#being fan fic isn't a bad thing! I am not insulting them by calling them that!

[acewizardinspace]

Star Wars makes more sense if you think of Legends continuity and Disney continuity as AU fanfictions of Lucus' canon.

[that-left-turn]

The richonne fans actually have lead the discussion on racism in the fandom and we pretend we don’t see it or reply with snark because we don’t really care. I am a vocal caryler on twitter who speaks against it and if you were there you would see that. We get drowned out by the others. There’s not a lot of us who speak against it over there. But it’s easier to ignore it to whine about not getting canon from simple gimple and Zabel. I found you because of your fic. That’s where I get my fix because we will never get it from those men. But that doesn’t mean the bad behavior in our fandom should be ignored. Sad.

I have no idea what Richonne fans do or not, apart from the people in my asks who tell me to stfu and add colorful insults to make their point. Educating people on why something is hurtful and how institutionalized prejudice works is a good thing. Calling each other names, not so much. Most people aren't taught about racism in school, just that "racism=bad" which isn't all that helpful in itself. That said, I don't think it's a competition between taking a stand against racism or misogyny. They go hand in hand more often than not and I'm capable of being angry about both injustices at once. I do "whine" about both things.

It's a mistake to think of Gimple as "simple." He's not a competent showrunner or studio exec, his writing is bad and he's an unpleasant person, but he's shrewd. He's been molding the franchise into reflecting his personal preferences for years, to the detriment of the shows and those who've worked on them. He has certain criteria for the people he hires and the ones who've predated his power of influence, he's done his best to shove out.

Getting canon is important. It's representation for middle-aged relationships which we get precious little of on TV. The 'older' couples we see are mostly supporting cast, there to be a foil for the problems the protagonist has; they're not the focal point of the show. Caryl are from a poor white background (Carol's grandma made her clothes and Daryl grew up in a shack/cabin) and the depiction of that social class is always dysfunctional and often criminal. That needs to change too and it could, if Caryl lead the way.

DA survivors finding love and being able to trust is also, again, something that deserves a spotlight. Abuse is shameful and humiliating, and debilitating. People who go through that in real life need the hope that Caryl can provide. They live in a very violent world, but they've found something good in each other, and the fans who have gone through similar experiences can also find the inner strength that these two characters have.

Story integrity. Audience respect. Discussion on the bad behavior of the men in charge of TWDU is important. I will always talk about racism (even if I lose followers and fic readers over it) and I will also always talk about misogyny and sexism. I know I haven't really gotten into ageism, but that's because my topics have largely been decided by "what's in my inbox." (Feel free to drop an ask. I'd love the opportunity to talk about 'fun things' too 🙃)

All these issues are the evil siblings of the fandom and the franchise. One isn't more pressing than the other and that's the reason why different factions shouldn't turn on each other. We need to lift each other up, as well as the characters and the women who play them. We won't get ahead by tearing each other down and that's why I try to focus on providing information rather than being angry at individuals who may behave badly.

When I was a kid, my mom always told me why she wanted me to do this or not do that, and it stuck with me, because she showed me respect as an individual of my own, even if I was a 5-year old. People are more likely to listen if you don't speak in anger, if you afford them their dignity and you're not authoritarian... and I haven't walked in anyone else's shoes. I don't know what they're going through, so I try to give the benefit of doubt as to people's motives for what they do/say. I'm not ignoring bad behavior. I try to counter it in my posts, even if I have minimal outreach. Change starts at grassroots level, you know? "Be like water making its way through cracks."

Thanks for reading my fic 🙏😊 I really appreciate that. I've been rewatching S11, so I can get back into writing Stick Figures, but it's not a season that makes you excited about its storytelling. Double edged sword since I need the little details as tie-ins to my 'red thread' arc.

[vivithefolle]

Honestly, I didn't think of Ron bashing in this context since these fics always portray him as a completely out of character type of mean.

I mean, fair, and I am very wary of anything that could be construed as bashing when it comes to Ron. But fandom has long been used to declaring Ron "a jerk", even while they praise him. The number of times I've had someone say "I love Ron, even though he can be mean" as if Ron's meanness is so overwhelming we should apologize for liking him... meanwhile the first "heroic" thing Hermione does is choose violence and set someone on fire but that's just "queen" behaviour apparently.

(and he makes attempts to curse Malfoy, for example, it's not that he never follows through)

Oh yes, he does, and the number of times he tries to punch him only to be restrained by his friends requires multiple hands to count; it's just that Ron won't go overboard. He has a hard limit. Harry has canonically succeeded in using Crucio and Hermione has, as you pointed out, the Marietta stuff and some more; I'd say Ron is more of a "talk shit get hit" knee-jerk guy while Harry and Hermione can be much more calculating - and Hermione is the only one we saw who calculatedly attacked a friend (multiple times even, as she did curse Neville in PS, long before the canaries).

Hermione takes a bit longer in DH, but forgiveness comes pretty quickly to her, too.

Eeeeehhh not really? It might be due to her romantic feelings for Ron but she is quite harsh on him. It takes him almost dying of poison to forgive him in HBP after she iced him out for months, and in DH she gets distracted by Harry becoming obsessed by the Elder Wand. Even after Malfoy Manor, when it's pretty clear she's forgiven Ron after yet realizing their mortality, she's still quick to get on her high horse and act precious when he suggests double-crossing Griphook before he can double-cross them.

Like, Golden Trio fans sometimes like to paint their friendship as just that: "golden," but that's not what their friendship is.

Heh, that's pretty much how I see it too but to me, there's a clear pecking order: Harry is above it all, due to being "the guy whose name is on the cover". Hermione is nearly on Harry's level and sometimes above him, especially with how much the narrative tends to coddle her and excuse her worse actions (and even when it doesn't: Rowling specifically mentions Hermione saying "you've got the emotional range of a teaspoon" "nastily", yet how many cutesy Romione edits do we have treating this line as a harmless funny quip when the text itself pointed out it was an insult?). The one who isn't given any breaks, who always has to bear the full force of the blame and doesn't get to deflect his behaviour because he is the deflection for the Hs to look "not as bad as he is", it's Ron. In the food chain of the Golden Trio, Ron is at the very bottom and when he dares try to stand as an equal to the other two, he's quickly slapped down and told he's immature for daring to want better from the people supposed to be his friends.

Ron starts a lot of the fights the three have because he is taken for granted by his friends and there's only so long one can go being called "immature" and "stupid" for completely innocuous things without going apeshit. His fight with Harry in GOF is due to Harry not being honest with him and Ron picking up on that; in DH Harry's incompetence as their leader and his dismissal of Ron's fears prompts Ron's outrage at Harry's seeming indifference to all the sacrifices and help the Weasley family made for him - something that would doubly hurt Ron as we saw his mother treat Harry better than her own children, which would hurt Ron who already feels neglected but he'd be able to bear it as long as he sees Harry enjoy a "normal" childhood. For Harry to reduce Ron's problems on the Horcrux Hunt as "mama not here to feed you", that's fucking low and I don't blame Ron for blowing a fuse.

Anyway, that is my own view of their friendship. Ron is the biggest loser here, contrary to what most of fandom seems to think because they assume he profits from Harry's status and fame - lolwut when does it ever happen in the book that Ron gets recognition based on knowing Harry? Harry uses his authority as Quidditch captain to keep Ron on the team in HBP, but no student or teacher gives Ron any kind of special treatment based on his closeness to Harry. Hermione also gets taken for granted by Harry a lot, but given how often Rowling uses her to dispense punishments to bad guys or solutions to a problem it's difficult for the reader to forget about her importance.

I definitely don't think the Golden Trio's friendship is one of equals, not as it is written in the books. There's too much dumping on Ron and dismissing his issues as "ugh when is he gonna get over it" for me to believe it's all good and well. They're all pretty damaged, even without Voldemort hanging over them, and sadly as the "quiet kid" of his family, Ron is a little more used to not rowing the boat, only taking a stand for himself when he's really feeling betrayed (Scabbers, GOF, HBP and DH) but every single time he ends having to say he was wrong even when he wasn't (Hermione may be the one apologizing in POA, but Hagrid first came along saying it was bad of Ron to prioritize his pet over his friend... but Hermione prioritizing her pet over Ron's boundaries and feelings was perfectly ok of course).

Bleh. Anyway. That's my own view and opinion of things, colored by my own experience of life and fandom.

We don't talk enough about Ron's mean streak

Like, I saw a lot of people talk about how funny Ron is (which is true, he's genuinely one of the funnier characters in the series), how loyal he is when it counts, he's brave as hell, and he is really smart, just not book smart. But what I don't see talked about enough (maybe it's just me though), is Ron Weasley's mean streak.

I talked about how Harry most definitely has what it takes to be a Slytherin, can be scary, and is willing to kill when push comes to shove. I also mentioned Hermione's ruthlessness, but I didn't discuss Ron's mean streak which is a joy when I see it crop up in the book. When it comes up, it always reminds me of the twins, and I feel like that's where Ron got it from.

So I'm just going to bring up a few quotes I had in my notes showing Ron's mean streak, I'm sure I missed some from the earlier books, but I find it a fun aspect of his character.

Snape cried: “Expelliarmus!” There was a dazzling flash of scarlet light and Lockhart was blasted off his feet: He flew backward off the stage, smashed into the wall, and slid down it to sprawl on the floor. Malfoy and some of the other Slytherins cheered. Hermione was dancing on tiptoes. “Do you think he’s all right?” she squealed through her fingers. “Who cares?” said Harry and Ron together.

(CoS, 178)

This type of reaction is seen with Ron pretty often. He really doesn't care when someone he dislikes is hurt or injured and he is very vocal about it. He and Harry kinda share this trait, as seen above.

Later in the other quotes I bring up, I show that Hermione is the one usually playing morality police for Ron and Harry even if she herself isn't as innocent as she likes to act.

He raised Ron’s Spellotaped wand high over his head and yelled, “Obliviate!” The wand exploded with the force of a small bomb. Harry flung his arms over his head and ran, slipping over the coils of snake skin, out of the way of great chunks of tunnel ceiling that were thundering to the floor. Next moment, he was standing alone, gazing at a solid wall of broken rock. “Ron!” he shouted. “Are you okay? Ron!” “I’m here!” came Ron’s muffled voice from behind the rockfall. “I’m okay — this git’s not, though — he got blasted by the wand —” There was a dull thud and a loud “ow!” It sounded as though Ron had just kicked Lockhart in the shins.

(CoS, 280)

I love this, Lockhart explodes the cave, obliviates himself, and Ron's reaction is to kick him in the shins. I don't know, I just find it hilarious.

“Don’t talk to me,” Ron said quietly to Harry and Hermione as they sat down at the Gryffindor table a few minutes later, surrounded by excited talk on all sides about what had just happened. “Why not?” said Hermione in surprise. “Because I want to fix that in my memory forever,” said Ron, his eyes closed and an uplifted expression on his face. “Draco Malfoy, the amazing bouncing ferret . . .” Harry and Hermione both laughed, and Hermione began doling beef casserole onto each of their plates. “He could have really hurt Malfoy, though,” she said. “It was good, really, that Professor McGonagall stopped it —” “Hermione!” said Ron furiously, his eyes snapping open again, “you’re ruining the best moment of my life!”

(GoF, 207)

Here you see Hermione the morality police crop up, but I'm talking about Ron here.

Hermione is definitely right in that Draco could've been seriously hurt, but Ron is just glad he saw Malfoy suffering. Actually, in the scene before it, Ron was the one who wanted to curse Malfoy and was held back by Harry and Hermione (as well as in the eat slugs situation in CoS), like, with as much as Harry calls Draco his nemesis, it really feels like Ron is the one that hates Draco and thinks of him as his nemesis.

“She’s an awful woman [Umbridge],” said Hermione in a small voice. “Awful. You know, I was just saying to Ron when you came in . . . we’ve got to do something about her.” “I suggested poison,” said Ron grimly.

(OotP, 324)

I love you, Ron.

This is one of my favorite quotes for him. Hermione shuts down the poison idea, but I think they should've given it a shot, I think it could've been fun.

It would've been cathartic for them at least.

“You take Remedial Potions?” asked Zacharias Smith superciliously, having cornered Harry in the entrance hall after lunch. “Good Lord, you must be terrible, Snape doesn’t usually give extra lessons, does he?” As Smith strode away in an annoyingly buoyant fashion, Ron glared after him. “Shall I jinx him? I can still get him from here,” he said, raising his wand and taking aim between Smith’s shoulder blades. “Forget it,” said Harry dismally. “It’s what everyone’s going to think, isn’t it? That I’m really stup —”

(OotP, 528)

I love how Ron always has Harry's back and is ready to fight anyone (including Sirius who he thought was a mass murderer when he was 13 with a broken leg) for Harry's sake. It's a real vibe the Golden Trio has that they're just ready to drop everything and curse out anyone for each other's sake. They are just so protective of each other and I love this for them, how they are all just each other's people, yk.

It's also another example of how Ron is the one of the trio that offers violence as the answer the most often.

“Reparo!” said Hermione quickly, mending Ron’s cup with a wave of her wand. “That’s all very well, but what if Montague’s permanently injured?” “Who cares?” said Ron irritably, while his teacup stood drunkenly again, trembling violently at the knees. “Montague shouldn’t have tried to take all those points from Gryffindor, should he? If you want to worry about anyone, Hermione, worry about me!”

(OotP, 679)

Again Ron doesn't care for the injury of people who he considers deserving.

“Madam Pomfrey says she’s just in shock,” whispered Hermione. “Sulking, more like,” said Ginny. “Yeah, she shows signs of life if you do this,” said Ron, and with his tongue he made soft clip-clopping noises. Umbridge sat bolt upright, looking wildly around.

(OotP, 849)

Like, regardless of whether Umbridge was SAed or not (for the record, I don't think she was) it's not a nice thing to do. Umbridge is awful, but this is Ron literally spreading salt on the wound. but like I mentioned above, she's in the "deserving it" category.

“will you stop pretending to be asleep when Lavender comes to see you? She’s driving me mad as well.” “Oh,” said Ron, looking sheepish. “Yeah. All right.” “If you don’t want to go out with her anymore, just tell her,” said Harry.

(HBP, 411)

That is honestly so mean. Like, I'm not Lavender's biggest fan, I find her annoying, but she's a teenage girl in her maybe first relationship and she did nothing really wrong. I feel truly sorry for her for how Ron treated her, it wasn't really her fault. It's just mean that he pretends to sleep instead of talking to her.

“Same as he wanted at Christmas,” shrugged Harry. “Wanted me to give him inside information on Dumbledore and be the Ministry’s new poster boy.” Ron seemed to struggle with himself for a moment, then he said loudly to Hermione, “Look, let me go back and hit Percy!” “No,” she said firmly, grabbing his arm. “It’ll make me feel better!”

(HBP, 650)

Like, this is peak sibling behavior, but as I mentioned earlier, Ron tends to want to resort to violence more often than Harry and Hermione do (especially in the earlier books, as Harry does grow angrier after Sirius' death). He is usually the one to bring violence up, and I find it an interesting aspect of his character.

And Ron is correct in the fact hitting Percy would make him feel better. Not saying if it's the right thing to do, but Ron really would experience it as satisfying because Percy would deserve it in his mind.

“What are we going to do with them?” Ron whispered to Harry through the dark; then, even more quietly, “Kill them? They’d kill us. They had a good go just now.” Hermione shuddered and took a step backward. Harry shook his head.

(DH, 167)

As I mentioned in one of the Harry posts, Harry is calling the shots, but Ron is the one who offered to kill the Death Eaters. He put that idea on the table. He was relieved when Harry said they shouldn't kill them, but if Harry said it'd be better if they killed them — Ron would've backed him up and done it, while Hermione might've preferred to pretend it wasn't happening.

“That treacherous old bleeder.” Ron panted, emerging from beneath the Invisibility Cloak and throwing it to Harry. “Hermione you’re a genius, a total genius. I can’t believe we got out of that.” “Cave Inimicum. . . Didn’t I say it was an Erumpent horn, didn’t I tell him? And now his house has been blown apart!” “Serves him right,” said Ron, examining his torn jeans and the cuts to his legs, “What’d you reckon they’ll do to him?” “Oh I hope they don’t kill him!” groaned Hermione, “That’s why I wanted the Death Eaters to get a glimpse of Harry before we left, so they knew Xenophilius hadn’t been lying!”

(DH, 424)

Again, Ron not caring/enjoying when people who deserve it suffer. Xenophilius wanted to help them, he tried to persuade them not to come into his home at first so he wouldn't give them in, he tried so hard even though the Death Eaters had his daughter! Harry rightly feels bad for Xenophilius and Luna, it's easy to understand why he did what he did.

Hermione and Harry hope he is fine, but Ron is the one who thinks he has it coming. That he deserves to have his house blown up for betraying them, regardless of his reasoning.

I think Ron is the most black-and-white in his thoughts about people among the trio. There are those who deserve anything that comes to them and those who don't. Specific circumstances and context don't really play a part in what bad people deserve coming to them.

I don't know, I just find this interesting.

Harry has the compassion to understand people, even ones who harmed him or the people he cares about, he is capable of forgiving Voldemort and never really hated Draco.

Hermione is pretty black-and-white in her view of people, having the people she trusts and those she doesn't. She trusts Snape because he's an authority figure trusted by Dumbledore (and Hermione is the one who is truly Dumbledore's woman true and true in the books). Her view on people has less to do with their actions, but who they are endorsed by. She is compassionate to Xenophilius because he's Luna's dad, and Luna is good, therefore, she wouldn't love someone who is bad.

Ron is black-and-white in how he sees people in a very different way than Hermione. He looks at actions, and if you do anything to try and harm him or people he cares about, you get on the shit list. Getting out of Ron's shit list is probably not easy, he doesn't strike me as one who forgives easily and readily the way Harry does, but he does forgive. Like actions can get you on his shit list, actions can get you out. But once a person is on the shit list, they deserve any harm that comes their way.

But Ron is really loyal, and there are people he loves who are basically immune from going on the shit list (like his family, yes, even Percy. While he wants to hit him, I don't believe Ron ever really wished death on Percy). And there is just something interesting about Ron, with his mean streak and everything, being the glue that holds the trio together. Like, in Deathly Hallows once he leaves, Harry and Hermione barely talk to each other, they are barely friends without Ron there.

I don't know, I just love Ron. I love how he is loyal, and friendship glue, but has just as much of a mean streak to him as Harry and Hermione can pull. I just feel like he's sometimes left out of the discussion of how ruthless Harry and Hermione could be. Like, it's true, both of them can be ruthless, but don't leave Ron out. He can be ruthless and actually offers violence as a solution more often than Harry or Hermione do.

[achillesmonochrome]

Thank you, is okay if you don't feel up to it, I talk a lot and these conversations are very taxing, specially if you were frustrated enough to be venting.

I will be bringing your entire post, because even if it is going to be a lot of "Yup, I agree" without adding much to it, I want to be clear that I am hearing all your points; focusing only on the things that I don't agree would make this shorter, but I feel it would be the illusion of only wanting to fight and ignoring your valid criticism, and that's not what I want to do.

To preface this, I do align myself with the dead dove do not eat community and write what you want. I know technically it would make me a proshipper, but I do have a lot of issues with how proshippers handle race related stuff in fandoms and how some ignorance make spaces unwelcoming for people of color.

Completely reasonable, to be honest even if you didn’t have problems with the community is okay if you don’t want to take the label or be part of it. I know some people who prefer to call themselves anti-censorship.

While I don’t think proshippers are anywhere near comparable to antishippers and their behaviors, I do think proshippers have the potential of creating their own echo chambers and being extreme in an “Us vs Them” they critique antishippers of doing.

Yup, I had seen similar issues as well; especially on twitter, but here on tumblr as well.

One example is anyone have a discomfort to certain ships, tropes, or trigger warnings, which is FINE. Not everyone is comfortable with dead dove and I understand that. I understand that my works aren’t for everyone and I do my best to tag triggers and warn people before reading my works. I also have my own squicks when it comes to fiction, but I don’t harass anyone over it. For the extreme proshippers, some act if you have any discomfort and simply voice is (not everyone attacking anyone and looking down on others who enjoy it) you are labeled an anti. Or if you state not liking it, all of sudden, you should keep your opinions to yourself despite wanting people to have the freedom of how they can enjoy media.

I feel a lot of proshippers had been burned so badly by antis that they react at the slightest provocation; that is the explanation not an excuse. Having bad experiences doesn't mean they aren't taking an extreme that is unreasonable and also, ironically betrays the idea of "don't like don't read" which is something many proshippers wish it was back.

I feel the ideal course of action is to have tags for criticism. I had been on the critic side of fandom in many fandoms, and I understand why people would be frustrated about wanting to find some fan content of their favourite show, just to see someone who is insulting it.

I imagine when you say criticism, you didn't mean the group of people who are hate watching and drawing the wildest accusations out of the story show in screen; but again, as someone who has been part of critical communities, I had seen a lot of people who have absolute vitriol for the source material.

This also goes into seeing anyone who have those discomforts as “sensitive” and not practicing basic decency of tagging your works as dead dove.

Now here is the part where I am actually in disagreement. Because the thing is...what is a Dead Dove fic?

Dead Dove is a complicated tag because like many other things, there isn't an exact definition; there is official place that says "Dead Dove means it has one of the following topics."

Heck, there are people who view things different regarding the tag. Some people use the tag to mean "Take the tags seriously, it has everything it says on the tin," meaning the content doesn't have to be necessarily dark, but mean "DO NOT SCREAM AT ME FOR FINDING THE CONTENT THAT IT IS TAGGED AT!"

I am a person who likes to tag warnings, because I want people to know what they are getting into before going in, but I know people who feel that's spoiling things; and I cannot in good conscience say I think those people are in the wrong.

Trigger warnings are a recently new development, for the longest time the closest thing to trigger warnings was Age Rating, "Works labelled # can contain A, B and-" key word, contain. A lot of people grew up in a completely different sphere and feel the age rating should be enough, and that's their opinion.

Also, since you are a Media Studies Major, I feel I also need to bring this up: It is not conclusive that Trigger Warnings are actually helpful.

I feel a lot of people don't use trigger warning correctly (Trigger warnings should be treated as Allergy Warnings: the person affected shouldn't interact with the material, giving a warning does jackshit.)

But a part of this study that caught my attention was how the trigger warnings don't deter people enough. This is actually a problem of Humanity; people who manage Nuclear Waste are constantly trying to find ways to say people "THIS AREA IS DANGEROUS" without making it look exciting for risk taking people.

We can argue that if you are stupid enough to get into Nuclear Waste, then maybe you deserve it; but if the thing designed to make people reconsider not to do the dangerous thing actually doesn't work, can we say is doing its job?

A lot of proshippers equate any criticism of fiction as anti rhetoric even though criticism of fiction will always exist.

That is true, and is frustrating as fuck to deal with those people.

Sure, some criticism are hated disguised in it, but in terms of general discussion of published media and problematic issues in it, that has ALWAYS existed. Media studies, feminism media studies, etc. have existed longer than the stupid antiship vs proship discourse in fandoms. Someone pointing out problematic things in a media isn’t immediately anti rhetoric because published media hold a different responsibility to their audience than fanfic writers. Fanfiction is no where near as far reaching as published media that has the potential of reaching millions of people. That’s why when antis bring up “fictional can affect reality,” I don’t believe fanfiction can do that because its a very niche thing that most people interacting with it knows better. Published media has a different responsibility, thats why ratings exists, and the FTC is a thing in the US.  

I do agree with all your points here.

And criticism isn’t bad! I get a lot of proshippers are hyper vigilant due to harassment in the past, but some of you go extreme on this opinion that any criticism is bad and that it doesn’t belong in fandoms.

Again, completely agree, I had been on the opposing side of those conversations and that hasn't been fun.

You’re not oppressed or being censored if your fanworks are being criticized. It’s still posted on AO3 and it will only be taken down if you wish it too. It’s like celebrities crying about cancel culture when it’s just online backlash that has no effect on the real world whatsoever. Some of y’all sound like anti woke cancel culture right winger when you complain about supposed “internet warriors” taking your right to create away. They’re not! Let’s not act like antishippers have any power to ever bring censorship laws, only politicians who don’t even know fanfiction exists.

I do disagree with you in here, and to be honest with you this is the biggest pet peeve I have.

To be honest this comment is mostly regarding general criticism rather than talking about problematic aspects on a story.

My biggest problem with people who bring unsolicited criticism on a fanwork, is that you don't have the context of what the person is intending with what they are writing.

Let me put myself as an example. My writing is extremely self-indulgent; I write fluffy scenes to soothe me when I am in a bad mood and I want to see the characters being able to enjoy themselves and make me feel better that way; I have a lot of scenes that is basically me venting my anger against capitalism, against a society that has told me what I am is wrong.

My story could be better if I cut out the fluff scene that don't really add much to the story, if I took down all the paragraphs that are deep explorations of the character psyche's but could be more precise and concise.

But I am not trying to make a professional work, I am writing to work out my inner issues and to cheer myself up; so even if I could make a story more concise, direct and less meandering, it would completely defeat the purpose of its existence.

Fanworks to me had always been like playing with dolls in a more advanced form; so going up to somebody and saying "you are playing wrong" is...I will assume in your childhood you saw how something like that played out.

The second reason why I think unsolicited criticism is a bad idea, is actually regarding your own mental health: You are draining yourself on a conversation with someone who didn't want that conversation on the first place.

This is why I feel if you want to share criticism, is better to ask first; having a conversation with someone who doesn't want to hear is tiresome, frustrating and annoying for all parties.

Even if your criticism is truthful, concise and respectful; if the person doesn't want to hear you, you just wasted your time and maybe yourself angry. It doesn't matter if you are right or not, no one likes it when someone goes to another person and says "You need to listen to what I have to say."

Which is why I asked you before coming at you in the first place; recognizing that your feelings are valid and making sure we are on the same page on this conversation leads to a much more easier discussion that simply being like "well I don't agree-"

Now this moves on the topic of racism in fandoms. This is where the problematic term of “fandom policing” comes up when half of the time its people of color, queer people, or women discussing how bigotry is rampant in fanbases. Look at the Star Wars fandom, any time a white character is race bent, video games, that exists. Which makes it frustrating that some proshippers treat these discussion as fandom policing or anti rhetoric. It’s not. I have had instances of proshippers trying to excuse racism that happens in fanbases as if I am misinterpreting it or its not racist because the fans have other reasons why they’re ranting about this media. I was also told by one proshipper because they, who is white, that they never encountered racism in the Star Wars fandom even though that shit had started with the first teaser trailer of the Force Awakens. Or they try to make it seems that the angry Star Wars fans who are mad about a black stormtropper existing is NOT racism, but because of established lore not being held up by Disney. (Which, none of the movies have explicitly said stormtroopers are white and ugh).

Now to this? You are right, you are completely in the right; and I am extremely sorry that you and other fans of colour need to deal with the bullshit of white people who care more about being uncomfortable that making fans of colour feel safe in these spaces.

Full disclosure, I am white; feel free to tell me if something I said was racist or out of line; or just block me if you feel you don't want to deal with the hassle.

I feel most white people (and I said most because I feel including activist like Robin diAngelo would be absurd,) only know about racism in media in the most surface level possible. And many of them refuse to learn more about it, or only do the easier and preformative things when is convenient.

Fans of colour were saying for years how racist Harry Potter was, and yet most of the fandom didn't give a shit until JKR showed her true colours (or let me blunt, starting stirring shit with a topic that include white people.)

I feel this is a bigger problem that the tags or the criticism. If a story in ao3 has the tag "Choose Not To Use Archive Warnings" that means you need to proceed at your own risk. If a story focused more on the characters being cute that having a cohesive story, is better to just close the tag and talk to a friend of how pointless the fic was.

But fans of colour can't escape racism, they can't even ask people to tag it because 99% of the time the person would care more about being "called a bad person" that to make sure fans of colour feel safe.

Criticism of, I don't know, focusing too much on a Oc that the titular characters of the story is meaningless, and would be more frustrated that productive. But I know people who refuses to see racism in Media could be a potential bystander (or worse, a danger,) when people of colour experience racism in real life.

I want to say that for your own sake, you should block people as much as you can, because even people who say that want to be supportive of fans of colour would often whine and refuse to listen when the answer to it is not easy or simple. But saying that would mean saying "you should just create your own bubble while letting these people be a potential harm, while also still having your bubble be broken by random posts with racist undertones" and I am not that stupid.

I imagine you already do all of these, but if any fan other fan of colour is reading this: Do not go to these discussions when you are feeling raw and emotional, is better to go first to a friend who will hear you out and validate your feelings, and then go back when you are feeling emotionally ready for backlash.

Working against racism is an important thing to do, and a good thing to do, but you shouldn't burn out yourself in the process; so prioritize your mental health.

Now on the other hand, if a white person is reading this: If you actually want to work against racism, then stop prioritizing your own comfort and do the goddamn work.

I don't care how uncomfortable, horrified or ashamed you are while doing it, none of those feelings compare to the dehumanization people of colour face by just opening a tab on the internet. If you care more about your white guilt that making people of colour feel safe, then don't come whining when people call you out on your complicit racism.

It’s also ridiculous how white proshipers are allowed the space to vent about being accused of racism by fandom members. I can agree that some accusations are ridiculous, especially ones made by antishippers, but half of it is because white proshippers insert themselves in discussion of racism started by fans of colors and whitesplain to them that it’s not racism and do the same excusal shit that I was met with. I get trying to defend your favorite media, but let people vent. Fans of colors aren’t given the luxury. For some reason, if you complain about racism perpetrated by fans or how the media they like have issues with bigotry, all of sudden its “you bringing politics in fandom spaces” and white proshippers are only using fandoms to “escape reality.” So are fans of color? I would love to use fiction to escape reality, but its hard when racism is rampant in your fandom circles or seeing characters of color being treated poorly in canon. Like cmon. Stop with the double standards. 

You are also completely right on this one too. People of colour aren't allowed to vent their frustrations in peace without the white fans coming to say something because they feel a criticism to their favourite piece of media is somehow a personal attack against them.

I also feel people should have the space to vent, which is why I mentioned the specific tags. However I do admit this is kind of a moot point in regards to criticism of racism because even white critical fans may be like "Umm actually-" because they can't recognize any racism that isn't the most vitriolic and harmful take on it.

The bringing politics into fandom spaces is also absurd considering how every piece of media is political; every piece of media created comes with the biases of their creators and that is going to show one way or another.

Again, I just agree, but it is hypocritical how white fans whine about wanting to escape reality but can't give the same courtesy to fans of colour, because one again: they care more about feeling good about themselves.

It’s annoying how much care that both proshippers and antishippers have when it comes to fiction and fictional characters, but not towards people in real life. Or that racial experiences committed by either side are ignored. Both sides act like they’re oppressed over the most chronically online shit ever. Or that anyone with a differing opinion is immediately label the other side. While proshippers don’t do harassment campaigns or force themselves into anti spaces for the purpose of doxxing, it doesn’t make them automatically safe for everyone, especially for people of color.

Again, you aren't wrong; it is freaking ironic how often proshippers would say they are the side who focused on the feelings of real people but then do stuff like this. They would rather woobify their white villains that acknowledge the antiracist undertones of the stories they like.

Both sides are guilty of turning a blind eye when their side does something wrong; not just with racist incidents. Though I do think racism is the most prominent issue; I am queer and I rarely find hateful sentiments in fandoms in these regard, I had once people sending me hate over being Autistic but is not common.

Racism though? From explicit to tropes with racist undertones; is embarrassing and scary how pervasive it is.

I do, however, had seen harassment campaigns, normally they are phrased saying "block this person/report this person," but then many proshippers had gone ahead and throw insults and hate to the anti.

Even this happens much less than in proshipper fandom, it is indeed not safer.

And please stop with the ageism towards younger people. Not every anti are “puriteens,” I seen a lot of antishippers within the 20-30 age range.

That is something I really need to remember. I often read antis takes think to myself "this is so reductive and small minded- they are probably a teen, at that age you can be hotheaded and talk out of your ass-" just to see that they have their age on their bio, and is someone my age or older.

What I described is infantilizing and a dangerous way to operate, and I doing my best to remember that.

If you read all of this, thank you for your patience, and sorry for how long it is. I know I talk a lot.

some issues I have with the proshipping community as someone sorta align with it.

This ain’t for antishippers so go away.

To preface this, I do align myself with the dead dove do not eat community and write what you want. I know technically it would make me a proshipper, but I do have a lot of issues with how proshippers handle race related stuff in fandoms and how some ignorance make spaces unwelcoming for people of color.

While I don’t think proshippers are anywhere near comparable to antishippers and their behaviors, I do think proshippers have the potential of creating their own echo chambers and being extreme in an “Us vs Them” they critique antishippers of doing.

One example is anyone have a discomfort to certain ships, tropes, or trigger warnings, which is FINE. Not everyone is comfortable with dead dove and I understand that. I understand that my works aren’t for everyone and I do my best to tag triggers and warn people before reading my works. I also have my own squicks when it comes to fiction, but I don’t harass anyone over it. For the extreme proshippers, some act if you have any discomfort and simply voice is (not everyone attacking anyone and looking down on others who enjoy it) you are labeled an anti. Or if you state not liking it, all of sudden, you should keep your opinions to yourself despite wanting people to have the freedom of how they can enjoy media.

This also goes into seeing anyone who have those discomforts as “sensitive” and not practicing basic decency of tagging your works as dead dove. A lot of proshippers equate any criticism of fiction as anti rhetoric even though criticism of fiction will always exist. If you put out art, you will be criticized. Sure, some criticism are hated disguised in it, but in terms of general discussion of published media and problematic issues in it, that has ALWAYS existed. Media studies, feminism media studies, etc. have existed longer than the stupid antiship vs proship discourse in fandoms. Someone pointing out problematic things in a media isn’t immediately anti rhetoric because published media hold a different responsibility to their audience than fanfic writers. Fanfiction is no where near as far reaching as published media that has the potential of reaching millions of people. That’s why when antis bring up “fictional can affect reality,” I don’t believe fanfiction can do that because its a very niche thing that most people interacting with it knows better. Published media has a different responsibility, thats why ratings exists, and the FTC is a thing in the US.  

And criticism isn’t bad! I get a lot of proshippers are hyper vigilant due to harassment in the past, but some of you go extreme on this opinion that any criticism is bad and that it doesn’t belong in fandoms. You’re not oppressed or being censored if your fanworks are being criticized. It’s still posted on AO3 and it will only be taken down if you wish it too. It’s like celebrities crying about cancel culture when it’s just online backlash that has no effect on the real world whatsoever. Some of y’all sound like anti woke cancel culture right winger when you complain about supposed “internet warriors” taking your right to create away. They’re not! Let’s not act like antishippers have any power to ever bring censorship laws, only politicians who don’t even know fanfiction exists.

Now this moves on the topic of racism in fandoms. This is where the problematic term of “fandom policing” comes up when half of the time its people of color, queer people, or women discussing how bigotry is rampant in fanbases. Look at the Star Wars fandom, any time a white character is race bent, video games, that exists. Which makes it frustrating that some proshippers treat these discussion as fandom policing or anti rhetoric. It’s not. I have had instances of proshippers trying to excuse racism that happens in fanbases as if I am misinterpreting it or its not racist because the fans have other reasons why they’re ranting about this media. I was also told by one proshipper because they, who is white, that they never encountered racism in the Star Wars fandom even though that shit had started with the first teaser trailer of the Force Awakens. Or they try to make it seems that the angry Star Wars fans who are mad about a black stormtropper existing is NOT racism, but because of established lore not being held up by Disney. (Which, none of the movies have explicitly said stormtroopers are white and ugh).

It’s also ridiculous how white proshipers are allowed the space to vent about being accused of racism by fandom members. I can agree that some accusations are ridiculous, especially ones made by antishippers, but half of it is because white proshippers insert themselves in discussion of racism started by fans of colors and whitesplain to them that it’s not racism and do the same excusal shit that I was met with. I get trying to defend your favorite media, but let people vent. Fans of colors aren’t given the luxury. For some reason, if you complain about racism perpetrated by fans or how the media they like have issues with bigotry, all of sudden its “you bringing politics in fandom spaces” and white proshippers are only using fandoms to “escape reality.” So are fans of color? I would love to use fiction to escape reality, but its hard when racism is rampant in your fandom circles or seeing characters of color being treated poorly in canon. Like cmon. Stop with the double standards. 

It’s annoying how much care that both proshippers and antishippers have when it comes to fiction and fictional characters, but not towards people in real life. Or that racial experiences committed by either side are ignored. Both sides act like they’re oppressed over the most chronically online shit ever. Or that anyone with a differing opinion is immediately label the other side. While proshippers don’t do harassment campaigns or force themselves into anti spaces for the purpose of doxxing, it doesn’t make them automatically safe for everyone, especially for people of color.

And please stop with the ageism towards younger people. Not every anti are “puriteens,” I seen a lot of antishippers within the 20-30 age range.