hedge his bets. The dispensation he eventually sent to England stated that the marriage had ‘perhaps’ been consummated. That single word meant the matter would be argued over for centuries.

Taken from: Giles Tremlett, Catherine of Aragon: Henry’s Spanish Queen 

Moreover Isabella of Castile asked to make the case even clearer:

Henry and his council, meanwhile, became increasingly obsessed by the brief – a copy of which had already been presented in Rome. Henry’s representative there, Gregorio Casale, confirmed that it seemed to close any loopholes left by the original bull. It widened the reasons Julius gave for allowing her to marry Henry, adding to the primary cause of fostering peace the words ‘certain other reasons’. As these last reasons were not explicit, they were impossible to argue against – even if, confusingly, the document also stated that she and Arthur had consummated their marriage.

Taken from: Giles Tremlett, Catherine of Aragon: Henry’s Spanish Queen

Even if we assume Henry wanted to contest the validity of actual papal dispensation & papal authority and just stick to Scripture literally:

In both cases, after all, ‘carnal knowledge’ existed. Henry was also worried. In this respect extramarital sex was, indeed, legally considered as important as marriage itself. It meant that Anne was related to Henry ‘by affinity’. Henry’s ambassadors in Rome, then, were given a double task. Not only did he want his and Catherine’s marriage annulled, he also needed to clear the way for her rival. That would require a papal dispensation allowing him to marry Anne, despite his previous sexual relationship with her sister. The dispensation, it was suggested, should allow him to marry a woman who might ‘be related ... in the first degree of affinity, arising from whatever licit or illicit intercourse’. The double standard was remarkable. On the one hand the pope was being told it had been wrong for Catherine to win a dispensation to marry her former husband’s brother. On the other hand, he was being asked to write a dispensation for Henry to marry his former lover’s sister.

Taken from: Giles Tremlett, Catherine of Aragon: Henry’s Spanish Queen